Led Zeppelin: Classic Or Dud?

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Fred says Led Zeppelin rock and I'm a wimpy Brit who can't feel the noize. I say Led Zep suck and Fred's punching at straw men. Who's right? Both of us? Neither?

Tom, Wednesday, 27 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

Fred is right here. With most of his points, anyway (Zeppelin did not make their name by playing fast.)

With Zeppelin, the sound is the thing. Tom, you should approach Zep's body of work the way you would Dr. Dre's 2001. Sure, Dre is not the greatest rapper, but he knows how to lay down rhymes that compliment his brilliant productions. I would argue that the same holds true for Page & Plant. The massive, bottom-heavy sound that Page captured with his studio work reaches perfection only with Plant's voice floating on top.

Mark Richardson, Wednesday, 27 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

If you ask me they were the archetypal American teen boy fantasy band -- music for young lads to cruise around in battered pickup trucks smoking weed drinking beer and checking out the chicks. Or at least the soundtrack to which they *fantasize* about doing things like that...

All the while feeling vaguely smug and intellectual because of the Crowley and Tolkien references. Bleargh.

Fred's not totally wrong though -- the Zep had their occaisional moment, but they're still overrated beyond belief. Early Black Sabbath could have them for breakfast!

Nicole, Wednesday, 27 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

Exactly. Why would I ever want to listen to Zeppelin when I could be listening to Sabbath? Or Creedence? Or Daphne & Celeste for bleatsakes? I've heard one Daphne & Celeste song once and it had more of an impact on me than all the Zeppelin I've ever heard put together. I still never recognize Stairway to Heaven until 6 minutes in. I'm all for cruising around in battered pickup trucks smoking weed drinking beer and checking out the chicks, but gimme Kid Rock over Zeppelin any day. Hell, gimme Aerosmith over Zeppelin.

But the best reason to hate Zeppelin, as Nicole pointed out, is that they were a band who sung about J.R.R. Tolkien. I fucking hate Tolkien. J.R.R. fucking Tolkien is not rock 'n roll.

Otis Wheeler, Thursday, 28 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

Fred's probably right when he says he likes Led Zeppelin, but he's most likely wrong when he seems to say that all one has to do to 'get' them is listen to it correctly.

I loathe 'ver Zep', their sweatiness, their ponderousness (is that a word?) and their pretension. I'm very used to listening to music for the noise. Led Zeppelin make a nasty noise.

I don't think I've ever heard a band rock harder than the Roots Radics circa '81, and they sounded *beautiful*.

Tim

Tim, Thursday, 28 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

Otis *is* right on one key point -- Tolkien was never rock and roll. God knows what he thought of all the stuff recorded in the late sixties and early seventies liberally borrowing from him, but hopefully he never had to listen to it.

With regards to the man's general worth, though, we must differ. ;-)

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 28 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

Looks like Zep's going to lose this round, oh well. Not like they need more support anyway. A couple of things:

1) There is nothing even remotely intellectual about Zep or their fans; their music is populism at its finest.

2) Hard to imagine what could be more smug than picking on teenage kids in middle America.

3) Why listen to Zep when you can listen to Sabbath? JOHN BONHAM. Black Sabbath, while masters of the riff (and Reality), had an anemic rhythm section. How many hip-hop groups have sampled Bill Ward's drum parts?

Zep ARE pretty sweaty, though.

Mark Richardson, Thursday, 28 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

Mark's right when he says that Zep are rhythmically superior to Sabbath; unfortunately Sabbath are superior in every other field imaginable.

Fred's right when he says Robert Plant's voice sounds like an escape (specifically, from the stuffiness and politeness of Britain when Plant was growing up) but, you know, you could say the same thing about fucking Merseybeat, for fuck's sake. While at the time they were hailed as an astonishing sonic progression from *that* lot over six years, Zep remind me of what Tom and I once said about the Beatles' hangers-on; you can't deny that they sounded like an escape and a new dawn for certain people listening to them, but that doesn't alter the fact that the music is terrible.

Yeah, Tom's nailed them good and proper.

Robin Carmody, Thursday, 28 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

I refuse to say negative things about a band that has contributed wonderful things like "The Battle Of Evermore", "Black Dog", "Kashmir", "Good Times Bad Times", "The Lemon Song", "D'Yer Maker", and the blueprint for disco-rock "The Immigrant Song". I DEFY you to tell me you couldn't imagine people dancing their asses off to that one.

Why listen to Led Zep when you have Black Sabbath? Because only listening to one band is boring unless it's The Cure or Prince.

