Eric Dolphy

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discuss this too short-lived jazz master

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 14 July 2005 23:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

buy everything you see with his name on it.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 14 July 2005 23:34 (7 years ago) Permalink

haha even the record with the parrot?!?!????!?

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 14 July 2005 23:38 (7 years ago) Permalink

the only person i listen to more than dolphy is lee morgan. i love it all. live. studio. anything.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 14 July 2005 23:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

Scott can you be bothered explaining why you like Dolphy so much to someone who doesn't-really-like-most-jazz and is probably not going to follow up your comments by listening again to anything he has already heard, but who finds Dolphy's playing so incomprehensible and unpleasant (especially on his own projects) that he wonders what it is people are hearing?

(Have you heard the one with the Latin Jazz Q[something]tet? I do still want to hear that one.)

― RS LaRue (RSLaRue), Thursday, 14 July 2005 23:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

today i procured a copy of Out There, along with some Mingus stuff and a Max Eider LP. all it cost me was some lcd soundsystem type crap in trade.

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 14 July 2005 23:47 (7 years ago) Permalink

i second th dolphy addiction...blame it on my cokehead parents

― dan bunnybrain (dan bunnybrain), Thursday, 14 July 2005 23:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

I remember first listening to a lot of Dolphy in sophomore year of high school (gear secret: i listened to nothing but '60s jazz for one year in high school) and probably not "getting it" at the time, it being a little "out there" for my tastes (rofl). But now I've been getting into him heavily.

― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 14 July 2005 23:51 (7 years ago) Permalink

he infuriates the bourgeois: http://www.bluenote.com/detail.asp?SelectionID=9423

― vahid (vahid), Friday, 15 July 2005 00:00 (7 years ago) Permalink

Reviewer: Tadmor Von Butterpie from London, Eng.
My dog loves jazz but he leaves the room anytime I play this CD. It must be pretty awful because my dog (A Maltese) really loves to hang out and listen to jazz. It isn't my favorite music either, but I believe animals are non-biased against anything except cats. Blue note was just trying to "Stay with the new trends" when this thing was produced. I don't blame anyone, because jazz was slowly dying when this was made. It was a mistake.

Reviewer: Monty Hamilton - alto sax musician from Ft Lauderdale Fl.
This is some really challenging music, and it would be best if you were alone when you played it. I would never put something like this on in mixed company because only 1 person in maybe 100 is going to tolerate the awful note progression. This may be the worst jazz recording ever made. I like jazz because it relaxes me. Ornette Colman and Eric Dolphy make me nervous. I suspect they were both stoned much of the time. Charles Mingus also recorded some really unfriendly stuff, but this is just rude.

Reviewer: Neil from Northampton, Massachusetts
I'm a big Mingus fan and love Dolphy's work with him. I find this CD unlistenable. I'm not a fan of free jazz, but compared to this Ornette Coleman sounds like a Strauss waltz.

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 15 July 2005 00:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

THIS IS JUST PLAIN RUDE, FOLKS

― Gear! (Gear!), Friday, 15 July 2005 00:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

the huffy pro-dolphy contingent is just as funny...

Reviewer: twocentsworth from nowhere really
Just another listener was shot out of the saddle once again. It seems he doesn't know a bra from a jock strap, and he doesn't know music from horse manure. My vote is for little old lady, the 19 year old chick from D-troit. Take a hike, tin eared, just another fruitcake Bruce. Nobody likes ya and nobody wants to listen to ya. Go pound yer worm.

― vahid (vahid), Friday, 15 July 2005 00:07 (7 years ago) Permalink

i think this guy posts on dissensus

Believe it or not, Jesus loves Eric Dolphy.
Reviewer: Karl A.D. Evangelista from
You will forgive my facetiousness… I simply find it regrettable that the defamation campaign against the so-called jazz “avant-garde” has dissolved into such extremes of vulgarity. Truthfully, it is a sensitive debate, and both factions can be faulted their fanatics, that air of ideological swagger that—in the best circumstances—is an indication of sheer, unadulterated love. But I have read it here… I have seen the institutions of civility, integrity and class ripped from their foundations and sent tumbling down a cliff to an uncertain, unfortunate demise. For shame. “Out to Lunch” is many things to many people—an intoxicating, thrilling experience to some, a disastrous, train wreck of an experiment to others. Regardless, it was conceived of pure intentions and is, if anything, a testament to the stubborn, reckless courage of a true jazz original. Thank you, Eric Dolphy, for attempting to tilt the scales, subvert the dominant paradigm… successful or not. Keep it civil, and keep it real. Hell, even the critics could fake it.

