Vinegar Joe, Greenslade, Steamhammer, Gracious, Gravy Train: Who does what and did they do it well?

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Some of these are prog and one is rock 'n' roll. But mostly I've no idea, so who does what and is it worth a little ear damage?

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:11 (nineteen years ago) link

As far as I can see they have one thing in common, they're all shite

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Vinegar Joe was Elkie Brooks, Robert Palmer et al.

The others I don't kno. Arthur Greenslade? umm.

mark grout (mark grout), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Dave, it might have been good if it had been Arthur

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:16 (nineteen years ago) link

Dave Greenslade. Also played with Colosseum, I think. Noodly keys, Roger Dean cover art. I sold the two Greenslade LP's I owned long ago, and don't miss 'em. Same with my Vinegar Joe record.

Daniel Peterson (polkaholic), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:21 (nineteen years ago) link

Vinegar Joe Rules, You Fucks!

(Just kidding--I don't know.)

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:24 (nineteen years ago) link

No love here for Tucky Buzzard?

(Just kidding--I don't know.)

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:27 (nineteen years ago) link

i have a steamhammer album that is pretty good. i think their guitarist went on to keith relf's armageddon (which as everyone knows, is one of the great progressive hard-rock albums of all time.) i was actually listening to it the other day (the steamhammer album) and i can't recall much about it! there are horns and stuff. some nice guitar-work too. (i think it's their first album)

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:30 (nineteen years ago) link

i like tucky buzzard.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:30 (nineteen years ago) link

tucky buzzard were better when they were a psych band though.(different name)

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:30 (nineteen years ago) link

Ha ha. They're a kind of shorthand I use for crap unloved 70s rock bands who sold 3 records in 1971.

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:31 (nineteen years ago) link

They were called The End and were Bill Wyman's pet project... well that and shagging schoolgirls

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:32 (nineteen years ago) link

Gracious were prog, I had their s/t album, on vertigo swirl label, and sold it for a decent amount of money. Their keyboard player played harpsichord, which I suppose was their USP. The album I had was about 1/2 good, but the good half I thought was very good - nice tunes, good band sound, pleasing production sound. I bought a CD reissue on Repertoire, and I get it out and listen to it quite often.

I've heard some of the other bands listed, but can't remember anything about them except for Greenslade's Roger Dean covers.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:34 (nineteen years ago) link

I also had the end's album. it was piss, largely.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:34 (nineteen years ago) link

Do you mean the Endd? They're on one of the Rubble comps.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:34 (nineteen years ago) link

They had one good song I think

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:35 (nineteen years ago) link

Steamhammer moved to Germany or recorded in Germany, they had records released on Brain - one of them ended up in Tangerine Dream for a while, until they realised he was shite and flung him out.

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:37 (nineteen years ago) link

Actually most of the vertigo prog bands I've heard are one-good-song types, the best thing about Gracious is that their good song covers a whole side.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:38 (nineteen years ago) link

That would be Steve Joliffe, he was actually in one of the pre-recording contract TD lineups, with Klaus Schultze on drums. I was going to say he made a good album, but the good album I was thinking of was by Johannes Schmoelling. I saw Steve Joliffe live once, and he had a juggler on stage whilst he was playing. (!!)

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:39 (nineteen years ago) link

German bands were always getting in British musicians who were crap, because they had a bit of an inferiority complex about trying to play rock music and they assumed that Brits and Americans were better at that sort of thing

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:40 (nineteen years ago) link

Steve Joliffe, yes, he ruins a couple of mid to late 70s TDream albums - possibly "Cyclone"?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:41 (nineteen years ago) link

What about Beggar's Opera and Cressida? More of the same?

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:41 (nineteen years ago) link

Re. English guys in German bands: Are you talking about the guy in Amon Duul II?

I sure to seem to see used copies of Greenslade albums around a lot. Why? A lot people bought them?

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:42 (nineteen years ago) link

German bands were always getting in British musicians who were crap, because they had a bit of an inferiority complex about trying to play rock music and they assumed that Brits and Americans were better at that sort of thing

Kin Ping Meh. German band that imported either a Brit or an American to sing southern rock on the thing I have. Even has an artist-y drawing of the statue of liberty.