Dan Perry, Thursday, 28 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

well, the voice of pitchfork has chipped in...and he has side with ME! case closed.

but seriously (ha ha ha)! tom is oblivious to many of the things that make zep great, unless he's fooled me all of this time and is really into virtuosity and locking rhythm sections. ;) mark, as you say the music isn't really made for or by intellectuals. the concept of "suspension of disbelief" comes to mind, checking your brain at the door, etc., and if you're not up for that then, let me say it again, maybe zep isn't the band for you.

and what's all this talk of sabbath? are the same people who are criticizing robert plant's voice listening to a band fronted by ozzy? certainly, sabbath has created some incredibly sludgy and heavy riffs (and are probably currently a bigger influence than zep) but, as mark says, the rhythm section is weak and, God, i just can't *stand* ozzy. more power to you if you can!

fred solinger, Thursday, 28 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

All this obsession with 'checking your brain at the door' etc. is just silly - brains don't work like that: when you listen to Zep, Fred, your lack of analysis is an analytical choice itself. And if you *really* didn't think about them you'd not have spent so many paragraphs going on about them. I've said it before and I'll say it again: it's a cop-out.

And Pitchfork can kiss my arse ;).

Tom, Friday, 29 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

and i'm here to say that your constant tossing about of the term, "cop-out" is in itself a cop-out, you big bitch.

i write paragraphs about them because i force myself to think about them: normally, zep isn't one of those bands one rattles on about. if i were listening to the music and *thinking* it'd be a conscious effort.

and pitchfork is *still* the internet king of music reviews, if you ask me. maybe -- and this is only a *maybe* -- you'd be in their league if you wrote a review, oh, more than once a month (or when the latest merritt album comes out).

fred solinger, Friday, 29 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

Surely the appreciation of instrumental virtuosity requires the very distancing that Fred says is anathema to the Zep listener? You can't have it both ways, surely? Mind you, I quite like them so I should probably keep my trap shut.

David, Friday, 29 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

One last post and then I really will shut up!

The ironic thing, I've just realised, is that my reaction to Led Zep *is* pretty much 'instinctual' - as I said to Fred in chat a few days ago, the difference is that I'm basically more of a punk than him. So I like Motorhead, he likes Zep, and both of us look around for rationalisations as to why the other one is less rockin'. Having grown up on the British music press and their horror of anything approaching prog or dinosaur rock, my gut instinct is to mistrust the virtuosity and bombast of the Zep: so my negative judgement is based on that 'unthinking' reaction.

Of course, I *could* think myself into liking some of their stuff, but as Fred says, that's hardly the point...

Tom, Friday, 29 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

OK, off the top of my head:

Busta Rhymes - 'This Means War' samples 'Iron Man'

Cypress Hill - 'I Ain't Goin' Out Like That' samples 'The Wizard'

And I'm sure that 'Behind the Wall of Sleep' has been used on a record too, Okay it's not quite 'When the Levee Breaks' but it's still got a fucking good, if loose, groove

Chewshabadoo, Friday, 29 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

I can never hear the lyrics very well unless it's Bob Dylan. So, thankfully, lyrics rarely interfere with my rock and roll enjoyment. For Zep it's the riffs man, it's the riffs. For Sabbeth, it's the riffs man, it's the riffs. For Rage Against the Machine, it's the riffs. For the Stones, the riffs. The riffs are probably why bombastic, butt-simple rock and roll works at all. When you put virtuosity and rock and roll together, I worry. Rock and roll is the professional wresting of music and I love it.

Who has more original, harder, stranger, colder, more bombastic riffs than Zep?

That said: Stairway to Heaven may be Zep's pop masterpiece, but pop isn't what I want out of a hard band. I've seen them twice but after the first album, they could only play arrangements of their multitracked recordings. If Zeps extraordinary arrangements bear any responsibility for the over-produced so-called power ballads that came after, I curse them. Finally, Jimmy played the coldest blues based solos ever - his solos bother me every time I hear them but, maybe that's a good thing.

TK, Friday, 29 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

the term "virtuosity" is being tossed around a lot. is johnny marr virtuosic? kevin shields? does tom (or whoever) appreciate them for their virtuosity. i suspect the answer is yes.

as for zeppelin, to paraphrase cole gagne on branca, it does not matter what anyone thinks about them any more than it matters what anyone thinks of the sun. they were my ecstasy and education from ages 10-14 or so. i can't stand them most of the time now, after punk happened long ago for me but there are always precious moments when i can listen and get into it again. the reasons for loving them and hating them are both equally obvious and *don't matter*. zeppelin simply are.

curiously neglected so far:

i) the obvious vulnerable and androgynous qualities of robert plant's voice and persona. *this* is one item that separates them from standard macho beer-drinking rock and makes them valuable to misfit teen boys (god knows none of the *jocks* were listening to them in my gr 8 class).

