The King Crimson studio album poll

Red - King Crimson

― M@tt He1ges0n, Monday, 22 October 2007 20:32 (5 years ago) Permalink

Larks' Tongues in Aspic (April 1973)
Starless and Bible Black (June 1974)

cant decide between these two

― chaki, Monday, 22 October 2007 20:33 (5 years ago) Permalink

red ftw

― Edward III, Monday, 22 October 2007 20:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

So torn between Red and Larks'

― Jon Lewis, Monday, 22 October 2007 20:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

Voted for Red, because I like that 80s live album better than the studio stuff

― Jordan, Monday, 22 October 2007 20:38 (5 years ago) Permalink

My vote's for Red.

― A. Begrand, Monday, 22 October 2007 20:39 (5 years ago) Permalink

starless

― chaki, Monday, 22 October 2007 20:41 (5 years ago) Permalink

CONTROVERSIAL

― Jordan, Monday, 22 October 2007 20:43 (5 years ago) Permalink

somebody likes live improv

― Davey D, Monday, 22 October 2007 20:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

huh? starless is a favorite among music fans.

― chaki, Monday, 22 October 2007 20:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

Islands or Lizards would be controversial, not Starless

― Jon Lewis, Monday, 22 October 2007 20:46 (5 years ago) Permalink

Me being one of them! The majority of the album's tracks are live improvs though.

xpost

― Davey D, Monday, 22 October 2007 20:46 (5 years ago) Permalink

I don't think I have any of the studio albums anymore. I sold them all in college meaning to get the remasters, and then lost interest and never did.

Lizards is a weird fucking record.

― Jordan, Monday, 22 October 2007 20:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

"red" but i'm realising i've not listened to this stuff for so long that my mind might have changed.

― grimly fiendish, Monday, 22 October 2007 20:48 (5 years ago) Permalink

Lark's Tongues here. Sailor's Tale is one of my favorite songs by them, but I hate the rest of Islands. Red is my 2nd choice, In the Court of the Crimson King is my 3rd.

― rockapads, Monday, 22 October 2007 21:02 (5 years ago) Permalink

Lark's Tongue in a photo finish with Starless, Jamie Muir the deciding factor. That guy was wack.

― ellaguru, Monday, 22 October 2007 21:05 (5 years ago) Permalink

oh shit. you're right.

― chaki, Monday, 22 October 2007 21:05 (5 years ago) Permalink

Can't decide between Larks and Discipline.

― Rock Hardy, Monday, 22 October 2007 21:06 (5 years ago) Permalink

I love Muir's work on Lark's Tongue's. Red just kicks ass though.

― Bill Magill, Monday, 22 October 2007 21:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

I voted for Discipline as it was a kick in the head for me who was a punk rocker and heard something I never heard before when it came out. At the time no one sang or spoke like Adrian Belew did not even David Byrne. Today it does sound less exciting but at the time it was really oddball. It was not screaming, it was not singing, it was not spoken word. It was not even nervous in the style of Talking Heads or Devo. It was just this voice that bobbed up and down.

I did go back to listen to the 70s records and they are good. I do not get why everyone loves Red. It rocks. I enjoy it. But what does this record do that Black Sabbath or Deep Purple or even Genesis didnt do better years before?

Islands and Starless And Bible Black are more interesting than Red, which is fun the first few times but that is it.

Discipline is the one for me. Three Of A Perfect Pair comes close. If I had to chose a record side, Side B of Three Of A Perfect Pair would get my vote.

― Miza Din II, Monday, 22 October 2007 21:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

red is too samey sounding all the way through

― chaki, Monday, 22 October 2007 21:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

Jamie Muir ruled. I blew a bunch of money on two of those KCCC live discs that have Muir on them, but it was worth it.

― Jon Lewis, Monday, 22 October 2007 21:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, Muir was dope. I like those 3 mid-70's albums to such a similar degree that I think it would be impossible for me to pick a favorite.

― Davey D, Monday, 22 October 2007 21:17 (5 years ago) Permalink

I bought that "Great Deceiver" set in high school and my friends laughed at me. =(

― Davey D, Monday, 22 October 2007 21:18 (5 years ago) Permalink

Starless just ahead of Red. Discipline and Court are great albums too though.

― Herman G. Neuname, Monday, 22 October 2007 21:20 (5 years ago) Permalink

Red has great drumming, and sounds great too.