Weed to thread. What did Weed sound like?

And how was Plastic Penny?

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:44 (nineteen years ago) link

"Cyclone" is the one w/him on, and it would probably have been pretty ropey even w/o his singing.

The guy in Amon Duul = Dave Anderson from Hawkwind, I think. They were certainly less good after he left.

"Asylum" is the Cressida album I have on CD. It's another one-good-track album. They were a bit wishy-washy, and the singer was a bit weak, but OK-ish, if yer not paying collector money.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:45 (nineteen years ago) link

German bands were always getting in British musicians who were crap...

E.g., Embryo - 1st album has a guitarist who played with......... Ten Years After! Actually he's quite good and thankfully sounds nothing like Alvin Lee.

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:47 (nineteen years ago) link

Actually I'm being a bit harsh on "Asylum". When I had the great winnowing of sub-standard collector's prog, it was one of the albums I bought again on CD. There's this long organ/guitar solo break on it that you could probably drop right into "9 feet underground" if you made it a little bit less gnarly sounding and a bit more on the one.

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:52 (nineteen years ago) link

i really like the song "time will be your doctor" by tucky buzzard.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 17:57 (nineteen years ago) link

The curious rise of The Groundhogs as a name for hipsters to drop should have alerted me to the fact that greasy-haired RAF-greatcoat type rock played by ugly guys who look about 48 when they were only 23 at the time had a potential new market

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Savoy Brown remains unhip, however.

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:04 (nineteen years ago) link

(btw, my bad, the Endd were U.S. group--mixing the Endd up with the End.)

Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:04 (nineteen years ago) link

savoy brown are way hip in my house. but so are the groundhogs.


i need this album:

http://www.popsike.com/php/detaildata.php?itemnr=2599175838

actually, i need all their stuff. i have one album by them on harvest that i really dig.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:06 (nineteen years ago) link

I'm not dissing The Groundhogs, just that if you'd told me 5 years ago that they'd be a name to drop I'd have laughed myself silly. Savoy Brown have some connection with Foghat don't they?

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:09 (nineteen years ago) link

I tend to avoid "psychedelic" albums from 1969, it started getting all boring and blusey and "heavy" around that time

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:10 (nineteen years ago) link

i need all the jackson heights records too. i only have king progress (which i love).

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:11 (nineteen years ago) link

I used to have that live double album "Hogging the Stage", it was fucking fierce. Did that ever come out on CD I wonder?

Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:11 (nineteen years ago) link

i'm kinda surprised that hipsters don't have status quo parties. that would be kinda cool.

when malkmus was still in pavement he would rave about the groundhogs. there ya go.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Naw, Savoy Brown -- way above the submarket prog bands I asked about. "Blue Matter" is Foghat before Foghat, screwed. The endless boogie side of "A Step Further," if you keep Quo out of the equation, defines the heads-down-no-nonsense-mindless-boogie rave.

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Broheems, You Do Need A Copy Of Black Diamond! A.K.A. The Groundhogs Thread

i heart groundhogs.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:15 (nineteen years ago) link

I used to have that live double album "Hogging the Stage", it was fucking fierce. Did that ever come out on CD I wonder?

Yes, as "Hogging the Stage." Remastered a year or so ago and reissued as "Groundhogs at Leeds." I pointed it out to Chuck once and he proclaimed it to be noise although his opinion has, perhaps, changed.

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:15 (nineteen years ago) link

Status Quo were massive in the UK tho so no-go for UK hipsters. Mind you The Groundhogs were pretty big too for a while

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:16 (nineteen years ago) link

savoy brown were da bomb.

yeah, status quo never had a big presence in the u.s. not like foghat! who, i believe, were way bigger in the u.s. then in the u.k. (or legend has it, i'm not a stat-checker.)

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:18 (nineteen years ago) link

what about hipsters and their Patto-love? Did you see that coming? You can blame Mojo for a lot of these, probably.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:19 (nineteen years ago) link

For the best Mike Vernon-produced albums, Savoy Brown was Foghat under direction of Kim Simmonds and with Chris Youlden as singer. Lonesome Dave sang quite a bit, too, but wasn't the frontman.
Youlden left around "Raw Sienna." Foghat decamped next, after "Looking In." Foghat did a lot better in the states. Youlden disappeared.

