System of a Down Nu Metal Sh*te or Armenian Rock Heroes

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This band have had a mixed review (including some flak in FT, but I think their unique enough to break away from being lumped in with Korn etc.. any thoughts ?..

― JB, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Well if they are nu-metal then they're by far the best in their genre. I especially liked the first album but I haven't heard the new one. I heard it wasn't as good. Definitely far better than Fred Durst's bunch of whining whiteboys.

― dog latin, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

New album is excellent, more eastern style hooks, and Darren malkiens playing is faultless. plus the lead singer is awesome.

― JB, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Blimey has FT talked about them? All I know about them is that Maura likes them and she knows her metal, though this might make them fantastic (eg Andrew WK) or rubbish (no names mentioned heh)

― Tom, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

SOAD and the Deftones are the best of the current crop of modern-rock bands, by far. SOAD are fantastic at quick time changes, layered riffs and nice staccato vox. If you enjoy Refused, definitely check out SOAD. That same sort of ambitious aggression.

― Yancey, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

System of a Down has its moments; they also pad their albums with filler. They're hit and miss, and they've released nothing that suggests they're going to add anything new to the mix. They're far beyond the Limp Bizkit's of the world, but isn't every band? SOAD certainly aren't artists in the sense that Tool are, and they're certainly not innovators. They do have the whole stop-start rhythm thing down to a tee, but will they do something new with it in the long run? I'm doubting they have a 'Pisni Iz the Smiths' in them.

― Tim DiGravina, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I don't think FT reviewed them as such but mentioned them in the same sentence as NickelBack (deep breath) which is quite tragic.

I agree, White Pony is a class album and have you heard Shimmy on SOAD Toxicity ?, it has hard thrash then middle eastern sounds followed by this quirky jazz thing. Mental!.

― JB, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

their singles are fucking great (especially "Sugar" and "Chop Suey!") and a friend recently put a half dozen tracks on a mix for me and i'm just addicted to it now. the lyrics are very bland, but the singer makes them work with his delivery, and the rock is so incredibly heavy and over-the-top, but in a really loose, bouncy way that I daresay reminds me a little of the Minutemen. i may never break down and buy an album, but they're pretty much the only thing i can stand on US hard rock radio right

― al, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Best American rock/metal bands of the moment: System Of A Down, Tool, The Deftones. Everyone else is unnecessary.

― Dan Perry, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Dan that should be:

Best (high profile) American rock/metal bands of the moment: System Of A Down, Tool, The Deftones. Everyone else is unnecessary.

There are many creative bands in the US underground..away from MTV and playlist radio.. Cave In, Isis, Maudlin of the Well, Dillinger Escape Plan, Drowningman, Narcissus, Snapcase, Taken, Converge, Candiria, Zao, Poison The Well and the mighty soon to be gone.. Botch.

― DJ Martian, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I agree with Dan's list. Of course, that doesn't mean I listen to them.

― Lindsey B, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I think Tool and the Deftones are junk, but I like System of a Down a lot (based on the two songs I've heard; that end bit to "Toxicity" should go on forever). I'd say they and Slipknot are the best nu metal bands.

― Kris, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Martian: I thought "high-profile" was implicit in the bands I picked to be on that list.

Kris: I cannot go there with you on Slipknot. I don't really know why, because in theory I should love them. Whenever I hear one of their songs, though, I change the channel as quickly as I can. *shrug*

― Dan Perry, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Martian,

" There are many creative bands in the US underground..away from MTV and playlist radio.. Cave In, Isis, Maudlin of the Well, Dillinger Escape Plan, Drowningman, Narcissus, Snapcase, Taken, Converge, Candiria, Zao, Poison The Well and the mighty soon to be gone.. Botch. "

Are there some good compilations of this stuff?

― 9, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

They're far beyond the Limp Bizkit's of the world, but isn't every band?

Um, have you ever heard Puddle of Mudd?

― Clarke B., Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Did we lump them in with Nickelback? Blimey. I mean they might be worse for all I know but I'm sure they're different. This is why as I keep saying we need someone to write about rock who actually likes it.

― Tom, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

xtal,

You might want to try out the Bad Music For Bad People compilation - it features folks like Isis and Converge, along w/ other heavy New England shenanigans, from all walks of punk- rock / metal life. Other than that, you should probably check out the Hydrahead, Relapse and Escape Artist labels for info (and sound clips).

If you're even remotely interested in this stuff, you can't go wrong with The Dillinger Escape Plan's _Calculating Infinity_, Isis' _Celestial_, Converge's _Jane Doe_, or Neurosis' _Enemy of the Sun_. (How'd DJ Martian miss NEUROSIS? They're old school, sure, but, geez.) (Dot-com the band names for even more info, IF you have a Shockwave-compliant PC.)

