I have had it up to here waiting for the Beatles catalogue to be remastered

the person that book reflects most poorly on is Peter Brown imo

I remember it having this kind of leering, self-satisfied tone, "look at how horrible your precious Beatles really were!" etc. It's not that I'd prefer a white-washed sycophantic bio or anything, but it just seemed particularly vicious, exhibiting a joy in its salaciousness.

Goldman's a total hack, obviously.

Our local library only had Phillip Norman's book and a two volume set by Ray Coleman called John Winston Lennon and John Ono Lennon but the teenage me enjoyed those, dunno what I'd think now.

Read the Goldman book from a local library as a kid, probably the biggest book I'd ever read. A weird introduction to Beatles biography, wasn't til years later I realised how controversial it had been.

I also just read this excellent book contemporary to its publishing by Bill Wyman (who I gather is a old-hand controversialist rock journo rather than the fella from the Stones)
http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/reading-lennon-mania/Content?oid=872827

*article, not book

Bill Wyman's a great writer - the letter he penned in Jagger's name, in response to Keith's autobiography, is excellent.

I used to read Wyman pretty religiously in the Reader in the '80s and '90s, and his Jagger letter is indeed clever and makes all the necessary points.

But this (from the link above) is complete horseshit:

There are also indications that Goldman doesnt know much about pop music. A case in point is the way he passes along one of John's more farfetched utterances, that groups like the B-52s (and by extension other dance-oriented new wave bands like Talking Heads) were inspired by Yoko's experimentalism in the early 70s. This claim was prompted by the song "Rock Lobster," which Lennon heard once in a disco; it featured squeaks and squeals just like Yoko's. But those were just "lobster sounds," ancillary to the song; Yoko Ono was of little inspiration to the new wave, and a pop-culture "expert" like Goldman ought to know it.

The B-52s frequently mentioned Yoko as an influence, on their work in general and "Rock Lobster" in particular. Wyman's blind spots -- his biggest being just about anything that can be termed "avant-garde" -- often are revealed as rank ignorance masquerading as considered criticism. When he was the co-host of "Sound Opinions" in the mid-'90s, he said of "free jazz," "It's the kind of jazz where everyone plays whatever they want and doesn't listen to anyone else in the group." His co-host (Greg Kot, I believe) shut him down, but not before Wyman further embarrassed himself talking about something he has no experience with and less knowledge about.

Yoko Ono was a major inspiration to the new wave, and a pop-culture "expert" like Wyman ought to know it.

those were just "lobster sounds"

lol apparently this guy knows less about lobsters than music

http://i38.tinypic.com/35d6clt.jpg

"THERE GOES A JELLYFISH!"

the Screaming Lobster of Hope!

i read this thread but for some reason i don't know how to participate

420 thoughts but let me lamely just say that something about the way ringo sings the first lines 'with a little help from my friends', along with the "would you believe in a love at first sight?/yes i'm certain that it happens all the time", brings a tear to my eye in a bizarre way that pretty much zero other pop song does for me. i'm not a huge ringo singing guy or anything, but the quality of his voice perfectly matches the song, and the way the harmonies and lyrical interplays are arranged is an insanely spot-on audio reproduction of the feeling of real friendship. i think it brings the tear because it triggers nostalgia out of nowhere.

sings the first lines IN 'with a little help from my friends', i mean, sorry

;-)

also, you know what other song rules so much that it breaks the rules? 'getting better'. the drumming on that song is unbelievably good, it's the drum equivalent of a riff, no fills, just the exact right parts at all the right times.
i don't know if you can tell but i'm listening to Sgt. Pepper's RIGHT NOW.

Wednesday 29 March
Studio Two: 7.00pm-5.45am

It had already been decided that this song would not merely follow the album's title track but that it would be joined to it, `segued' to use music industry parlance. Hence the song, from
the very first take, began with what — on the LP — sounds more like the end of `Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band', the "Bil-ly Shears" vocal line. Underscoring that line (although the vocals weren't added until later) was a organ piece played by George Martin. Then, into the song proper, Paul played piano, George lead guitar, Ringo drums and John cowbell.

Ten takes were made using this basic rhythm line-up, the tenth being best. This was then converted into take 11 by a reduction mix which saw all four tracks from the first tape merge into one. Ringo's lead vocal — one of the best he has ever recorded — was then overdubbed onto tracks three and four of the song and more overdubs were taped on 30 March.

they recorded until almost 6 in the morning and Ringo drummed for 10 takes then sang the final lead vocal all in the same night. what a badass!

^Lewisohn

the very next day they shot the album cover then went straight back to the studio, working until 7.30am overdubbing the backing vocals and all the additional instruments. so for a lot of that song they may have actually been dressed like they are on the cover.

Looking forward to more installments of KM's real-time review of Sgt. Pepper's

Should be getting to "She's Leaving Home" just about now. Two things I love about this song:
- Mike Leander's spectacular string arrangements
- how both the runaway girl and her parents are portrayed empathetically

nah, i did the worst thing and tried to make my own music. now it's an hour later and i hate myself. back to the beatles!

i'm feeling very participatory percussiony right now so i'm just playing along to all of ringo's drum parts to feel how they feel to play. the basic beat of 'being for the benefit of mr. kite' is so goofily plompy because you just lurch back and forth, stomping with both the left (hi-hat) and right (bass drum) feet on the 1's and 3's while leaning backward off of the petals on 2's and 4's to let the hi-hat open up before being smushed back down again with your next lurch.

reminds me of classic disney animation in some ways

Whenever you see pictures of them in the studio, especially in the early years, there are timpani there, sometimes with Ringo by them. I realize the studio probably just had them around, but is there any timpani on any Beatles track?