― vahid (vahid), Friday, 15 July 2005 00:08 (7 years ago) Permalink

haha

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 15 July 2005 00:13 (7 years ago) Permalink

Out to Lunch is sheer genius, period. There's nothing else like it in the whole canon. Those first few bars of Dolphy's solo in "Hat and Beard", where the whole band seems to just collapse into different directions but at the same time keep it together, is one of the greatest moments in all of jazz.

― Keith C (kcraw916), Friday, 15 July 2005 00:43 (7 years ago) Permalink

This thread made me whistle "Jitterbug Waltz" at all my pets. (They ran away.)

― Rock Hardy (Rock Hardy), Friday, 15 July 2005 02:24 (7 years ago) Permalink

Out to Lunch is a fantastic record, but I'm not a huge Dolphy guy -- he relies on the same tricks too much. I like his stuff with Chico Hamilton.

― Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 15 July 2005 02:27 (7 years ago) Permalink

you need to get Mingus at Antibes and put on Wednesday Night Prayer Meeting (?). if that ain't the greatest thing ever, the shit done wore off.

― yuengling participle (rotten03), Friday, 15 July 2005 03:57 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm just not too fond of the stuff with Booker Little, the Five Spot, etc. It just sounds like hard bop with a little extra hot sauce.

― Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 15 July 2005 04:04 (7 years ago) Permalink

A GOD.

One of the best ever. Multi-instrumentalism. BASS CLARINET.

GOD BLESS THE CHILD.

COLTRANE QUINTET in EUROPE.

That covers most of it.

But yeah. A GOD.

― Stormy Davis (diamond), Friday, 15 July 2005 04:13 (7 years ago) Permalink

mingus presents mingus

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 15 July 2005 04:20 (7 years ago) Permalink

mully too otm to go without my buying him a couple of rounds for too long.

"Why are they so sick and ridiculous, Dannie?!"

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Friday, 15 July 2005 04:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

That first sentence should be as clearly stated as Mingus'.

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Friday, 15 July 2005 05:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

rickey you can buy me a drink anytime - but no clinking glasses k?

― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 15 July 2005 07:34 (7 years ago) Permalink

I said my piece about Eric D here (but thanks to crap Blogger archiving you'll have to scroll an awful long way down).

― Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Friday, 15 July 2005 07:36 (7 years ago) Permalink

Whenever I used to go to lunch in the old office i used to work in I used to prop up the CD of "Out to Lunch" on my PC, thus indicating that I was out to lunch and ludicrously hip and groovy at the same time.

― Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 15 July 2005 08:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

Out To Lunch and Mingus at Antibes seconded.

don't miss Outward Bound either.

― m coleman (lovebug starski), Friday, 15 July 2005 10:09 (7 years ago) Permalink

C just for "When you hear music, after it's over, it's gone in the air. You can never recapture it again."

― marc h. (marc h.), Friday, 15 July 2005 10:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

He's great on Blues and the Abstract Truth too. For a somewhat straight-ahead album, his solos stand out by having this off-kilter (I'm not going to say 'angular') sense to them. He keeps it tuneful and swinging enough to fit into the mold of the record, but his solos are also weird enough to keep it interesting.

― Keith C (kcraw916), Friday, 15 July 2005 11:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

I love it when he hits that flute in Stolen Moments. On a slight tangent, I have lately been hooked on an MP3 I got of Mark Murphy singing that song.

For some reason my favorite Dolphy-related record this past year has been George Russell's Ezz-Thetics. There was a period where it seemed like every new record I bought turned out (to my surprise) to have Dolphy as a sideman. It put a big grin on my face every time.

Does anyone have the Dolphy boxset? It's been on my wantlist for a few years, but never quite get it together to buy that one. Incidentally, the same is true for Ellington's At Newport '56, which isn't remotely near as expensive; I'm just a sucker for buying a bunch of cheap CDs instead of single big collections.

Lots of people who come to jazz from rock seem to get hooked on Dolphy pretty early. It's like he and Roland Kirk has some odd hook on us (of course, Kirk has the big, familiar blues thing + the rock'n'roll wildness, while Dolphy has the energy, and rock-types seem to veer towards the free jazz stuff anyways)

― Øystein (Øystein), Friday, 15 July 2005 11:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

Yep, (we) rock fans do tend to gravitate towards Dolphy early - he had a real rock 'n roll spirit and a kind of freewheeling humour in his playing, unlike his completely humourless friend and collaborator John Coltrane. (Whom I also worship - that wasn't a dis.) It's a cliché to blather on about Dolphy's speech-like phrasing, but that's exactly what it WAS, of course. Just listen to that famous "argument" with Charlie Mingus in "What Love" on Mingus Presents Mingus. (And listen real close to the "Antibes" live version to hear Mingus tell some rude French heckler "You can go fuck y'self!" during Eric's solo!)