PS - Tom, Maura is OTM re: System of a Down, and not in the bad way. (I'm not sure if they're as, ahem, GOOD as Andrew WK, though.)

PPS - Mr. Finney did a Nickelback / System / Incubus grouping on his website a wee while ago. I think Pete is the FT/NYLPM offender.

― Daver, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Deftones' White Pony is, for me, the best mainstream "heavy rock"(or whatever ya like)album to come out in quite a few years. it just soars above everything else in that awful scene they're lumped in with. even 'nu-metal'-ish sounding tracks like "Korea" have a certain quality that put em in their own class....definitely classic

― matt, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I heard them on Marc and Lard and my first reaction (like their's) was crikey, this is shite. Then I heard it again and found it quite intriguing, like a metal version of the Incredible String Band, which BTW is a good thing. I don't know if I could cope with a whole album but the single makes me want to hear more.

― Billy Dods, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Secret to the Deftones' success -- an appreciation of the Cure, the Smiths and Depeche Mode. Pity about the Weezer fetish, though.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

soad are funny.

― di, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

SOAD are good and can (on record Rick Rubin-produced at least) start and stop on a very small dime in a totally cool way with nuts bazouki stuff going on, but DJ Martian is right--Converge are awesome, as are Botch and all the bands he mentioned. Metalcore is often crap but the high-profile records these days (eg Jane Doe, etc) are usually awesome--the marginal stuff is indeed marginal.

― adam, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Yep I should have included Neurosis - Through Silver In Blood (1996) is an album I rate highly and last year's album is a grower too (and I should have mentioned Will Haven.)

Lambgoat.com is an excellent website to keep uptodate with the creative spectrum of the rock US underground .. noisecore/ metalcore/ experi-Metal.

― DJ Martian, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

They make interesting-sounding records, which is more than the other bands of their ilk I've heard are capable of.

I like the abruptness of "Chop Suey", and the stop-start element.

― Robin Carmody, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

On the video for "Chop Suey", the combination of the overlapping screaming sections with the bandmembers ripping through eachother's bodies actually frightens me a bit.

― Tim, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

"metalcore" has got to be the lamest name for a genre evah!!

― mark s, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

That being said though there's instrumentation (god I hate that word) on both their singles to make me understand where Billy's coming from with the ISB comparison.

― Robin Carmody, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Tim... SOAD ...frightens me a bit - have you seen this week's front cover of the NME System of A Down - you should have seen the expression on my newsagents face this morning - staring at the front cover - intrigued and shocked ! - however it will never match Skinny Puppy's front cover of the Melody Maker - back in 1987 ! that was well warped !

― DJ Martian, Wednesday, 20 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Tom, Puddle of Mudd are very much retro-grunge rockers. The scales they use are SOOOOO unbelievably 90s - minor pentatonics with major thirds. The way on the chorus of that one song he says "Would you take it all away/ would you show me everything" (where "take" and "show" are minor thirds), then, the 90s clincher: "Would you SHOVE it in my face" ("shove" is a major third - dude!), and of fucking course he says "fay-haaaace" like the fifth generation Vedder wannabe he is. Plus he looks like a rapist.

― Clarke B., Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

the lyrics are very bland

Link, he come to town Come to save the Princess Zelda Ganon took her away Now the children don't play But they will when link saves the day Hallelujah!

Now Link, fill up your hearts So you can shoot your sword with power And when you're feeling all down The fairy will come around So you'll be brave in your decisive hour

Now Link has saved the day Put Ganon in his grave So now Zelda is free And now our hero shall be Link! I think your name shall go down into history.

― Kris, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

'Plus he looks like a rapist'

Amazing, somebody remembers 'Buffalo Bill'! (The obscure Dabney Coleman sitcom vehicle)

― dave q, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Robin the ISB link was threefold, a. The instrumentation partly. b. The stop/start, multipart aspect to their songs and c. Very melodic, and I'm sure they'll hate this but quite poppy.

― Billy Dods, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

From the thread it looks like the general opinion is that SOAD are doing something different at least. Think they're playing Brixton academy a week today.. anyone know who's supporting that ?.

As for Puddle of Mudd, very 90's and as for the lyrics "I love the way you smack my ass" hmmm just can' get on with that somwhow..

― JB, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

So it IS SOAD that did the Link/Zelda song. THANKS KRIS! :-) :-)

They still sound a bit silly to me, but I'm told they are v serious indeed. which is even funnier.

― Alan Trewartha, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Novelty act.

― Dan I., Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

SOAD are quite possibly the silliest nu-metal act around. And wasn't all that time sig stuff done by (early) Helmet and other Amphetamine Reptile bands in the early 90s?

