Taking Sides: Patrick Cowley vs Arthur Russell

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Who is your favorite?

I finally got around to picking up a copy of Mind Warp by Patrick Cowley and I am closing out the weekend with this record and a pitcher of margaritas. The more I become familiar with Cowley's work the more I am convinced that his work is extremely under-rated on ILM. There is a small core of people showing his work love, but he doesn't have the same profile that Arthur Russell has.

Russell has the better back story, running away to San Fran to join a Buddist monastery and getting kicked out for not giving up the cello, moving to NYC to live in the Chelsea while "borrowing" electricity Ginsberg, running the Kitchen, almost being a member of Talking Heads, making disco records with David Byrne(dinosaur) and Nicky Siano (loose Joints), running Sleeping Bag, releasing World Of Echo, being an AIDS casualty in 1992.

Cowley made in to SF in 72 and he hooked into the synth scene out there and became an extremely proficient programmer. He was part of the gay disco scene out there and blew up with Sylvester's Mighty Real. He released a string of albums and singles that feature some of the best synth programming and arrangement of era. He doesn't have any crazy rock crossover stories that I know of, just a brilliant, if under promoted, body of work. His career was cut extremely short when he died of AIDS in 1982.

A year ago I would have chosen Russell over Cowley, but know more about his work, I think Cowley was the superior artist. I expect to be shouted down by the ilx hivemind. If a few more heads are down with his work, my mission is accomplished. He made some great records.

I don't claim to have heard everything yet. There is a lot of territory I haven't covered yet. This is the stuff I have that I like a lot:

http://www.discogs.com/release/217386
http://www.discogs.com/release/157679
http://www.discogs.com/release/20039
http://www.discogs.com/release/474709
http://www.discogs.com/release/514778

I still need to get a hold of the first Cowley album. I have heard it and it's definitely worth looking into.

I finished the pitcher of Margaritas and now I am working my way through the Audika World Of Echo reissue. Good stuff. I have the Loose Joints stuff, and a bootleg of the dinosaur record, the Calling Out Of Context
album which Jess correctly labeled as 80's IDM, and I have mp3z of the soul jazz comp on a hard drive 25 hours from here. I Had Springfield, but I returned dem shitz because it was a wack reissue cash in.

What else should I look into?

It's weird listening to World Of Echo again. Reminds me of leaving Detroit. I listened to this and Spirit Of Eden by Talk Talk a lot when I first moved to Austin. This music makes me feel like a refugee when I listen to it. It's hard to believe it has been four years.

Hiding Your Present and Let's Go Swimming are such great pieces of music. What a wonderfully minimal record. There is so much room on this record. It would be hard to make a record like this today. It's four tracks, a mixer, and some echo, reverb, and a little distortion/phaser/flanger. Home studios don't have these kind of limitations anymore.

Display Name, Monday, 20 August 2007 04:12 (sixteen years ago) link

I'm not familiar with Cowley's music. Is there more "out-there" stuff like Russell's 'World of Echo'?

Not that I don't like the dance stuff. I'll dance to it at least. Do people really dance to the kind of music on that Soul Jazz comp? If so, direct to the place, and I'll get the hell out of Athens, Ga.

I got to see Peter Zummo play once - an improv stuff. Only a few years later realized he'd recorded with Russell

J Kaw, Monday, 20 August 2007 04:29 (sixteen years ago) link

oops meant it to be "an improv gig."

J Kaw, Monday, 20 August 2007 04:30 (sixteen years ago) link

I love Patrick Cowley and agree that he's underrated, though perhaps not specifically on ILM. Not sure i'd really want to choose between him and Arthur TBH! It's a good question/discussion point though mt, I think there are some pretty clear reasons as to why Patrick hasn't been embraced by the critical cognoscenti the way Arthur Russell has, and it would be interesting to think about what it would take to convince everyone that Cowley was an "important figure" in the way that Russell is regarded as being.

Maybe a key issue is that Russell always seems like this wild musical sprite who 'passes through' disco but is not defined by it, whereas Cowley really blew it up from within.

Who do you prefer b/w Cowley and Robotnik, mt? I assume Cowley?

I have to go but want to come back and talk about this some more later.

Tim F, Monday, 20 August 2007 04:34 (sixteen years ago) link

Who do you prefer b/w Cowley and Robotnik, mt? I assume Cowley?

As far as a total career goes, I like Cowley better. Then again I don't know much about Maurizio Dami's career outside of the Fuzz Dance comp. I am not a huge italo/nrg head, my specialty is Detroit and Chicago and those scene keep me quite busy. Honestly, I like Check Out Five(b2) better than Problems. I think I almost cannot really hear Problems because it is so obscured by being a cannon track. I love the Designer Music Edit Carl Craig did.

