The Cure: Classic or Dud?

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Omar raised this question in the "Why are you here?" thread. I put it forth to you all. Were Robert Smith and his ever-changing band musical giants or giant whiners?

Dan Perry, Monday, 26 March 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink


, Monday, 26 March 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink


Tom, Monday, 26 March 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Dan, thanks for taking the load of my back. ;) So yeah Dud of course. Classic case of crap voice. The music is nothing special. Occasional decent single like 'A Forrest' but for the rest, it's Fat Bob innit? But I'm interested in how Ned is going to explain to us the appeal of The Cure (no, really!).

Omar, Monday, 26 March 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Sorry Tom? I didn't quite hear that. Classic, anyway. I don't claim to be their biggest fan, but listening to things like the Boys Don't Cry and Disintegration albums, the good stuff outweighs the duller moments quite comfortably.

Ally C, Monday, 26 March 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Absolutely classic in almost every conceivable way. The effortless switches from pop-punk squalling to moody atmospherics to venomous pathos to synth-pop typified by their output from '79 through '83 are impressive enough, but the fact that they went on to create pop masterpieces like _The Head On The Door_, _Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me_ and _Wish_ while retaining enough of their darkness to produce _Disintegration_ and _Bloodflowers_ makes them an essential band of the 80's and 90's. Even their lesser efforts have worthy moments (ie, "Want", "Treasure", "Jupiter Crash", "Trap", and "Gone!" from _Wild Mood Swings_, "Shake Dog Shake", "Piggy In The Mirror", "The Top" from _The Top_). And their remix album is pure money.

Anything to add, Ned?

Dan Perry, Monday, 26 March 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Classic, I 'spose. Not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but _Disintegration_ is very close indeed (overblown rock histrionics done flawlessly; luckily Smith doesn't whine on it much). Funny how so many of the criticisms of the band you hear refer to the concept of "Fat Bob"; in fact I'd say a lot of the attitudes towards British bands and artists on ILM seem to be heavily influenced by the media's portrayal of them.

Tim, Monday, 26 March 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

The Cure represented the finest of what the Euro art rock had to offer during the 80s. They were more majestic than Depeche Mode and less metallic than the cult. Classic in my book

Luptune Pitman, Monday, 26 March 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

Forgive I'm relatively new to this forum, I have a hard time with these polar extremes: ('classic'versus'dud'). In the case of the Cure, I couldn't say either term applies (although one could certainly tag them to individual Cure albums). Like many bands cited around here, the Cure have changed styles in as many albums, playing everything from funereal dirges through spritely, radio-friendly pop ditties and much inbetween. I'm not saying they're a "something for eveyone" band, but musically, they've been hard to pin-down. The one strike against them, however (beyond their tonsorial problems) would be Robert's inimitably distinctive (is that a repetitious statement? like "luminous glow" or "alien outworlder") voice, which is so firmly rooted in their 80's heyday. Even if the band were to put out a radically avant-garde album of the most cutting-edge styles and sounds conceivable, the second Robert opened his mouth and let out his signature wobbly warble, it'd be the old "oh, it's the Cure again." And if you can't get beyond his voice, then there's no point in ever purchasing a Cure album, regardless of era and/or particular incarnation. That said, I think they're a marvellously diverse singles band, but I could certainly see why some would avoid them like the plauge (ho ho, pardon the pun, Camus fans). Sorry, I'll shut up now. - Alex in NYC

Alex in NYC, Monday, 26 March 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

classic. 'charlotte sometimes' is one of my favourite songs ever. each record up to and including disintegration is worth owning and even the one after disintegration is not horrible. i have no interest in them now but robert smith's guitar sound is far more influential than he gets credit for. without robert smith there would likely not be a roy montgomery, at least not in his current guise and that would be a devastating tragedy at least for myself.

keith, Monday, 26 March 2001 00:00 (sixteen years ago) Permalink

What seems to predomine here is "I'm not actively into them NOW, but I spent the first half of my teens with the Cure on my walkman". At least I did. I believe this means classic.

Simon, Tuesday, 27 March 2001 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Re: classic or dud polarisation.

The idea is to encourage people to be forthright in their opinion but it's not a vote or anything. It's a catchier way of saying "what do you think of this band?"


