"American Hardcore: The History of American Punk Rock 1980-1986"

I may not be super fond of all of them, but there's no one there who shouldn't be

Obv post-'83 HC isn't very fashionable and people like to say it all sucked, but there is some good stuff from the mid-80s.

comp's looknig good - they manged to pick my fave bad brains, black flag and minor threat tunes.

the book was good - but was ushc really that violent ??? it sure wasn't like that in nz a few years later when i was into it - unless skinheads were in the mix of course . looknig forward to the doco

It could have been a 2-Cder and solved whatever problems I could make up.

This comp seems darn close to ideal to me.

Pick Your King was '83, Kings of Punk '86.

So there.

Eye For An Eye was '84. Animosity '85. They were also on the No Core compilation in '82 (just got this on LP!)

lol hstencil otm.

Missing: The Minutemen, Husker Du, Agnostic Front, SOA, DKs.

Glad to see Flipper, Die Kreuzen, and Middle Class.

x-ref with POX: Your own Hardcore Classics (as in 80's US Punk, not UK dance music)

but was ushc really that violent ???

Two words for you: Black Flag. Hard to tell that story without talking about the violence, whether it was from the audience, cops, or band members.

I dunno about that, the Faith/Void split is widely considered to be a HC highpoint. More people have probably heard that record than SOA's No Policy. Plus, maybe I'm blind, but I don't see The Faith in the comp listing?

Here's a list of who's in the film:
Cast (in order of appearance): Lucky Lehrer (Circle Jerks), Vic Bondi (Articles Of Faith), Joey “Shithead” Keithley (D.O.A.), Keith Morris (Circle Jerks), Angie Serappa (Boston Hardcore scene), Nancy Barile (Boston Hardcore scene), Mike Watt (Minutemen), Dave Markey (filmmaker), Jordan Schwartz (filmmaker), Howard Saunders (Philadelphia promoter), Perry Webb (Culturcide), Ian MacKaye (Minor Threat, Fugazi), Bobby Steele (Undead, Misfits), Greg Hetson (Circle Jerks, Bad Religion), Richard “Crispy” Cranmer (White Cross), Ken Inouye (Marginal Man), Jesse Malin (Heart Attack), Henry Rollins (Black Flag), Jeff Atta (Middle Class), Mike Patton (Middle Class), Chris Foley (SS Decontrol), Dave “Springa” Springs (SS Decontrol), Dicky Barrett (Impact Unit, Mighty Mighty Bosstones), Dave Dictor (Millions Of Dead Cops), Chris Doherty (Gang Green), Brett Gurewitz (Bad Religion, Epitaph Records), Greg Ginn (Black Flag, SST Records), Moby (Vatican Commandos), Sean Taggert (New York Hardcore scene), Jack Grisham (TSOL), Paul Mahern (Zero Boys), Dan Kubinski (Die Kreuzen), Kimm Gardner (CH3), Paul “H.R.” Hudson (Bad Brains), Brian Baker (Minor Threat, Dag Nasty, Bad Religion), Chuck Treece (McRad, Bad Brains), Gary “Dr. Know” Miller (Bad Brains), Flea (Fear, Red Hot Chili Peppers), Steve Soto (Adolescents), Frank Agnew (Adolescents), Casey Royer (Adolescents, D.I.), Curtis Casella (Taang! Records), Tony Cadena (Adolescents), Harley Flanagan (Cro-Mags, Stimulators), Darryl Jenifer (Bad Brains), Jerry Williams (Bad Brains/Beastie Boys, producer), Dave Brockie (Gwar), Alec MacKaye (The Faith), Dante Ferrando (Iron Cross), Dez Cadena (Black Flag, Red Cross), Phil Anselmo (Superjoint Ritual, Pantera), Hank Williams III (Superjoint Ritual), Duff McKagan (The Fartz, Guns N’ Roses, Velvet Revolver), Kira Roessler (Black Flag), George Anthony (Battalion Of Saints), Jack Rabid (The Big Takeover fanzine), Rev. Hank Pierce (roadie), Dave Smalley (DYS, Descendents), Kevin Seconds (7 Seconds), Al Barile (SS Decontrol), Jamie Serappa (SS Decontrol), Christine McCarthy (Boston Hardcore scene), Alec Peters (promoter, manager), Jon Anastas (DYS), Jimmy Gestapo (Murphy’s Law), Vinnie Stigma (Agnostic Front), Alvin Robertson (Bad Brains roadie), John Joseph (Cro-Mags), Todd Youth (Agnostic Front, Murphy’s Law), Matthew Barney (filmmaker, sculptor), Tommy Stinson (The Replacements), Reed Mullin (Corrosion Of Conformity), Steve DePace (Flipper), Mark Arm (Mr. Epp, Green River, Mudhoney), Bruce Loose (Flipper), Ted Falconi (Flipper), Mike Dean (C.O.C.), Joe Carducci (SST Records), Steve “Mugger” Corbin (Nig-Heist), Greta Brinkman (Wasted Talent, Unseen Force), Brandon Cruz (Dr. Know, Dead Kennedys), Louiche Mayorga (Suicidal Tendencies), Alex Gonzales (LA Death Squad), Edward Colver (photographer), Sean Stern (Youth Brigade), Mark Stern (Youth Brigade), Sal Canzonieri (Electric Frankenstein), Gary Tovar (promoter, Goldenvoice founder), Wino (The Obsessed), Anthony Countey (Bad Brains manager), Sid McCray (original Bad Brains member), Jack Flanagan (The Mob), Winston Smith (graphic artist), Zander Schloss (Circle Jerks)