I think the thing that kills Cowley is that he doesn't have any of the rock backstory so he can't grab cred by association. He doesn't have any good stories, he was just a brilliant studio guy that laid the groundwork for a whole bunch of great gay dance records that haven't been cannonized by hipster record nerds yet. I think his music might signify as being too strictly DANCE and too GAY to be fully embraced by hipsters. EXPERIMENTAL and GAY can work if Soul Jazz curates it, but underground GAY DANCE music that isn't being curated isn't real music in a lot of people minds. When there is a Hi-NRG Soul Jazz comp the tides will turn for this guy.

The other flip side is that people already jacked the italo vibe, and now it seems the hip music crush of the moment is Balearic instead of NRG. People still aren't digging for those records yet, at least from what I see on ILM.

Display Name, Monday, 20 August 2007 05:00 (sixteen years ago) link

sea hunt is definitely one of the most beautiful songs i've ever heard. i played it this one time and my friend was shouting at me "OMG THIS SOUNDS LIKE PORPOISES FUCKING IN OUTER SPACE!!!!" also, sylvester's i need somebody to love tonight is a favorite (cowley produced that).

jaime, Monday, 20 August 2007 05:05 (sixteen years ago) link

That being said, I am not digging hard for those records either, but Cowley and Bobby O(to a lesser extent) seem like the goto guys if you want the heads up on the cream of the crop of that scene.

I used to do a night with guys who collected that stuff obsessively and really knew their shit. There is a lot of great music in that area if you know what to look for. The problem with it is that there isn't anybody out there that is selling this stuff to the sheep yet.

I remember when disco wasn't cool in Austin yet, and the same guys I am referring to above used to play disco records to me and which ever three random people happened to be at the empty bar that night. Anyway, Metro Area came through town and played a set of the same b-sides of these guys had been playing all along, and then all of a sudden disco became collectible in Austin. It was very weird to see people start liking something en mass because somebody with cred told them that they were allowed to like it.

Display Name, Monday, 20 August 2007 05:20 (sixteen years ago) link

Yeah, it's like that with anything, ain't it? I mean, if Soul Jazz dropped a Cowley comp next week every metro beardo type would be name-droppin Cowley like crazy (especially if they started calling Cowley an experimental artist).

But talkin music and not hype ... it's an interesting question you pose.

Cowley vs. Russell
DISCO vs. "disco-not-disco" (god, I hate that term)
artifice vs. art
synthetic vs. organic
bad-taste cheese vs. ever-so-tasteful chin-strokery

And obviously, I'm painting the picture in strokes that are way too broad and of course it's not anywhere near as simple as those binaries are ... (and maybe I'm responding too much to the after-the-fact cult of Russell because I'm not quite sure how Russell was perceived during his lifetime, btw ... anyone?).

Thinking with the dancefloor in mind, however, I'd choose Cowley any day over Russell. And I love Arthur Russell! Yet, aside from a few gems (e.g. "All Over My Face"), most Arthur Russsell tracks are not dancefloor-killers.

Cowley tracks are totally distinct yet still have a kind of anonymous quality that I find in a lot of the best dance music. Arthur Russell's tracks, on the other hand, are just so odd. And they're very upfront in showing their idiosyncrasies. Good for listening, studying, being amazed by, etc. ... but just not as good for moving asses.

Also, Cowley stuff has more of a proto-house and techno feel that I appreciate.

Romeo Jones, Monday, 20 August 2007 07:31 (sixteen years ago) link

Russell was cannonized by record nerd hipsters not because of the Rock backstory but because he already had an art-music profile via the Point CD c/o Philip Glass and before that David Toop writing about World of Echo, all that while his dance stuff, while classic in dance scenes, weren't appreciated as part of a whole the way they are now.

Cowley was cannonized by dance music heads way before Russell was.