(PS: Dud. A couple of the singles are nice musically, even very good, but they have Smith's horrible smeared moan over the top of them. He sounds like a fourteen-year-old with a splinter in his toe: there's something wheedling about his voice which makes me want to smack him and tell him to get a grip rather than empathise with him.)

Tom, Tuesday, 27 March 2001 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Classic. Part of my yoof, you see. I've whiled away many an unhappy evening in the company of 'Faith' and 'Seventeen Seconds'!

Seriously.. though it seems the norm to slag 'em off these days, it's amazing just how much good stuff they have done. 'Boy's Don't Cry'/'3 Imaginary Boys' is a great debut, whichever version you have. Scratchy wired glum-pop. In fact it's all classic up to 'The Top', their first major clunker.

'Head on the Door' is great pop. 'Kiss Me X3' is also great pop ('Just Like Heaven'), except where they try too hard to make great pop and fail ('Hot, Hot, Hot'). 'Disintegration' is their last great album. But not pop. No problem.

My last encounter with The Cure was 'Wild Mood Swings'. I swung my copy back from whence it came - Record and Tape Exchange. Still, 'Galore' sums up the later years nicely.

Anyway I like old Bob, a pop man at heart even in his gloomiest moments.

Dr. C, Tuesday, 27 March 2001 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I think I've been asked for at least twice in this thread already. ;-)

Classic. And if you disagree with me I'll shove all twenty or so CDRs of rare and odd stuff I have of theirs down your throat and kill you. *proceeds to light candles to huge _Disintegration_ poster in room*

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 27 March 2001 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Classique. They have enough great tunes and came up with some pretty original sounds. I like how they continually evolve, even if some of their evolution has produced some crap music. I could still listen to "Jumping Someone Else's Train" repeatedly after all these years. I heard some of their last record and it was really bad though. And kill that "Friday I'm in Love" dung, boys! But for the most part, great stuff.

Tim Baier, Tuesday, 27 March 2001 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Classic, though their most recent stuff sucks.

The Cure are a band who, like Depeche Mode and a number of others of that ilk, should have just hung it up on December 31, 1989. Their glory days were in the 1980s, Disintegration should have been their last album. It would have been a perfect ending. Instead, they chose to put out three subpar releases in the 1990s. While Bloodflowers was a definite improvement over Wild Mood Swings (did *anyone* like that album?) and Wish (which came out at the peak of my Cure fandom and still disappointed me), it still wasn't close to the material they released during the 1980s.

Yeah, some of their stuff is whiny and pretentious. But I think they manage to pull it off reasonably well, and I think the whininess and the pretentiousness will make them staples of every sad-sack high school kid for the next thirty years, whether they continue to release new albums or not. (And hopefully they won't, judging from the poor quality of their most recent albums--I think that the more bad stuff they release, the less "legendary" they'll become.)

By the way, I *was* a teenage goth girl. I was also an early-20s goth girl. I own a velvet and lace cape and little pointy boots and black lipstick. Heh.

Nanette, Wednesday, 28 March 2001 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Nanette, I'd argue that _Wish_ is a very underrated album. Its mood is radically different from _Disintegration_, which is one thing that I think threw people off when it came out. I, for one, really dig the snarlier tone of "Open", "Cut", "FTEOTDGS", and "End" and their juxtaposition with more contemplative "Apart", "Trust", and "To Wish Impossible Things". _Wish_ also has "High", which I consider to be the last truly great pop song that the Cure did.

_Wild Mood Swings_ is more problematic. It's a very erratic album and contains a couple of songs that never should have seen the light of day ("Mint Car", "Return"). However, it also contains the absolutely marvelous "The 13th", "Want", "Gone!" and "Jupiter Crash". Some judicious editing (and swapping some album tracks for b-sides) would make this a much better album.

For me, _Bloodflowers_ compares very well to their 80's output. It seems that the group got back into a good songwriting groove for this album, which is particularly evident on "Out Of This World", "The Loudest Sound", "The Last Day Of Summer", "Bloodflowers", and "Watching Me Fall" (Cure cliches and all). The album has a strong sense of flow and there are no embarrassing attempts to rewrite "Friday I'm In Love". It was a good ending for them, assuming that Robert's latest pronouncements about the band's demise are actually true this time.

