Was/Is Morrissey Racist?

and pissing your one shot at having a life away in an office is demented or purblind idiocy kids rent or no

but i'm sure there are plenty of profiteers who are happy for peeps to keep ruining themselves in the name of pragmatism

difficult to blame even Morrissey for the ills of capitalism TBF

no in this instance i'm siding with him

and pissing your one shot at having a life away in an office is demented or purblind idiocy kids rent or no

you're right -- our parents should have been demented, purblind pop stars instead.

xposts Sure, we should all fuck off our office jobs and live in squats. But tell that to a working class family man who's just lost his life's vocation. Saying "Oh you should get off your arse and do a picture" is just mind-bogglingly hypocritical. And who's going to buy these extraordinary works if everyone follows this sage advice?

i didn't say that Morrissey had a sensible answer - but it is a sensible complaint. anyway, onwards and downwards thru realism.

NV OTM

(caps for emphasis)

Yeah. If only the several billion strong world wide proletariat had Nouvelle Vague's devastating insight into capitalism over the last 100 years we'd now live in a Utopian paradise.

What was my dad thinking working his entire life in a factory for a pittance? He should have held out to become an astronaut.

If anything, Morrissey is revealing that it was the late 70s/early 80s when he was signing on. Probably the only time you could have just about got away with being an artist on the dole. Certainly, this was becoming all but impossible by the mid 90s.

lol that didn't take long.

Morrissey is an idiot. I prefer to listen to Crass for these sorts of insights:

Fuck the politically minded, here's something I want to say,
About the state of nation, the way it treats us today.
At school they give you shit, drop you in the pit,
You try, you try, you try to get out, but you can't because they've fucked you about.
Then you're a prime example of how they must not be,
This is just a sample of what they've done to you and me.

Do they owe us a living?
Of course they do, of course they do.
Owe us a living?
Of course they do, of course they do.
Owe us a living?
OF COURSE THEY FUCKING DO.

Don't want me anymore, cos I threw it on the floor.
Used to call me sweet thing, I'm nobody's plaything,
And now that I am different, you'd love to bust my head,
You'd love to see me cop-out, you'd love to see me dead.

Do they owe us a living?
Of course they do, of course they do.
Owe us a living?
Of course they do, of course they do.
Owe us a living?
OF COURSE THEY FUCKING DO.

The living that is owed to me I'm never going to get,
They've buggered this old world up, up to their necks in debt.
They'd give you a lobotomy for something you ain't done,
They'll make you an epitome of everything that's wrong.

Do they owe us a living?
Of course they do, of course they do.
Owe us a living?
Of course they do, of course they do.
Owe us a living?
OF COURSE THEY FUCKING DO.

Don't take any notice of what the public think,
They're so hyped up with T.V., they just don't want to think.
They'll use you as a target for demands and for advice,
When you don't want to hear it they'll say you're full of vice.

Do they owe us a living?
Of course they do, of course they do.
Owe us a living?
Of course they do, of course they do.
Owe us a living?
OF COURSE THEY FUCKING DO.

more like Kentucky Fried Crass

on another tip... what's the general opinion of M's current band? they seemed woeful on the Glastonbury footage I saw. They were doing a cover of Shoplifters Of The World iirc, which is admittedly a tricky one to pull off. They made a much decenter fist of Everyday Is Like Sunday.

xp lol

Oi Poulet

i like Moz's solo bands better than the Smiths but then i have a barely rational hatred of johnny marrzzzzz nowadays

and Doran, the fact that your dad or my dad worked their lives away in a factory doesn't make them idiots perhaps but it don't make them wrong either. and the continual fucking of the working class relies on our own complaisant pragmatism.

don't make them right either hohoho woops

Stalin was big on the dignity of labour tho iirc. if work was that great then the exploiter class wd keep it to themselves innit?

Agree with John D that being an artist on the dole was a far more possible thing to do in Morrissey’s time. Rents were still low and you could live a pretty decent life (a very different story for families though). If you wanted to get something going musically you could also apply for the Enterprise Allowance Scheme (one of Thatcher’s very few decent ideas and one the present Government would do well to bring back) and get your forty quid a week for equipment and so on.

Yes, we should all be writing and painting and so on instead of breaking our backs or boring ourselves to death for thirty-five hours a week just to get by but that means changing society. Not that I’m against the latter (on the contrary) but changing society means a hell of a lot of hard work.

you're right about the 80s and of course we shd remember Moz is not really a family guy

If anything, Morrissey is revealing that it was the late 70s/early 80s when he was signing on. Probably the only time you could have just about got away with being an artist on the dole.

