"Beyond the Corner": New Miles Davis Box Set

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So this fall we finally get a closer look at my favorite Miles period.

This will be awesome.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 1 March 2007 00:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

Droolsssssssssssssss.

When are they going to release a domestic remaster of Agharta and Pangaea? :|

Alex in SF, Thursday, 1 March 2007 00:25 (7 years ago) Permalink

*head explodes*

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 1 March 2007 00:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'd come up with a fantasy tracklist for this (can't find the ILM thread) but I didn't think they'd go for 6CDs. Nice … hope they don't hyphenate 'Beyond' on the cover though.

I'd read that there was some thrashing over the Miles estate in the wake of the Cellar Door box, so who knows when this thing's coming out.

Brakhage, Thursday, 1 March 2007 00:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

I need this.

The in a silent way... box is amazing, I love hearing the unedited versions of the album tracks. I just got the Bitches Brew one, which is good, though with fewer surprises. I really want the Jack Johnson box. But this one sounds amazing! On The Corner rocks my world!

Moodles, Thursday, 1 March 2007 01:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

When are they going to release a domestic remaster of Agharta and Pangaea? :|

if i'm not mistaken, there's some huge-ass box of 70s live stuff in the works.

Lawrence the Looter, Thursday, 1 March 2007 01:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

I read about this the other day, very anxious! We <3 MILES

Dominique, Thursday, 1 March 2007 01:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

@ Lawrence:

WAHT

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 1 March 2007 02:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

so what's the ilm opinion on Get Up With It?

abanana, Thursday, 1 March 2007 02:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

especially since 2 out of 6 discs worth of time on this box is dedicated to a re-release of every last track of the album master of get up with it

not like I have too much of a problem with hearing 'he loved him madly' and 'rated x' and 'funky tonk' again, but this is going to be another $100 box isn't it

Milton Parker, Thursday, 1 March 2007 02:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, that bothers me too - why should I pay for Get Up With It again?

Hurting 2, Thursday, 1 March 2007 02:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

As for my opinion of it - I like it, but Rated X is the only track that I regularly go back to.

Hurting 2, Thursday, 1 March 2007 02:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

I had the opportunity to buy a decent copy of Get Up with It the other day for 6 dollars, and I didn't because I worried it would skip to much on my sensitive record player. I'm regretting that right now.

Z S, Thursday, 1 March 2007 04:05 (7 years ago) Permalink

Actually Calypso Frelimo is pretty awesome too. In fact the whole thing is pretty good, but as far as electric Miles goes it's not one of my favs outside of Rated X.

Hurting 2, Thursday, 1 March 2007 04:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

Um... If you,ve paid for ANY of these Miles boxes so far, you've bought his albums twice. So shut it.

Stormy Davis, Thursday, 1 March 2007 04:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, but at least the Bitches Brew box didn't combine Bitches Brew and a bunch of stuff from ANOTHER album I already had. Plus the original material sounded so much better on the box.

Hurting 2, Thursday, 1 March 2007 04:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

Also, Get Up With It doesn't seem all that sonically related to On The Corner.

Hurting 2, Thursday, 1 March 2007 04:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

Hmmm.... the Get Up With It Tracks do give me pause. The one thing that keeps me from absolutely loving the Bitches Brew box is that it contains a bunch of material from Big Fun. It would be nice if these sets were more focused around unreleased music.

Moodles, Thursday, 1 March 2007 04:51 (7 years ago) Permalink

I didn't realize they were from Big Fun - I guess that punctures my whole theory.

Hurting 2, Thursday, 1 March 2007 04:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

see, I honestly didn't even know that Get Up With It had even been rereleased on CD. I just checked Amazon.com and, ok, yeah there've been CDs for a while. So I am corrected; I thought this would be new availability of the material (shit, it took me years to find a nice vinyl copy in the 90s). Anyway, despite my real reservations about CDs, the idea of hearing those old 30 minute LP tracks without the necessary compression is intriguing and hopefully this box will be even more of an improvement on the earlier CDs. who knows.

Stormy Davis, Thursday, 1 March 2007 05:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

I just wish they would make up their mind about how they want to re-release material and stick to one format.