There are individual songs I don't like, and _Wild Mood Swings_ is easily my least- favorite of their albums, but I'd be hard-pressed to say that I actively dislike any of the Cure's albums.

Dan Perry, Wednesday, 28 March 2001 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

one month passes...
I'm in sympathy with the way that the 'classic' brigade have articulated that they love the band even though they can see their sillinesses, repetitions and limitations. Possibly a lot of pop love is of this kind.

the pinefox, Saturday, 28 April 2001 00:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

one year passes...
The Cure are damned by having so many annoying fans.

They have many good tunes. However, they have many bad ones, viz "Friday I'm In Love".

Still, at their best they show an impressive ability to make both poppy goth jumpathons and total doomfests.

DV, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Dud. Possibly something worthwhile beyond Smith's vocals, but I can't get past them.

DeRayMi, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I've had a love/hate relationship with The Cure that had long since given way to indifference. but recently I've listened again to Robert Smith's 1983 collaboration album with Steve Severin - The Glove is great! (probably like how I'd rather listen to the Andy Partridge solo album Take Away/Lure Of Salvage than most XTC.)

as with many Cure detractors, Bob's voice and self-pity usually get to me. still have fond memories of Seventeen Seconds and Faith but I also enjoy some later stuff where twisted humour, all of Pornography, or tenderness, "The Upstairs Room" and "Birdmadgirl", balance out the self-loathing and sappiness.

the Laurence Tolhurst abuse didn't help Robert Smith's case (and John McGeoch was a better Banshee).

Paul, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink


Paul, Friday, 26 July 2002 00:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

The Cure are fucking appalling. As someone else already keenly observed - a classic case of having a fucking awful voice. I mean I don't mind some of the musicianship but fatboy Smith is such a twat. Really.

I had a girlfriend once who was into these boys hard and she used to play is it 'Pictures of You' (?) over and over and over (a sort of pining for a lost love I think; not me, incidentally). Anyway, it used to bore the hell out of me, not to mention what felt like a large hole in my brain.

The thing is, with the Cure, it's like the Manic Street FUCKING Preachers syndrome - people who like 'em don't just like 'em, they fucking LOVE 'em, and think they're prophets or something. No, they are miserable, half-goths with absolutely nothing to say and even less charisma.

That said, I am admit that I am hardly familiar know their canon, since I can't bear exposure to it for protracated periods.


Roger Fascist, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Actually, I think it's that the boring protestations of those who don't 'get' the music always have to be matched by those who emphatically do. One defines the other ..

Dare, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Not at all, Paul. There's something about The Cure and The Preachers that triggers fervour of a disturbing religiosity in people's heads, well, in my experience anyway. And if you wanna put that to the test, gently question a more avid fan and watch them twist like they was shackled to the cross.

Hmm, having said that, I do get riled when someone fails to 'get' my favourite bands and indulges in the kind of mindless attack I have already posted against The Cure. Yet, I feel that certain bands are wont to attract a more dependent following, who hang the band's music like metaphorical rosaries. And I'm not sure that even among my most beloved artists, there are those which I could hold in such equally mindless esteem.

What say you?

Roger fascist, Tuesday, 30 July 2002 00:00 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

two months pass...
If i brooded around and had a aweful voice, would i be as good as the cure, which coincidently, isnt even good to begin with


Hayward, Thursday, 3 October 2002 02:11 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Oddly enough, I've never really sought out their albums; I'm sure I'll get around to it, but I'm pretty sure they'll always be available... Pretty much all of their singles, though, are flat-out amazing - how could they not be classic?

Clarke B., Thursday, 3 October 2002 04:37 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

The albums are SO WORTH IT, Clarke.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 3 October 2002 11:13 (fourteen years ago) Permalink


Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 3 October 2002 23:38 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

hmmmmmmm .............

donna (donna), Friday, 4 October 2002 01:02 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I'm exactly like Clarke. Always loved what I heard, but only own 'Kiss Me Kiss Me Kiss Me'... Last year I told a friend of mine that the reason for this is because I pretty much know that I'll like them and am just 'saving it'. Is this like some weird Cure phenomena?