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:20 (nineteen years ago) link

i've never heard chris youlden's solo records.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:21 (nineteen years ago) link

what about hipsters and their Patto-love?

Who loves Patto? I have their albums and listen hardly at all. Patto were pretty thorny odd art-rock. You had to be into Ollie Halsall because he kind of stomped all over the good singer. Didn't Patto try to get more accessible as Boxer? That didn't work so good, either.

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:24 (nineteen years ago) link

Foghat did shit in the UK, back in the days when the US and UK charts were totally different from each other. Quo had a poppy edge to them that probably explains their popularity in the UK, they're closer to a Grand Funk Railroad. All that heavy blues rock stuff seemed more popular in the States, hence Humble Pie, "Live at Fillmore" etc - which sold about 5 copies in the UK.

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:25 (nineteen years ago) link

And I'm still asking about Gravy Train? Like Hookfoot or May Blitz? May Blitz cover art ruled but my friend bit on reissues and they were really not enticing to him.

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:28 (nineteen years ago) link

"Cyclone" is the one w/him on, and it would probably have been pretty ropey even w/o his singing.

I agree - I wouldn't put the state of Tangerine Dream albums at that time down to Mr. Joliffe.

Pangolino again, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:32 (nineteen years ago) link

All that heavy blues rock stuff seemed more popular in the States, hence Humble Pie, "Live at Fillmore" etc - which sold about 5 copies in the UK.

You got that right. The heartlands -- now we call them "the red states" -- really went down hard for the heavy boogie and blues shouter. That probably explains something of why Status Quo didn't do so well. Quo definintely had no manly man blues shouters. Saw them open for Slade and Black Sabbath at a sold out show in Philly many years ago, and the crowd was puzzled. Bob Young came out and played harmonica for the set, which made them look somewhat like a more unkempt version of Sha-Na-Na.

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:33 (nineteen years ago) link

Francis Rossi's voice was hardly well suited to "manly blues shouters"

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:35 (nineteen years ago) link

Weedy, but he really made it work for Quo. "Railroad" -- man, I liked that one.

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:37 (nineteen years ago) link

I like his voice!

Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 18:42 (nineteen years ago) link

Hey, don't mistake me. I'm a fan of Status Quo. Rossi can write songs all right by me. Those guys play mean Tele-rhythm, too. Very, very few people have their attack.

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 19:02 (nineteen years ago) link

I guess we have to include Nutz here, too. Was there any love for Nutz in the UK? Precious little in the US although they did get to put out a few albums.

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 19:05 (nineteen years ago) link

hookfoot, jesus...

i have steamhammer's "speech," the album that was only released in germany. i gather it's nothing like their earlier work, these tracks are guitar/bass/drums/vocals tracks in proggy exploration style complete with a faux-eastern chanting/droning introduction. i enjoy it. at least one of the tracks wound up in radically different form on the armageddon album.

el sabor de gene (yournullfame), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 19:09 (nineteen years ago) link

"Hella Nervous" by gravy train!!! is fucking kryptonite to me, all the "indie" girls in my house lurve it and i'm disgusted by its total lameness.

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 19:09 (nineteen years ago) link

Hi deej:

Not Hello Doctor!

This Gravy Train --

Ballad of a Peaceful Man.

Although I understand why it the former is giving you a rash.

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 19:15 (nineteen years ago) link

I see hmm well i should clearly read threads before participating in them.

djdee2005 (djdee2005), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 19:24 (nineteen years ago) link

I have Gravy Train's Ballad of a Peaceful Man! I don't remember a single thing about it! I think it has some vaguely Tull-ish action going on? Haha -- I love how Tull becomes the fallback point of comparison for a prog group that one is a bit, ah, lukewarm toward. Actually, I definitely didn't hate the Gravy Train record or anything. I still have it, I will try to listen again. I think I bought it back when I was scooping up all the Vertigo CD reissues on Repertoire. I never did get the Cressida thing. What about Ben?? Has anybody heard Ben? What a silly name.

Like Hookfoot or May Blitz? May Blitz cover art ruled but my friend bit on reissues and they were really not enticing to him.