ii) the tolkien's not there to make the fans feel smug and intellectual. fuck, when do most people read tolkien? gr 6? gr 7? it's there because, along with the music, zeppelin really aimed to create a fantasy-world and to achieve an otherworldly experience. item number two.

listening to just the cure all the time though. gah.

sundar subramanian, Friday, 29 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

also interesting that zeppelin is being described as totally non-intellectual, primal, etc. such claims are never made of, say, fugazi. are they really more sophisticated?

sundar subramanian, Saturday, 30 September 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

Also, no one's yet mentioned the heavy debt Zep had to the English folk tradition. Maybe that's not as obvious on their albums, but the only thing of theirs I own is Boxed Set II and they really play it up in the liner notes.

Josh, Sunday, 1 October 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

or their explorations of indian classical music for that matter.

sundar subramanian, Monday, 2 October 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

Zeppelin's definitely a classic. No question about it.

The best Zep, though, were "Physical Graffiti" and "Presence." The first LP of the former is the best funk record ever recorded (better even that Parliament/Funkadelic). The second is just great.

Tadeusz Suchodolski, Thursday, 5 October 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

First of all, a considerable portion of Led Zeppelin is quite classic; they are one of the very few bands that could make absofuckinglutely ANYTHING rock: calypso, english pussy folk, black magic, disco, cavestomp, whatever. They were like a karaoke studio band gone bananas (Robert Plant adding a pure ridiculousness factor that puts them over the top, Stairway and all.) But I CANNOT BELIEVE the grief that the greatest rhythm section rock has ever known, the band that invented the rhythmic language of heavy metal as it were, are getting here. Bill Ward, Geezer Butler, and Tony Iommi did EVERYTHING as rhythm; just because Ward didn't mike his bass drum at the end of a canyon doesn't make their rhythms weak. Listen to the syncopated crashing on a song like Supernaught and spot the rhythmic equivalent anywhere other than maybe early seventies electric jazz or Sun Ra. No-one in rock has even come close. No, it isn't usually funky, but that's hardly the point. While Zeppelin were busy goofing around with trying to convert as many forms of music as possible into rock and roll, Sabbath invented and perfected a new form of expression.

Kris.

Kris P. Ozzfest Rainout, Thursday, 5 October 2000 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...
Zep rules.... i didn't read everyone answer cuz im too stoned.....but zep kicks ass and everyone that said that zeppelin's music sucks, is way too stubborn to let the music take over.......by not liking zep you have just not succum to transendece or Plants voice............you think its cool not to like what everyone else thinks...(you all know who u are).....u think that by liking a less popular band it makes you more unique.....but in actuality your just a bunch suckers that think it cool to listen to a shitty band.....

f.ccccc, Wednesday, 29 November 2000 01:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...
How timely, just the other day i was in the mood for some 70s style RAWK! But scanning my Led Zep box I saw too much songs that gave me the creeps. Exceptions for me still are "Kashmir", "In my time of dying" and in spite of Plant's voice, "No Quarter"...that wah-wah riff instantly turns me into a air-guitar playing dork, going "Whagawahgawha, whagawahgawah" (etc.)

Omar Munoz, Wednesday, 3 January 2001 01:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...
Led zeppelin fucked a girl with a shark. they also made some totally huge sounding music. also, they made some pretty bad music. seeing as they fucked that girl with the shark,though, they rule.

swastikas forever, Thursday, 25 January 2001 01:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...
Led Zeppelin is a good band, not god-like, but they had many good qualities. I only own two of their albums. I only own one of their CDs. I only own that album for one song: "When The Levee Breaks." My gosh that's a good song. Cathartic, escapist, whatever the hell you wanna call it. I do have one complaint: Why did Plant have to do his primal scream/grizzled bluesman shouting thing during the _first_ slide guitar break? That led to the second one being kind of anticlimactic. Ah well, beggars can't be choosers.

Jack Redelfs, Wednesday, 21 February 2001 01:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...
Personally I believe that Led Zeppelin is on of the most overrated rock band of all time. Yes, they are one of the most requested rock bands in history, but that doesn't make them good. Black Sabbath was a much more influential than Zeppelin ever was. Sabbath inspired the entire Heavy Metal genre, while zeppelin can maybe be credited with 80's hair bands.

Jeff J., Monday, 26 March 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

Led Zeppelin is the WORST band.They SUCK so bad that they make puff daddy sound good......it's true.All the dumbasses that listen to this shit should get some help.......All Led Zeppelin is,is a bunch of faggots that can't play for shit.........it's true.Thank goodness they are RETIRED.So we don't have to put up with the badness that they display......it's true.They are probabley enjoying their retirement collecting $207.42 a month for the rest of their lives.......that's not bad money for them considering their making more money now then when they played to empty night clubs.......it's true.

ray charles, Tuesday, 27 March 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...
Maybe you don't like LZ, but they were NOT bad musicians. Bonzo is the BEST ROCK DRUMMER, and if you don't agree, who's better? Travis Barker? And when you consider his praise from other musicians, I'd say that Jimmy Page is not a bad guitarist.

