Production of "I feel love" by Summer/Moroder

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Hi!

I am currently researching the production of "I feel love" by Donna Summer and Giorgio Moroder. I already emailed the master himself, and he was kind enough to send me a weird graphic, but that is not very instructive.

I am particularily interested in the delay effect that he uses to "double" the synth riff, and the other means with which he creates "metrical dissonances", e.g. the echo effects. I wonder how they were produced and I am interested in all other production info or trivia.

I did some reserach in the sources that are available in my library and the internet, but I think there must be more to it.

Any hints to sources etc?

Tilman

Tilman Baumgaertel (mail at tilmanbaumgaertel.net), Thursday, 21 September 2006 14:25 (seventeen years ago) link

He sent you a weird graphic? Can we see it?!?

Am I Re-elected Yet? (Dada), Thursday, 21 September 2006 14:28 (seventeen years ago) link

one bassline on one channel, the other on another. one being 8 notes to the bar, the other 16 notes. that sort of thing?

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Thursday, 21 September 2006 14:33 (seventeen years ago) link

IIRC it was one four-note bassline on the left channel with delayed echo on the right.

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Thursday, 21 September 2006 14:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Ugh, here's looking forward to Hongro going on and on again about the supposed drum machine (aka time machine) used on this song...

and PappaWheelie, author of Have You Ever Been Poxy Fuled? (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 21 September 2006 14:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Also, insight into early Moroder electronic techniques abound on the 1975 Einzelganger album

and PappaWheelie, author of Have You Ever Been Poxy Fuled? (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 21 September 2006 14:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Yes, that sort of thing. I have figured out that he dublciated the synth line. But: how did he do it? And: how did he achieve these other echo effects?

As far as the graphic is concerned, I have to figure out if I can post graphics here...

Tilman

Tilman Baumgaertel (mail at tilmanbaumgaertel.net), Thursday, 21 September 2006 14:54 (seventeen years ago) link

"dublicated" - best typo ever!

(to post an image: if you've uploaded the file, type the url and put an i before http in your post)

willem -- (willem), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:00 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm trying not to get too excited about a "wierd graphic" emailed personally from Giorgio Morodoer!

geoff (gcannon), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:26 (seventeen years ago) link

As far as the graphic is concerned, I have to figure out if I can post graphics here..

Upload it to www.photobucket.com

This will give you a link

Come back here and type and "i" (w/o quotes of course) before pasting the link here, no spaces

and PappaWheelie, author of Have You Ever Been Poxy Fuled? (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:31 (seventeen years ago) link

Here you go:

http://www.thing.de/tilman/i%20feel%20love.jpg

Explains everything, doesnt it?

This is his email reply:

"Dear Mr. Tilman
this is the only way i can help you

saluti
Giorgio Moroder"

T.

Tilman Baumgaertel (mail at tilmanbaumgaertel.net), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:41 (seventeen years ago) link

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 that's my day made right there

geoff (gcannon), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:42 (seventeen years ago) link

omg i need to switch from my mono hifi to my stereo

a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:44 (seventeen years ago) link

i was listening and couldn't tell the difference

a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:45 (seventeen years ago) link

So Marcello was right.

DJ'ing this track out and mixing in one headphone has proven this to be the case also

and PappaWheelie, author of Have You Ever Been Poxy Fuled? (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:47 (seventeen years ago) link

"this is the only way I can help you"

The man is God.

the dow nut industrial average dead joe mama besser (donut), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:50 (seventeen years ago) link

i am going to past gm's graphic on top of my mixer and i shall follow those instructions until the end of time.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:50 (seventeen years ago) link

"past" = "post," which i will do in the present and the future, but not the past, because i didn't know!

fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 21 September 2006 15:51 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah, graphic seems to say everything (or, I'd say he delayed the synth line by an amount of time equaling one 16th note, and placed that delay in the opposite channel as the original...hence, synth line sounds like a pattern of 16th notes instead of just 8th notes...pic is much simpler!)

Dominique (dleone), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:15 (seventeen years ago) link

btw, try listening to just the delayed channel -- everything sounds "off", because the synth melody never lines up right on the drum beat

Dominique (dleone), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:16 (seventeen years ago) link

btw, try listening to just the delayed channel -- everything sounds "off", because the synth melody never lines up right on the drum beat

This is what I meant by

DJ'ing this track out and mixing in one headphone has proven this to be the case also

You have to make sure you've got the left earphone on to mix it properly

and PappaWheelie, author of Have You Ever Been Poxy Fuled? (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:19 (seventeen years ago) link

I predict that graphic will be the cover of many techno 12"s in the next month, and then all these artists will bicker over who used it first.

the dow nut industrial average dead joe mama besser (donut), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:20 (seventeen years ago) link

simplicity. throbbing gristle follwed suit with adrenalin. (well, not quite but follows similar priciples.

i feel love is one of my all time favourite records ever. i blame my sister. she played it rather a lot when it came out.

frenchbloke (frenchbloke), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:25 (seventeen years ago) link

oh that sounds awful

xpost

a name means a lot just by itself (lfam), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:26 (seventeen years ago) link

You have to make sure you've got the left earphone on to mix it properly

or mix on the snare!

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:39 (seventeen years ago) link

like you've ever DJ'd...

and PappaWheelie, author of Have You Ever Been Poxy Fuled? (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:42 (seventeen years ago) link

Love Saves the Day has a part where they talk with Moroder about this. He gives an anecdote that Donna Summer was dancing to it in a club, probably next to a speaker that was carrying the right channel, and came back to Moroder saying "You know, something is wrong with this recording!" Moroder told her "I know what's wrong." "[the record] did well all the same."

grady (grady), Thursday, 21 September 2006 16:48 (seventeen years ago) link

He used the same trick on "Chase," from Midnight Express Either song on headphones = instant headache.