Have you heard the May Blitz things George? I think you'd really like them! Maybe the 2nd album moreso; the first album is a little plodding in places, but I still love it. Who are Hookfoot? I've never heard of them. But if they sound like May Blitz I will definitely have to investigate.

Weed to thread. What did Weed sound like?

Haha -- I actually think Weed are the only Ken Hensley / URiah Heep affiliated offshoot that I have NOT heard! I've been meaning to pick that thing up forever. But, um, anybody got any Rough Diamonds or Head Machine or Byron Band questions?

Stormy Davis (diamond), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 20:39 (nineteen years ago) link

Y'see, there's this CD store going out of business up the street from me. The owner banked on being able to tab an audience that went for lots of the things we're discussing here but the rent killed him before he had the time to get the revenue coming in. So a great deal of this stuff is going out the door at slight discount.

Hookfoot wound up as Elton John sidemen. Caleb Quaye was the guitarist and their rekkids were that mix of clueless folkie hard rock, simpleton's prog and blooz that quite a few Brits fell into around that time. There was always one or two heavy or near heavy songs -- probably accidental -- on their records. Maybe call them a Brit Crazy Horse, only darker and slower sounding. Produced by Gus Dudgeon.

Never Have heard May Blitz. Have seen the reissues on Akarma [?!] but did not take the plunge. Was Tony Newman the drummer?

Yeah, Weed I've not heard, either. How 'bout a Toe Fat report?

They also have a Grootna (or is it Groonta???) CD which looked to me like it's in Scott Seward territory.

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 20:51 (nineteen years ago) link

Oh yeah, and what about Illinois Speed Press, who were 'Merican? Or more importanty, If, who where Brit and look like they were "shite" -- to borrow from Dadaismus.

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 21:03 (nineteen years ago) link

this was my toe fat-inspired thread:

Rolling Late-60's/Early-70's Thud-Rock Thread


I have never heard Grootna OR Groonta. I loooooove the Illinois Speed Press album I have!!! It's great. And I own one really good Wild Turkey album and one really bad Wild Turkey album.

scott seward (scott seward), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 21:07 (nineteen years ago) link

I may have to shit. Look at this!

Gnidrolog's "Lady Lake."

The one-star review is what's doing it for me. Two chord folk prog jamming!

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 21:09 (nineteen years ago) link

Yeah, Tony Newman was the drummer for May Blitz .. actually, haha, their ORIGINAL drummer was apparently Keith Baker from Bakerloo -- whos' heard THEM?? -- and who went on to be in ... Uriah Heep! Where is Pete Frame when we need him? but seriously George I think you would really dig The 2nd of May and probably the first one too.

I listened to one Illinois Speed Press record many years ago at my college radio station, but I don't remember much about it. I think Scott is a fan though.

haha, IF -- jesus, I have like 3 of their records for some ungodly reason. Now THERE is a band that also sounded "like Tull."

Toe Fat are ... ehh. Not very good. I think it makes sense that Motown put them out on Rare Earth in the States .. I think they kind of sound like a bad British Rare Earth. Of course I own the record with Ken Hensley on it though.

Stormy Davis (diamond), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 21:11 (nineteen years ago) link

I have both Wild Turkey albums and I can't remember the difference. Which one is better? Battle Hymn? yeah, I seem to recall Battle Hymn being better that Turkey.

oh, I know what I forget to mention, I bought Egg's first album on Saturday. It's really good! Then again I am a sucker for that kind of stuff. I already had The Polite Force, but I'd never heard the first one. Man, ELP TOTALLY copped their steez from Egg.

Stormy Davis (diamond), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 21:14 (nineteen years ago) link

Keith Baker from Bakerloo -- whos' heard THEM?? -- and who went on to be in ... Uriah Heep!

Hey, Clem Clempson was IN Bakerloo, too. And "Bakerloo" was really trying to cash in on Jeff Beck during his heavy white boy blooz thing. Or that's what it sounds like to me.

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 21:17 (nineteen years ago) link

Clem Clempson was in EVERY BAND EVER. He was also in Rough Diamond with Byron.

Stormy Davis (diamond), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 21:19 (nineteen years ago) link

That's right! Didn't Dave croak shortly afterwards? I remember the ads in mags for Rough Diamond. They were supposed to be a supergroup with guys you never heard of, except Byron, who you'd only heard of if you loved the mighty Heep. What did they sound like?