I say apples and oranges anyway.

dan selzer, Monday, 20 August 2007 14:56 (sixteen years ago) link

And the Hi-NRG revival is on it's way, it'll be our backlash from the slow balaeric/cosmic trends, and will tie in neatly when all the dance-rock newbies get older and more comfortable with their sexuality.

dan selzer, Monday, 20 August 2007 14:59 (sixteen years ago) link

i don't know why you would wish the deathless nerd-praise that arthur russell gets on an artist who has a spot in his own, more appropriate dance canon already. I love 'a little lost' and everything but can do w/out the beardo non-dancing twee fans who make him out to be a bigger deal than classic dance producers because of it

deej, Monday, 20 August 2007 15:08 (sixteen years ago) link

i mean beardo in the sense that 'i met someone like this who had a beard,' not a diss of fans of the beardo thread or something

deej, Monday, 20 August 2007 15:08 (sixteen years ago) link

replace "beardo" with "chin-scratchers" and things are more clear. Beardo comes from a dance fan's perspective, the idea was more about disco people growing beards in emulation of Mancuso and Harvey and dancing to classic rock, as opposed to bearded, chin-scratching, Wire magazine reading wallflowers.

dan selzer, Monday, 20 August 2007 15:11 (sixteen years ago) link

^^^ok yes you get what i'm saying!

deej, Monday, 20 August 2007 15:12 (sixteen years ago) link

apples and oranges agreed, dan .. but interesting discussion nonetheless.

Romeo Jones, Monday, 20 August 2007 15:53 (sixteen years ago) link

The Megatron Man CD is a good buy, right?

Alex xy, Monday, 20 August 2007 15:54 (sixteen years ago) link

yes! of course

deej, Monday, 20 August 2007 15:56 (sixteen years ago) link

and Cowley does have some weird rock connections...see Indoor Life.

dan selzer, Monday, 20 August 2007 16:00 (sixteen years ago) link

Display Name (or whoever else) you've definitely got to hear Cowley's Indoor Life record

http://e.discogs.com/release/524228

got this recently via jax0n (who pegged it as "james chance with synths"), it's been on really heavy rotation for me (and I was already listening to the betty botox version of "voodoo" a bunch). sounds a little like talking heads but on a darker punk vibe with nasty synth basslines. "archeology" and "gillmore of the fillmore" are just as good as "voodoo" ....

lol xpost!

dmr, Monday, 20 August 2007 16:01 (sixteen years ago) link

Thanks for the tip, I will keep an eye out for that record.

Display Name, Monday, 20 August 2007 16:16 (sixteen years ago) link

If Cowley is underrated, the blame could fall squarely on dance culture, not Wire and Soul Jazz for failing to canonize him. The media machine surrounding dance music seems far bigger than the media machine surrounding chin-scratching experimental stuff.

QuantumNoise, Monday, 20 August 2007 16:32 (sixteen years ago) link

it's all relative. Cowley is only underrated by the chin-scratchers, not in dance culture. In electronic dance music circles he's second only to Giorgio Moroder. The point isn't the size of the media machines, but the "cred" of the respective scenes. Anyway, as mentioned, I don't see the point of comparison so much, but in discussing their relative "ratings" and "cred", we're talking about amongst somewhat different fanbases.

dan selzer, Monday, 20 August 2007 16:40 (sixteen years ago) link

Cowley is only underrated by the chin-scratchers, not in dance culture.

But why is he underrated by chin-scratchers? I mean, what did Cowley produce that should be acknowledged by chin-scratchers? Maybe his music simply doesn't speak to that crowd. And if that's the case, maybe he isn't underrated. Maybe he's just not their cup of tea. Russell, on the other hand, had one foot in chin-scratching and even his dance music sounds like it. I hope I'm making sense. I think we're on the same page, when you say they're apples and oranges.

QuantumNoise, Monday, 20 August 2007 16:53 (sixteen years ago) link

'chin scratchers' probably do a better job of shaping music discourse as a whole, tho ... prioritizing 'thoughtful' over 'hedonistic' or whatever

deej, Monday, 20 August 2007 16:55 (sixteen years ago) link

The questions then would be...did Cowley do anything that would impress the chin-scratchers, and if so, why don't they appreciate. Is it because it's blatantly "dance" music in a way not all Russell is? Is it because it's so gay? I think it depends on the chin-scratchers and what they're looking for, I suppose. I think Cowley's music is rich enough that the chin-scratchers, if they got past the dance aspect, would appreciate his production, which is say, similar to Bobby O but several degrees deeper and more complex(and I say that as a Bobby O fan). But there's many other issues, I mean, Cowley's songwriting, even when couched in this amazingly beautiful electronic dance music, was usually pretty basic pop stuff, which tends to turn some people off. But I'm also not so sure there really are that many chin-scratchers out there who haven't come around to respecting dance music anyway. It's just timing, maybe Soul Jazz hasn't gotten around to it yet, or maybe it's too close to the Ian Levine style Hi-NRG that has always had less cred in UK dance circles, or maybe it's just a pain to license it all from Unidisc.

