POO: Beethoven Symphony

The Choral.

For me personally, it's no contest: the sixth ("Pastoral") is one of my all-time favorite pieces of music. Following that, it would be #3 ("Eroica") because of its power and innovation.

The third. Still can't understand how he produced that after no.2, some kind of demiurgic miracle took place there. Joe uses two of the pertinent words there, also the development in this symphony (obviously one of LVB's primary strengths over the whole cycle) is so astonishing and affecting. The pathos of the second movement, the way it rises and falls to mirror feelings of sublimity and grief, the bareness in its scoring. The whole work is monstrous, a Haydn symphony on steroids
(Results 1 - 10 of about 18,000 for Haydn on steroids. (0.21 seconds)).
The last movement totally catches me off guard as well, and i love that.

Second choice would be no.9, though i only like bits of the choral movement. Great idea, not well executed. Beethoven had this really bad, populist composer inside him which surfaced only occasionally thank god (wellington/battle symphony). But yeh, first three movements, impossible to fuck with.

No. 7

http://www.tinyrevolution.com/mt/archives/002017.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1569860

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

The 9th of course. Second choice would be the 7th. I love that restless string motif.

I choose his score for 'zardoz'

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

I love Mahler & Bruckner & Schubert & Mozart & a whole lotta other composers of symphonies but when you break out the Beethoven it's very, very hard not to cop a "this, and exactly this, is how it's done" attitude. Rocking Nagano/Orchestre Symphonique de Montreal on No. 3 this afternoon and it's just like...everything hangs together so perfectly, and yet airily for the most part, the movement can be so brisk and clear, & the whole construction poses a big challenge to the idea that anything other than fully orchestrated perfection might be a worthwhile goal. Feel like the 20th C's ambiguities & willful complexities are kind of an admission that after Beethoven a certain model has been exhausted to some extent: not that Schubert & Brahms don't do their best but fuckin, Beethoven symphonies everybody

yep.

tho i might even prefer ludwig van's late string quartets to even the best of his symphonies.

sure - I think the late quartets are among the few things in this world that exceed their reputation; people told me, "this may be the greatest music ever written" before I ever heard them, and I thought, sure sure, whatever, but the experience of them is always greater than my expectations

don't know if that's clear, but it's like: people talk such a high game about the late quartets. you figure they can't actually be that good. but then you listen, and you always think: "people undersold me on these, they are greater than I could have imagined."

otm

aero -- what is your favorite recording of the quartets?

actually, can anyone recommend a great recording of all the symphonies? i have a bernstein recording of the fifth and sixth, but i've never really known where to start with the rest.

I have Emerson & Takacs on the late ones and Tokyo on the middle. I don't actually know enough different versions but both Emerson & Takacs are extraordinary. I don't know whose version it was playing over a car stereo when a professor first played them for me but that'll probably always be my favorite because they made me feel like I was drugged or something, I was getting visuals and stuff.

I say Takacs for the late 4tets.

My favorite complete set of the symphonies from the last decade is the recorded-live one conducted by Charles Mackerras, on Hyperion. Since the historically-informed performance movement began to address Beethoven in the 1980s there have been many, many renditions of the Nine with swift tempos and sharp accents. And I like this approach in theory but the result often stints on soulfulness/expressivity for me. The Mackerras/Hyperion set (recorded on modern instruments but influenced by period-instrument performance practice) finally delivers both-- the speed and the soul. It is not the cheapest Beethoven set around, though.

The Vanska/Minnesota Orchestra set on BIS records seems to be the consensus favorite of the recent era, and I think it's great too, but not as great as Mackerras. Vanska somehow makes the Beethoven symphonies sound strange by simply sticking doggedly and literally to the details of the score. The affect is a little flat in these performances sometimes (also a problem with Vanska's renowned Sibelius recordings) but the execution by the Minnesotans and the sound quality are both amazing. These recordings are best listened to in a silent environment though-- the dynamic range is really wide so that the pianissimo passages are really REALLY quiet.

The set conducted by Barenboim on Warner (probably very cheap now) is very recommendable as a modern cycle that consciously calls back to the less frisky, more slab-hewn and flexi-tempo style of 50s and 60s Beethoven conducting by old masters like Furtwangler, Cluytens and Bohm. I always need this kind of LvB recording around, the kind that goes to your gut like dark bread and stew.

Another cheap recent set which I can recommend highly is the live one on the LSO Live label with Haitink conducting. Haitink has made a ton of stolid, dispassionate yet precise recordings over the decades but for whatever reason this live LvB cycle with the LSO awoke his fiery side to great results. This has a lot of the virtues of the Mackerras set though not quite as awesome. Recording quality is a little diffuse and benefits from being cranked, not as good as the three above.

Good post

Jon Lewis, you are amazing. Thanks for the recommendations.

Don't overlook the 8th. More subtle than the odd numbers, but it's a great work. The man himself claimed it was "so much better" than the 7th.

Weird how I've gone my whole life not paying the 9th all that much mind because it seemed "cliched" or something. Big mistake on my part.

only 2 votes for the 5th? stop playin. it's hard to listen to with fresh ears, but it's a tempest.

Yeah that one too.

I have been listening to the finale of the 9th a lot because my daughter discovered it and likes it, and I am hearing it with "fresh ears" now, and wow. It's really easy to dismiss the "few pieces of classical music everyone knows" and forget that there's a reason they're famous. Another one I've been reexamining lately is Mozart's Eine Kleine Nachtmusic -- less the famous first section than the rest of it, and it's totally great.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/10/20/deus-ex-musica

think i'm just gonna herb out for a week or two and listen to beethoven symphonies

dug up the ol kleiber no. 5, haven't listened to it in who knows how long, 10 years maybe

still feels vaguely like watching a cartoon

Even when you go past the first movement?

well you know then it's just, doo doo doo, music music music

i guess even though you feel all (i know, difft) kill-da-wabbit in the first movement, once it's over you're kinda, god damn i wish they would get some more technicolor up in here, some kinda snazzy montage, somethin

the effect is kind of like playing the beginning to 'back in black' over something, or in a quotidian setting or whatever. there's an irredeemable corniness to doing it, being there, reveling in the false swagger of playing a notoriously swaggering record, experiencing the effect of the music and being conscious of the fact that you're doing so with THAT music, but then of course it gets going and it has its effect anyway, which cannot be denied, and you're all fuck yeah, been gone too long, i'm glad to be back, yes i'm

picked up the first two volumes of the bicentennial collection on LP a few weeks ago for a dollar each. I got covid last night so this is what I’ll be doing for the next couple days

what is your favorite recording of the quartets?

I was introduced to the quartets through the complete cycle by the Smetana Quartet on Denon, and this remains my favorite.

The Lindsays also did a credible rendition.

Just listened to Ferenc Fricsay/Berlin Philharmonic 9th with a dream soloist lineup of Fischer-Dieskau/Itmgwrd Seefried etc. if you only have one this should be it

Irmgard

That is one of the best renditions of the 9th imho.

POO in terms of which one I’d throw on right this minute: #8

POO in terms of which one I’d keep if I could only keep one: #3