― Jordan, Monday, 22 October 2007 21:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

Debut or controversial Islands choice for me.

― Dan Peterson, Monday, 22 October 2007 21:53 (5 years ago) Permalink

They never got better than their debut, although "Lizard" comes close.

― Geir Hongro, Monday, 22 October 2007 22:35 (5 years ago) Permalink

Argh too difficult. They all have superb material and boring material.

Too many distinct eras too. It's like presenting a car, a novel and a banana, and asking me which of those is my favourite thing.

Poseidon and Discipline are the only ones I can listen to without skipping much. Red's got 12 minutes of tuning, Crimson King's got 12 minutes of tuning, ConstruKction is excellent gym workout music but annoying in any other environment, and Larks' Tongues lacks something crucial but I can't pinpoint what it is.

If this were an Adrian Belew poll it'd be easy.

― Autumn Almanac, Monday, 22 October 2007 23:09 (5 years ago) Permalink

Oh, this poll is soooo Larks' Tongues, baby.

― Joe, Monday, 22 October 2007 23:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

Okay Red it is, pretending Providence never existed.

― Autumn Almanac, Monday, 22 October 2007 23:10 (5 years ago) Permalink

G-Bflat-C-C#-Bflat-C
G-Bflat-C-C#-Bflat-C
G-Bflat-C....C#...C...
[clamoring Bruford snare/cymbal fill] F-F# etc.

― Joe, Monday, 22 October 2007 23:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrT2jEv_Yws

― Joe, Monday, 22 October 2007 23:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

sadly i voted for ItCotCK, when I know RED or Starless are just as good

― CaptainLorax, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 00:00 (5 years ago) Permalink

itcock

― Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 01:03 (5 years ago) Permalink

disciplin

― gman, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 01:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

in the wop

― Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 01:43 (5 years ago) Permalink

construkction. simply because it's the only KC album I listen to from start to finish.

there's certainly some great stuff on the other albums, but they're not very consistent, and much skipping is required. I don't think KC have ever really worked in soft balladeering mode.

― m the g, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 08:00 (5 years ago) Permalink

Matte Kudasai? Inner Garden I & II? One Time? Cadence and Cascade? I Talk to the Wind?

― Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 11:51 (5 years ago) Permalink

I'm nitpicking, I know.

― Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 11:51 (5 years ago) Permalink

Oh they haven't worked, not they haven't worked. I see what you mean now.

― Autumn Almanac, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 11:53 (5 years ago) Permalink

Court or Discipline, just to be a cunt.

― King Boy Pato, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 13:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

I picked "Starless & Bible Black", I like a load of their records about equally, I just went on which one would I want to listen to now if I had them all in front of me.

― Pashmina, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 13:33 (5 years ago) Permalink

Going with Three of a Perfect Pair, but might've easily gone with In the Court Of.. or Discipline or Earthbound.

― Alex in NYC, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 13:49 (5 years ago) Permalink

wait, Earthbound is live, never mind that one.

― Alex in NYC, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 13:50 (5 years ago) Permalink

I really like Providence, I don't think, it's just "tuning"

― Bill Magill, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 14:01 (5 years ago) Permalink

thank you, thank you, thank you, dear kc thread! you've given me a fab new word -- itcockin'!

and as i'm 'ready here, might as well vote. as well.

done it. i'm all for starless. ('tleast today)

― t**t, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 14:26 (5 years ago) Permalink

almost impossible to do one overall. i chose lark's because i'm boring but it could just as easily have been red, discipline, or beat

― akm, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 16:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

lizard

― kamerad, Tuesday, 23 October 2007 17:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

good for her, but does anyone really care about the charts anymore?

I mean CAKE had a #1 album in 2011, and it didn't even really sell that well

― frogbs, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 15:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

whoops, I posted that in the wrong thread

― frogbs, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 15:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

Okay, I just heard the Islands remaster - nowhere near as good as the Lizard one, still kinda lukewarm on it.

The interesting thing is that there is a bonus track which is basically a section of the "Larks 1" jam with some sax on it.

― frogbs, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 20:12 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm gonna listen to this on my way home.