dan selzer, Monday, 20 August 2007 17:10 (sixteen years ago) link

the other thing is that arthur russell was pretty much more obscure, right? i mean everyone knows 'is it all over my face' is dance canon material but for the most part he was kind of a new discovery when that soul jazz comp dropped ... and other records were reissued. or am i just projecting?

deej, Monday, 20 August 2007 17:29 (sixteen years ago) link

it wasn't a new discovery then, it was just the context. Being someone who had feet firmly planted in both dance and non-dance words, it was like there were two different people. All the disco heads loved Is It All Over My Face, but when buying Another Thought or World of Echo, it wasn't like a big deal was made that this guy was also involved with disco.

dan selzer, Monday, 20 August 2007 17:41 (sixteen years ago) link

I dunno, I think Cowley is pretty obscure now too - it's pretty hard to find his albums!

I don't think it's as apples and oranges as people are claiming here. Put "Is It All Over My Face" and "I Need Somebody To Love Tonight" next to one another and it's not clear which one is necessarily gonna appeal to the "chin scratcher" contingent more. If I'd not heard either artist before and you told me that the latter was the song by Russell it wouldn't surprise me an awful lot. So it's interesting to think how the backstories and backcatalogues might play a role in changing the status and reception of such tunes.

(Actually i think this chin scratcher" vs "dance fan dichotomy is a bit bogus in this regard: fact is, a lot of dance music fans are chin-scratchers a lot of the time. Probably a lot more dance music fans have checked out Russell on account of his current reputation than non-dancing chin scratchers, and these are the same dance music fans who may have only heard of Cowley in pasing if at all. Not all people into dance music are obsessed with gay post-disco and suspicious of rockist accreditation certificates!)

Also it's not a case of acceptance (Russell) versus rejection (Cowley) as it is where each artist falls in a process of generalised gentrification - the reputation of old music has a lot in common with property values actually. Cowley is being gentrified as we speak, this thread is a very small part of it, but it has yet to occur to the same extent of with the same momentum as for Russell, and obviously all the reasons people have listed go a long way towards explaining this

Tim F, Monday, 20 August 2007 22:20 (sixteen years ago) link

does patrick adams stand a chance??

deej, Monday, 20 August 2007 22:41 (sixteen years ago) link

Patrick Adams is totally under-rated as well.

Dance, Dance, Dance, by Marta Acuna is my favorite disco track ever.

Display Name, Monday, 20 August 2007 22:43 (sixteen years ago) link

to clarify on tim's point tho ... when i think 'cowley' i'm not thinking of his obscure solo stuff here, i'm thinking about the appreciation dance fans might have for certain tracks that they don't per se identify with 'cowley' - but that still counts, i think!

deej, Monday, 20 August 2007 22:44 (sixteen years ago) link

i.e. sylvester or what have you, stuff that is part of the dance canon even if its only folks reading the 12" labels that realize 'cowley' is directly responsible

deej, Monday, 20 August 2007 22:45 (sixteen years ago) link

Man, I wish it wasn't so gauche to ask about YSIs, but since I'm coming from that chin-stroking world (I like Arthur Russell AND have a beard), but have been enjoying more and more the gay disco music (much to my father's horror— I think he believes it'll make me go homo or something), and have never heard of this Cowley guy... Can someone at least point me in the right direction? I'll do some crate digging the next time I get a chance, but what should I be looking for on SLSK until I can buy it for real?

I eat cannibals, Monday, 20 August 2007 23:48 (sixteen years ago) link

Point taken Deej, but it's precisely that side of Cowley that wouldn't be revived by Soul Jazz or whoever. I can even see the liner notes now, briefly praising Cowley's work for Sylvester as being good for music of its type, before going on to say that the REAL DEAL is his solo work with all the weird sci-fi sleeves.

Never mind that "I Need Somebody To Love Tonight" is one of the eeriest disco tracks I've heard (although Sylvester's own vocals are a huge part of this).

Tim F, Monday, 20 August 2007 23:56 (sixteen years ago) link

see the 1st post in this thread, and follow the discogs links.