Hurting 2, Thursday, 1 March 2007 05:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'll believe this "Live 76" boxed set when I see it. If they can't be arsed to release decent sounding versions of Agharta and Pangaea separately I don't see why they would bother doing a huge box of 'em. I skeptical about this "Beyond The Corner" too, but the tracklist make it seem more hopeful.

Also "He Loved Him Madly" is awesome and I listen to it all the time. The rest of Get Up With It I have less time for.

Alex in SF, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

According to my publicity contact at Sony, there are no advances ready on this box or anything close to it, and they're very pissed about whoever (they don't know who) it was leaked the track listing.

unperson, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

this looks pretty great. On the Corner is not my favorite electric Miles--cold shit--but still quite fun in its way. "Calpyso Frelimo" rates up there with Jack Johnson in my book, though. This should be interesting, and way too much. But I've found that I get off of almost all the Jack Johnson box, very little of it's boring or unrealized to the point that I can't get up with it.

whisperineddhurt, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:44 (7 years ago) Permalink

I like that -- I'm going to use that phrase more: "I can get up with it."

Hurting 2, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

on the corner = the charles mingus of miles davis releases
/vahid

deej, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

or maybe, the black saint sinner lady of miles davis releases is what i mean

deej, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

now THIS is the one i've been waiting for.

strongohulkington, Thursday, 1 March 2007 16:51 (7 years ago) Permalink

Um, yeah. There's this great story of Herbie Hancock going to Columbia studios and hearing music on the PA and asking the secretary what it was — only to be told it was the On the Corner stuff he himself was on. So, the idea of hearing this before it was edited down in post-production? Kind of crazy — particularly when you realize how radically different stuff like "Shhh/Peaceful" already was three years earlier from the master takes...

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 1 March 2007 21:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

Was that Hancock? That story is in "Miles Beyond" IIRC, but I thought it was someone else.

Alex in SF, Thursday, 1 March 2007 21:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

i think that was Zawinul with Bitches Brew. He didn't like it when they were recording it, but heard it playing at the Columbia offices and asked who it was, to be told it was him!

tylerw, Thursday, 1 March 2007 21:39 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'll believe this "Live 76" boxed set when I see it. If they can't be arsed to release decent sounding versions of Agharta and Pangaea separately I don't see why they would bother doing a huge box of 'em.

well, they spent years and years issuing crappy-sounding versions of kind of blue before getting it right/releasing a box from that era. like all other miles releases on columbia, first you buy the crappy-sounding version, then you buy the slightly-less-crappy sounding version, then you buy the box. after the box is released, individual cds of said box material are released, with bonus tracks. after those have been out for a while, then you buy the "special editions" of the individual cds, with the bonus "newly discovered!" rare concert recording and/or documentary dvd. it's all a rich tapestry.

Lawrence the Looter, Friday, 2 March 2007 03:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

I have a friend, well... a friend of a friend, who worked for Laswell and got to go to Sony to check the vaults in preparation for the Panthalassa set. He said there was an astonishing amount of material there including huge sections that were taped off with signs that said "do not touch". They asked what was in those sections and were told that they were safety copies of the Sony Japan archives and that they (I assume meaning Columbia/Sony) had recorded every gig and rehearsal...

I look forward to this one, and every other scrap they issue.

Like Apple, I don't have to like the company to want the product, and like Apple, thanks, I'll wait 6 months and buy a used copy.

BTW: WTF does [i]this[i/] mean? [i]"on the corner = the charles mingus of miles davis releases"[i/]. Is this recording the big fat psycho misogynist genius of all Miles records? I thought they all were (minus the fat part).

factcheckr, Friday, 2 March 2007 15:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

Haha, brilliant Xgau Consumer Guide imitation/parody up there Edd! (A compliment, whether you think so or not.) All it needed was an A- rating right there at the end.

Myonga Vön Bontee, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:22 (7 years ago) Permalink

xp re: mingus of miles releases (which i amended to 'black saint' of miles releases) I don't think On the Corner is a particularly representative record of what Miles is good at. But its become for many an entry point to the miles catalogue which i don't quite understand (similarly, black saint has become this mingus entry point despite being probably one of his more difficult to 'get into' and being similarly unrepresentative of what mingus does well)

deej, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

"But its become for many an entry point to the miles catalogue which i don't quite understand"

It's his cheapest post-1970 (and one of only two studio) album, it's decidedly rockin' (so it appeals to people who want to get their feet wet in electric Miles) and it has a flashy cover. What's hard to understand?

