TAKING SIDES: Steely Dan vs. The Circle Jerks

i love them both

but the circle jerks suck after a while and steely was solid all the way through

circle jerks had three good albums. steely dan had, um, more than that. and circle jerks only had one semi-great album. steely dan had, um, more than that. cirle jerks definitely had a better logo though!

Haha, when I read that description of Steely Dan on Alex in NYC's blog yesterday, I was like OMG AWESOME. He only added the flame-bait descriptors "masturbatory" and "noodly" for this thread, so when I read the blog entry I was like, "Coffee table"? Nice. "Jazz-rock"? Even better. "Patches on the elbows of their corduroy blazers"? That's a sweet look. I've got a corduroy blazer hanging off my chair right now, in fact. "70's wine bar"? I'm there.

I've never heard Circle Jerks, I don't think.

group sex is a fucking jam though, no doubt.

http://s2nblog.files.wordpress.com/2007/06/steelydan.jpg

These guys are begging to be set on fire.

whatever dude. they aint tryin to impress you.

and NOWADAYS id much rather share a spliff with becker and talk music with fagan then have to sit through another fucking keith morris, semi-schitzo, boring rant.

keith morris looks pretty bad these days, ass length dreads are not dignified for a man of advanced years. which doesn't make "world up my ass" any less great.

he shits on those sometimes. i heard him say it.

Keith looks dreadful these days -- but so does Donald Fagen. I saw him on Madison Avenue about a month ago, and he looks like death.

ass length dreads are not dignified for a man of advanced years

Now I'm just trying to think of Circle Jerks stuff that I hadn't gotten tired of by the time I graduated high school. The version of "When The Shit Hits The Fan" off the Repo Man soundtrack is pretty good. "Jerks on 45" might still be good for laughs.

I have a special place in my heart for: "Ain't got time for the schools/Cause those fuckers are fools".

fagan has always been super ugly guy. thats why hes awes.
then dont look much diff to me at all:
http://www.geocities.com/sd_archive/bf_everything1.jpg

steely dan is funnier. better tunes. better lyrics. 7 stone cold classic lps, 2 solid ones, plus a classic solo album from fagen.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/CircleJerksBySteveHopson.jpg

Steely Dan just look less likely to inhale my head.

greg heston and don fagan kind of look alike

the answer depends on the mood, but steely dan for the most of the time

Snore.

I mean, admittedly -- it's a ridiculous comparison. These bands have nothing in common and serve entirely different ends. This thread wasn't so much designed to trump the accomplishments of the Circle Jerks so much as it was an opportunity to take a dump on the `Dan (though, as far as I'm concerned, Group Sex by the Circle Jerks is a thousand times more fun than any of those "stone cold classic LPs".

But the point being is that this thread could have just as easily been "Taking Sides: Steely Dan vs. The Shaggs" or "Steely Dan vs. GWAR" or "Steely Dan vs. Boney M." etc.

"Group Sex by the Circle Jerks is a thousand times more fun"

what about "Josie" for that matter?

you obviously have some punk cred thing you need to shed leftover from the 70s if you feel this way about the almighty dan.

Nothing to do with "punk." (you're the one appropriating Danzig logos, my man, not me). It's to do with not enjoying music I find dull, self-indulgent and pretentious. I assure you that I hated Steely Dan just as much prior to even hearing a Punk record.

i just thought everyone was over the whole "its lush and has studio musicians and was on am in the 70's so it must be the suck" thing.

and for the record i love both bands but steely's body of work wins this one no question.

the minutemen already united the tribes for us a quarter century ago alex, you can chill with the dan it's cool.

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u301/thet4project/smallpage.Greg_Hetson.jpg
like fagan but balder

"These guys are begging to be set on fire."

Spoken like a true Prodigy fan!

(ps danzig appropriated that skull from marvel comics.)

I'm glad we abandoned the conceit that this thread was about comparing these bands because all I could think of was "fuck both of 'em where's the fucking CLASH"

Steely Dan have been downhill since CBAT and especially Dirty Work

everything else is either 1. utter nonsense 2. perverse creepoid shit that seems to be about either punching the clown while looking at a movie poster or staring in a really terrible way at a fifteen year old who just happened to get on the same train

I mean I guess I can appreciate that they seem to unabashedly embrace this "man I never can get laid without either paying for it or going down on some married fatty" aesthete and surround it with vaguely unconventional jazz-rock arrangements, they're one of a kind, but I confess to always being a bit unnerved by 1. what they look like 2. what they sing about 3. hearing about the thought process they put into every goddamn studio session, fuckin coupla ocd freakshows

I would DEFINITELY rather have Keith take the seat next to me at a bar than Fagen. I'd be terrified of Fagen.

you're smart and everything but i dont really trust your judgment when it comes to music :/

i've met keith a bunch. believe me you don't want to sit next to him.