A quick five are:
Menergy
Sea Hunt
Technological World
Hills Of Katmandu(Crowley Remix)
Get A Little

Display Name, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 00:00 (sixteen years ago) link

ok yeah i think i agree in that case ... so its basically an issue of marketing?

deej, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 00:15 (sixteen years ago) link

'sea hunt' sounded so great on that 'one night in berlin' record from a year ago

deej, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 00:16 (sixteen years ago) link

I can even see the liner notes now, briefly praising Cowley's work for Sylvester as being good for music of its type, before going on to say that the REAL DEAL is his solo work with all the weird sci-fi sleeves.
they couldn't possibly take that as a credible position! cowley seems may more straight down the line 'dance music' than russell, they don't have the 'problem' of the solo + cello or avant-garde stuff to deal with. cowley is similar to moroder: big hits ('mighty real', 'i feel love') that everybody knows but wouldn't necessarily connect with the producer, and then the more obscure stuff ('sea hunt'/'mindwarp'/'menergy', 'e=mc2'/'utopia'/etc).

haitch, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 00:47 (sixteen years ago) link

Ha ha the key word in your post is "credible" haitch.

Tim F, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 00:49 (sixteen years ago) link

Can someone at least point me in the right direction?

I found this weird Cowley bootleg last year and put it on my blog, it's a "tribute" megamix that someone in Europe made after he died. I just re-uploaded it if anyone wants to check it. I don't know the names of everything that's on it, there's really no info on the sleeve -- I recognize Megatron Man, Menergy, some Sylvester stuff. the biggest hits from the gay disco side of things.

http://threethreefourfive.blogspot.com/2006/06/megamix.html

dmr, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 01:04 (sixteen years ago) link

oh wow. stirmonster to thread?

geeta, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 01:27 (sixteen years ago) link

DMR— Cool, thanks. I just want to find out if I want to find out more.

I eat cannibals, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 01:29 (sixteen years ago) link

uh hi dere i'm listening to 'invasion' right now... soo good! but i am a chin-stroker who doesn't know anything about dance music. once i hear it consider it gentrified. :(

strgn, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 01:34 (sixteen years ago) link

also here's a clip of the betty botox version of voodoo if you want a rough idea of what Indoor Life sounds like. (does Cowley have other records like that or is it the only one?)

http://www.igetrvng.com/shop_12_02.html
http://www.igetrvng.com/Voodoo1.mp3

dmr, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 01:47 (sixteen years ago) link

it's weird that this stuff (hi-NRG in general i guess, but cowley in particular) is ignored like it is, a bunch of the classic italo trax seem to have a much higher profile now despite being quite similar. did hi-NRG get much play in all those mythologised new york clubs like the garage? because everything from that scene has been comped and re-evaluated to an extent, there doesn't seem like there's any lost classics from that era now.

haitch, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 01:49 (sixteen years ago) link

I think Patrick Adams has a higher profile than Cowley does because cosmic heads and even hip-hop types like the P. Adams moves (I've been hearing and seeing the "Patrick Adams" name-drop quite a bit ... btw, are all disco producers named Patrick completely bad in the azz!?)

Cowley, however, lives in the big gay disco ghetto (although I hear it's being gentrified ... lovely).

And I cosign on Sylvester's "I Need Somebody to love tonight." Shit gets me extra moist at 108 beats per minute (there's more to Cowley than NRG, dammit!).

Romeo Jones, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 03:06 (sixteen years ago) link

About these chin-scratchers. (Great thread of course -- someone create a fancy box set like the 1981 one I.M. did.)

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 03:10 (sixteen years ago) link

a hi-nrg revival probably is next, but in gay circles, and pretty mainstream ones at that, it never really died did it? don't most big american cities still have the hi-nrg station to the left of the dial?

i don't know much about cowley aside from sylvester, but suspect i would like him based on comments here. i had severed heads on yesterday because of the poll thread and i kept thinking that a bronski beat severed heads hybrid would be the best thing ever.

russell's dance tracks are the ones that get me the most, but i adore world of echo.

tricky, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 03:51 (sixteen years ago) link

does patrick adams stand a chance??

at the risk of being that guy, I was interviewing Al-P from MSTRKRFT back when they were touring with John Digweed back in the spring, and when I asked him what he was listening to at the moment he said "Basically a lot of disco - especially Patrick Adams". Then he started singing "In The Bush".

So basically Adams is DEFINITELY going to get canonized by the hipsterati sooner or later, not that that's a bad thing of course.

jamescobo, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 03:53 (sixteen years ago) link

Man, I'm hoping that dood from MSTRKRFT will listen to A LOT MORE Patrick Adams

Romeo Jones, Tuesday, 21 August 2007 04:14 (sixteen years ago) link

two from 85 on youtube...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvy_RxdHS5g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0DiTPOMOi4

87...more clearly housey...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWySnzccch8

dan selzer, Sunday, 5 July 2009 06:47 (fourteen years ago) link

ALWAYS loved this, I think everyone in NY has this record but thinks its too cheesy. Singing about Zanzibar...more "club" music, with electro/hip-hop influences, then strictly disco or proto house or whatever.

http://www.traxsource.com/index.php?act=show&fc=tpage&cr=titles&cv=21293

dan selzer, Sunday, 5 July 2009 06:49 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't think there is really a current scene for this stuff, and there really aren't producers making it that I am aware of. It just seems like a small vein of records that fit in between the italo or electro section of a set and the early house stuff. I don't really see this stuff as an extension of disco.