Kim (Kim), Friday, 4 October 2002 01:39 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I LOVE THE CURE. They fill a niche that no other band does. From the acutely depresso Pornography stuff to the silly dance stuff to the haunting gothy Faith stuff to the blatant sunshine pop... they've done all this convincingly and well. Did they invent the drugged up goofy romantic miserable goth ecstatic giddy thing?

Yet I do wonder how much my own nosatlgia plays a role. I still think Wish is great, despite every. review. ever. written. Maybe if I hadn't listened to it for the 1st time as a teenager travelling thru Europe with schoomates I'd think differently.

Aaron A., Friday, 4 October 2002 03:43 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Where to start, Ned and Dan? I'm thinking _Pornography_, but some of their _Disintegration_-era stuff kills me (esp. "Lovesong").

Also, I really really like the Wolfgang Press song on _Lonely is an Eyesore_, but I've heard their recordings are pretty patchy. Any recommendations there?

Clarke B., Friday, 4 October 2002 05:30 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

In your place I'd start with 17 Seconds, Clarke. It has their greatest song on it, "A Forest" and I find it the darkest and most powerful of their records. A lot of their stuff didn't age too well (even Disintegration), but this record definitely stood the test of time.

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Friday, 4 October 2002 07:03 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I wouldn't go for _Pornography_ first; I think I'd get _Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me_ and the cassette version of _Standing On A Beach_ in order to get the b-sides.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 4 October 2002 11:04 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Classic until "Stranding on a Beach" came out, after which they descended into the depths of self-parody.

TMFTML (TMFTML), Friday, 4 October 2002 17:37 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I kinda saved them also, Kim - owned the two singles compilations for years before actually buying my first proper album (Disintegration) just this year. Though I do like it, it hasn't swayed me into snatching up the others yet. Maybe in another four years I'll get another one.

Vinnie (vprabhu), Friday, 4 October 2002 17:51 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

They fill(ed?) a niche no one else did (which I usually characterize as "Harlequin romance rock") and they did a perfectly accomplished and unique job of it most of the time but it's not one I care to listen to much at all. I can play Pornography maybe a couple times per year and it's sometimes nice to hear the singles on the radio but overall there's not a big connection. And I couldn't imagine sitting through a whole album of stuff like "In Between Days" or "Let's Go to Bed". The singles comp (Staring At the Sea?) is probably as much as I'd need of that. I'd buy Disintegration if I thought I'd ever listen to it. Wish and Wild Mood Swings were awful.

sundar subramanian, Friday, 4 October 2002 18:32 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I honestly cannot comprehend how _Wish_ is AWFUL.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 4 October 2002 18:34 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

the cure were/are one of the best bands for dancing to whilst only wearing underwear...hopefully not by yourself...

g (graysonlane), Friday, 4 October 2002 18:47 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Ok, I'm a liar. I totally forgot that I also had 'Standing on a Beach' on cassette - played it to death. I don't have it anymore though. I think my brother "borrowed" it and never gave it back! Ooooh...that little...

Kim (Kim), Friday, 4 October 2002 20:39 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

I like just like heaven, I'm going to get Kiss me times 3.

jel -- (jel), Friday, 4 October 2002 20:43 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

classic classic classic and why should you not dance to the cure in underwear by yourself! unless you are wearing the underwear out to the goth dance club, of course.

teeny (teeny), Friday, 4 October 2002 20:44 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Have you ever been to a goth dance club? Underwear as outerwear is pretty much de rigeur.

Kim (Kim), Friday, 4 October 2002 20:48 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Clarke, start with Disintegration first, and then try Seventeen Seconds and then Pornography. I've argued elsethread about this already so I won't go into the details here...just click the link, cause there's a lot of other good talk there anyhow.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Friday, 4 October 2002 20:55 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

Pretend that there's a smiley at the end of my last post. I sound like a meanie otherwise.

Kim (Kim), Friday, 4 October 2002 20:57 (fourteen years ago) Permalink

ten months pass...
"And yet Robert Smith - the Chatterton of Crawley - had created if not a wall of sound then a very high hedge of sound, over which he seemed to peer at the world like a boy who couldn't be bothered to ask for his ball back."

the "cure=suburbia" part of Michael Bracewell's England Is Mine is one of the best things ever!

etc, Wednesday, 20 August 2003 08:54 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

"Join the Dots" (B Sides and rarities) is out on October 21st. I presume it'll have the much talked about Cassette b sides from Standing on a Beach on it, but does anyone know that actual tracklisting is?

flowersdie (flowersdie), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 09:05 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Hopefully it'll have the stuff off "curiosity", too. And that soundtrack they did.