The Bands:
Adolescents (Orange County, CA), Agnostic Front (New York, NY), Articles Of Faith (Chicago, IL), Bad Brains (Washington, DC/ New York, NY), Bad Religion (San Fernando Valley, CA), Battalion Of Saints (San Diego, CA), Big Boys (Austin, TX), Black Flag (Hermosa Beach, CA), Channel 3 (Orange County, CA), Circle Jerks (Los Angeles, CA), C.O.C. (Corrosion Of Conformity) (Raleigh, NC), Cro-Mags (New York, NY), D.I. (Orange County, CA), Dicks (Austin, TX), Die Kreuzen (Milwaukee, WI), D.O.A. (Vancouver, BC), D.R.I. (Houston, TX), DYS (Boston, MA), The Faith (Washington, DC), Fartz (Seattle, WA), Flipper (San Francisco, CA), The Freeze (Boston, MA), Gang Green (Boston, MA), Gwar (Richmond, VA), Heart Attack (New York, NY), Iron Cross (Washington, DC), Jerry’s Kids (Boston, MA), McRad (Philadelphia, PA), Marginal Man (Washington, DC), MDC (Millions of Dead Cops) (Austin, TX/San Francisco, CA), Middle Class (Orange County, CA), Minor Threat (Washington, DC), Minutemen (San Pedro, CA), The Mob (New York, NY), Mr. Epp (Seattle, WA), Murphy’s Law (New York, NY), Necros (Toledo, OH), Negative Approach (Detroit, MI), Negative FX (Boston, MA), Nig-Heist (Hermosa Beach, CA), Poison Idea (Portland, OR), Really Red (Houston, TX), The Replacements (Minneapolis, MN), Scream (Washington, DC), 7 Seconds (Reno, NV), S.O.A. (Washington, DC), SS Decontrol (Boston, MA), Suicidal Tendencies (Venice, CA), Teen Idles (Washington, DC), TSOL (Orange County, CA), Undead (New York, NY), Unseen Force (Richmond, VA), Vatican Commandos (Darien, CT), Wasted Talent (Harrisburg, PA), Wasted Youth (Venice, CA), White Cross (Richmond, VA), Void (Washington, DC), YDI (Philadelphia, PA), Youth Brigade (Hollywood, CA), Zero Boys (Indianapolis, IN)

Nope, it's Articles Of Faith not The Faith! Although I think Alex MacKaye might have been in the Untouchables?

With the squabbling, maybe Jello (who'd be the one they most wanted to interview) wouldn't give them access, and/or the rest of the band wouldn't allow them to use footage or music if Jello was involved?

They sound like classic hardcore - nothing arty about them.

x-post Good point re: Jello et al.

If you were looking for it. I got a black eye a few times and fractured my wrist. I was sorta looking for it. It was also pretty nerdy- as many Brian Bakers in aviator specs as Henry Rollinses.

well when did the Out of Vogue 7" come out? I don't know who Middle Class were hanging out with or how old they were at the time and I don't have anything, but "Out of Vogue" handy. It sounds sorta close to some Urinals to me though I spose I can hear it sounding more "classic hardcore" ("Nervous Breakdown" say) than arty.

x-post

i realize that this doc (and the book) is focused on 80-86, but someone really needs to do a complete history of late 80's/early 90's HC, especially since that stuff is what paved the way for whats popular today.

I'd like to have seen a few of the more obscure NY bands like Urban Waste or Antidote in there. Or maybe some Nardcore like Ill Repute.

Jello and Stephen Blush, the author of the book itself, hate each other for reasons I forget (but are probably relatively 'public' should you care especially). I can guess that the Misfits are even more of a fucker to license for stuff like this

does the book cover the years leading up to 80 then?

-- Login Name consigliere (c.t.mumme...), October 3rd, 2006.

I actually read an interesting interview with one of the members recently. They were part of the punk scene and he doesn't think they had any impact on the evolution of HC at all - they just played punk super fast and just happened to sound like the HC that came later, some kind of evolutionary anamoly. Why they sound like hardcore has a lot to do with the bass, the fast 'n' hard picking on stuff like "Out of Vogue" or "Insurgence" is very HC.

I'll try to find it and post the link.

i went to a midnight show at the nuart friday (the taking of pelham one two three)

That's cool, the main title is my ringtone!

Looking at that list of bands - which is unbelievably almost 'complete' bar one or two notables already mentioned - I can't believe footage has been under wraps until now.
Having said all that, what a disparate bunch of bands for a so called movement. The stuff that followed this lot was even better
Wot no Nip Drivers?