I kind of see it as disco-> italo-> italo meets boogie and electro(proto-house)-> early house-> acid

Six years is a long time in dance music. There is about as much remove as late 90's Purposemaker clones and the mnml scene.

your original display name is still visible (Display Name), Sunday, 5 July 2009 07:15 (fourteen years ago) link

i mean some of this music goes back way further than 85, check this from 82:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4jRoDC9Lks

and this from 83:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1laS_fqcow

this stuff is clearly related to disco first and foremost, i guess 80's r&b secondly. all synthed out, but really it has nothing to do with italo and predates most things considered "electro". some of tony humphries early stuff is like this, too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnpjN3DUvk8

that's 82 as well. to me, this stuff is definitely disco, kind of an extension of shep pettibone and larry levan shit that goes back to 81 with lots of electronics and even some dubbyness.

pipecock, Sunday, 5 July 2009 08:29 (fourteen years ago) link

Sea Hunt. Wow.

― Violent In Design (Masonic Boom), Friday, July 3, 2009 10:09 AM (2 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

speaking of gentrification ...

zzz (deej), Sunday, 5 July 2009 09:00 (fourteen years ago) link

OHMIGOD A GURL HAS DISCOVERED YOUR MUSIC, RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!

Violent In Design (Masonic Boom), Sunday, 5 July 2009 09:47 (fourteen years ago) link

these guys definitely spanned the gap of that period judging from the 82 stuff you posted and the 85 stuff I posted. I wouldn't reference italo like it's such a bad word, remember italo means Change as much as it means Tarzan Boy and I think a lot of that synthesizer boogie is closely related to those aspects of italo.

dan selzer, Sunday, 5 July 2009 15:14 (fourteen years ago) link

i think i like every song mentioned above.. i wish more people would listen to all of this stuff.

when are we gonna get to hear soundclips of that unreleased patrick cowley thing that is about to come out? anybody now?

speculator, Sunday, 5 July 2009 15:59 (fourteen years ago) link

I like the direction this thread is going. All this sort of stuff was getting played regularly at the Negroclash parties in NYC when they were happening a few years back. I'm with Speculator in that I wish more people would latch onto it (again). Such a fun sound.

Marcus Brody Ta-Dow! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Sunday, 5 July 2009 16:11 (fourteen years ago) link

Galaxie party in NYC...

On July 10th, Honey Soundsystem will be visiting us from San Francisco following their impressive discovery of unreleased Patrick Cowley tracks stored precariously in the basement of Megatone Records' HQ for decades! Check out these exclusive never-before-released tracks and many more when the Honey boys visit us from SF.

dan selzer, Sunday, 5 July 2009 16:21 (fourteen years ago) link

o ya, i've got tons of this kinda stuff. some of it is too cheesy. this is one of the ones i've been stoked on lately though. definitely fits right in the middle of disco, boogie, italo and house

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiavEVcBifw

(jaxon) ( .) ( .) (jaxon), Sunday, 5 July 2009 18:18 (fourteen years ago) link

picked this up today:

http://www.discogs.com/Patrick-Cowley-They-Came-At-Night/release/188724

niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice

pipecock, Thursday, 9 July 2009 02:28 (fourteen years ago) link

[img=http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/110/l_3a5b7e7239364d02b0373bff3e1269ab.jpg]i once designed a flyer to look like a patrick cowley record[/img]

A. Roddick City (jaxon), Thursday, 9 July 2009 04:06 (fourteen years ago) link

fuck u ilx code

A. Roddick City (jaxon), Thursday, 9 July 2009 04:06 (fourteen years ago) link

funny, i was once on a flyer designed to look like a patrick cowley record/img

dan selzer, Thursday, 9 July 2009 05:16 (fourteen years ago) link

oh, the good ol' days

A. Roddick City (jaxon), Thursday, 9 July 2009 05:41 (fourteen years ago) link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I0ML2KAcIA

I'm not sure if this is proto-house or proto-freestyle but its my jam.

Ecchi Sketch (Siah Alan), Thursday, 9 July 2009 05:46 (fourteen years ago) link

dan selzer, if you taught a class, wrote a book, or started a cult I would be there. coherent, intelligent, non-chin-scratching perspective on dance music is hard to find.

sciolism, Thursday, 9 July 2009 10:20 (fourteen years ago) link

thanks, I like when people say nice things about me.