LZ, Saturday, 23 June 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

All you people have no taste or anything musical in you if you say that Zeppelin sucks. Like they are actual artists unlike those fucking skid groups or rap fuckers these days.How can you compare zeppelin to Dr. Dre. Jimmy Pagfe is perhaps the greatest guitarist of all time and in my mind he is the king of rock n roll. Led Zeppelin is the geatest band of all time and I shit on you pricks who don't know what they are talking about.

Fuck you all

Milton Robertson, Thursday, 28 June 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Ray Charles fucks fred nice and Hard up the ass. ZEPPELIN RULES MAN. NOW I'M GONNA GO SMOKE A JOINT FOR ZEP THE I'M GONNA TAKE A SHIT TO REPRESENT RAY'S AND FRED'S INTELLIGENCE

Fred's gay, Thursday, 28 June 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Er, obviously bob cannae read. But he did make me laugh.

Nicole, Thursday, 28 June 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I can not believe that there is even a discussion on whether or not led zeppelin was good. Unlike other bands, they constantly progressed and changed. They started out as a blues band, with some hard rock, like dazed and confused off of their first album. As result of their progression and experimentation, they became one of the first hard rock bands of all time.

Later bands would imitate the screamin and screaching guitars; however, the rythm sectio could not be duplicated. Furthermore, the sound of led zeppelin was a result of a combination of many influencs,including indian classical and celtic. Later bands' sound was a result of musical interests within the band that were limited in genre.

All of the musicians in the band are of the highest quality. JImmy Page ranks as one of the best guitarists ever, and the rythm section of John Paul Jones an John Bonham is unrivaled. The songwritig duo of Page and Plant was also one of the best ever.

Contrary to the beliefs of some people who have posted, Led zeppelin set records for sales of tickets and albums. Their live performances shattered tickt sales records, due to elongated versions of songs such as moby dick, which is also an example of Bonham's amazing talent. They are also right behind the beatles in total record sales. HOwever, the beatles had 21 albums, where zep only had 10.

Now could somebody clarify how zeppelin isn't good, because i just don't see it.

jim, Saturday, 30 June 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

1. Ever experimental without losing the brand value. Is that claasic? 2. Some times fake - Kashmir does not have a yellow desert. Classic? 3. Inspiration galore: Golum, the evil one. 4. Pioneering: Whole lotta love. Absolute classic. 5. Aura. natural.

Rajesh Naik, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

All of the musicians in the band are of the highest quality.

Guaranteed to never shrink or fade. But they might get very wrinkly and boring.

Tracer Hand, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Robert Plant sounds like a cat being kicked in the balls. THAT is enough for them to be described as dud. Yeah, they may have continually progressed or whatever, but Percy himself never progressed beyound sounding like an feline in extreme pain.

Richard Tunnicliffe, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...
The only reson ou have not to like Led Zeppelin and even Tolkien is because you're in a different state of mind. It's about escaping reality a creating one of your very own. So don't give me that crap about it being shit. This is the basis of all forms of art.

muppet monkey, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

"They are also right behind the beatles in total record sales. However, the beatles had 21 albums, where Zep only had 10": this the clicher for me. 21 = kewl number (3 x 7); 10 = evil number (2 x 5). D'you SEE?

I like Plant's voice.

mark s, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Their most powerful moments were often the quieter ones..."That's the Way" off of III, "The Rain Song" from Houses, "Down By the Seaside" from Physical Graffiti.

But the stuff I think I most enjoy from them are when they were just plain goofy and/or eccentric. I'm thinking "Boogie with Stu", "Hats Off (to Roy Harper)", "The Crunge", "Hot Dog", etc

Can't think of too many weak moments from Zep, actually...

Joe, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

It's kind of hard to get into an argument about Led Zeppelin when the ground rules seem to be that they weren't pretty accomplished usicians who managed to extend the vocabulary of popular music in ways that few bands ever do.

I can understand those who don't like them becasue of the Prog/Dinosaur overtones, but simply noting that they were in that field would negate the accusations of them bieng anti-intellectual and lacking skill.

Sure, some of their songs are *fairly* simple, but on the whole, they almost always managed to do something unexpected or quirky within the context of Loud Blues.