Here's that Middle Class interview:
http://agonyshorthand.blogspot.com/2006/07/interview-with-mike-atta-from-middle.html

Alright, I take that back. Their later stuff does sound kind of arty - "Introductory Rites" is very Pink Flag-ish.

Did anyone ever interview on film SST photographer Naomi Petersen? Also, there apparently aren't any interviews in this with DC area scene participants/photographers Cynthia Connolly and Sharon Cheslow who put together the Banned in DC photo book.

My favorite music writing of the year: Joe Carducci on SST photographer Naomi Peterson

are you fucking gay? seriously. "expecting a whole lot"? out of hardcore? expectations don't apply, MAN. this isn't a chameleons record or an a.r. kane LP. it's hardcore punk. get real, you fruit. is music more like an accessory bracelet to you than something more cerebral?

xpost

xpost also

Thanks to corey c for reminding me of the shit I hated about the hardcore scene. Too many fucking troglodytes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad49_a54e_A

what other live shows can you see on that box set?

A little too much of this film was dedicated to "LOL we were reprehensible assholes and still kinda think that's cool." The guy who happily describes himself as a rapist is kinda the lamest/grossest thing I've seen in a documentary that's not about Trent Lott since that part of American Pimp where the guy with no car is trying to get some behind a dumpster, and MacKaye trying to act like he can't fathom why white nationalists would "misunderstand" "Guilty of Being White" makes him look way dumber than it's possible for him to be. Flipper are still sweet, though.

yeah dudes that made the movie def. had a hard-on for the macho side of things...pretty pathetic that they totally skip over HUSKER FUCKING DU in favor of spending loads of time on no-talent meatnecks like TSOL just cuz they used to roll deep and kick ass...

too much Boston for my taste too, but the Husker thing really rankles me, it seems like doing a 60s Brit music documentary and skipping over the Kinks or something.

yr right, Ian's thing seems real disengenuous, esp. cuz dude IS smart most of the time...he should just say, "You know what, we were some nerd ass whiteboys in a mostly black city and we felt like outcasts and I was 17 when i wrote that and it's a stupid and kinda racist song, but that's where i was at at the time"....you know, it would be hard to hold it against him if he just said that.

soundtrack is GREAT, as a lot of those bands only had a couple good songs.

still, one thing I found heartwarming was how everyone -- from McKaye to musclebound college wrestler looking dude from Agnostic Front -- LOVED bad brains, and goddamn that live footage...what a band.

but yeah i know a lot of hx dudes in mpls that felt like the whole midwest scene got kinda shit on by this film, esp. considering somewhat not-that-great boston shit got so much play.

black flag and minor threat still rule though.

I've still not seen this. Rapist guy = Jack Grisham?

Can't recall, but that sounds right to me. Also talks about blowing up someone's garage with a pipe bomb and "this girl passed out, so I pissed on her face, so what?"

my favorite part of this thread is where somebody asks jbr "are you fucking gay?"

I don't remember any of this rape stuff at all. I didn't walk out (though was sorely tempted) but I have must have completely tuned out for big chunks.

I watched it on cable and definately tuned out most of, only to wake up once Flipper came on, asking "ooh what's this?"

"soundtrack is GREAT, as a lot of those bands only had a couple good songs."

black flag, bad brains, d.o.a., circle jerks, minor threat, mdc, ssd, void, scream, negative approach, articles of faith, die kreuzen, battalion of saints, 7 seconds, big boys, adolescents, dri, cro-mags, and flipper only had a couple of good songs?

i still want to see this. i liked the book a lot.

i kinda devoured the book like candy, actually.

I wasn't planning to watch more than a few minutes of it, but I was sucked in and got fairly captivated -- mostly by thinking about how a scene that seemed to contain so much idiotic reprehensible moron bullshit could also contain a bunch of incredibly smart non-reprehensible within it, something I find a lot harder to imagine today. Fewer options then, I suppose.

honestly, most of the moron stuff seemed confined to the big cities. l.a., new york, boston. out in the sticks it was more innocent. or more diy. or people were just grateful to hear the music. even if only two people cared.

i'm talking early on. later you would have meathead scenes all over. or no-meat scenes that were pretty dumb.

That was kind of the film's (brief) treatment of the midwestern scene, actually. And you could see it in the show footage, to be honest.

Didn't Jack Grisham run for public office?

i saw connecticut go from this:

yay!!!

http://www.76percent.com/gallery/images/band+friends1.jpg

to this:

we kill you now!

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n116/blawk359/Band%20PR%20Photos/hatebreed.jpg

my favorite part of this thread is where somebody asks jbr "are you fucking gay?"

Yes! Especially where the mook ends his rant by hailing hardcore for being so cerebral. Nope, no contradiction there.

911 tracks to listen to!!!

http://www.americanhardcorebook.com/punk24/

Penelope Spheeris is gonna be talking at the AFI in suburban DC with Jeff Krulik, Heavy Metal Parking Lot director, tonight between showing of Decline of Western Civ, the punk years and the metal years ones