I have that Phyllis Nelson record, as well as another called "Don't Stop the Train", which is definitely HI-NRG. "I Like You" is pretty HI-NRG as well.

This is my jam...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnRJjuW7y3M

dan selzer, Thursday, 9 July 2009 12:21 (fourteen years ago) link

And I did teach a class in dance music once. Oberlin College had a thing called Exco (experimental college), where students could teach classes for 2 or 3 credits and take student-taught classes for 1 or 2 credits. I taught a class on David Cronenberg films and when I was a senior I took a class on Pink Floyd that was all first year students who'd smoke pot then listen to Dark Side. I did a Syd Barrett lecture though. But earlier on all these sports dudes had a "Techno" class where they'd take drugs and listen to bad techno circa 1994. One year I took the class with Morgan Geist and a woman we called "Rave Feve-y Dogg" for reasons I'm not sure I remember. Anyway, that year and the following year when I didn't take the class but knew the folks who ran it, I lectured on the history of electronic dance music. I remember playing Cluster's Zuckerziet and Silver Apples and Eno's synth bassline in Virginia Plain and Kraftwerk and Parliament and I Feel Love and Moroder and Man Parrish. If only I knew then what I know now...

dan selzer, Thursday, 9 July 2009 12:30 (fourteen years ago) link

Speaking of Morgan Geist, isn't he doing some remix of an unreleased Patrick Cowley project?

http://www.residentadvisor.net/news.aspx?id=10626

uncannydan, Thursday, 9 July 2009 13:38 (fourteen years ago) link

thats what I hear.

dan selzer, Thursday, 9 July 2009 14:42 (fourteen years ago) link

so i've got one song on a comp (billie's "nobody's business"), but where else should i begin with jarvis and/or regisford productions?

psychgawsple, Friday, 10 July 2009 04:32 (fourteen years ago) link

their shit together is what's up: Visual's "Somehow Someway" and especially "The Music Got Me" on Prelude, Tony Cook And The Party People "On The Floor (Rock-It)" on Halfmoon, dub mixes of Janice Christie's "One Love" and Choclette's "East Street Beat" on Supertronics. Timmy Regisford did dope mixes on Touch "Without You" on Supertronics and Colonel Abrams' "I'm Not Gonna Let". those are some of my favorites.

pipecock, Friday, 10 July 2009 08:08 (fourteen years ago) link

more details on that unreleased cowley project: this will be fantastic, right?

willem, Friday, 17 July 2009 08:00 (fourteen years ago) link

pretty exciting. this makes it sound like it's got some of his Indoor Life stuff: will be a shock for Patrick Cowley's fans. It's way beyond his Hi NRG Disco stuff - a post-punk, new wave, experimental Cowley.

bong hitzvah (jaxon), Friday, 17 July 2009 18:26 (fourteen years ago) link

this crowley guy sounds interesting, nice thread!

I'm a Matt...I'm a DC (M@tt He1ges0n), Friday, 17 July 2009 18:54 (fourteen years ago) link

i really like that stuff too, i've been calling it garage or proto-house. i would say, besides boyd jarvis/timmy regisford/tony humphreys/eric matthews, the other guy who did lots of big records in that vein is paul simpson.

should this stuff have a thread of its own?

one time, Saturday, 18 July 2009 03:05 (fourteen years ago) link

I just shoehorn this stuff into boogie. I kind of like the ambiguity of the genre, I don't think there is any constructive reason for segregating this stuff from the rest of the post-disco R&B stuff.

This is my favorite Paul Simpson joint:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cijl3Y1HQNE

I used to play the hell out of this record at my old residency. Streetwise Records was a goldmine of wonderful music.

your original display name is still visible (Display Name), Saturday, 18 July 2009 04:01 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah but stuff like serious intention "you don't know" is pretty much house, no? doesn't seem too much like r&b or boogie to me. either way, it's great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcW5c6nG5PY

one time, Saturday, 18 July 2009 04:13 (fourteen years ago) link

Paul Simpson did this great edit of Patti Labelle's Shy. Its sooo cheesy but so great.

Ecchi Sketch, Saturday, 18 July 2009 05:43 (fourteen years ago) link

Considering that its a dub mix of a Gamble and Huff penned song, I guess its pretty much house too.

