The Stooges vs. Black Sabbath

This poll belongs to the Clash.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41KS1CF2K1L._SL500_AA240_.jpg

I think I'll vote Stooges, but..

"Supernaut" vs. _____________ (by the Stooges)?

the more i read of this thread, the more i'm being convinced that my vote lies with sabbath.

listening to the entirety of "paranoid" now, in the gloom of a dreich glasgow morning.

"Supernaut" vs. _____________ (by the Stooges)?

^ OTFM

Stooges hands down ..but then my favourite SAbs album is Sabbath bloody sabbath so what do I know

Stooges. Metal is silly.

lol smearing yrself with peanut butter is SERIOUS BUSINESS

OK, got me. Stooges are silly too.

I think I'm going to give my vote to Sabbath - partly because of the quantity of quality output (at least 4 completely solid, amazing albums, with a smattering of good stuff thereafter), but also partly because they are just better songwriters. Sabbath has a better hit-to-miss ratio, and their methodical, slavish dedication to heavy riffage - only occasionally leavened by folk-psych deviations (which are all a damn sight better than the Stooges' lone attempt at similar on their debut) - is a fantastic marriage of vision and technique. Sure the Stooges are "rawer" or "edgier" or "not as silly" (altho come on Iggy is plenty damn silly) in some ways, but there are fewer highs with the Stooges (2 1/2 great albums) and yes I know they painstakingly assembled "Funhouse" but there just aren't as many tricky little surprises in their catalog as there is with Sabbath. And yeah, Sabbath basically invented a genre - whatever that's worth the same cannot be said of the Stooges.

one could argue that as much as zeppelin + sabbath are the inventors of metal, vu and stooges are the inventors of punk

also

"Supernaut" vs. "1970"

"Supernaut" vs. "1970"

Supernaut in a blowout on par with the latest Kimbo Slice match.

Nice post Shakey

one could argue that as much as zeppelin + sabbath are the inventors of metal, vu and stooges are the inventors of punk

I don't think's punk's lineage is all that er, linear. Punk owes as much to countless Nuggets-style 60s garage bands as anything else (see "Louie Louie") - I think VU's role is often overstated, primarily by those who would like to re-write punk's origins as being exclusive to New York (a la "Please Kill Me"). Whereas with metal you really can narrow it down in a much more direct way - there's the first few guys who took standard rewrites of the blues into heavier territory (Hendrix, Blue Cheer, etc.) and then there are the guys who really wrote the rules for much of what would follow in the subsequent decades (ie, Zep and Sabbath). With punk, things are a lot messier.

Sabs have better songs, better riffs, sure, but the Stooges are like a direct channel into the primeval ooze from which songs and riffs spring. It's like beautiful volcanic mountains versus molten lava.

Still haven't voted. It is like defusing a bomb.

i have voted, and it was for black sabbath.

i know i'll wake up in the middle of the night and think, gah, shoulda voted for the stooges.

but then i'll wake up again in the middle of tomorrow night and think, no, i did the right thing.

"supernaut" vs. "funhouse"

i will play master of reality while reading katherine anne porter's "noon wine" tonight

I did that with Vol. 4 and John Donne's Holy Sonnets earlier.

"Supernaut" vs. "1970"

Supernaut in a blowout on par with the latest Kimbo Slice match.

nah, last 2 minutes of "1970" >>> any two minutes of "supernaut"

not buying it.

Punk owes as much to countless Nuggets-style 60s garage bands as anything else (see "Louie Louie") - I think VU's role is often overstated, primarily by those who would like to re-write punk's origins as being exclusive to New York (a la "Please Kill Me").

I guess I view the VU/stooges influence on punk as narrowly as you view sabbath/zeppelin's on metal. sure, lots of diffuse & disparate things inspired punk bands, and the same could be said of metal.

but between vu and the stooges you've got about 90% of the moves punk bands would pull in situ. just like sabbath/zeppelin provided the template for metal bands that came after them.

I'd reposition this argument to take "influence" out of the equation and say that as earlier practioners of the form vu/stooges embodied the rulebook. you could erase every nuggets band in history and still derive the essentials of punk rock from vu and the stooges. and I mean punk in the broad sense; not just ramones/pistols but television, pere ubu, wire, etc. and I think I've talked about zeppelin being the collective unconscious of rock here before somewhere...

aw c'mon, who waits until the song's almost over for the saxophone to come in? and when it does it's a coltrane clarion call waking archangels to man chariots of the gods as the locked groove of a j.b.'s detroit death machine bears down on them! and I feel alright! I feel alright! I feel alright!

"TV Eye" vs. ??????

i really do not understand either of these bands

or rather their appeal.

but what do i know.

Tough choice, but Stooges. Know what puts them over for me? "LA Blues." Know why?

STEVE MCmotherfuckin'KAY.

Sabbath don't got nothin' nowhere close to him anywhere in their catalog.

"TV Eye" vs. ??????

This is the nubbins of it for me really - Sabbath's riffs seem overwrought in comparison.

And yeah, Sabbath basically invented a genre - whatever that's worth the same cannot be said of the Stooges.

Whoa.. horsey!!

Why does that matter anyway?

It's true, the Stooges aren't as boring as Sabbath

Sabbath are Frankenstein's monster lumbering dementedly through the wastes; the Stooges are all about that one high-voltage shock applied to the rotting cadaver.

this is a real toughie. love them both.

it's possibly easier to intellectually justify a stooges vote, but my gut instinct is to vote for sabbath. the thought of never hearing 'black sabbath', 'supernaut' or 'into the void' ever again is just too painful to countenance.

second, there's no way that the stooges could ever have made anything as weirdly wonderful as 'supertzar'.

on the other hand, 'TV eye' is pretty much unassailable on every level.

ultimately it comes down to feral vs. massive. massive for the win.

Well, as Black Sabbath are shitty heavy metal and The Stooges are just brilliant, I guess it'd have to be the latter. :-)

God Sabbath're dull

Blah blah lumber lumber we're from Birmingham don't blame us

Searing critical insight, guys.

I'd have thought the leader of the doom patrol might feel more of an affinity with sabbath.

The Stooges at least admit the possibility of crisis; Sabbath exist in an unchanging dimension of contant doom. BAH

Sabbath exist in an unchanging dimension of contant doom

you say it like that's a bad thing.

And it's not true. Have you heard Into The Void or Supernaut? Total "set the controls for the heart of the sun" stuff, not depressing at all.

Bit like Gordon Brown

NC the character was into 'crisis' as an agent of change/growth type thing. I think he'd prefer the Stooges, if he had time to do anything as silly as listen to popular music

OK, maybe Sabbath is a class thing - for some people.

How do you work that out?

"we're from Birmingham don't blame us"

What's that got to do with class though? That's more about Birmingham being perceived as a boring shithole.

Well, that's how I read it

Yeah it didn't have anything to do with class. Would've been the same if they'd been from Oxford or Liverpool.

But not Detroit?