Peg is amazing but not for good reasons. more like "Q. how did they get something to sound like this before Pro Tools" "A. merciless slavedriving"

I will take your word for it, that sounds OTM. Just making the point.

"Steely Dan have been downhill since CBAT"

so many galaxies of rong

and the clash suck, except for Topper Headon.

good argument.

god wtf am I doing posting to an ILM thead that's not about carl craig or the YMO

at least it's comprehnsible

"all I could think of was "fuck both of 'em where's the fucking CLASH"

Steely Dan have been downhill since CBAT and especially Dirty Work"

tom you scored a o_O and a RONG therein two lines. congrats.

sorry I took the time to try and articulate a position other than "x sucks y is awesome" I forgot which board I was posting to

serves me right for slacking the last hour of my shift

fuck both of 'em where's the fucking THOMPSON TWINS?

that is more o_O than what I said

I never figured you for a clash hater. then again for all I know this is similar to your position re chuck taylor all stars

i like clash singles. i like the hits. i like steely dan WAY more than the clash though. no contest!

<i>I mean I guess I can appreciate that they seem to unabashedly embrace this "man I never can get laid without either paying for it or going down on some married fatty" aesthete</i>

i don't really get the having to pay for sex thing, they seem to live in a sort of weird woody allen movie type thing where i imagined they'd get all these hot looking girls even though they are weird studio muppet looking dudes.

but saying they've been downhill since DIRTY WORK? woah. that's kind of crazy to me...plus honestly I think the whole "OMG they are so subversive sicko dudes just wrapping it up in super gloss adult contempo" thing is kind of overrated to me...there's a TON of steely dan songs that seem really warm and even sad and great to me, not in a ironic or snarky way that they were really good at too, but stuff like "Dr. Wu" which I mentioned is really heartbreaking and if you don't find that melody line sort of affecting or "all night long we would sing that stupid song, and every word we sang i knew was true" then i guess i just don't know what you're hearing..."any world that i'm welcome to" seems really sad too, not just a character....or "any major dude will tell you" is world weary but he feels bad for the kid, what he/she's going to have to go through...

i mean i get what people mean by the sometimes amazing cruelty of their songs and the impressive, maybe coldness of especially the later record, but there's a lot of heart in there for me, i'm not just crushing on some (musically speaking) gorgeous chick that treats me like an asshole and won't return my calls.

**although all the comeback records, esp. two against nature, actually feel like the strawman steely dan people talk about, even though i like them anyway

FWIW the "steely dan are better than any band ever" thing on ILM is about as tiresome as the "its lush and has studio musicians and was on am in the 70's so it must be the suck" thing. im itching to take sides on the circle jerks, who i hate, just because 90% of posters are going to go with the dan on this one.

but yeah i mean in the end this is unfair. SD no fucking question.

and the clash are way better than the CJs and in my book as good as steely dan but i know ill take a hit for saying that.

I was really just saying Dirty Work is an awesome song, plus, not totally boring like tons of later stuff (to me)

maybe an element of creepiness is how dryly they sing everything? part of that overcontrol problem, it all begins to approach eagles-level soullessness at some points

magnificent seven is totally better than anything sd ever did. there.
I'll buy you a beer, max.

How did this thread get to be about the Clash?

Haha, I forgot about the Orbit attack:

aor at its most unimaginative...

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:17 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

look, they were studio dudes. there is a *reason* they were studio dudes. they lacked the imagination and spark to do anything truly great. they are an energyless study in basic competence.

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:32 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

what is the difference between a musician and brilliant musician? a musician is "competent". a brilliant musician has a command of songwriting and a creative spark that goes beyond competence. LISTEN to Steely Dan for God's sake, how can you argue this?

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:43 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

uh, great tunes, witty lyrics?

-- mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:44 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

where?

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:44 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

Steely Dan fans are inexplicable to me. This is a mediocre band at best.

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:48 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

In context, Steely Dan represented everything that punk stood against: major lable dinosaur limo-rock made by people who were technicians above feeling musicians. Jimi Hendrix has more in common with the Sex Pistols or the Clash than any of those do to Steely Dan. The music is STERILE, 70s coke-fueled self-indulgence and I have yet to find a single meaningful lyric in it.

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 9:30 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

i am genuinely baffled.

-- Orbit (Orbit), Friday, February 13, 2004 2:41 AM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

Steely Dan are fucking awesome, btw; virtuosity combined with accessibility combined with just some flat-out genius. Aja is easily one of my favorite albums of all time.