Alex in SF, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:34 (7 years ago) Permalink

well in the case of the on the corner, i just don't think its that good

this is where the parallel to black saint breaks down, cuz i think that record is great. just not a v. good entry point either.

deej, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:35 (7 years ago) Permalink

the /vahid tag was supposed to imply awkard parallels that make sense to a limited degree

deej, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:36 (7 years ago) Permalink

Well whether you think it is very good or not, I think it's pretty clear why a lot of people use it as jumping off point for that period of Miles (because frankly there aren't a lot of other good options.)

Alex in SF, Friday, 2 March 2007 18:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

You don't think there are a lot of good starting points for Miles?!?

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 2 March 2007 20:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

I can see it as a perfect "entry point"... was kind of the last of his albs I really dug aside from the Pete Cosey solos from the Osaka gigs. And the last one I bought in "real time".

(Nice to see my formatting worked out on my previous post)

factcheckr, Friday, 2 March 2007 20:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

there are lots of good ones! better ones
but whatever i know lots of ppl like 'on the corner' more than me so i will concede any points

deej, Friday, 2 March 2007 20:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

Seriously, IMO dude has an entry point for pretty much any angle: arrangement fiends, funkheads, groove fans, "pretty background tunes" types, etc.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 2 March 2007 20:31 (7 years ago) Permalink

"You don't think there are a lot of good starting points for Miles?!?"

I was speaking of post-72 Miles which yeah I think On The Corner is the cheapest and "easiest" starting point for (even if I probably like almost everything else he released in the same period better.)

Alex in SF, Friday, 2 March 2007 21:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm a massive Miles freak and On the Corner was the one record I never got into. The frantic stereo panning always irritated me.

Brakhage, Friday, 2 March 2007 21:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

Ah see I didn't get the "post-72" from the context. I find your self-paraphrase OTM.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 2 March 2007 21:42 (7 years ago) Permalink

haha, Myonga, I take that as a compliment...I think. am I alone in thinking that On the Corner just doesn't work very well, that it's cynical where the best Miles 'lectric is, I dunno, inclusive and bleak and all that, but not cynical? what I found listening to the Jack Johnson box is that the conception was so terse, pinched, scratchy, rarely expansive (inclusive)? the way all that got edited together seemed to open it up, but the individual pieces came across as less, somehow. and I mean it as a compliment to Davis and Teo and all that the music remains as unsettling and brave as it (didn't) seem(ed) to be back in the day. what other major jazz artist discarded so much and got with funk so well? I ask this in all seriousness--and I mean major jass artist, which doesn't include Herbie Hancock, of whom I am a fan. Has anybody else approached Davis in his '70s project, or is that music truly unique? I give my post a bleedin' B, though, I be a Turkey, shoot me.

whisperineddhurt, Friday, 2 March 2007 21:51 (7 years ago) Permalink

Has anybody else approached Davis in his '70s project, or is that music truly unique? I give my post a bleedin' B, though, I be a Turkey, shoot me.

whisper, nuff respect, but I have no idea what your post means.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Friday, 2 March 2007 21:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

I forget what ILMer it was who pointed out that On The Corner almost sounds like a Can record, but he was massively OTM.

Hurting 2, Saturday, 3 March 2007 00:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

I do remember a discussion about whether or not Miles had been listening to Can before OTC, the consensus was that if he had been we'd know about it because he was "very proud" of his European listening habits.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Saturday, 3 March 2007 00:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

A lot of these sets - all of 'em up through the Jack Johnson set, in fact - have been reissued in cheaper, no-metal-spine packaging. Behold.

unperson, Friday, 9 November 2007 16:42 (6 years ago) Permalink

I'd like to see links to some reviews, or comments here, that go into more detail about the previously unreleased material. With Get Up With It and On The Corner sitting on my shelf, I'm having a hard time psyching myself up to pay the freight. I was put off the In a Silent Way and Bitches Brew boxes by reviews suggesting these collections don't add a whole lot to the Macero-assembled albums. This caveat seems like it might apply even more strongly to On The Corner.

On the other hand, PETE COSEY

Brad C., Friday, 9 November 2007 17:43 (6 years ago) Permalink

It's exactly the other way around, actually. For me, the Jack Johnson and On the Corner boxes have been by far the most satisfying and interesting ones of the lot.