Answer (thanks google!) is I guess "Every Little Thing."

this is the hardest measure to specify, but at 2:06-2:08 (central spotify time) on 'good morning good morning', while the bird chirps are fading away and just as the pitch-shifting puppy bark fades in (lol), is ringo briefly adding double bass note hits?? it's not difficult of a move but it's so un-ringo like! for just a second there he slays and then quickly shifts back to a slightly more restrained mode. that sound might be paul's bass adding some really percussive muted notes, i suppose, i feel like him doing that earlier in the song.

"Mother Nature's Son" has timpani too

that sound might be paul's bass adding some really percussive muted notes

Pretty sure that's what that is. Ringo never did the double-bass thing. And the 16th-notes on the tympani on the SFF outro are Paul as well, I believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjBrMnQmg9s

i think there's double bass on "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Hello Goodbye" as well.

That is some delicious fuckin' Ringo drumming right there. Thanks for that, Adam.

looks like there is a lot of debate online as to whether or not it's all Ringo or if Paul is helping him out here (and elsewhere). fwiw i've tried this very thing from time to time and it's not easy, the two drummers have to be perfectly in sync with one another. Paul had skills tho, and there is this photo from the "Strawberry Fields" sessions which proves that yes Paul joined Ringo on the set from time to time:

http://i.imgur.com/YgsPjvy.jpg

some point to the "Take 8" featured on Anthology 2, which has a bass part clearly played by Paul. but there is only one guitar part there, while the bass and John's vocal were both overdubbed specifically for that take. it boils down to whether or not Paul played bass when they taped the original rhythm track. the upcoming box set has "Take 1" so maybe this question will be answered.

420 thoughts but let me lamely just say that something about the way ringo sings the first lines 'with a little help from my friends', along with the "would you believe in a love at first sight?/yes i'm certain that it happens all the time", brings a tear to my eye in a bizarre way that pretty much zero other pop song does for me.

playing this song on acoustic guitar for my son, when I only had one son, was among the most emotional experience of my life: not just once, but reliably, because he liked the song, so I'd play it often, and reflect on the depths of its insight. I am not a major Beatles bro but this song sounds the depths imo. what songs, prior to this, reflect on just how important it is to have friends?

hey great posts you two

on "with a little help"

Karl Malone 420 Beatles thoughts should probably be a whole thread

would bookmark

So, so OTM about the "With A Little Help" drumming. His fill right after the first chorus -- a great example of what Phil Collins famously referred to on this album as "air fills" -- is one of the most transcendent moments in their music for me.

xposts worst thread ever, but thanks! ;)

looks like there is a lot of debate online as to whether or not it's all Ringo or if Paul is helping him out here (and elsewhere). fwiw i've tried this very thing from time to time and it's not easy, the two drummers have to be perfectly in sync with one another. after hearing the isolated drum track you posted, i'm pretty sure it's all ringo (or all paul for that matter), but not both playing at the same time. the kicks are very consistent and sound like they're coming from a double-pedal. if paul was joining in on the side i think he'd have to just hit the bass drum head with a stick in order to do it, and then you'd be able to pick out that sound because it's distinctive.

" is there any timpani on any Beatles track?

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, April 20, 2017 6:51 PM (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Answer (thanks google!) is I guess "Every Little Thing."
"

yes. I think there's a picture of ringo playing timpani on the back of Beatles VI as well.

http://https%3A//beatlesblogger.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/beatles-vi-back-cover.jpg

WTF don't images show up anymore?

https://beatlesblogger.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/beatles-vi-back-cover.jpg

anyway I always assumed that pic was from the Every Little Thing session which is pretty amazing consistency for Capitol to have on a record that was chopped and assembled from other things

Xpost its because that one is https it needs to be http

the kicks are very consistent and sound like they're coming from a double-pedal.

Double bass drum pedals didn't exist until the '80s. And there are no photos nor any other documentation of Ringo ever playing a double-bass-drum setup. The "double kick" sound is Paul playing a muted string on his bass.

Louie Bellson was playing Gretsch double bass drum pedals of his own design in the 40s. http://drummagazine.com/double-bass-legends-a-short-history/

The article says Gretsch made Bellson's first double-bass kit, but not a double-bass pedal.

There's this, though:

Unbelievably, there were crude double pedals available even back then [early 1910s]. Alas, they were not remote pedals, and didn’t catch fire with players, even though they were made of wood.

I highly doubt Ringo was using one of these old-timey pedals, and anyway, the sound is closer to that of a muted bass than of a bass drum.

ugh, the cold light of 4/21. according to the authoritative sounding beatlesebooks.com,

"Ringo actually played on a set with two bass drums in order to get the quick paced 16th note fills as heard periodically during the song."

i sloppily used the word "double-pedal" upthread but i didn't specifically mean a single BD played with a double bass-drum pedal, i just meant playing bass drum(s) with two separate pedals, which was common at the time. like ginger baker:

http://i.imgur.com/oHIU7rL.jpg

wikipedia sez:
'The rapid 16th note bass drum fills were done on two bass drums according to The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions by Mark Lewisohn.[9]'

I stand corrected! Curious if it was an overdub or if he did it live. Either way, interesting that Ringo never really went further into double-bass land.

from http://www.idrummag.com/interviews/bakers-back/

Actually Moonie [Keith Moon] did it first. We were at a Duke Ellington concert where Sam Woodyard was playing. All of his drummers always played two bass drums and I was very impressed with Sam and some of the things he did with two bass drums. Moonie was there and I said, ‘I’m going to get two bass drums’ so I asked Ludwig to make me a kit whereas Moonie just went into the drum shop and bought two Premier kits and joined them together. So he actually did it before me, but we both got the idea at the same place and time.