― WARS OF ARMAGEDDON (Karaoke Version) (Sparkle Motion), Wednesday, 17 August 2011 22:04 (1 year ago) Permalink

I decided that I will revise my S&BB review when the 40th edition comes out in a month or two - I was harsher on it than I remembered, and some of the bonus material seems great. Dunno if I disliked it so much because I found it boring or if I just thought they could do so much better.

― frogbs, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 22:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

I may post on Islands later tonight.

― Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 17 August 2011 22:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

Prob don't have it in me to do the whole thing tonight. But dl'd the 40th Anniversary of Islands -- and after a few A/Bs of the two, the stereo remix of the title track absolutely ruins the hushed atmospherics of the original. Too much Mellotron, but more importantly noise gates on the cornet solos that all but eliminates the hissy, analog tape atmosphere in the earlier mix where you could hear players shifting in their seats. That said, I bet this sounds incredible in 5.1 surround sound.

― Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 18 August 2011 02:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

essentially my view on that album is that it would have turned out better had they just not tried to write songs at all. Boz is basically useless. I like "Formentera Lady" but would rather just hear a 40 minute jazz session from these guys.

― frogbs, Thursday, 18 August 2011 03:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

can't believe anyone would hate on SB&B.

My crimson introduction in the mid 80's was basically: the 80's records, then Court (I was like, "WTF"), and then SB&B, which was the total lynchpin of the entire enterprise to my 14 year old ears. Relistened the other day, i still think it is a better album than Red.

― akm, Thursday, 18 August 2011 03:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

I like Larks best of the Wetton era.

― L.P. Hovercraft (WmC), Thursday, 18 August 2011 03:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

Red is incredible. Larks is great but SB&B keeps stopping for noodles.

― Autumn Almanac, Thursday, 18 August 2011 03:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

I mean take tracks 1, 2, 4 and Fracture and make it an EP ffs.

― Autumn Almanac, Thursday, 18 August 2011 03:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

my problem is that they drew all the improv from a night where they were "off". "Trio" is indeed pretty but they don't really let any of the stuff develop. I dig "Asbury Park" but there's nothing like it on the album. As for the songs, I liked "The Night Watch" a lot more with the original intro, though it is good, but "Lament" kind of feels like filler to be. Love the electric violin on "Deciever" though. Will have to give side 2 another pop

― frogbs, Thursday, 18 August 2011 04:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

SABB was always my favorite of the era as well. Only the title track doesn't really go anywhere. "We'll Let You Know" is great, and coalesces into a pretty massive groove by Wetton. "The Mincer" is eerie. As noted, "Trio" is amazing. For me, it's the record that feels the most like the way this band must have sounded live.

What "original intro" are you talking about for "Night Watch"? The song is recorded in the studio with a live intro.

― Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 18 August 2011 12:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

Islands is worth it just for "Sailor's Tale" and its incredible guitar solo. In that song you can hear Fripp throwing off the baroque elements of the first KC and cueing up the harsher sound of the Wetton/Cross/Muir years.

― ban this sick stunt (anagram), Thursday, 18 August 2011 12:55 (1 year ago) Permalink

What "original intro" are you talking about for "Night Watch"? The song is recorded in the studio with a live intro.

It's different on The Night Watch live disc. I may have to relisten to it now but I could swear it was more bombastic. IIRC the mellotron broke during that performance though which explains why the song cuts off so suddenly. I'm not really sure on any of this but that's what I remember hearing about it.

― frogbs, Thursday, 18 August 2011 13:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

I spent some time listening to the Collectors Club release of the '98 Nashville Rehearsals--the aborted attempt to make another double trio album--it's predictably a mess, though somewhat entertaining for it. Though there are bits that would show up in Larks' IV & V, the overall sound is surprisingly light--alot of really upbeat pieces, with a surprising amount of tunes that wouldn't sound out of place in an ice skating rink. One track in particular, "Sad Woman Jam" sounds like an outtake from Discipline, kind of cool. But ultimately it's the sound of a band with one too many drummers...you can practically hear Bruford walking out the door...there just doesn't appear to be much room for a second percussionist. Anyway, an interesting curio.

― WARS OF ARMAGEDDON (Karaoke Version) (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 22 August 2011 16:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

Listened to Islands today for the first time in years. Still love it, and really wish they would have explored a bit more in this 'chamber-jazz' realm. Paulina Lucas, the soprano voice on "Formentera Lady" died last year; there's virtually nothing about it on the net. I need to buy the new remaster stat.

