L.A.M.F. - Take the Taste Test

Anyway, this posting was sparked by a discussion with Stewart Osbourne on the above referenced thread regarding the original mix of Johnny Thunders & The Heartbreakers' L.A.M.F. While long reviled as a nadir of audio fidelity, the issue requires some reexamination methinks.

IMHO the original mix on Track Records is superior to any of the subsequent re-releases (LAMF Revisited, LAMF The Lost '77 Mixes), while Stewart asserts that more than half of the people who heard the orginal mix of L.A.M.F. would "agree that L.A.M.F. sounds horribly and frustratingly muffled."

Since the original mix has been (unfairly) maligned for so long, it's OOP and not readily available. Here's a YSI link to sample a comparison of two tracks from LAMF ("Baby Talk" and "Pirate Love") so you can check for yourself. Yes, the Lost '77 Mixes are "cleaner" - but are they "better"? ILM, cast your vote. Mine: What the fuck happened to the drums?

http://s59.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=3CZ1YXZMEFZS13A4GR0EUXVPRY

FYI, I did no tweaking or EQ'ing of the original mix tracks - they went straight from my record player to WAV files, then were converted to MP3s. The Lost '77 Mixes were ripped from the CD to WAV files and then converted to MP3s.

It seems as though the original mix was sped up a bit - I have a different rip of a different vinyl version on a different record player which I need to compare it with to make sure the time difference is part of the original mix, but I'm pretty sure it is. Was this a common mastering issue of the era (thinking of Au Pairs' Sense & Sensuality, which had speed errors in the original release)?

http://blog.drecom.jp/avallo/img/14/Heartbreakers-LAMF-.jpg

http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/dre400/e475/e47557stdmf.jpg

If the latter then it's L.A.M.F. Revisited (Johnny Thunders revisiting the original masters and attempting to remix them - unfortunately with somewhat... err.... mixed results); if the former then I believe I'm right in saying that it must be L.A.M.F The Lost '77 Mixes which (confusingly enough) didn't actually include different mixes at all, but was the album completely recreated from some of the (apparently huge quentity of) alternative takes that were recorded and abandoned in making the original album

Here's an expected outcome - the original was too tinny and trebly? So much for its reputation as a sludgefest.

And yes, L.A.M.F. Revisited was a fucking abortion. It drives me nuts to read reviews along the lines of "Correcting the problems with the original version, LAMF Revisted allows us to finally appreciate this album fully..." Bollocks! Thunders and Tony James were responsible for that con job.

As far as I know there are three versions of LAMF:

1977 - L.A.M.F. - Track Records
1984 - L.A.M.F. Revisited - Earmark
2002 - L.A.M.F. The Lost '77 Mixes - Jungle Records

I guess my follow-up question would be, is the original mix that bad? I don't think so - there are plenty of widely hailed records (The Clash, Birthday Party's Junkyard) that sound worse, at least to my ears. My theory is that the band badmouthed the album so much that everybody (namely music journalists) bought into the idea that it sounded like crap. It's now become a piece of received wisdom that the original mix of LAMF is garbage - not so!

What the hell does "L.A.M.F" mean?

Forgive my ignorance.

1977 - L.A.M.F. - Track Records
1984 - L.A.M.F. Revisited - Jungle (Earmark did a vinyl reissue)
1994 - L.A.M.F. The Lost '77 Mixes - Jungle Records

There was a special edition of the Lost '77 Mixes that came out in 2000 with a 2nd disc of goodies as well...

I like the original Track Records mix best. It's not as bad as everyone says, plus it's truer to the spririt of '77; low down dirty gutbucket punk.

If it's any hely to anyone, I agree with Edward entirely about L.A.M.F. Revisited (avoid like the plague) and L.A.M.F. The Lost '77 Mixes (HIGHLY recommended).

To my ears the original L.A.M.F. is definitely better than L.A.M.F. Revisited but not as good as L.A.M.F. The Lost '77 Mixes.

So, what I'm hearing here is that I should get the new one, since I doubt the original is easy to find.

I've always wanted to hear the original LP... I love "The Lost '77 Mixes" so much.

This would certainly fit with the fact that the original cassete release apparently sounds fine.