Another one I like: Andrew Hill's Point Of Departure.

Another

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Friday, 15 July 2005 12:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

Re: the Oliver Nelson album his solos are also weird enough to keep it interesting.

I agree. This is the same with the Booker Little material as well. I understand how it can sound pretty tame ("hard bop with more hot sauce," I like it) but those records are amazing. Both Booker Little and Dolphy are such distinct voices. Dolphy may use the same tricks but they're good tricks, and he doesn't approach a song or a solo like anyone else.

When I was in college, I met a guy who had no jazz at all in his collection (he listened to Phish and stuff) except for the Eric Dolphy box set, which he wanted to talk about for days and days. So Oystein you are on to something. Also, Ellington Newport '56 you can find on vinyl for a few bucks pretty easily.

― mcd (mcd), Friday, 15 July 2005 12:58 (7 years ago) Permalink

I haven't listened to Dolphy for awhile and I wouldn't say he's one of my all-time faves, but this thread makes me realize that I do love a lot of his recordings -- Mingus at Antibes, Out to Lunch, Blues & the Abstract Truth, and the Coltrane Village Vanguard stuff.

― Jordan (Jordan), Friday, 15 July 2005 13:03 (7 years ago) Permalink

'Meditations on Integration': celestial*~

― B Nasty (B Nasty), Saturday, 16 July 2005 17:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

― jhoshea (scoopsnoodle), Saturday, 16 July 2005 17:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

These days he does more rapping under the psuedonym pastor troy:

― deej.., Saturday, 16 July 2005 18:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

"and rock-types seem to veer towards the free jazz stuff anyways)"

sun ra would be the king of this, no? people with 4000 rock CDs and 40 sun ra CDs. and pharoah sanders too, probably.

a little-known fun-fact about me: i listen to almost NO free jazz. maybe in my old age. i listen to jazz from the 20s to the 50s and then i mostly skip to the 70s.and not the atonal 70's. not to say that there aren't a ton of jazz records that i like from the 60's, but most of them wouldn't be considered free jazz. i'll get to it all eventually, but there is so much from the 40s/50s that i haven't heard yet. and that's the stuff that really dig. when i've heard every hampton hawes record then maybe i'll get to cecil taylor.

― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 16 July 2005 20:01 (7 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

There's also a ridiculously lively Dolphy - Mingus duologue on Mingus in Europe ...whether on Vol.1 or Vol.2, tho, me donts remember any more, alas :/

― t**t, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 14:32 (5 years ago) Permalink

good lord i love eric dolphy. "hat and beard"!

― strongohulkington, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 14:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

I'll raise my hand as another rock guy who fell head-over-heels for Dolphy the minute I heard him. (No homo.)

Still my favorite jazz soloist, especially in contexts like the Mingus stuff or Ole! where he has a strong foil.

― Jon Lewis, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 15:07 (5 years ago) Permalink

booker little is a totally underrated trumpet player btw who died at the age of 23

― deej, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 15:33 (5 years ago) Permalink

Love the vol.1 and 2 Dolphy/Little 5 Spot albums! Little's playing is awesome on there. Have the vol.3 which is actually titled something like Booker Little Memorial Album, but haven't warmed to that one yet.

― Jon Lewis, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 15:38 (5 years ago) Permalink

S: Charles Mingus, The Great concert of Charles Mingus

D: Fuckers who let him die without treatment cause they thought he was overdosing.

― Oilyrags, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 15:40 (5 years ago) Permalink

So glad I got Out to Lunch in the Tower implosion. Long overdue.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 15:42 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, Dolphy's circumstance of death is still teeth-grindingly maddening today.

― Jon Lewis, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 15:57 (5 years ago) Permalink

I read somewhere recently that in his last days he was basically living on honey and weed. What a waste.

― Marcello Carlin, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 16:00 (5 years ago) Permalink

That doesn't sound like good fare for a diabetic. Well, the honey anyhow. Don't know about the weed.

― Jon Lewis, Wednesday, 6 June 2007 16:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

7 months pass...

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 3 February 2008 06:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

Don't know if you guys can see that, but it was supposed to be the cover of Ron Carter's Where?, on which Dolphy plays real goodly.