Classic, BTW. Again, my mid-teens coincided with Disintegration and I was full-on obsessed for a couple of years. I bought a shedload of albums at Oxfam last year, and a friend and I drove our GF/wives insane by listening, back to back, to 17 Seconds, Faith, Pornography and the Top. Divorce was on the horizon by the end of that evening.

Jim Eaton-Terry (Jim E-T), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 13:04 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

Hopefully it'll have the stuff off "curiosity", too. And that soundtrack they did.

Thing is, there are SO many B-sides and rarities which have officially surfaced that they'd have to put out a box set. As it is, if the remasters that are surfacing next year are going to include bonus discs for each with room for other oddities, then that will partially settle the problem.

Thy Lethal Zen Ned (Ned), Wednesday, 20 August 2003 13:42 (thirteen years ago) Permalink

thanks for the link Ned.

Bee OK, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 02:01 (five months ago) Permalink

Totally going to have to read this book.

Berberian Begins at Home (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 28 September 2016 02:23 (five months ago) Permalink

Lol seems like a genuinely good guy these days.

Austin, Wednesday, 28 September 2016 04:28 (five months ago) Permalink

the cure tickets for the concert in berlin on october 18th sell for 169 €. is that a normal price to see them live these days?

it's the distortion, stupid! (alex in mainhattan), Thursday, 29 September 2016 13:28 (five months ago) Permalink

Not really. Vienna is €66.

heaven parker (anagram), Thursday, 29 September 2016 13:39 (five months ago) Permalink

Whatever I do its never enough..
Pfft tm tm tm tmmm

(Gt hits in the car right now. Alice insisted)

Mark G, Thursday, 29 September 2016 20:23 (five months ago) Permalink

didn't know "Killing an Arab" had been pulled from streaming services

flappy bird, Friday, 30 September 2016 01:45 (five months ago) Permalink

R.I.P. Arab

how's life, Friday, 30 September 2016 10:00 (five months ago) Permalink

It might be called "I'm a stranger" now

Mark G, Friday, 30 September 2016 10:10 (five months ago) Permalink


flappy bird, Friday, 30 September 2016 11:35 (five months ago) Permalink

The single "Killing an Arab" is on Deezer.

it's the distortion, stupid! (alex in mainhattan), Friday, 30 September 2016 21:39 (five months ago) Permalink

l'et's cut the conversation, and g'et out for a bit

reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 30 September 2016 21:57 (five months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

Finished Lol's book - as a Cure fan, I didn't lean anything revelatory but as someone affected by alcoholism in the family, Lol's story was both insightful and heartwarming. And as others have said, he sounds like a genuine good guy. Well done

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Saturday, 5 November 2016 14:26 (four months ago) Permalink

Indeed so.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 5 November 2016 17:21 (four months ago) Permalink

I still haven't read it yet, but based on the incredible feedback it's been getting I'll be picking up a copy ASAP.

Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Sunday, 6 November 2016 19:04 (four months ago) Permalink

I just finished it as well and also really enjoyed it. I thought it was interesting how he refrained from writing anything which could paint others associated with the band in a bad light and instead glossed over some of those incidents with little detail.

Ex Slacker, Monday, 7 November 2016 03:29 (four months ago) Permalink

one month passes...

surprised to see Roger O'Donell slagging Lol's book off. Then again, I always found something a bit smug about Roger

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Friday, 16 December 2016 10:29 (three months ago) Permalink

Maybe he's grouchy because for all those years he had to play Lol's single finger keyboard parts?

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 16 December 2016 15:34 (three months ago) Permalink

What did he actually say?

Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Friday, 16 December 2016 19:23 (three months ago) Permalink

He had a Facebook post about a new book of Cure photos which was recently published and said something along the lines of "if you're looking for a non-fiction book about the Cure" and then "pictures don't lie."