They're one of the few Rawk bands I can stand, because there's always something ungraspable about how they came to what they ended up doing. To me, if you can figure out how a band got to their end product (and could replicate it yourself), why bother listening to it?

CountV/John T, Friday, 27 July 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...
Some of these "Black Sabbath" fans crack me up with there total lack of knowledge about rock history. Led Zeppelin did not influence that horrible hair metal of the 80's musically. All those lame bands did was try to "look" like them. There music was silly pop dreck with loud guitars.

Zeppelin's music, if you listen to it, was exstremly inventive and layered. Led Zeppelins actually musical influence can actually be felt most from everyone from Prince to REM to Jane's Addiction to Smashing Pumpkins. Not lame hair metal, lol. On the other hand all Black Sabbath ever influenced was moronic crap like death metal, or black metal and a bunch of low IQed, beer swilling "metal heads" with a mentality to "break stuff" and worship the devil. Please.

Also the comments about Led Zeppelin not being intellectual are ignorant in my opinion. Is Mozart not intellectual? He certainly did not have many lyrics about war or polotics did he? What was intellectual about Zeppelin was there musical ability. The world was filled with tons of good and lame bands that where "politcally consious", i think they where and still are a breath of fresh air. I like some Punk rock, but if you are that non-ecclectic as to be turned off to great musicans because of some silly ideal or scene (like punk) then your a idiot.

Robert, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Well it's more than likely that Led Zep isn't the greatest rock band of all time. The majority of their lyrics seems to have come straight from their waists and some of their more popular riffs are remarkably simple. Plant is probably overrated and had he not died so prematurely, Bonzo might never have been as celebrated as he is now. Still, does that mean that Immigrant Song is not worth listening to, or that Over The Hills and Far Away is useless tripe from a pretentious 70s band? Maybe... but no one can argue that they were more influential than Sabbath ever could have been. Firstly, I contend that it is Led Zep and not Sab that should be pointed out as the originators of heavy metal if you had but one finger to point with. But even if you don't agree, let us remember that it was Black Sabbath's unbearbable stagnation that was in the most part responsible for the New Wave of British Heavy Metal movement in the 1980s. (The fact is that most tributes to Black Sabbath - how many are there, seven? - feature generic death metal bands with cookie monster vocalists.)

So, did Sabbath influence Iron Maiden or Judas Priest? Probably, but not in the way they might have liked. There may be a reason Maiden - a band that does few covers - did one of Whole Lotta Love, but never a single Sabbath tune.

Jack Torrance, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Well it's more than likely that Led Zep isn't the greatest rock band of all time. The majority of their lyrics seems to have come straight from their waists and some of their more popular riffs are remarkably simple. Plant is probably overrated and had he not died so prematurely, Bonzo might never have been as celebrated as he is now. Still, does that mean that Immigrant Song is not worth listening to, or that Over The Hills and Far Away is useless tripe from a pretentious 70s band? Maybe... but no one can argue that they were more influential than Sabbath ever could have been. Firstly, I contend that it is Led Zep and not Sab that should be pointed out as the originators of heavy metal if you had but one finger to point with. But even if you don't agree, let us remember that it was Black Sabbath's unbearbable stagnation that was in the most part responsible for the New Wave of British Heavy Metal movement in the 1980s. (The fact is that most tributes to Black Sabbath - how many are there, seven? - feature generic death metal bands with cookie monster vocalists.)

So, did Sabbath influence Iron Maiden or Judas Priest? Probably, but not in the way they might have liked. There may be a reason Maiden - a band that does few covers - did one of Whole Lotta Love, but never a single Sabbath tune.

J Corabi, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

7 months pass...
Just the fact that so many people still feel strongly about Zep, 20 years after their demise, says something. Unlike 99% of the crap that is made today and forgotten 6 mopnths later. Long live "classic" rock.

Ron

Ron Murray, Friday, 7 June 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Led zeppelin fucked a girl with a shark.

So they influenced R. Kelly, too!

Dan Perry, Friday, 7 June 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

R. Kelly isn't in their league.

dleone, Friday, 7 June 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

it was the vanilla fudge at the edgewater inn in washington state that fcked a girl with the shark.

chaki, Friday, 7 June 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Yes, Zep were the red snapper, not the shark

Ben Williams, Friday, 7 June 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

the vanilla fudge invented everything!!

mark s, Saturday, 8 June 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...
I quite like Zep. And I don't think Sabbath come close really because they are so one-dimensional (to my fascistic ears, at least). Whereas, Zep were multi-faceted and instead of writing a few good somngs, wrote a string of shit-hot albums.

Anyband with Bonham at the back was on to a winner (unless it was Bonham's own band) and Page and Plant ain't so bad either. Actually, I recall Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull fame telling Melody Maker back in the day that with his lyrics and Zep's music they "could have made quite a good little rock and roll band." Ha ha ha ha ha.. sorry, I laugh my ass off everytime I hear that.