I heard Out to Lunch for the first time last Spring and was disappointed to find it didn't really do anything for me, but I'm loving the shit out of his playing on this. Maybe I'll give it another shot.

Loving the sound of the bass clarinet!

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 3 February 2008 06:15 (5 years ago) Permalink

one of my favorite pieces of music film. dolphy's gotta be, what, a few months from death there?

― tipsy mothra, Sunday, 3 February 2008 06:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

can't really fathom 'Out to Lunch' "not doing anything" to anyone predisposed to like Dolphy ... I mean that's just crazy, it's his masterpiece

― Stormy Davis, Sunday, 3 February 2008 08:11 (5 years ago) Permalink

well i guess maybe those solo "God Bless the Child" are his masterpiece, but in terms of ALBUMS ...

― Stormy Davis, Sunday, 3 February 2008 08:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

I know, right? I was surprised too. I need to run by it again.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 3 February 2008 08:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

ah .. it is what it is .. you also might wanna make your way toward that Coltrane 'Europe Tours' box set .. much of which had been bootlegged for a while but finally came out when that Pablo box was released a couple of years ago. Just a fucking insane pairing .. we all know the Village Vanguard LP, but the Europe tour was insanity in its niceness

― Stormy Davis, Sunday, 3 February 2008 08:28 (5 years ago) Permalink

Will keep an eye out, thanks.

Still saving up for the Seven Steps box, though!

Gah Columbia & your exorbitantly priced 34 disc sets

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Sunday, 3 February 2008 08:35 (5 years ago) Permalink

can't really fathom 'Out to Lunch' "not doing anything" to anyone predisposed to like Dolphy ... I mean that's just crazy, it's his masterpiece

I understand OTL "not doing anything" for a Dolphy fan. I love Dolphy, and before a major CD theft a couple of years ago, I had just about everything he's ever played on. "Out To Lunch" is great, but it's awfully mannered. I understand Blue Note allowed for lots of rehearsal time, and I'm not averse to rehearsing per se, but OTL sounds rehearsed to me, in a way that doesn't serve the music as well as I'd like it to.

I personally much prefer the "Iron Man" and "Conversations" sessions from the previous year, compiled as "Dolphy Sound," featuring Woody Shaw, Bobby Hutcherson, Clifford Jordan, Prince Lasha, Sonny Simmons...

― Usual Channels, Sunday, 3 February 2008 14:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

supposedly tony williams lobbied hard to get dolphy in miles' band (in the position later filled by wayne shorter). miles was dead against it, but holy shit, can you imagine?

― Lawrence the Looter, Sunday, 3 February 2008 20:57 (5 years ago) Permalink

That would've been crazy.

That rejection would have come before Sam Rivers' short tenure in Davis' band, meaning that Williams must have had a pretty serious mission trying to get Miles with more "out" musicians.

― Usual Channels, Sunday, 3 February 2008 21:11 (5 years ago) Permalink

williams loved the avant-garde players. he used to sit in with cecil taylor, bill dixon, and others in the loft above the village vanguard during set breaks when miles' band was playing downstairs. miles wasn't happy about it, especially when williams expressed his preference for, and desire to play with, the more "out" musicians (dixon reportedly advised williams to stick with miles: "i'm not working. cecil's not working. miles is working.")

― Lawrence the Looter, Sunday, 3 February 2008 21:31 (5 years ago) Permalink

Lawrence, do you know what the loft above the Vanguard was called? Or what years it was active?

I'm interested in the lofts in NYC (I interviewed Rivers at the former site of Rivbea, Joe Lee Wilson at the former site of Ladies Fort, etc.)...

― Usual Channels, Sunday, 3 February 2008 22:19 (5 years ago) Permalink

i think at that time (early/mid 60s) it was known as the Contemporary Center.

― Lawrence the Looter, Monday, 4 February 2008 04:52 (5 years ago) Permalink

― am0n, Monday, 4 February 2008 05:00 (5 years ago) Permalink

ok that looks awesome

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Monday, 4 February 2008 05:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

First place I ever heard "Green Dolphin Street."

― Oilyrags, Monday, 4 February 2008 05:39 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, one of teh three great "Out..." Dolphy albums, with "Out There" and "Out To Lunch"!

― Myonga Vön Bontee, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 00:49 (5 years ago) Permalink

speaking of "Free Jazz," nobody has mentioned Free Jazz: A Collective Improvisation By The Ornette Coleman Double Quartet

I haven't heard a ton of Dolphy, but love everything I've heard. Ingenuity, Integrity, Soul.