JN$OT, Friday, 9 November 2007 17:48 (6 years ago) Permalink

Also, this review goes into a fair amount of detail concerning the previously unreleased stuff in the box:

http://www.citypaper.com/music/story.asp?id=14562

JN$OT, Friday, 9 November 2007 17:52 (6 years ago) Permalink

I'm only about halfway through disc three of this, but HOLY SHIT. This is much better than the Bitches Brew set, which I wasn't crazy about anyway, and better than the In A Silent Way set, which I was and am crazy about. This really does top everything. And in the right mood, man, it tops EVERYTHING. It's the best music you've ever heard. I have been listening to it since I popped in disc one, and will not likely stop until I have heard it all. Not a lot of things make me sit still for seven hours. This is insanely good. No, really.

I like Matos' review. Thanks for that.

kenan, Sunday, 18 November 2007 01:56 (6 years ago) Permalink

Somebody hook a brotha up.

The Reverend, Sunday, 18 November 2007 02:12 (6 years ago) Permalink

Tall order, brotha... this is a lot of bits to upload. (Checking sizes...) Even at 192, it's about 600 megs.

kenan, Sunday, 18 November 2007 02:17 (6 years ago) Permalink

If you do, I promise not to start any threads or polls for a week.

Oilyrags, Sunday, 18 November 2007 02:21 (6 years ago) Permalink

Aiight... check your mail, both of you.

kenan, Sunday, 18 November 2007 02:33 (6 years ago) Permalink

kenan, I kiss you.

The Reverend, Sunday, 18 November 2007 03:01 (6 years ago) Permalink

Fuck that, I make sweet love to you, in a platonic way, of course.

The Reverend, Sunday, 18 November 2007 03:02 (6 years ago) Permalink

gis for platonic sweet love

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 18 November 2007 03:04 (6 years ago) Permalink

That looks about right.

The Reverend, Sunday, 18 November 2007 03:06 (6 years ago) Permalink

Please, both of you, do not bother.

I'm finding that Matos' characterization of disc 4 as "something to stretch out on" is half true -- the first 32-minute track is still pretty hot, but "He Loved Him Madly" is 32 minutes of just niiiice. Not melodic, oh no, never that, but niiiice. Then "Maiysha" at the start of disc 5 eases you back in, before it all goes wonderfully pear-shaped again.

kenan, Sunday, 18 November 2007 03:10 (6 years ago) Permalink

This is offtopic, but, "pear-shaped" is an idiom I've read on ilx a bit that I don't really understand. Could you take a stab at explaining what you mean by it?

Oilyrags, Sunday, 18 November 2007 03:14 (6 years ago) Permalink

listening now. only on disc 1 so far. my local store had a 20% off sale and this was sitting there beckoning alluringly. I had only come in to get the new Robert Wyatt but I am probably never going to see this for $96 again. hell yeah the sax on "Rated X" is rockin me.

sleeve, Sunday, 18 November 2007 03:16 (6 years ago) Permalink

"pear-shaped" is an idiom I've read on ilx a bit that I don't really understand

Britishers use it to mean "not right," and usually "very wrong," like... I dunno... the plan in The Italian Job. But it's an evocative phrase by itself, I think. Not round, not perfect, a bit... pear-shaped. Just a little off. Doesn't have to be a bad thing.

kenan, Sunday, 18 November 2007 03:22 (6 years ago) Permalink

I've heard it on Doctor Who and never known what the hell it meant. Thanks dude.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 18 November 2007 03:29 (6 years ago) Permalink

further comments on disc 1...

wow that wasn't Rated X but I swear it was similar. Wasn't there an extended single CD of OTC that had some of these longer pieces like the "Helen Butte/Mr Freedom X" unedited master?

sleeve, Sunday, 18 November 2007 03:39 (6 years ago) Permalink

5 months pass...

cranking this right now. geez louise, some of this stuff is INTENSE.

tylerw, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 18:43 (6 years ago) Permalink

And some of this stuff MEANDERS.

tylerw, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 18:48 (6 years ago) Permalink

I guess that's what I paid for.

tylerw, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 18:49 (6 years ago) Permalink

I dunno, I don't hear it as meandering...certainly it meanders a fuck of a lot less than parts of The Complete Bitches Brew Sessions ("Guinivere" fucking defines interminable).