Don't think it was that difficult in the 60s and (earlier) 70s either... and probably before that too... didn't Quentin Crisp sign on for 40-odd years or somehting?

Yeah, QC of Beaufort Street! I’ll have to read The Naked Civil Servant again but from memory he made a living of sorts from being a model for students at the Chelsea School of Art. Can’t remember whether he signed on though.

you're right about the 80s and of course we shd remember Moz is not really a family guy

― i'm sorry for whatever (Noodle Vague), Friday, 29 July 2011 14:19 (26 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

"No kidding Lois. This reminds me of when I got in a fight with Brian"

hahahahahaha

Moz is not really a family guy

Well he's a fat idiot who's worn the same clothes and had the same hairstyle for years

Peter G makes me laugh tho

He's playing in Lokeren (Belgium) next Thursday. Not only has he forbidden the sale of all meat products on the day he's playing (cue extra security because of everyone's plan to throw meat at him - this is a region famous for horsemeat and the horse sausages are famous) and now... this. (organiser has already defended inviting him before yesterday's news, and now he's been forced to repeat in the papers that Morrissey is still playing)

Um... reread your sentences, StanM. famous, horse, we get it.

does he ban beer cigs and black people from his gigs too?

I know you meant "in the venue" but it's kind of hilarious to imagine Morrissey trying to stop an entire city from selling meat products on the day of his show

It's on a closed off square, outside.

now all they need is a patty-shaped catapult..

NV: I don't really want to get into an argument about this but I would say my Dad as a socialist/autodidact is probably aware of what you're saying but also as someone who missed a couple of years of secondary school due to evacuation and the bombing of L'pool during WW2, who then left school with no qualifications into a then rigidly stratified society, he just didn't have the option to do anything else other than manual, skilled labour other than manual unskilled labour. He certainly made it clear to me that he would be righteously pissed off with me if I ever set foot in a factory, given that I had options that he says he didn't. And I make him right.

Moz still doesn't understand the meaning of the word "murder"
http://www.pitchfork.com/news/43367-morrissey-elaborates-on-norway-comments/

that statement is certainly a much better way of making his point even if the logic is based on a provably false assertion ("people feel the same way about the death of animals as they feel about the death of people")

more like Kentucky Fried Crass

did a lol at this

Basically it's the same deal as Lee Ryan blubbing on about 9/11 and elephants and the error is the same: applying the same principle to two very different pretexts.

Most musicians would have taken out an order of protection against Julia Riley, but Morrissey makes her his media outlet.

'The More You Ignore Me The Grosser I Get'.

NV: I don't really want to get into an argument about this

nah me neither, i'm fumbling with what i believe rather than getting bolshy here. and my dad also told me never to work in a factory, but then his aspirations and imagination - and i don't blame him or criticize him really, we are who we are - were too limited to fully understand that white collar wage slavery can be its own hell and not necessarily a better one than the world of making stuff. i will insist that rejecting the work ethic in toto isn't just some foppish bourgie-ism but a strand of left thinking that critiques Marx and his followers' accommodation with the way capitalism works, or the vision of socialism as a liberated worker-run capitalism. it's not the only vision as far as i'm concerned.

It's a really interesting argument for me, and I'm also very conflicted, NV and Doran. I guess it's the difference between old school socialism, liberal idealism and anarchism as protest - all ideologues I guess I've flirted with through life. It's also a massive chink in the armour of left-thinking, one that can easily be set upon by right-wing rhetoric: "So you want to work, but you don't want to work? Sounds like the moon on a stick".

left-ism has to be more than "democratic control of the means of production of crap we don't need and the planet can't afford" now more than ever

^^^^^^^^this

THIS FUCKIN' GUY:

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Observer/Columnist/Columnists/2012/3/9/1331316088975/morrissey-007.jpg

why is he the only one not wearing one? does he not agree with the slogan?

Angie Hart's ex refusing to get on the all-pie diet, there

Peter Paphides is pretty good here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/10/debate-morrissey-national-treasure?intcmp=ILCMUSTXT9385

I'm not a royalist, but pictures of his band lined up either side of him on his recent Argentinian tour, wearing "We hate William and Kate" T-shirts, momentarily made me feel like becoming one.

oh fuck off. Moz is a racist idiot who makes me wanna eat kitten steaks every time he opines about animals but the royal fucking family deserve no scintilla of yr sympathy.

why do they hate william and kate so much?