― nicky lo-fi, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 09:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

Brian Case once (approvingly) described Dolphy's bass clarinet as "snorting like a happy hippo" which I think entirely apt.

― Dingbod Kesterson, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 09:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

I attended a Cecil Taylor workshop a year or two ago where he talked about the sole time he played with Dolphy, in a loft on 14th street. CT admitted that he was not able to figure out what Dolphy was doing, and therefore not able to play with him effectively.

― Usual Channels, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 14:55 (5 years ago) Permalink

...This confounded me and my expectations.

― Usual Channels, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 14:57 (5 years ago) Permalink

In a way, I can see what Cecil means. Dolphy often made big harmonic/melodic leaps, whereas someone like Jimmy Lyons stayed within certain harmonic regions for longer periods.

― Sara Sara Sara, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 16:04 (5 years ago) Permalink

I agree with you, Sarax3, considering Lyons plus some of CT's other reed-playing sidemen of the era. Lyons was definitely of a Charlie Parker mold, Shepp was awfully blues-based, and Ayler, though clearly steeped in his own conception, didn't exactly have an impenetrable system.

It makes sense that two artists with such developed and unique methods of playing and composing may have trouble being compatible.

Still, when I think of the skill, imagination, and vitality of both artists, I easily imagine them finding common ground. (Hence, the confounding...)

― Usual Channels, Tuesday, 5 February 2008 23:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

Curious how Dolphy seemed to fit into the music of that other renegade/revolutionary pianist Little Richard fairly comfortably (have a look at the horn section the next time you watch The Girl Can't Help It - there he is, complete with trademark goatee).

Also his successful spell with Chico Hamilton probably indicated that more space was an advantage for him - note how on Out To Lunch he uses Bobby Hutcherson's vibes instead of piano.

― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 08:17 (5 years ago) Permalink

Dingbod--that's insane!

Are we sure?

I've never heard of Dolphy with Little Richard, I can only find a blog entry mentioning it, and if memory serves, the Simosko bio/disco makes no mention. I even tooled around on Youtube, to no avail...

― Usual Channels, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 10:25 (5 years ago) Permalink

He's definitely on there, though.

I remember watching the film as a kid on Saturday afternoon BBC2 and my dad pointed him out (first on the left?) and it was definitely him. Dolphy's presence was confirmed in the NME about ten years later.

― Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 10:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

Neat!

― Usual Channels, Wednesday, 6 February 2008 11:25 (5 years ago) Permalink

Is the sound on the RVG edition of Out to Lunch significantly better than the original issue CD (which I have)? Some of those RVG's can be a bit hit and miss. I'm in Tokyo right now so perhaps I should consider picking up one of the Japanese edtions...

― sam500, Thursday, 7 February 2008 00:43 (5 years ago) Permalink

I think the sound might be why I was so turned off by it the first time!

It was my first RVG and I was horrified. Then I realized it was a trend, but I haven't gone back to OTL since.

― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Thursday, 7 February 2008 00:44 (5 years ago) Permalink

yeah, we had the RVG discussion on one or two other threads. Short version: avoid them

― Hurting 2, Thursday, 7 February 2008 00:45 (5 years ago) Permalink

thanks for the advice :)

― sam500, Thursday, 7 February 2008 00:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

fwiw it took me a while to realize. it was totally "doth my ears deceive me?" b/c I knew RVG had engineered so many originally great-sounding records. I think it was the Maiden Voyage that pushed me over the edge, but I only felt sure of my opinion once I realized that others were experiencing the same

― Hurting 2, Thursday, 7 February 2008 01:01 (5 years ago) Permalink

some of the RVG's that i've heard have been a bit on the bright side. and an overly 'bright' sounding OTL would be too tiring for my ears.

― sam500, Thursday, 7 February 2008 01:05 (5 years ago) Permalink

4 years pass...

Charles Mingus said, "Usually, when a man dies, you remember—or you say you remember—only the good things about him. With Eric, that's all you could remember. I don't remember any drags he did to anybody. The man was absolutely without a need to hurt".

― omar little, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 01:39 (7 months ago) Permalink

buy everything you see with his name on it.

― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, July 14, 2005 6:34 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

― jalapeno kloppers (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 01:53 (7 months ago) Permalink

DOLPHY PO5:

At the Five Spot vol. 1 w/Booker Little
Coltrane - Ole
Mingus Town Hall 1964
Out There
Coltrane - Village Vanguard

Dolphy was the first jazz musician whose soloing I instinctively responded to, and remains foremost for me...

― Lewis Apparition (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 15:38 (7 months ago) Permalink

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