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/B00007MFGI.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

Well, for you and Captain Poo and anyone else interested, here is the original 1977 Track Records cassette version... said by many to be the best. These are 192Kbps MP3s taken from my well-played 28 year-old cassette, see what you think!

http://s59.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=22C2MEKKETSRR101FFGEX76DPD

COLONEL Poo

My apologies for demoting you in my earlier post...

I have actually been promoted to Commander Poo, but it's too much hassle to change my login name.

I'm curious!

The sound is muddy (the drums sound like pie plates), but of course I don't know how much of that is due to the age of the cassette (and it sounds good for a tape that I'm sure you've played 1,000 times!). It is nice to have the clean, crisp "Lost" mixes as a supplement, especially for things like the crystal clear guitar on "It's Not Enough," but I do think the cassette version is what I'll be playing more from now on. (I agree with Colonel Poo - why don't they just remaster from the original tapes, if they can find them, for a cleaned-up version of the LP takes?)

By the way, to clarify what I said above (I didn't have it quite right), here's the line I was talking about from Nina Antonia's liner notes for the "Lost '77 Mixes": "The irony of the entire L.A.M.F. debacle lies in the strong possibility that the mix problems lay in a series of mastering faults. The L.A.M.F. cassette of the time sounds as if it had a shower, shave, coffee and a cigarette compared to the sludgy vinyl version."

http://s32.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0TDTOG60TJ2P71J7QLY7JAIOX4

Secondly, it does indeed smoke. Big thanks to Niall! Another revelation regarding this lost classic. The cassette version retains the meaty thud of the drums (my main problem with the Lost '77 Mixes is the wimpy drum sound) while presenting the rest of the mix clear as a bell. Amazing.

I hereby reorganize my ranking of LAMF versions:

1) 1977 - L.A.M.F. - Track Records Cassette
2) 1977 - L.A.M.F. - Track Records LP
3) 1994 - L.A.M.F. The Lost '77 Mixes - Jungle Records
4) 1984 - L.A.M.F. Revisited - Jungle Records (AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE)

I have that DVD too, and the first thought that occurs is that it must have sounded appalling for a bunch of hamfisted cowboys like Jungle to have gone to the expense of said terrible overdubs.

Cranked is the only proper way to listen to it. And I agree completely: Your "Top 10 Albums of All Time" List

http://www.jungle-records.demon.co.uk/jungle/freudcd084.htm

I wonder who gets the $$ from these Jungle things (not that it matters, just curious). (I read a little interview Walter Lure recently - I think in Entertainment Weekly, of all places - he's a big shot downtown NYC finance guy! He seemed like a cool dude.)

Dadaismus, to further confuse matters, there are two versions of The Lost '77 Mixes, a single disc version (1994) and a 2 disc version (2000). The second disc has alternate takes & demos, but the first disc / single disc have the remixes that were made at the time the album was recorded.

from Wikipedia: When it came time to mix the recording, various factors proceeded to basically screw everything up for the Heartbreakers. The band bounced from studio to studio, with each member practically making his own mixes for every song. Previous mixes would be listened to and rejected, after which various band members would run back into any available studio with the multitrack master tapes for another round. One studio engineer vented his irritation at the process by writing on one of the tape boxes, "Two downers before the overdubs."

After Track Records' implosion, manager Leee Black Childers liberated all of the Heartbreakers' tapes — the Essex demos, the Speakeasy live recordings, and every inch of tape from the L.A.M.F. sessions (including thirty-five reels full of various mixes) — from the Track Records offices, thanks in part to the contract provision the band signed early in 1977.

In 1982, the rights to the Heartbreakers' tapes were acquired from Childers, acting on behalf of the band partnership, by Jungle Records, an English independent label. Jungle engaged Thunders and former Generation X bassist Tony James (then with Sigue Sigue Sputnik) to do a new remix of L.A.M.F. from the multitrack tapes, but the results, done in just three nights and released by Jungle as L.A.M.F. Revisited, met with mixed reaction from purists.