Dan Heilman (The Deacon), Thursday, 21 September 2006 17:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Ugh, here's looking forward to Hongro going on and on again about the supposed drum machine (aka time machine) used on this song...

Drum machine? He produced the "drums" using noise-wave on a synth, didn't he? At least they sound that way. :)

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 21 September 2006 18:21 (seventeen years ago) link

The snare and the hi-hat are synthesised, yes. The kick is a tape loop of a couple of bars of actual bass drum, played by engineer Keith Forsey.

Palomino (Palomino), Thursday, 21 September 2006 20:38 (seventeen years ago) link

Glad we rehashed this, complete w/ revisions

and PappaWheelie, author of Have You Ever Been Poxy Fuled? (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 21 September 2006 20:41 (seventeen years ago) link

But "Let's Groove", while retaining the EW&F horn charts and vocal ensemble stuff, is totally New Wave-d out, with the drum machines, vocoders and all.

You mean, "I Feel Love" was not disco?

-- Geir Hongro (geirhon...), June 15th, 2005.

You mean, "I Feel Love" was not disco

I Feel Love has neither drum machines, nor vocoders.

-- PappaWheelie (pappawheeli...), June 15th, 2005.

Drum machines, kind of, yes. And certainly lots of synths.

-- Geir Hongro (geirhon...), June 15th, 2005.

and PappaWheelie, author of Have You Ever Been Poxy Fuled? (PappaWheelie 2), Thursday, 21 September 2006 20:58 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, depends on your definition, but I would say the synth drums on "I Feel Love" are closer to a drum machine than real drums. Only - like lots of "drums" on Kraftwerk's 70s songs, they are neither.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Thursday, 21 September 2006 22:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Moroder said something about the drums in Love Saves the Day i'll check when i get home.

grady (grady), Thursday, 21 September 2006 22:44 (seventeen years ago) link

That picture (and note) is awesome.

Alex in SF (Alex in SF), Thursday, 21 September 2006 22:44 (seventeen years ago) link

This remark about the tape loops is interesting. It seems that Moroder was really into this idea, to base his music on completely regular metres - the "beat of the machines". On the cover of "From here to eterny - and back" he goes on and on, about how all of the music on this record has been synchronized with machines - digital, that is.

So anyway, any more information on the use of tape loops in the production of "I feel love"? Or any source for this info?

I am asking all this, because I am writing a book on loops, by the way, and "I feel love" will be subject of the final chapter, on which I am currently working...

Tilman Baumgaertel (mail at tilmanbaumgaertel.net), Friday, 22 September 2006 02:03 (seventeen years ago) link

I dunno, I don't see it that way...loop to me always implies sample, not repeating sequenced patterns, and while I Feel Love may have used a tape loop to get that kick drum to repeat, it's not really a part of the song the way music based on loops like post-sampler musics would be.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 22 September 2006 03:09 (seventeen years ago) link

I noticed this right away. Stevie Wonder did the same thing with the moog keyboard line in "Living for the City." It always sounded really cool when listening to just the left channel.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Friday, 22 September 2006 04:51 (seventeen years ago) link

I went back and checked the passage in Love Saves the Day:

In a break with protocol, the producer composed the backing track in advance of the melody, developing a bass line that, due to the technilogical limits of the Moog, comprised a short sequence of notes. "It was very difficult to work because the oscillators didn't have quartz to keep the frequency steady, and so it was always out of tune." Moroder introduced a degree of variety by altering the key at regular intervals, although finding a synthesized sound that resembled a drum was only partially achievable. "We managed to create a snare and a hi-hat, but we couldn't find a punchy enough bass drum. Eventually we just did an overdub."

...and then it moves on to talk about the left/right thing.

grady (grady), Friday, 22 September 2006 06:19 (seventeen years ago) link

...so, pretty much what Palomino said upthread, i guess.

grady (grady), Friday, 22 September 2006 06:22 (seventeen years ago) link

I can only see a little red cross, and no graphic. Booo.

Buffalo Stan (Buffalo Stan), Friday, 22 September 2006 08:47 (seventeen years ago) link

yes, someone plz repost moroder.jpg

Fetchboy (Felcher), Friday, 22 September 2006 18:16 (seventeen years ago) link

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/ilxalbums/howtomakeifeellove.jpg

jed_ (jed), Friday, 22 September 2006 18:22 (seventeen years ago) link

ty

Fetchboy (Felcher), Friday, 22 September 2006 18:40 (seventeen years ago) link

Dan, I think I'm lost on your point.

Tape loops were one of two sampling methods used in Hip-Hop before samplers became readily available (the other being turntables, obv).

Steve Ett was known to do it (Beastie Boys' Rhyming & Stealing, Public Enemy's Public Enemy Number 1, etc.).

I'm I misunderstanding?

and PappaWheelie, author of Have You Ever Been Poxy Fuled? (PappaWheelie 2), Friday, 22 September 2006 18:57 (seventeen years ago) link

But when discussing the effect of "loops" on the music in hip-hop you're talking about it's relationship to the source material, of what's being looped, some classic break or something, it becomes a discussion about both appropriation and the minimalist repetition of a phrase. You can write a book about that. People have. But using a tape loop to get a studio recorded kick drum to repeat would hardly be worth a chapter.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 23 September 2006 03:43 (seventeen years ago) link

six years pass...

I hope that graphic makes it into every Encyclopedia of Symbology and at least one radio telescope transmission into space.

Elvis Telecom, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 21:34 (ten years ago) link

I'm with that. I'm amazed/amused at how that took off online after I posted it -- already reblogged by Matt Fraction and Wil Wheaton!

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 21 May 2013 21:40 (ten years ago) link


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