Ecchi Sketch, Saturday, 18 July 2009 05:49 (fourteen years ago) link

And you also get stuff like Set It Off By Strafe, Music Is The Answer by Colonel Abrahms or All Played Out by L.I.F.E. or any other number of records that have the jack clap pattern before 1986. The ambiguity of black American DJ records between disco and house is the whole beauty of that period of music. As much as I love the old Chicago stuff, I love the fact that the Roland drum machine at 120-127bpm formula didn't apply yet.

If you REALLY need to put a label on this stuff so that you can pay inflated prices at curated record stores, go for it. When I play this stuff it gets mixed into all the other DJ records of the era and I don't need it to be in strict category. The idea of playing this stuff exclusively as a genre seems to miss the point of these records. You should be playing them with disco, italo, electro, boogie, classic house Ect. The whole point is that it isn't house yet, it isn't the formula that will dominate clubland for the next 20+ years. It was an era of flux and it's position within a set should reflect that.

your original display name is still visible (Display Name), Saturday, 18 July 2009 06:03 (fourteen years ago) link

I'm quite happy buying this stuff on the cheap, but I live in a section of the Midwest thats got very little use for dance music from this era (Wisconsin). So I buy everything on the cheap really, if I was in Chicago this stuff would be so much more expensive I wouldn't even bother.

Ecchi Sketch, Saturday, 18 July 2009 06:12 (fourteen years ago) link

one time-- a new thread for this stuff would not be amiss. No one's really talking about Russell or Cowley anymore and there's definitely a lot more to be said. (someone else start it, though, I'm not personally knowledgeable enough to frame it)

sciolism, Saturday, 18 July 2009 06:30 (fourteen years ago) link

i <3 patrick cowley and have a couple of the proto house boogie electro italo tracks mentioned, but can someone curate a ysi? plz? i'll be checking leonardo.

artdamages, Saturday, 18 July 2009 14:58 (fourteen years ago) link

What a weird comparison to even make (the original premise of this thread). . . I don't get the basis of comparison.

Soundslike, Saturday, 18 July 2009 16:31 (fourteen years ago) link

I just went to start a new thread but instead somebody should revive one of these:

The post-disco pre-house clubbing scene

this is the proto-house youtube thread

dan selzer, Saturday, 18 July 2009 16:54 (fourteen years ago) link

i second sciolism, selzer and pappawheelie should get together and write a book/ set up a site/ make a dvd about all the post-disco musics

NI, Sunday, 19 July 2009 13:38 (fourteen years ago) link

selzer and pappawheelie spent a few years trying to educate the masses in disco/post-disco musics and it only ended in drunken fights at 3 am in a williamsburg bar that smelled like cheese.

http://www.myspace.com/caponesbeatclub

dan selzer, Sunday, 19 July 2009 14:50 (fourteen years ago) link

Morgan Geist's "radio show" (the later volumes are more like mixtapes, just music) for the "Red Bull Music Academy" (I don't think I need to point out the irony there) lean pretty heavily on this era. Volume 2 of the series even contains an interview with Steve Knutson of Audika Records, which put out all those great Arthur Russell resissues, so you know you want to listen to that!

"Personal" w/Morgan Geist

Personal w/Morgan Geist

uncannydan, Sunday, 19 July 2009 15:22 (fourteen years ago) link

xpost, ah no way! would have loved to have checked out your night, you've both introduced me, and no doubt many others, to countless awesome songs and genres over the years on here

NI, Sunday, 19 July 2009 20:05 (fourteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...

anyone heard anything from this catholic record yet? ive been hammering indoor life recently so was hoping for something in a similar vein

straightola, Monday, 10 August 2009 22:11 (fourteen years ago) link

one month passes...

streaming on myspace. "i never want to fall in love" goofy - good goofy! "i'll come see you" reminds me a bit of ruth and grauzone. awesome. "soon" is downloadable at rcrd_lbl.

willem, Thursday, 10 September 2009 22:33 (fourteen years ago) link

well. simultaneous thread revive :)

willem, Thursday, 10 September 2009 22:34 (fourteen years ago) link

if by simultaneous you mean 8 minutes before you ;)

jaxon, Thursday, 10 September 2009 22:39 (fourteen years ago) link

:)
(i let those two songs play while i waited to hit "submit post")

willem, Thursday, 10 September 2009 22:45 (fourteen years ago) link

five months pass...

"Dance, Dance, Dance, by Marta Acuna is my favorite disco track ever."

I think I may have listened to this song 5 times on repeat today.
What a beauty. I know I may sound hyperbolic but tonight this seems like the perfect song.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jzRwxdwK90

oscar, Sunday, 21 February 2010 03:35 (fourteen years ago) link


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