― Braces Tower, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Plus why is arsing about with time signatures so good anyway? I mean I'm not saying it's bad to mix things up but a lot of people on this thread are just pointing out what they do - Armenian instrumentation, time signatures etc. etc. - as if these things must be a de facto good in a rock band.

― Tom, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

that toxicity song is absolutely hilarious, is this intentional?

― chris, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Well the Choppy style in the time signatures may have been done before and I agree that just because its Armenian etc, doesn't mean its good. but it is .. Punchy , high impact riffs work really well. and I think that some of the songs are meant to be funny, check out the guitarist he's very mischeivous.

― JB, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

What's so toxic about Glendale? I can't take that song seriously, either. Haven't heard anything else. I like their look.

― Arthur, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

JB, I do believe they're playing w/ the Dillinger Escape Plan, so that promises to be a wicked good METALCORE time. (God, that is lame.)

"Time signatures" can be a hindrance as much as a boon (cf. Soundgarden, who probably would've been served better if they just stuck to 4/4 times, those tricky bastards). Non-4/4 sigs mixed with METALCORE moves (that heavy, terse distortion; double-time drumming; bowel-loosening screams) is, in a world of turgid, straight-forward, thunk-thunk-thunk stuff, startling. It stands out. This isn't too different from the soft / LOUD "dynamics" Nirvana et. al. brought to alt.rock in the 90s - it might seem gimmicky (cf. early Mogwai), but in the hands of the right folks, any gimmick sounds good.

Really, SOAD has a lot of "gimmicks" (the careening vocal acrobatics, the occasional European folk music nod, etc.), but they're not heavily abused and implemented simply for the sake of the gimmick.

Also, they're fun to listen to. The first song on their album is about the US prison system (and inequalities therein). Where a group like Rage would badger listeners with the injustices of it all, SOAD has a little wink-wink nudge-nudge good time with it all - this all reaches a peak when a statistic is spit out and punctuated with a mighty hardcore-esque yawp. The Minuteman ref. made earlier is right on - just as Watt & D. Boon offered their socialist rhetoric in rapid- fire fun funky fashion, SOAD tempers the cloying aspects of their political ramblings in scatter-brained metallic tunes.

BTW, "Toxicity" is a bit much, and I'm really surprised it's a single, as it's probably the dullest song on the album (and much duller outside the album's context).

― Daver, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

It's not playing with time signatures or ethno-fusion elements that are so good about SOAD, it's how their kitchen-sink approach sounds so whimsical and imaginitive and unstudied, almost like looney tunes metal or something. The covers of "Snowblind" and "The Metro" I just d/led from Audiogalaxy are bonkers!

― Kris, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I like System of a Down, too. Their singer is really good. I'd never get an album though I don't think. I keep trying to remember the one I really hate. Oh yeah - Static X and Mudvayne - they SUCK

― Tracer hand, Thursday, 21 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

fyi: that widely mislabelled "princess zellllda!" track is in fact Mr. Bungle.

some good points made about why they're fun as hell to listen to, and why they're not exactly great. i agree that time signature toying is overrated (although i take issue with the Soundgarden nod; i think they mostly made really good, understated use of it), it appeals to me as a drummer, and as someone who loves to be frequently confused and disoriented by music. ach, if i wasn't about to leave for a week i'd start a time signatures thread...someone remind me when i get back, or wait til then to start one, plz.

search: the last 30 seconds of "Soil", which make my jaw drop in disbelief every time..i'd laugh if it didn't rock me so damn hard. i'm pretty sure that someday soon that track is going to be the demise of the speakers on my boombox.

― al, Friday, 22 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I just read that NME interview with them, the only thing I like about it is the pic of Serj on the cover. What happened to NME for Gods sake!?, whenever they interview anyone its sounds like a headmaster chastising some school kid for being naughty. ( could see that as the NME being the reasonsable rational side trying to challenge the so called "rebellious" and "insane" images of bands) but I think they go too far. It seems like they have a persoanl crusade to denounce anything remotely New and Metal and call it Nu Metal.

And then they go and Hype the Strokes for weeks on end ...!!! work that out!!.

― JB, Friday, 22 March 2002 01:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

9 months pass...

just to let you know, that Zelda cover is neither SoaD nor Mr Bungle. It's a group called the Rabbit Joint. proof: http://remix.overclocked.org/detailmix.php?mixid=OCR00022

― WC, Tuesday, 21 January 2003 19:16 (10 years ago) Permalink

Vocalist looks, and occasionally sounds, like Jim Croce. Classic!

― matt riedl (veal), Wednesday, 22 January 2003 00:59 (10 years ago) Permalink

9 years pass...

(Dot-com the band names for even more info, IF you have a Shockwave-compliant PC.)

― los blue jeans, Wednesday, 8 August 2012 03:56 (9 months ago) Permalink

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