Taking Sides! Rick Wakemen vs. Keith Emerson!

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gold cape or white boots?!

chaki, Monday, 25 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Wakeman wins for guesting on Bowie and Black Sabbath albums,and for his mellotron expertise.That vaguely ambient bit in the middle of Close To The Edge is bliss.

Damian, Monday, 25 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Wakeman really does make "Hunky Dory" that much better!

chaki, Monday, 25 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Emerson. His soundtracks kill Wakeman's 37-odd albums of ambient drivel. 'Karn Evil 9' and 'America' should silence all doubters. Plus, Keith never quit drinking.

dave q, Monday, 25 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

My knowledge of Emerson is based entirely on the greatest hits of The Nice (which is not a good album), "Karn Evil No 9," "Lucky Man," and one of his solo albums. "Karn Evil No 9" is kinda OK and there are one or two decent songs on the Nice comp but on the whole it's a giant dish of fruit. Anyone who played on "Starship Trooper" can win anything they want from me. The album about King Henry's seven wives really blew though. Wakeman all the same.

sundar subramanian, Monday, 25 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

They are both great personal mates with Jim Davidson and thus cancel each other out.

Marcello Carlin, Monday, 25 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Both made consistently monstrous music. Emerson was maybe a little worse, but there have been few worse than either. Wakeman is a very entertaining chat show/Buzzcocks guest, so maybe he deserves a quicker death.

Martin Skidmore, Monday, 25 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Using thee terms "very entertaining" and "buzzcocks" as in "never mind the...." is very dangerous as in putting matter and anti-matter together which will destroy thee universe. Oh, the question. Rick Wakeman of course, not only was he r0x0r on early yes albums (esp "close to the edge") but his mellotron break on bowie's "space oddity" = fuxing phantastic. Also he was r0wr in his younger days, hard tho' this may be to believe.

Norman Phay, Monday, 25 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

For the record, from a purely technical standpoint, Emerson is a far better player than Wakeman (so is Moraz, for that matter). But with that I will shut up, or else Rick Wakeman will write, record, and release a concept album about me. :)

Joe, Tuesday, 26 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Wakeman has totally lost 'it' though, no? Moraz is (was) great! I have his albums with Bruford.

chaki, Tuesday, 26 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Keith Emerson, 'cos he used to put knives in his organ (fnarr fnarr). Now if he'd only put knives in L and P as well...

Although come to think of it, Wakeman (and Steve Howe) did play on Lou Reed's rather underrated first solo alb...

Andrew L, Tuesday, 26 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two weeks pass...
I'm enjoying the second side of the Nice comp now.

sundar subramanian, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

No, I was right the first time. It's pretty dull after the first few pop songs.

sundar subramanian, Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Anybody who thinks Emerson is a technically excellent keyboardist has clearly never heard ELP's "cover" of Pictures At an Exhibition. I'm not even sure where this statement comes from--Wakeman is extremely technically proficient, so much so that it's basically his MO.

matthew m., Monday, 18 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

I would think anyone who is a keyboardist with some degree of experience will tell you it's no contest (again, in terms of sheer technical proficiency) in Emerson's favor. Especially during their respective heydays in the early 70s.

Wakeman's 'technical proficiency' basically consists of playing right- handed arpeggios/scales/Baroque patterns very very quickly, while his left hand does basically nothing but provide anchor notes for said arpeggios/scales/Baroque patterns. In other words, wow he plays very very fast on his right hand...big deal.

Emerson, on the other hand...has way more stylistic range (certainly he has access to a huge jazz element that Wakeman is completely lacking), relatedly has a much more sophisticated harmonic vocabulary when it comes to writing (Wakeman's pieces are all comparatively pedestrian), and can play unbelievably intricate bits on his left hand, which I have never seen Wakeman tackle to a similar degree.

When I was a teenager, I learned and completely memorized Rick Wakeman's "Six Wives" solo (as printed in the "Yes Complete" songbook) in a reasonably short amount of time, like a week. When Keyboard magazine printed the transcription to "Eruption" (from Tarkus), I tried that, and it was obvious from the start that this was a much more sophisticated piece to learn (and that's only..what, the first two minutes of the piece?). After a much longer term of practicing/learning it, I could make it all the way through the piece fairly accurately, but still couldn't play it as seamlessly as I wanted to. Some time later, I acquired a transcription to "Karn Evil 9 2nd impression"...this was a total fucking monster...After a while, I just gave up. It was just totally fucking insane. Whenever I listen to it, I can't believe that he can actually play what he is playing as fast and as precise as he does. I've never heard a Wakeman piece that even approaches something on that scale, again in terms of technical proficiency.

I gather you don't like Emerson's take on Pictures of Exhibition. Well, I agree with you--I think it sucks, too. But that's a very different issue than saying he is not a technically excellent (and superior to Wakeman) keyboardist, which he clearly is (or at least, he was, before his hand surgery of a few years back).

Joe, Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

We're talking about pop keyboardists, here... this entire discussion is almost moot. Emerson and Wakeman are both flashy-and-laden prog keyboardists of the top caliber. They're not Keith Tippetts. Anybody who is burdening their work with tons of extraneous adornments (of any kind) for show is going to inevitably mess up, and they both do it all over their records, as I'm sure you've noticed. In this way, they're also not Yngwie Malmsteens--mind-blowing technical accuracy is not their vehicle of showmanship. Flashy aesthetics, however, are.

