The strawman of the white, DJ Shadow/Jurassic 5 loving, university student hip-hop fan

no, this is music college students listened to in the late 90s. maybe this is why we're hating on them. it's passe already.

-- Dom Passantino (juror...), July 25th, 2005.

you know what the worst bit is?

at least several uni friends have said this or simular to me:

"You love music don't you? Have you heard much Jack Johnson".

Hand me a sawn-off shotgun i'll do it.

It terrifies me.

Can I get my own grandmother pregnant first?

Instead of the national anthem, he could do that wonderful song he recorded with Handsome Boy Modelling School.

"Unforgivable Whiteness"

I'm pretty sure this is it, people half-remember arguements that were used against them four years ago and try and use it as their own opinions now that they're "loving this music unironically".

The thread should have been locked after this.

(There's nothing wrong with liking Shadow or El-P or J5 or Prefuse.. duh. I think it's a case where the "this is hip hop that's KEEPIN IT REAL" strawman fan gets blown to proportions in relation to those artists or similar, and then one who admits liking these folks gets assumed to *be* that strawman or strawwoman, and becomes the whipping person, unfortunately gets defensive about said artists because he/she may or may not have listened to "real" "urban" "mainstream" hip-hop, vicious cycle, blah blah blah blah blah.... everyone should be sentenced to go to their local bookstore and read the Kool Herc intro to Jeff Chang's hip hop book... I recommend they buy it and read it, too.. but they should be required to at least read the intro.)

How long have you been out of college for?

Ouch. Help me. I think I've laughed so hard that I've broken something.

I don't mind Jack Johnson. He seems like he'd be fun to smoke up with and then he'd sing you a pretty song.

This may be hard to believe, but this stereotype can apply to people *outside* college too! And they may even hate Shadow and J5, and love Ja-Rule and Nas! OMG!

I mean, if you're singing along and goofing on shit, then you're liking it in some way, right? I was talking to someone who just graduated high school and I think that's probably the way she sees most radio hip-hop/r&b. It's really no more ridiculous than any other music, but all the innuendo and raps about panty lines just doesn't really describe your life at that age.

Otherwise, the whole Shadow/J5/Diplo/Prefuse/R2Dj2/whatever fan stereotype is just as much a strawman as any white guy who wants to live black and doesn't "do it accurately enough" because that's borne from a comedic, mainstream strawman/stereotype, period.

I think the border line is how the possible strawman feels about dead prez's "(bigger than) hip hop." Is it real enough? Does the production make it too commercial? Have they only heard of it because they're kanye trainspotting after finding their direction in life through "college dropout?"

I saw J5 for a second time sometime around 2003 (2002?) and I almost fell asleep because they decided to perform pretty much every song they ever recorded. I swear, it went on foreeeeever. Also, is this strawman responsible for all kinds of college kids thinking every DJ is a turntablist? Because jesus, if I could blame it for every guy who's made some sort of "wicky wicky scratch" noise during a discussion about djing it'd clear up some emotional issues.

Anyway, so I don't really get the issue. What're the sides we're discussing here? That folks who still listen to J5/DJ Shadow (I personally think he is far above and beyong any J5 link)/RJD2 aren't listening to the "real shit?" And those listening to the "real shit" think the J5/DJ Shadow/RJD2 fans have no clue? What's the issue?

And where do Tribe and De La fall in all this? I think and argument of the non-real shit fan is maybe "positivity" or "talking about things I can actually relate to." At least those are the arguments I can remember from my college days. But I still can't take a side or provide a real argument because I don't really know what the question is.

I think that for a lot of people (I'm not necessarily one of them), J5 and Shadow represent a museum curator's approach to hip-hop, a sort of "4 elements 4 life" nostalgia that keeps rap's aesthetic locked in a time capsule from which it can never evolve. Ergo, the white college kid who champions these artists is, in fact, speaking a dead language.

http://www.costumeexpo.com/Products/hats/character/thumbs/strawman.jpg

Oh – De La pwns all over Talib, Mos Def, and Jurassic 5. Have you listened to their beats? Their last album shows no slackening.

haha yeah i think this is key. the new strawman regards jay-z playing glastonbury in 2008 as a great leap forward.

Back in the day, we built our strawmen from people we saw walking round university campuses. Now we build them based on late twentysomethings we read on the internet.

pretty much, though i am still a student!

This kind of guy (generalise from your own experience) also listens to a set list of indie and IDM types, but you never hear indie fans complaining about how Super Furry Animals fans are ruining indie, or electronica types talking about "Yet _another_ Aphex Twin fan".

Haha RONG.

Yeah isn't Aphex Twin the signifier for someone claiming "I'm not really into that dance stuff, although I don't mind Come to Daddy?" Dance music for 6Music listeners. Again, I like Aphex Twin!

sopering point but this autumn's fresher intake were not born when aphex put out his first record, so they're not going to be invested in his work in quite the same way as us old lags.

sobering. hic.