I also don't get "cold and clinical" from them at all; most of their arrangements, while very precise, are also very warm and rich, particularly with the way various instrumental and vocal parts interweave and overlap ("Babylon Sisters" is a fantastic example of this).

Yeah good example, Dan. 'Babylon Sisters' is womb-like.

I just read the 33 1/3 book on 'Aja', which left me a bit disappointed.

aor at its most unimaginative...

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:17 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

look, they were studio dudes. there is a *reason* they were studio dudes. they lacked the imagination and spark to do anything truly great. they are an energyless study in basic competence.

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:32 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

what is the difference between a musician and brilliant musician? a musician is "competent". a brilliant musician has a command of songwriting and a creative spark that goes beyond competence. LISTEN to Steely Dan for God's sake, how can you argue this?

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:43 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

uh, great tunes, witty lyrics?

-- mullygrubber (gaz), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:44 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

where?

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:44 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

Steely Dan fans are inexplicable to me. This is a mediocre band at best.

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:48 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

In context, Steely Dan represented everything that punk stood against: major lable dinosaur limo-rock made by people who were technicians above feeling musicians. Jimi Hendrix has more in common with the Sex Pistols or the Clash than any of those do to Steely Dan. The music is STERILE, 70s coke-fueled self-indulgence and I have yet to find a single meaningful lyric in it.

-- Orbit (Orbit), Thursday, February 12, 2004 9:30 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

i am genuinely baffled.

-- Orbit (Orbit), Friday, February 13, 2004 2:41 AM (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

BUT YOU KNOW WHATS GREAT?! HEROIN!

Dan OTM. And I really can't think of anybody who would offer better barstool conversation than Becker/Fagen.

This thread wasn't so much designed to trump the accomplishments of the Circle Jerks so much as it was an opportunity to take a dump on the `Dan
Wow, what a shocker.
And The Clash is better than both of them put together.

er, in reference to having a seat next to Keith Morris at a bar upthread. Which I'm sure would be sufficiently entertaining itself.

its not.

CLASH TEAM REPRESENT

And The Clash is better than both of them put together.

No arguments there.

clash fans everywhere agree

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wear/content/images/2005/05/09/sunday_crowd2_400x300.jpg

Tuomas?

Too bad Orbit was on the fence about whether he liked Steely Dan or not. I hope he made up his mind.

I'm sure he did.

Gree he he he

http://forum.llc.ed.ac.uk/graphics/pink_flamingos.jpg

Gree he he he

genius

Masturbatory coffee-table jazz-rock noodlery for people with patches on the elbows of their corduroy blazers hanging out in wine bars or "I JUST WANT SOME SKANK".

Circle Jerks, obv.

http://homepage.mac.com/alexinnyc/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2007-09-28%2005.59.27%20-0700/Image-C30C58296DC111DC.jpg

yo is it true alex in nyc got sonned after a blazer beef?

Do you see a patch there? No. Is the blazer corduroy? No If you look to the right, you'll see my BEER. And it's a restaurant, not a wine bar....

So go blow yourself.

But nice try.

REAL PUNKS DONT EAT IN RESTAURANTS!!!!!!!

yeah dude yr supposed to eat, like, garbage and heroin

lighten up, alex

Never claimed to be a punk, btw.

Liking Punk does not equate with being a Punk, I wouldn't say. And fret not, Omar, I'm perfectly...umm...lightened.

or should that be lit, which I plan to be later.

he's not even wearing an undershirt, that's pretty punk if you ask me

: D

Undershirts are for grandmothers and construction workers.

don't forget the military

and construction-working grandmothers.

Alex kinda looks like it fell off the rack at Target, there.

heinken isn't very punk

is that hitchens?

Don't knock that blazer! And no, Heinken ain't very punk, and ain't very good, but it was the only beer being served as part of the open bar (high school reunion thing).

heinken isn't very punk

it does taste like shit though

xpost ha

Alex in NYC is like my id or something.

<3 <3 u alex :)

i like both

Heard some more Steely Dan today -- in a fuckin' diner, no less (the track playing was "Hey Nineteen"). One indignity the Circle Jerks will invariably never face is being reduced to background music at a diner, I guarantee ya that.

All things considered, "Hey Nineteen" isn't nearly as offensive as "Deacon Blue."

yes its true that they probably wouldn't play the circle jerks in diners.

however i hear your girlfriend slicia keys everytime i walk in a 711.

"Deacon Blue" is a fucking incredible song.

its called deacon blues. god.

Oh let's not bring Him into this.

"Q. how did they get something to sound like this before Pro Tools"

lol