Gimme Physical Graffiti everytime. I think it's actually too good, if that's possible, which it isn't, but it feels like it is when I listen to that album. Does anyone else know what I (don't) mean?

Roger Fascist, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Expanded remasters! http://www.ledzeppelin.com/buy/

Interior. Ibiza Bar (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 13 March 2014 14:26 (1 month ago) Permalink

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s?_encoding=UTF8&field-artist=Led%20Zeppelin&search-alias=music

Damn, beat me to it!

Anyway, each one of the first three comes in it's own "SuperDeluxe" edition.

£92 each! And *that's* only because Amazon likes you...

Mark G, Thursday, 13 March 2014 14:33 (1 month ago) Permalink

Damn

waterbabies (waterface), Thursday, 13 March 2014 14:35 (1 month ago) Permalink

At least they are offering all the actual music content as nonexclusive to the big boxes (2-disc CDs for about $20, as well as downloads and vinyl at other price points).

Interior. Ibiza Bar (C. Grisso/McCain), Thursday, 13 March 2014 14:43 (1 month ago) Permalink

My only gripe is that, isn't the 'Complete Studio Recordings' box from 94 supposed to be, in Pagey's mind, as he was the one who mastered it, the best Zeppelin money could buy? I love Zep, but this spread of different offerings at different price points doesn't inspire confidence. Now only if there was a PONO edition ...

BlackIronPrison, Thursday, 13 March 2014 15:01 (1 month ago) Permalink

i want a LZ branded pono player with all this stuff pre-loaded.

clearly thats the only way to feel these new remasters.

xpost ! damn ...

mark e, Thursday, 13 March 2014 15:04 (1 month ago) Permalink

You wouldn't believe the advances made in Page's ears over the last two decades.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 13 March 2014 15:05 (1 month ago) Permalink

What are these unreleased studio outtakes

How dare you tarnish the reputation of Turturro's yodel (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 13 March 2014 15:28 (1 month ago) Permalink

then I will be very, very surprised

(or if you must, "data") (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 13 March 2014 15:30 (1 month ago) Permalink

any news on what the bonus tracks are yet? I see there's a live show with Zep I (which is my favourite era for Zep bootlegs tbh)

you are clinically deaf and should sell you iPod (stevie), Thursday, 13 March 2014 15:33 (1 month ago) Permalink

If I had to guess, I'd guess the bonus tracks are mostly of the outtake variety - jams, snippets, alternate takes. At least, those are what circulate on the boot circuit. I'm not sure Zep left behind a lot of finished stuff or unreleased songs, if any.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 13 March 2014 15:35 (1 month ago) Permalink

jams
jorts
cargo shorts

waterbabies (waterface), Thursday, 13 March 2014 15:36 (1 month ago) Permalink

A couple of months ago, Plant mentioned an unreleased song with Jones singing lead that might be part of these.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 13 March 2014 15:38 (1 month ago) Permalink

LZII bonus disc:

Whole Lotta Love [Rough Mix with Vocal]
What Is And What Should Never Be [Rough Mix with Vocal]
Thank You [Backing Track]
Heartbreaker [Rough Mix with Vocal]
Livin, Lovin Maid [Backing Track]
Ramble On [Rough Mix with Vocal]
Moby Dick [Drum Track]
La La Intro/Outro [Rough Mix]

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 13 March 2014 15:43 (1 month ago) Permalink

Moby Dick [Drum Track]

*skip*

you are clinically deaf and should sell you iPod (stevie), Thursday, 13 March 2014 15:46 (1 month ago) Permalink

LZIII bonus disc:

The Immigrant Song
Friends
Celebration Day
Since I’ve Been Loving You
Bathroom Sound (instrumental Out On The Tiles)
Gallows Pole
That’s The Way
Jennings Farm Blues ("an instrumental forerunner of 'Bron-Yr-Aur Stomp'")
Keys To The Highway/Trouble In Mind

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 13 March 2014 15:47 (1 month ago) Permalink

If all they could find was backing tracks or rough mixes, they should've instead used live material for the bonus discs.

And what the fuck with no "Hey Hey What Can I Do" on the LZIII set?