Ex Slacker, Sunday, 18 December 2016 18:39 (three months ago) Permalink

Meh. Lol had been in the band for years before Roger was on the scene, and they were only in The Cure at the same time for a couple of years. Roger's recollections of the making of Disintegration were great, but I'm far more interested in Lol's side. He was there from the beginning up through the golden period. Roger wasn't.

Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Sunday, 18 December 2016 23:10 (three months ago) Permalink

yeah - i guess Roger post implied that the rest of the band thought the material was made up

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Monday, 19 December 2016 11:06 (three months ago) Permalink

Well I mentioned this earlier in my posts about Lol's book -- he doesn't mention Roger at ALL except towards the end, and thus leaves out why/how he was recruited in the first place and his participation in the Disintegration sessions. You can take this as either a sign of Lol's utterly self-obsessed disconnection with the real world at the height of his abuse or as a totally conscious erasure from the record. It is the one serious problem with the book as it stands.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 19 December 2016 14:32 (three months ago) Permalink

I mean, I'm kinda surprised anyone's surprised Roger's nonplussed here! What was expected?

Ned Raggett, Monday, 19 December 2016 14:33 (three months ago) Permalink

Well, Lol's book is a memoir of his time in the band (rather than a history of The Cure) and I think it says a lot how little he seems to remember about the latter years, so no surprise that he wouldn't have much to say about Roger. How is that an issue and how does that taint the book? It's pretty obvious from the book that after the 82-83 reboot of the band, Lol had very little involvement in the creative side of things, hence the focus on addiction in that section. Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if the lawsuit and eventual redemption were a bit embellished in the story.

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Monday, 19 December 2016 20:53 (three months ago) Permalink

Well, Lol's book is a memoir of his time in the band (rather than a history of The Cure) and I think it says a lot how little he seems to remember about the latter years, so no surprise that he wouldn't have much to say about Roger. How is that an issue and how does that taint the book?

Hey, I'm not disagreeing -- my interpretation of choice is the first of the two, that he was that far gone and barely remembers 87 to 89. Again, I say as much well earlier in this thread; this is not a new point I'm trying to make:

But it's very telling to realize that Roger O'Donnell wasn't mentioned *once* during the Kiss Me/Disintegration stretch, and only is mentioned a bit casually near the end. Given he was drafted during the KM release/tour phase to back up Tolhurst and was part of the Disintegration sessions and all that, I can't tell if it's an intentional downplaying by silence on Tolhurst's part or, as I kinda feel is more the case, a kind of admission he was so incredibly out of it that he almost didn't even notice. (O'Donnell for his part kinda confirmed this a few years back via his own memories of the sessions; look for the paragraph that starts: "I think it's pretty much common knowledge how Lol was treated in those days...")

Where it becomes an issue -- and why I'm not surprised Roger's annoyed -- is that the book can be read as Lol saying Roger was not involved at all during those years. not true, especially when Roger was specifically added precisely so they could have a functional keyboard player. Honestly even a short paragraph in the relevant section saying "To give you an idea about how bad things were..." with the basic details would have been enough.

Ned Raggett, Monday, 19 December 2016 21:05 (three months ago) Permalink

two months pass...

Listening to Wish for the first time in ages and 'From the Edge of the Deep Green Sea' is completely bowling me over all over again. Surely one of their best ever tracks.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Friday, 10 March 2017 23:35 (two weeks ago) Permalink


ArchCarrier, Friday, 10 March 2017 23:36 (two weeks ago) Permalink


The burrito of ennui (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Friday, 10 March 2017 23:38 (two weeks ago) Permalink

It makes me wanna scream along to every lyric.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Friday, 10 March 2017 23:41 (two weeks ago) Permalink

not only are the Cure my all-time favorite band, i also voted "From the Edge of the Deep Green Sea" as my number one song in our Cure poll: POLLography: The Cure poll results, ILM artist poll #23

Bee OK, Saturday, 11 March 2017 03:24 (two weeks ago) Permalink

i see it didn't do to well overall:

#67 - From The Edge Of The Deep Green Sea, 165 points, 8 votes, 1 #1 votes

Bee OK, Saturday, 11 March 2017 03:27 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Song's great, but especially those live versions from the era, wow.