Or I could buy this "WOC" vinyl for $16 on ebay:

― Hey T-Paw, mow my lawn! (Dan Peterson), Monday, 22 August 2011 20:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

that's awesome

― (⊙_⊙?) (Alan N), Monday, 22 August 2011 21:06 (1 year ago) Permalink

that was when they reissued it on El Saturn right

― WARS OF ARMAGEDDON (Karaoke Version) (Sparkle Motion), Monday, 22 August 2011 21:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

Ha! Listened to this all improv recording today too, produced by Fripp. The spacy tinkles piano is nice; the skronkier/plonkier bits and Julie Tippetts' recorder and slide whistle noises are a bit irritating tho.

― Hey T-Paw, mow my lawn! (Dan Peterson), Monday, 22 August 2011 22:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

Listened to Islands today for the first time in years. Still love it, and really wish they would have explored a bit more in this 'chamber-jazz' realm. Paulina Lucas, the soprano voice on "Formentera Lady" died last year; there's virtually nothing about it on the net. I need to buy the new remaster stat.

Also, this is a good piece on the reissue:

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=37630&page=1

― Naive Teen Idol, Tuesday, 23 August 2011 04:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

Ok, just listened to the unedited "Asbury Park" for the first time. Agreed that the loud ass comping from Cross on Mellotron is crazy -- I was like, "Wait, where the hell is THAT on USA?" And I went back and listened to the edited version and, sure enough, it's there very quietly in the bgd. But more to the point: there's a funky jam for the last 3 or 4 minutes of the piece! My brain almost exploded.

I'm liking this.

― Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 24 August 2011 04:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

Sparkle motion, my lizard vivarium is empty, please send me an email as well!

That Ian McDonald excerpt is totally insane. Aside from the, y'know, 'having sex' part, Fripp's sense of humor reminds me oddly of Glenn Gould's...

Oh! Oh!

― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 24 August 2011 16:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

I just can't agree with it. Islands is still kinda crap. Not unsalvagable, not uninteresting, but just not really a good album.

― frogbs, Wednesday, 24 August 2011 18:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

I can understand that, I guess -- but you can't deny the solo on "Sailor's Tale" and the title track's long coda with the cornet solo.

― Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 24 August 2011 19:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

absolutely - as I mentioned I think it would be much better as just a soft jazz record w/ no songs

― frogbs, Wednesday, 24 August 2011 19:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

If I had a more substantial audio system, I'd love to hear the complete package of this -- the "Road to Islands" and so forth. I think feeling the context for it has helped with my enjoyment of it.

― Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 24 August 2011 19:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

it would be much better as just a soft jazz record w/ no songs

Because of Sinfield's lyrics, or Boz's voice, or...? It would mostly work, except Beatles pastiche "Ladies Of The Road," which fits poorly in this record anyway, but KC was always about juxtapositions. I've listened to "Formentera Lady" three times in three days; never a favorite years ago, but (speaking of juxtapositions) the scratchy cello intro, meeting up with the sort of R. Carlos Nakai Native American flute bits, and especially the glacial sax and soprano voice outro are all just working for me lately.

And the title track is unfuckwithable for me.

― Hey T-Paw, mow my lawn! (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 24 August 2011 20:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

That All About Jazz review of the reissue I posted upthread makes a good case for the record -- and for Boz's contributions as well.

― Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 24 August 2011 20:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yeah, that was a nice piece. I think I like Boz's voice better than Lake's or Wetton's, just not as bombastic.

― Hey T-Paw, mow my lawn! (Dan Peterson), Wednesday, 24 August 2011 20:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

It's not really the lyrics or the voice, it's mostly that I just don't think he contributes anything, except maybe on "Formentera Lady". Like I'm imagining the title track without him and it seems much better. Plus I think both "Ladies" and "The Letters" are crap, so maybe those could be replaced as well. If you haven't heard it, check out the Ladies of the Road live set - these guys really could play, they were kind of a jazz-rock nightmare but they had a pretty unique sense of groove and IMO did "Schizoid Man" better than anyone.

― frogbs, Wednesday, 24 August 2011 20:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

jon lewis, check yr webmail

― WARS OF ARMAGEDDON (Karaoke Version) (Sparkle Motion), Thursday, 25 August 2011 02:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

Oh! Oh!