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 13 March 2014 15:49 (1 month ago) Permalink

haha seriously

balls, Thursday, 13 March 2014 15:50 (1 month ago) Permalink

i guess the bootleggers already licked the bowl clean

you are clinically deaf and should sell you iPod (stevie), Thursday, 13 March 2014 15:57 (1 month ago) Permalink

Doesn't mean those things can't still be released. Most of the bonus stuff on the 90s/00s Who reissues had been bootlegged for years.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 13 March 2014 16:04 (1 month ago) Permalink

The Stan Ricker remixes on that mother ship thing were a lot better hope he did these

gimme the lute (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 March 2014 16:21 (1 month ago) Permalink

the olympia show was rebroadcast in dec 2007. super classic, jazzed to see it out. that said the ii and iii bonus tracks look super boring. there are dozens of zep soundboard tapes and who cares if they're already circulating- live zep from this era def. trumps karaoke studio outtakes.

rushomancy, Thursday, 13 March 2014 20:50 (1 month ago) Permalink

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 13 March 2014 20:52 (1 month ago) Permalink

rough mixes

fucking lol

(or if you must, "data") (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 13 March 2014 20:55 (1 month ago) Permalink

fi Hoffman boards gwan ham over this obviously....

apparently they were "supervised" by Jimmy Page which is a nice way of saying that he's taking credit for someone else's work (again!) apparently it's done by John Davis

http://www.thisismetropolis.com/mastering/engineers/john-davis

he did celebration day - also de la soul and ministry of sound back in the day - he's got a diverse C.V.

aaanyway, here some inside dope from the insidest weirdo audiophile board in the net

A note on the sound and mastering of these, for those who are just coming in to this discussion:

If we can agree, at least for the sake of argument for the moment, that the already available iTunes and Qobuz downloads are the same source mastering that will be used for the CDs and LPs, then I think we can say with a high degree of confidence that these new remasters are not "brickwalled" or compressed, and have very minimal digital limiting.

Facts:

(1) There is no audible distortion from digital clipping. In other words, no distortion beyond what we're already used to from the master tape.

(2) The dynamic range, as measured by a DR meter, averages 2dB lower than the 1980s Daiment/Sidore CDs. A few tracks are 3dB less, some are only 1dB less, and a few even have the same DR rating as the Diament/Sidore versions.

(3) "Brickwalling" or systematic compression would produce DR numbers much lower than what these remasters are showing. And as we learned from the epic Ian Shepherd "Can you use a DR meter on vinyl" thread, even moderate digital limiting - where the loudest peaks are attenuated using algorithms that don't produce audible "clipping" distortion - would tend to reduce DR by 3 or 4dB, rather than 2dB.

(4) Applying almost any form of EQ to a flat transfer will almost always reduce DR by 1 or 2dB. Barry Diament has said he applied almost no EQ to the tapes he got in the '80s (and that he wishes he'd applied a bit more), while John Davis has said he did apply some EQ here. So EQ clearly explains part of the average 2dB reduction in DR.

(5) There definitely has been some digital limiting in these new remasters, but as the above indicates, it's been minimal. In addition to sounding good, the waveforms of these tracks confirm this: Many of the iTunes tracks appear to have between one and perhaps a dozen individual samples/peaks that initially appear to be clipped. But zoom in, and it becomes clear that they are just peaks that have been gently "rounded off" by digital limiting and happen to peak at 0.0. If this were pervasive it could be a problem. But a handful of individual samples that have been limited is not going to be audible, let alone bothersome.

One final note: The only track that's really full of these kinds of limited peaks is "Custard Pie" - and, not coincidentally, it's the only track with a large DR difference between the Diament CD and the new remasters: DR16 vs DR11. But Custard Pie always has sounded like crap, and DR-wise it's an outlier: In addition to Diament's original being 5dB higher in DR than the remaster version, it's also 3-5dB higher in DR than all the other tracks on Diament's own version of Physical Graffiti . Clearly there was something amiss in the original mastering of this track (not by Diament, but by the original recording/mastering engineer). So John Davis has cranked up the limiter on this one track, and I have to say, it's the first proper-sounding version of this song I've heard. And a DR of 11 for a rock track is still quite dynamic.

Bottom line: Minimal digital limiting, some judicious EQ, no overall compression, no "brickwalling." Sound great - go get 'em! :)

gimme the lute (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 13 March 2014 22:07 (1 month ago) Permalink

Sorry but i still can't figure out if these will sound any different from the box set that came out 10 years ago.

calstars, Friday, 14 March 2014 00:02 (1 month ago) Permalink

I grew up with the cassettes from the 90s and not sure if anything will sound as good as those

calstars, Friday, 14 March 2014 00:03 (1 month ago) Permalink

Nothing will sound as good as hearing them on the FM radio in my long-dead '73 Pontiac Grand Prix.

Elvis Telecom, Friday, 14 March 2014 00:19 (1 month ago) Permalink

It's Led Zeppelin. It pretty much always sounds good.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 14 March 2014 00:20 (1 month ago) Permalink

apparently they were "supervised" by Jimmy Page which is a nice way of saying that he's taking credit for someone else's work (again!) apparently it's done by John Davis

^no fucking way. Im shocked. Shocked!