Since it's not 1998 any more, you probably need to substitute Aphex Twin for The Bug or Burial or someone.

Actually this strawman still pops up in my head whenever I look at the Friday night listings for Fabric. These people will always exist, unless weed suddenly disappears from the surface of the earth.

I'm old, just not down with the hippy students any more.

Come To Daddy would be morelike the token pick for 'open minded'-but-not-really metal fans FWIW (Dillinger Escape Plan covered it for example)

good thread.

bring back the old Dom!

Amount of people who know I like hip-hop and have tried bringing up scroobius pip or whatever that shit is in the past 6 months: 7.

Amount of people who know I like hip-hop and have talked to me about Jurassic 5/Dj Shadow etc. ever: O.

Amount of people who have talked to me about Lil Wayne/T.I.: 1.

I hate only knowing students.

yikes, i just ran into the blog post that inspired this revive by accident.

A producer and a poet from Essex weren't the most likely candidates to become the saviours of intelligent hip-hop, but with Scroobius Pip's wit and biting social commentary backed up by Dan le Sac's 8-bit bleeps and beats, it's hard to disagree.

Should we invite that dude on her to defend himself?

unfortunate typo there robinho.

it really takes a lot to raise my ire these days when it comes to music, but le sac and pip do it every. single. time.

so yes let's get that blogger on here.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_oa218zfUV7w/SQXLDuHTbwI/AAAAAAAAACo/5Sfuh4worQE/S220/Head.jpg

http://musicfromagreenwindow.blogspot.com/

...."scroobius pip?"

In an age where hip-hop stars are regularly lambasted for inciting violence, misogyny and homophobia, and where a lot of the time this is true, it could be all too easy to slip into a jaded view of the whole genre. But by dismissing it out of hand, a whole world of musical pioneering could be missed - for every Ludacris there's a Mos Def, for every G-Unit there's a De La Soul. Hip-Hop can have something to say, and it can be as meaningful as any lyric sung by some misanthropic indie singer.

― Mare Street tour guide (Dom Passantino), Wednesday, January 28, 2009 6:46 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

also, dunno where that's from, but it *sounds* like something from my high school newspaper

Dan Le Sac should've produced 'Slime And Reason'

Haha I was about to say, surely this strawman grew up and started writing for Hip-Hop Connection?

Can I get my own grandmother pregnant first?

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Monday, July 25, 2005 7:09 PM (3 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol italians

She's dead now :-(

hope you're happy and what

i got nothing...

of course not. he said she's dead, didn't he?

As if by magic, Chipmunk's new single has just come on the radio and seems a brazen attempt to appeal to this market. :(

what, dead grannies?

Nothing to do with dead grannies, no. I'm not sure what magic has to do with anything either really.

"Sometimes songs will reappear in your head for no reason. You'll start humming a tune, and only recognise what that song is a minute later. I love it when this happens, it's a true affirmation of loving a song, that it's buried almost subconsciously into you. For me, today, it was "Midnight Surprise" by Lightspeed Champion."

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/131/420368047_f9160de2b6.jpg?v=1173822608

If Lightspeed Champion had sold some records, we could easily have used him as a punchline more often.

Or if he had a drummer

If Lightspeed Champion had sold some records, we could easily have used him as a punchline more often.

Can't think of any other pop musician to have had no sales bump whatsoever after an untimely death. RIP big man.

I used to know a lot of "heads" (all white guys, natch) who listened to music such as this on their studio quality headphones while walking around town, their dreadlocked hair tucked neatly into their rastafarian hats

Man, that must have been an awful fictional town.

Bay Area, late 90s. But thanks for calling.

"Bay Area" indeed!

Berkeley, if you want to be specific.

cliche area

most of them seemed to live in the co-ops, now that I think about it.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_oa218zfUV7w/SQXLDuHTbwI/AAAAAAAAACo/5Sfuh4worQE/S220/Head.jpg
CLICHE AREA

cliche area

I see. So now if you witness something, you should change the place you saw it to be "less cliche."

that last Shadow album did pretty much suck tho (except 3 Freaks) right?

http://www.fulana.org/images/if-you-see-something.JPG

I used to know a lot of "heads" (all white guys, natch) who listened to music such as this on their studio quality headphones while walking around town, their dreadlocked hair tucked neatly into their rastafarian hats

― Jesus Christ, Attorney at Law (res), Thursday, 29 January 2009 17:00 (1 hour ago) Bookmark

Where is Ed?

no hat on Ed, he lets it flow

"that last Shadow album did pretty much suck tho (except 3 Freaks) right?"

shadow basically started hating his fans. more 'corny indie rap fuxor' self hate.

lol otm

lol otm

― The Reverend (rev), Thursday, January 29, 2009 3:58 PM (13 minutes ago) Bookmark

lol otm