Sara Sara Sara, Wednesday, 30 April 2008 19:13 (6 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

cranking this right now. geez louise, some of this stuff is INTENSE.

― tylerw, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:43 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

And some of this stuff MEANDERS.

― tylerw, Wednesday, April 30, 2008 6:48 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 29 April 2012 12:23 (2 years ago) Permalink

Given that this period of Miles is probably top 2 or 3 all time in terms of importance to my own development as a musician and listener, I'm not entirely sure how I never bought this.

Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 30 April 2012 04:33 (2 years ago) Permalink

maybe because it's crazy expensive?
anyway, yeah, i love hearing the uncut jams from the various bands from this era. but in the end, i think it makes me appreciate the albums even more. teo macero and miles were really onto something incredible when they constructed the LPs.

tylerw, Monday, 30 April 2012 13:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

Ordered this used for $85 just a coupla weeks ago, looking forward to seeing it in the mailbox anyday now (except it probably won't fit)!

Race Against Rockism (Myonga Vön Bontee), Monday, 30 April 2012 23:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

9 months pass...

Where do people come out on Teo Macero?Listening to this box on Spotify, I'm struck by how little editing there actually seems to have been on On the Corner. Listening to the "unedited master" of the title cut, you're almost ten minutes in before you hear something different from the edited master (McLaughlin soloing, organ noodling, Miles with the quiet introduction when the band brings it down a bit). As a college student when I first heard this stuff, I had been under the impression that Teo was splicing whole rhythm sections under solos from different tracks. What seems to be revealed here is that far more of the magic happened live in the studio (or at an overdub session) -- certainly compared to Bitches Brew anyway, where Teo was looping whole phrases to create melodies and the like.

I'd be interested to see Bob Belden's "tribute" to Teo Macero in the box. Given how disparaging Bill Laswell has been about Teo's work, and Macero's displeasure with these "complete sessions" boxes being released at all, it makes me wonder if Belden's essay was a substantive rebuttal or more a matter of politics.

Naive Teen Idol, Friday, 15 February 2013 23:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

Didn't know Laswell was disparaging about Teo's work!

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Friday, 15 February 2013 23:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

Where do people come out on Teo Macero?Listening to this box on Spotify, I'm struck by how little editing there actually seems to have been on On the Corner. Listening to the "unedited master" of the title cut, you're almost ten minutes in before you hear something different from the edited master

huh? there's an edit right at the beginning. The album version actually starts at about 0:47 of the unedited master, but it's an alternate mix with the solo turned down. you can hear the bleed faintly in the background. Then at about 0:32 on the album version you can hear the edit where it goes back to what's actually the beginning of the unedited master (about 3 secs in to be precise).

wk, Saturday, 16 February 2013 00:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

http://open.spotify.com/album/4ORrWT9p5FH1jhTCATKEcj

Brad C., Saturday, 16 February 2013 01:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

huh? there's an edit right at the beginning. The album version actually starts at about 0:47 of the unedited master, but it's an alternate mix with the solo turned down. you can hear the bleed faintly in the background. Then at about 0:32 on the album version you can hear the edit where it goes back to what's actually the beginning of the unedited master (about 3 secs in to be precise).

Correct you are. The groove seems to obscure them a bit. I'm still stunned when I look at Bob Belden's explanations of the edits to "Pharaoh's Dance" -- in some ways, I was disappointed by that box, because I'd have loved to have heard the actual working tapes of those tracks, which I suspect may not have sounded much like the final product at all.

Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 16 February 2013 05:29 (1 year ago) Permalink

Also, on the Bitches Brew box, they used a digital remix instead of the original analog masters. This means that they re-created every edit. I haven't noticed any differences myself, but there are those that swear some of the edits are a hair off -- or missing altogether.

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Saturday, 16 February 2013 05:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

I never even heard the edits on pharaoh's dance before I knew they were there but it's funny how clumsy some of them are.

wk, Saturday, 16 February 2013 05:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

funny in the sense that it's interesting how easy edits are to overlook if you're not listening for them

wk, Saturday, 16 February 2013 05:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yeah, totally. I never realized how many edits I missed in In A Silent Way until I heard the unedited takes on the box.

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Saturday, 16 February 2013 06:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yeah, "Shhh/Peaceful" was basically looped from a handful of material culled from a 19-minute track and overdubbed from what I can tell.