Prince Kajuku (Bill Magill), Friday, 14 March 2014 14:26 (1 month ago) Permalink

It was actually mastered by Jake Holmes.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 14 March 2014 15:21 (1 month ago) Permalink

Or maybe the record company just figured "Supervised by Jimmy Page" was a better marketing angle than "mastered by some guy."

james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Friday, 14 March 2014 15:23 (1 month ago) Permalink

Sorry "mastered by the guy who did a de la soul record"

james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Friday, 14 March 2014 15:24 (1 month ago) Permalink

Presumably, the final product is approved by one/some/all of the band members, Page among them. "Supervised by" is a better marketing angle than "rubber-stamped by."

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 14 March 2014 15:31 (1 month ago) Permalink

My understanding is that Jimmy wanted to do it, and the other guys said, "sure, have fun." So he went through the archives and made the choices and the other guys said merely yes or no.

EZ Snappin, Friday, 14 March 2014 15:33 (1 month ago) Permalink

True, he definitely had a hand in the track selection. But how much he "supervised" the mastering, idk.

Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 14 March 2014 15:38 (1 month ago) Permalink

Maybe not supervised, but I'd guess he weighed in heavily all through the process.

EZ Snappin, Friday, 14 March 2014 15:41 (1 month ago) Permalink

I'm sure whatever it is it's part of Led Zeppelin's ongoing conspiracy to deliberately fuck over lesser-known artists as much as possible.

james franco tur(oll)ing test (Hurting 2), Friday, 14 March 2014 15:41 (1 month ago) Permalink

No artists should master themselves anyway, they don't know wtf they are doing

gimme the lute (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 14 March 2014 17:55 (1 month ago) Permalink

not many artists would have any idea how to operate mastering equipment or what the stuff even is, it's a whole different discipline from recording. if Jimmy Page "supervised" the mastering, the most it means is he was in the mastering studio during the week or so it took to master the final mixes and said "yes" or "no, it sounds too ___________" until they were done

(or if you must, "data") (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Friday, 14 March 2014 18:01 (1 month ago) Permalink

I heard he just played the albums in a stairwell then recorded that.

Josh in Chicago, Friday, 14 March 2014 19:34 (1 month ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

More showings of Zed Zep Played Here doc

Florida Film Festival April 7,12
http://www.floridafilmfestival.com/program/films/led-zeppelin-played-here

Cinedelphia Film Festival in Philadelphia Sunday, April 20
http://www.cinedelphiafilmfestival.com/led-zeppelin-played-here/

Nashville Film Festival April 22, April 25
https://www.nashvillefilmfestival.org/news/music-films-music-city-lineup/

Chicago International Movies & Music Festival Friday, May 2
http://cimmfest.org/cimmfest-2014-initial-line-up-announcement/

College Park Arts Exchange (near UofMD, free admission) Friday, May 9
http://cpae.org/node/503

DC Record Fair - Artisphere in Arlington, VA Sunday, June 1
http://www.artisphere.com/calendar/event-details/Film-New-Media/LED-ZEPPELIN-PLAYED-HERE.aspx

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 00:49 (1 week ago) Permalink

A long, detailed documentary film about LZ would be really welcome right about now

calstars, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 01:20 (1 week ago) Permalink

How much money would it take for Page and Plant to open up, I wonder

calstars, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 01:20 (1 week ago) Permalink

Cameo by John Paul Jones wife

calstars, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 01:21 (1 week ago) Permalink

It's sad that the brief moments in the doc with Edge and Jack White is all the footage we're going to get of Jimmy talking recording and playing

calstars, Tuesday, 8 April 2014 01:22 (1 week ago) Permalink

It's not footage but this had some decent discussion of recording and playing: http://www.guitarworld.com/new-book-light-shade-conversations-jimmy-page-coming-october-23

EveningStar (Sund4r), Tuesday, 8 April 2014 02:59 (1 week ago) Permalink

first proper sunny day of the year here - "rain song" sounded like the best thing ever today

everyday sheeple (Michael B), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 22:56 (5 days ago) Permalink

oh man someone was talking about Immigrant Song on a podcast and I spent the entirety of yesterday trawling through zeppelin -- pinnacle was driving around town with the windows down, zeppelin blasting like a crusty classic rock motherfucker

set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Wednesday, 16 April 2014 23:59 (5 days ago) Permalink

Got the Barney Hoskyns book yesterday. Am halfway through. Super fun read.

That elusive North American wood-ape (Capitaine Jay Vee), Thursday, 17 April 2014 00:01 (4 days ago) Permalink


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