(ty)

― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 25 August 2011 16:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

Sparkle, have you bought a bunch of stuff from the DGM website? I've been going through it recently and haven't bought anything as of yet, but it seems like a goddamn goldmine of stuff -- with great entries (and comments from fans) about the downloads themselves, what they sound like, the context for them, etc. I'm particularly interested in pulling down some of the Frippertronics concerts.

― Naive Teen Idol, Friday, 26 August 2011 20:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

I just read the Fripp interview on PSF, he's actually a pretty amazing speaker, one of the few really worthwhile interviews I've ever read. Another one I read was Steven Wilson's (different website), who said something pretty interesting, that the reason why neo-prog is so uninspired and forgettable is that it lost its jazz base and therefore became uninspired. I've come to realize that KC's jazz background is really what made them so special. It all made sense here when someone compared '73 Crimson to Can, there's actually some real truth there, and it explains why I love these guys but can't stand bands like Tool.

― frogbs, Friday, 26 August 2011 20:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

the reason why neo-prog is so uninspired and forgettable is that it lost its jazz base and therefore became uninspired. I've come to realize that KC's jazz background is really what made them so special

yeah but are you including the 81-4 and post-94 line-ups in that? cos I don't hear any jazz in those line-ups at all and maybe that's why I find it hard to differentiate them from neo-prog

― ban this sick stunt (anagram), Friday, 26 August 2011 22:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

The Post-Red lineups still carry that heritage by who is playing in them--up until the point where Bruford, the jazziest of the bunch leaves the band for good. True that there's no jazz per se but the love of improvisation is evident from the way they write and of course play. The Projekcts, especially, bear this out.

― WARS OF ARMAGEDDON (Karaoke Version) (Sparkle Motion), Friday, 26 August 2011 22:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

This debate made me think of this interview w Chris Cutler in which he pretty much tears into Fripp:

VM: How do you see British groups such as King Crimson, Van der Graaf, Gentle Giant and Jethro Tull to the progressive music?

CC: Personally, I have to say that I never had much time for King Crimson. I disliked their first album and, apart from a track here and there, didn't find much I cared for on later albums either. To make things harder, they were contemporaries of Henry Cow and we were often pointlessly compared with them (especially Fred Frith who got foolishly compared/confused with Robert Fripp). But we never saw the connection really; they were working in a much narrower musical field than we were. And when they began to make big statements about their originality for improvising (around Jaimie Muir/Larks Tongues time) we found that frankly rather pathetic. But that was their way - after all Fripp claimed to have invented 'frippertronics', which is either a mark of ignorance on his part or outrageous arrogance, since every guitarist 'invented' that obvious procedure. I was not a fan of the other groups you list either, or Yes or Genesis for that matter, the quintessential 'progressive' groups. I don't think we had much in common with any of them. We certainly didn't learn anything from them. I, for instance, would havre to go back to early Zappa, Beefheart, Barrett's Pink Floyd, Soft Machine, AMM, Sun Ra, Coltrane, Coleman, Stockhausen, Schoenberg and so on for influences. And for contemporary bands in the 70's, Magma, Faust, Samla Mammas Manna.

There have been others who have voiced similar criticisms -- Gary Lucas of Magic Band fame wrote a withering review for Zoo World of Larks' Tongues when it came out.

Putting aside the fact that Cutler totally misses the humor in calling it "Frippertronics" (which Fripp has said many times was so-named bc he thought it was funny) the point I feel a lot of people miss is that 70s King Crimson wasn't about AMM-style improvisation or even jazz, really once the Islands band was put to rest -- it was about improvising in a distinctly rock context.

I think that's partly why Jamie Muir--the most obvious connection to the free improv scene--didn't last very long -- Fripp has said he hired Muir and Bruford for the band in part bc no one was the perfect drummer for the band. And once Bruford absorbed Muir's ideas and approach (such as the second section of "Starless"), the latter became kind of superfluous.

To the extent there were outside influences, they were classical composers like Bartok.

Oh, and fuck Henry Cow.

― Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 27 August 2011 01:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

Which is to say, given what I do know of them, I'm pretty fucking certain Frith and Cutler never did a single thing that rocked .02% as hard as "Red" or the breakdown in "Schizoid Man." It's a totally different language.

And as for Cutler, everyone knows that Ubu got good again when Scott Krauss came back.

― Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 27 August 2011 03:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah but are you including the 81-4 and post-94 line-ups in that? cos I don't hear any jazz in those line-ups at all and maybe that's why I find it hard to differentiate them from neo-prog

I don't really see the 81-84 lineups as progressive rock at all. It's definitely something unique and inspired but it has a lot more in common with Talking Heads than any incarnations of Crimson past. Post-94 I think suffers from the same thing in that they lost their jazz base and started playing a lot of technical rock that was kinda cool but not very inspired. For the record I think that THRAK and TPTB are good records, but they don't have the same whoomph

― frogbs, Saturday, 27 August 2011 03:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

A lot of their 90's onward technical rock ain't got no mood or atmosphere unless it's a repeat from an earlier song; and a lot of Fripp's work in the Projekcts sounds so similar to his stuff in the other parts of the Projekcts that I wonder if Fripp can branch out at all anymore. A couple years ago I left a guestbook entry on DGMlive stating that Fripp's guitar tone, in particular, could use something new (like a lot more grungy distortion)

― that's cute, but it's WRONG (CaptainLorax), Saturday, 27 August 2011 06:59 (1 year ago) Permalink

To be honest most of the successes King Crimson had after the 70's band broke up should really be credited to Belew. Fripp's come up with some neat concepts but Belew always wrote the songs that made them work - I always found the the more Fripp-centric stuff that the 80's band did like the second side of TOAPP or "Requiem" to be dull, and even TPTB sounds a lot like the subsequent Belew solo albums.

― frogbs, Saturday, 27 August 2011 07:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

Which is to say, given what I do know of them, I'm pretty fucking certain Frith and Cutler never did a single thing that rocked .02% as hard as "Red" or the breakdown in "Schizoid Man."

Um, please check out the three Art Bears albums and see if you still feel this way. They are monstrously heavy! I mean let's not throw the baby out w the bwater here just because Cutler has some weird hangups about other bands. (FYI I don't like Henry Cow either but Art Bears were a whole different deal).

And as for Cutler, everyone knows that Ubu got good again when Scott Krauss came back.

The Tenement Year is IMO the third best Ubu album after Modern and Dub so I gotta disagree with you there. Cutler is a monster when persuaded into a rock/song-based forum.

He has to talk a bunch of crap, he's a marxist.

― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Saturday, 27 August 2011 16:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

/Which is to say, given what I do know of them, I'm pretty fucking certain Frith and Cutler never did a single thing that rocked .02% as hard as "Red" or the breakdown in "Schizoid Man."/

Um, please check out the three Art Bears albums and see if you still feel this way. They are monstrously heavy! I mean let's not throw the baby out w the bwater here just because Cutler has some weird hangups about other bands. (FYI I don't like Henry Cow either but Art Bears were a whole different deal).

Fair enough. I had forgotten about those records.

/And as for Cutler, everyone knows that Ubu got good again when Scott Krauss came back./

The Tenement Year is IMO the third best Ubu album after Modern and Dub so I gotta disagree with you there. Cutler is a monster when persuaded into a rock/song-based forum.

But that's my point -- The Tenement Year is the record Krauss came back for. My memory was he was the guy who made the difference, not Cutler.

He has to talk a bunch of crap, he's a marxist.

True enough. It reminds me of when Robert Wyatt broke w bassist (and brother of writer Ian MacDonald) Bill McCormack when the latter became an MP or something. To understand how personally betrayed Wyatt (a Stalinist and by all accounts a wonderful person) felt by it all, have a listen to the withering "Alliance" he wrote in response.

Anyway, my real point was that I think that the reason a lot of free improv-types like Cutler probably don't care for Fripp is that he went in a decidedly different direction after having probably started in somewhat similar places. And the fact that Fripp remained every bit as intense and dogmatic about his own work as these guys were about theirs probably didn't help matters.

― Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 27 August 2011 18:34 (1 year ago) Permalink

oh yeah, damn I had changed it in my mind so that Cloudland was Krauss + Cutler and Tenement Year was just Cutler. Duh.

For a remarkably un-Marxist Cutler spiel, see his recent statement about the effects of downloading...

Anyway King Crimson! Corking great band!

― Axolotl with an Atlatl (Jon Lewis), Saturday, 27 August 2011 21:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

revive so i could lol at this again

"In fact, I've never seen so many delightful young bodies, both quantity and quality, within such a short space of time as the last month in America. I was overwhelmed. By the end of the tour, I came back unfit for anything, completely exhausted on every level of my being. Oh! Oh!