"Pharaoh's Dance" on the box is missing loops and so forth. I'm not entirely sure how you assemble a box of that magnitude and miss stuff like that.

I would just love to hear what the Bitches Brew stuff would've sounded like had they done a Jack Johnson-esque box with the working tapes. Obviously it wouldn't have been nearly as listenable -- but far more educational.

Naive Teen Idol, Saturday, 16 February 2013 18:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

Listening to the unedited "Shhh/Peaceful," I was floored when that organ chord happened: it's only there for a couple of seconds near the end, but Macero was brilliant/astute enough to hear it as the perfect starting point.

It's baffling why they didn't use the original mix for the BB box; even the 40th Anniversary edition has the digital remix on the CDs (but the original mix on the LPs). I have no idea what their logic/justification for that was.

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Saturday, 16 February 2013 19:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

Obvious guess would be that either the master tapes were missing or damaged.

Naive Teen Idol, Sunday, 17 February 2013 19:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

I wondered about that too, especially there were no such issues (iirc) with any of Miles' other (and older) records/reissues.

But this piece by Paul Tingen more-or-less answers the question(s).

(although it sounds like Sony insisted on a remix and "oh, the tapes are no good" was a convenient -- and not easily verifiable -- justification)

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Sunday, 17 February 2013 20:36 (1 year ago) Permalink

Re-reading passages from the Tingen book now (good book, btw) I love how Paul Buckmaster came in with all these über-"heavy" charts to create some Stockhausen/Sly Stone hybrid only to be in the middle of describing the drum fills he'd composed for the band when Miles cut him off and was like, "Yeah, play that" -- blowing off the rest of Buckmaster's charts and leaving the final groove on "On the Corner" almost comically unfunky.

I still find most of Teo's edits on this one kind of unnecessary btw.

Naive Teen Idol, Sunday, 17 February 2013 23:10 (1 year ago) Permalink

Miles, like Teo, was an incredible genius at editing. "Shhh/Peaceful," in its unedited form, prominently features Josef Zawinul's theme, but Miles and/or Teo knew exactly what to leave on the cutting room floor. I think part of Miles' genius, cruel though it might have been at times, was to say, "That thing you labored on for hours/days/weeks/months? Yeah, we don't need that."

And with On The Corner, I think Teo did some brilliant work. I don't think his edits are unnecessary; I think they add focus and cohesion.

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Monday, 18 February 2013 00:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

live albums from this era are great, so all of the editing is technically unnecessary, right? It's not like Macero's editing was saving recordings that were otherwise unlistenable in their raw state. He just added that 10% extra structure that makes things a little more interesting. And the opening of On the Corner is a great example of that because the album version begins in a much more exciting way than the unedited track. It's funny because the supposedly unedited track actually sounds like you're dropping into the middle of something that's already in progress while the edited version sounds like a proper beginning.

wk, Monday, 18 February 2013 01:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

I guess I would agree with that. The editing is generally just a lot more subtle on OTC than on Bitches Brew, where whole compositions are rendered from the end of Teo's razor blade. Generally, tho, OTC doesn't really "function" like a composition the same way even BB's cuts did. There are very few variations, the dynamics are considerably reduced and the melody is, "Black Satin" notwithstanding, pretty much nonexistent. As a result, I just feel like Teo's edits tighten it up more than "re-compose" the thing.

Does anyone else think "Bitches Brew" is a thirty-minute "Spinnin' Wheel" variation, btw?

Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 18 February 2013 03:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

the blood sweat and tears song?

wk, Monday, 18 February 2013 06:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

Yup

Naive Teen Idol, Monday, 18 February 2013 13:07 (1 year ago) Permalink

Was flipping through John Szwed's (highly recommended) Miles bio last night, and it says that Miles was indeed consciously riffing on "Spinning Wheel" (as well as one of Betty Davis' demos). So I guess that song's existence is finally justified.

Tarfumes The Escape Goat, Wednesday, 20 February 2013 15:54 (1 year ago) Permalink

< pats self on back>

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 21 February 2013 03:24 (1 year ago) Permalink

(actually, I figure I must've heard that info somewhere before)

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 21 February 2013 03:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

oh yeah, I hear it now. interesting.

wk, Thursday, 21 February 2013 04:30 (1 year ago) Permalink


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