In short, I do admit that my above statement was biased by my distaste for ELP altogether, and especially PAaE. However, in taking it this far, I want to point out that, because of their natures, I think it's ridiculous to make this comparison in a critically-analytical context. Although... having a Wakeman vs Emerson "shoe-down" could be pretty fun.

matthew m., Tuesday, 19 March 2002 01:00 (twenty-four years ago)

two months pass...
Do any of you people actually play piano or keyboards? If so I can't see how you could reasonably say that Wakeman is technically better that Emerson. If you want to compare feel or phrasing, that is a totally different matter, but for sheer technical prowess, Emerson grinds Wakeman into the dirt.

Troy Turner, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

its true, ya know. wakeman basically made a career out of "playing ragtime really fast."

chaki, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

Taking Sides! Rick Wakemen vs. Keith Emerson!
It depends on what weapons you give them, and whether or not the Thunderdome has spikes on the inside walls. I personally would prefer John Lydon at the domes apex dropping molotov cocktails.

Lord Custos 2.0 beta, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (twenty-four years ago)

eight months pass...
am i the only one who likes pictures at an exhibition?

It might not be as technical as some of emerson's other work but i still think it sounds great

FIL, Thursday, 13 February 2003 22:56 (twenty-three years ago)

one year passes...
Revive! But first, Pictures at an Exhibition is an absolute classic. It's not any good, mind you. But it's accidental genius for sure. Between lyrics that put the gas in ghastly to the 45 gratuitous seconds of applause before Nutrocker, it's the ultimate dumb person's art record. Therefore, it's charming. I mean, how could you not smile at a record which ends with Greg Lake pronouncing "DEATH!!!! IS!!! LIIIIIIIFE!!!!!"

(also, it's got a nice instrumental passage or two)

For his association with this delightful monstrosity alone, you've gotta give this thread to Emerson. But he's also the more technically skilled of the two, though they both were very traditionally "musical," with phrasing and so forth. And, yes, his soundtrack work is periodically interesting, esp. that Argento film he did.

Demerits, though, for never having performed on ice.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 02:28 (twenty-two years ago)

hey NTI i really like Pictures at an Exhibition it might of been the albim that got me into weird 70s rock. i think it kicks ass and in the liner notes it mentions that Keith played that last song backwards! (facing the back of the keyboard)

Pablo Cruise (chaki), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 02:38 (twenty-two years ago)

Yes, but have you seen the video of PAaE where Emerson plays a ribbon controller by rubbing it against his gold lame ass? If not, you have not lived, compadre...

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 02:43 (twenty-two years ago)

Referenced on another thread already, but did you check out this recent picture of Emerson chilling with Yes (including Wakeman) and Jack Black?

www.yesworld.com

Click on "News" and scroll down about half-way..

Somebody on another forum joked that Chris Squire appears to have morphed into Edgar Froese of Tangering Dream :)

Joe (Joe), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 02:47 (twenty-two years ago)

Actually, here's a direct link:

http://www.yesworld.com/images/tour_2004/yes_jack_black.jpg

Joe (Joe), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 02:48 (twenty-two years ago)

Also referenced on another thread already!

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 03:02 (twenty-two years ago)

Oh, wait, I thought you were pointing out that the ribbon controller thing was on another thread. It's late.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 5 May 2004 03:06 (twenty-two years ago)

I actually think Pictures at an Exhibition is not one of the better early ELP albums. Their original instrumental tracks on some of those first few albums are pretty underrated, I think.

Tim Ellison, Wednesday, 5 May 2004 03:41 (twenty-two years ago)

two years pass...
Sorry - but i'm the best.

so there!!

(and i have to sing and play bass guitar as well. phew!!)

Graham - Dark Asylum

Graham Holley, Saturday, 13 May 2006 09:41 (twenty years ago)

"Emerson. His soundtracks kill Wakeman's 37-odd albums of ambient drivel. 'Karn Evil 9' and 'America' should silence all doubters. Plus, Keith never quit drinking."

dave q otm.

scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 13 May 2006 09:58 (twenty years ago)

Technically, Emerson was possibly the best. I still go for Wakeman, though, because he has written some really great songs (or parts of "suites" more like) and because he has been more varied in his style than Emerson, who back in the ELP days would usually either play the piano like a classical virtuoso, hammer down some jazz influenced improvisation on the Hammond B3 or play either bass or a weird glissando solo on the synths.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 13 May 2006 21:10 (twenty years ago)

four months pass...
Anyone who played on "Starship Trooper" can win anything they want from me.

Thats not Rick Wakeman, Sundar! Thats Tony Kaye!

chaki (chaki), Friday, 6 October 2006 02:35 (nineteen years ago)

Yeah, I can't believe I didn't know that 4 years ago. The keyboards on Fragile and Close to the Edge are more impressive anyway. Don't know KE well enough to compare.

Sundar (sundar), Friday, 6 October 2006 03:51 (nineteen years ago)

Wakeman could / can rock a Mellotron/MiniMoog like no one else. Plus, his recent solo album is a hoot and he's great live (seen him with Yes). I say Wakeman.

Jay Vee's Return (Manon_69), Friday, 6 October 2006 03:54 (nineteen years ago)

wow whats that sound like

chaki (chaki), Friday, 6 October 2006 15:42 (nineteen years ago)

Wakeman played on Clive Dunn's Grandad thus trumping everything Emerson has ever done.

Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Friday, 6 October 2006 15:58 (nineteen years ago)

Wakeman. Because of all the reasons above: Bowie, Grandad, etc. Plus he used to eat curry onstage during Steve Howe's solos on the Topographic Oceans tour (hidden under his cape of course).

everything (everything), Friday, 6 October 2006 16:07 (nineteen years ago)

lol, rick wankman all the way
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W69rdh0dD44

timmy tannin (pompous), Saturday, 7 October 2006 04:24 (nineteen years ago)


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