― the MMMM cult (La Lechera), Thursday, 17 November 2011 17:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

not even a year later, i am here to revive

this time i will repost the excerpt in its entirety because it is just that good

From Robert Fripp: The Sexual Athlete, by Ian MacDonald:

"What," I enquired, fully expecting a swift back-down, "was the best lay you ever had?"

Fripp stroked his chin, reflectively. "There are about four chicks involved in that – not, in this case, simultaneously. I have to admit. However, return with me if you will to my earliest days as a rock musician. I used to get complaints from Greg (Lake). Not directly, but I used to hear about them.

"You see, we shared this flat which was basically one room divided into two by a thin cardboard screen. It was, as you can imagine, not fit to live in. Anyway, Greg used to complain about the gasps and screams coming from my side of the partition and, I must admit, his women used to get on my nerves too. No comment on Gregory, just his women – but I decided to move out.

"The ensuing period of my homelessness in 1969 was one of the most rewarding of my life. I was continually thrown on the mercies and generosities of tender maidens. Oh those lovely situations. It was quite awful in one way – but quite beautiful in another."

...

"Of course, when one is young one has all these delusions of being the great stud and one is not interested in a harmonious relationship of giving and taking. But, I'm happy to say, those days for me are now long past and I have spent many fulfiling hours, even on this very lawn upon which I now recline, not only copulating but involved in various other activities.

"In fact I was lying here naked one day, a young lady in attendance, when my next-door neighbour, the chairman of the Rural District Council, popped his head over yonder hedge to inform me that I had Dutch Elm Disease."

"Of course, when one is young one has all these delusions of being the great stud and one is not interested in a harmonious relationship of giving and taking. But, I'm happy to say, those days for me are now long past and I have spent many fulfiling hours, even on this very lawn upon which I now recline, not only copulating but involved in various other activities.

"In fact I was lying here naked one day, a young lady in attendance, when my next-door neighbour, the chairman of the Rural District Council, popped his head over yonder hedge to inform me that I had Dutch Elm Disease.

"But America is the place for numbers really. We've just done all the sunshine areas. Now sunshine, what ever it does to anyone else, has the most alarming repercussions within me. Things happen to my body. I undergo chemical changes.

"I find myself drooling, my tongue hanging out, my mouth snapping together involuntarily, twitchings – obsessive thoughts – the lewd imagination develops.

"In fact, I've never seen so many delightful young bodies, both quantity and quality, within such a short space of time as the last month in America. I was overwhelmed. By the end of the tour, I came back unfit for anything, completely exhausted on every level of my being. Oh! Oh!

"Nowadays I say to the rest of the lads: Take my name off the list, lads, put me on the reserve list – only to be called up in dire emergency. Then, after an afternoon in the sun by a swimming-pool with all these young bodies hanging in and out of bikinis, I say: Lads, you've got to put me back on the list. And I'll be called up to action. Oh! Oh! The battles that are fought throughout the Holiday-Inns of America! Delightful."

...

AND ENO? What of the man that the groupies of three continents have come to know as The Refreshing Experience?

"Yes," nods Fripp, his glazed expression returning. "We're both incorrigible womanizers, both wonderful examples of young Taurian virility. It may interest you to see a certain picture which will be the cover for our joint recording effort, The Transcendental Music Corporation, featuring us both in a state of undress.

"We were intending to have with us certain similarly unclad females – but, on reflection, decided that this was but a feeble excuse to gaze upon the works of the creator made manifest in the flesh.

"So we decided that it was a far nicer idea to have Eno and myself in the nude as a small way of saying thank you to those ladies who have done what they can in the past to enable us to develop as men – and, hopefully, as an invitation to all those ladies in the future who'd like to help us develop even further."

― these albatrosses have no fear of man (La Lechera), Monday, 24 September 2012 21:16 (7 months ago) Permalink

Oh! Oh!

― worthy pioneer! (weatheringdaleson), Monday, 24 September 2012 22:21 (7 months ago) Permalink

I can only imagine Fripp having sex sitting on a little stool with a very serious face

― The Most Typical and Popular Girl Rider (Crabbits), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 04:23 (7 months ago) Permalink