I bought the Natural Gas LP around the same time period. Another supergroup: Joey Molland, Jerry Shirley, some guy named Clarke who played bass for HEEP before Gary Thain. I can't remember a damn song on it! And I played it at least once or twice a week. Maybe I should buy it again. I've never seen a copy since.

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 21:24 (nineteen years ago) link

am I the only Ancient Grease fan on ILM? actually what am I talking about, I'm not an Ancient Grease fan. That album kinda blows, I don't even know why I have it. I don't know why I have a lot of the records I have, truth be told.

Stormy Davis (diamond), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 21:24 (nineteen years ago) link

the Rough Diamond album is .. completely forgettable. at least, I've completely forgotten it. Byron's voice wasn't all that hot at that point. I do remember that much. Yeah, I think he was in a bad way....

Never heard of the Natural Gas record before! But wow, Jerry Shirley, he's one of my absolute favorite drummers from that whole scene, so I will look out for it. And Gary Thain is one of my absolute favorite bass players from that whole scene! always nice to see him get mentioned on ILM. I've always meant to check out some Keef Hartley stuff, but I heard it's kind of horn-rock or something? I mean Chicago & BST I can dig, sure, but I'm not so sure about British horn-rock. Then again I love the Colosseum record I have so who knows.

Stormy Davis (diamond), Tuesday, 22 February 2005 21:29 (nineteen years ago) link

Natural Gas: Apparently people had high hopes at the time. Or it's the pure milk of human kindness at work.

Billboard's Top Album Picks
NATURAL GAS-Private Stock PS 2011.Good basic rock that avoids heavy metal formula and opts songs that keep away from purely AM themes and heavy use of keyboards and guitars. LP is a set of 10 songs from ex-Humble Pie Jerry Shirley. ex-Uriah Heep Mark Clarke and top studio man Peter Wood that depends on songs more than long instrumental breaks.The one long guitar solo is a tasteful Molland piece that closes a song. Group appears to be filling a current musical gap, capturing the general feeling of fun that characterized British rock in the 60's as well as the musical skill necessary for today's audiences.
Best cuts:"Once Again A Love Song,""You Can Do It,""I Believe It's Love,""The Right Time,""Dark Croud."
Dealers:Stress groups background.

Record World / Hits Of The Week
"NATURAL GAS"Those who believed that the day of supergroup formations ended with Bad Company should make themselves aware of Natural Gas. With Joey Molland (Badfinger), Jerry Shirley (Humble Pie), Mark Clarke (Uriah Heep), and Peter Wood (Sutherlands & Quiver) as the primary components and Felix Pappalardi producing, the hit formula is there.

CASH BOX / Album Reviews
"Natural Gas" Covering some solid ground from rock to moving ballads and quite a bit in between this LP is indeed a natural gas! the rich sounds generated by the superb musicianship displayed herein are only made richer and more substantial by the production work of the rock master.Felix Pappalardi Both AM pop and FM progressive markets will find much to be pleased with here-"Little Darlin'" and "The Right Time"are both sure shots in the pop vein while the entire album will find a happy home on the progressive airwaves

George Smith, Tuesday, 22 February 2005 21:35 (nineteen years ago) link

[bump]

mark s (mark s), Saturday, 26 February 2005 01:01 (nineteen years ago) link

nine years pass...

Listening to the first Greenslade album today, and it's amazing how many of the songs I can sing along with after not hearing it for nigh on 40 years! I'm liking it a lot better than I remembered I did in my post 9 years ago.

Deliciously hard yet very accessible (Dan Peterson), Thursday, 23 October 2014 22:00 (nine years ago) link

two years pass...

sunkissed you're not; devil-kissed you are

reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 15 September 2017 17:19 (six years ago) link

five years pass...

the 1st song on greenslade's "spyglass guest" seemed instantly familiar when i 1st played that tecord, was it used as a tv theme or something?

donald wears yer troosers (doo rag), Monday, 3 October 2022 23:37 (one year ago) link

*record

donald wears yer troosers (doo rag), Monday, 3 October 2022 23:38 (one year ago) link


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