In 1994, Jungle Records executive Alan Hauser ordered that all of the Heartbreakers' tapes be reviewed, with the best available mixes to be preserved on Digital Audio Tape. It was soon discovered by Hauser that many of the original mixes left behind by the Heartbreakers were best suited to the band's protopunk sound, while others had a sound similar to Sixties pop hits. It was then concluded that the fault with the sound on the original Track Records release of L.A.M.F. lay in the mastering and manufacturing of the vinyl version of the album, especially when compared to the rare cassette edition released by Track at the same time, which "sounds as if it had a shower, shave, coffee and a cigarette". (liner notes of 2002 reissue by Nina Antonia, p.10).

The 300-plus available mixes were narrowed down to a shortlist of fifty tracks, and various London-area friends and colleagues of Johnny Thunders, including sometime Thunders collaborator Patti Palladin and journalist Nina Antonia, were asked for their input. The mixes used were primarily what Hauser and company considered to be the "rockier, punchier" versions. This "final" edition of L.A.M.F. was amended with a bonus disc featuring studio outtakes, Essex Studio demo versions of three tracks, and other related tracks and alternate mixes, including the post-Track demos of "London Boys" and "Too Much Junkie Business", that the band recorded for EMI.

Unless Johnny cooked and shot up the original master tape or Jerry used it as a drum head, it would be nice if Jungle could be arsed to actually release the original version.

Happily, no.

You may, however, find a pleasant surprise in your inbox in the coming days.

Listening to my LAMF Revisisted for the first time in about five years, which came in a three disc budget thing You Can't Put Your Arms Around A Memory and I think it sounds amazing, really clear yet cruddy. The vocals are 3/4 of the way down, the hi-hat way forward with the mid-range guitar. It's mixed a lot like Jay Reatard, with tracks jumping artificially loud at the keenest moments. What am I missing by not hearing the original mix? These guitars have the perfect power-tool buzz to them.

jesus what an album.

like, wow.

I used to have the original cassette version and it always sounded just fine: certainly as good as the remastered CD from a few years back.

apparently jungle records is putting out a boxset of LAMF this year, with one of the discs being the original track records mix. glad that LAMF revisited has been consigned to the dustbin of history.

The Heartbreakers ‘L.A.M.F.’ album 4 CD box set:
The Definitive Edition.

Disc 1: ‘LAMF – the lost mixes’
As reconstructed in 1994 from original tapes.

Disc 2: ‘LAMF’ The original Tracks Records mix.
Restored at last! The 'muddy' version without the mud - how they wanted it to sound!

Disc 3: The pre-LAMF demos.
13 tracks including some previously unreleased from three sessions prior to signing with Track Records, including some with Richard Hell.

Disc 4: ‘LAMF’ Alternate mixes
21 different mixes from the lengthy sessions at five different studios.

Plus: a 44-page booklet with a timeline 1975-78 detailing the background to how ‘L.A.M.F.’ came about, listing all the gigs, recording sessions and much more.
Plus a new interview with Walter Lure about his recolllections of LAMF and London, and notes by Johnny Thunders and New York Dolls biographer Nina Antonia.

Plus: a set of four pin badges.

oh and the full cassette version's on youtube now natch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYNM6_O3MjU

I used to have the cassette version and it was fine.

why yes, yes it is

so yeah that reish of the track records original mix is something else

http://open.spotify.com/user/edward_iii/playlist/20msOrGfGsc4IUDiFdpFyh

RIP Billy

Is the shitty-sounding vinyl version available anywhere?

i think there is a vinyl version of the "cleaned up" shitty-sounding mix, i.e. not remixed but w/o the supposed error that supposedly made it sound shitty. maybe on jungle? maybe as part of a 3lp set? to me the original lp never sounded terrible, and the "cleaned up" jungle version doesn't sound all that different. (i have that one on cd. picked it up just recently at the 40th-anniversary-of-lamf show with walter lure / clem burke / tommy stinson / wayne kramer. which was fun.)

All I know is this album rules, has always ruled and will continue to rule.

I guess this means I gotta spend fifty bucks on a copy on ebay to see if it really does sound like mud or not.

wow this was never available in the US at all? crazy.

OK I've obtained the original mix of LAMF through some ethically questionable means. Jeez, no wonder the band was so pissed off! The original mix is SO FUCKING AWFUL that it RUINS the entire album. You can't hear anything! So, disc 2 of the deluxe box set > the lost 77 mixes > revisted > the original. Glad we got this cleared up.