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 11 March 2017 04:55 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 11 March 2017 04:57 (two weeks ago) Permalink

All of their finest songs are over 6 minutes long

beamish13, Saturday, 11 March 2017 23:21 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Nope. Entirety of "Standing on a Beach" / "Staring at the Sea" and the highlights of the first six albums utterly refute that. In fact they were pretty much done once they were releasing six minute epics.

attention vampire (MatthewK), Sunday, 12 March 2017 03:34 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Well, actually they were pretty great at both... for every 'Play For Today', there was an equally excellent 'One Hundred Years' or 'Disintegration' ... they could also be not so great at both on occasion, like on 'Bananafishbones' and 'The Same Deep Water As You', to keep it in the limits of pre-1995 Cure.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Sunday, 12 March 2017 12:56 (two weeks ago) Permalink

xxpost Last Cure song I truly loved.

Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Sunday, 12 March 2017 16:56 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I think the last one I loved was 'The Scream' ...

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Sunday, 12 March 2017 22:37 (two weeks ago) Permalink


I feel like the last great Cure songs are all the b-sides from 'Wish'. All good shit: "Halo", "The Big Hand", "This Twilight Garden" and "Play".

I was really excited back in the day by the "Never Enough / Harold and Joe" 12". THAT record showed the Cure ready to take off to totally unexplored territory that would have made Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me look like a conservative dry run. I mean, go back and listen to those two - WTF is that?!?! "Never Enough" just has guitar solo wankery that actually kinda works that they never tried before or ever again.

Instead they were like hey, not hungry anymore, let's keep chasing 'Disintegration'. Boo.

yesca, Monday, 13 March 2017 06:38 (one week ago) Permalink

I notice that "Scared of You" and "A Foolish Arrangement" are conspicuously absent from your Wish b-sides list.

Rachel Luther Queen (DJP), Monday, 13 March 2017 14:17 (one week ago) Permalink

Agree RE: 'Never Enough.' For a long time I had a sort of irrational resistance towards it, but the melting pot nature of the tune is really something to behold. And, obviously, it's one of Simon's shining moments.

Austin, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:26 (one week ago) Permalink

I think in retrospect the Cure, like REM, were one of those bands not necessarily greater than the sum of its parts but, at least during the Boris years, exactly the sum of its parts.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 13 March 2017 14:36 (one week ago) Permalink

TBH I attribute the post-Wish decline mainly to worse production, worse lyrics and worse vocals - ie all on Robert

licorice oratorio (baaderonixx), Monday, 13 March 2017 15:30 (one week ago) Permalink

When they put out Wild Mood Swings, their popularity was easily at its lowest here in the UK. I remember them being on all of the "right" TV shows, but there seemed to be this sense that the game was up.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Monday, 13 March 2017 20:16 (one week ago) Permalink

They just seemed to be another in a line of bands that were popular in the '80s that seemed to be on their way out: U2 (with Pop), Pet Shop Boys (with Bilingual), OMD (with Universal) ... this didn't affect Depeche Mode so much because Gahan had had his smack overdose and the British music press at that point loved to write about "rock'n'roll" things like that.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Monday, 13 March 2017 20:20 (one week ago) Permalink

What's really kind of funny about that (in a dark way) is that Wish contains a rather large number of references to heroin use.

Austin, Monday, 13 March 2017 21:15 (one week ago) Permalink

I never saw PSB as part of that collection of 80's bands. Nor did they, really - if you read their book 'Literally' you'll discover that they were really surprised to be lumped in with "rad" bands like OMD and U2 when they came to States and instead considered themselves more in the lineage of club music and Madonna. Perhaps they faded out of the alternative music view over time but for the global gay community they remained urgent and they still managed to craft a great contemporary dance pop track ever few years or so.

In comparison, U2 and the Cure have basically been inert since the mid 90s, totally comfortable being touring businesses.

yesca, Monday, 13 March 2017 23:52 (one week ago) Permalink

The era surrounding Bilingual was probably the first time I can really remember reading anything negative about the Pet Shop Boys. Of course, it wasn't the end: they've given us Fundamental and Electric and Bilingual itself is actually a great record. At the time, though, they'd been releasing records for over 10 years, so did feel like a veteran band.

Coolio Iglesias (Turrican), Tuesday, 14 March 2017 00:09 (one week ago) Permalink

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.