― Tom, Wednesday, 27 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
With Zeppelin, the sound is the thing. Tom, you should approach Zep's
body of work the way you would Dr. Dre's 2001. Sure, Dre is not the
greatest rapper, but he knows how to lay down rhymes that compliment
his brilliant productions. I would argue that the same holds true for
Page & Plant. The massive, bottom-heavy sound that Page captured with
his studio work reaches perfection only with Plant's voice floating
― Mark Richardson, Wednesday, 27 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
All the while feeling vaguely smug and intellectual because of the
Crowley and Tolkien references. Bleargh.
Fred's not totally wrong though -- the Zep had their occaisional
moment, but they're still overrated beyond belief. Early Black
Sabbath could have them for breakfast!
― Nicole, Wednesday, 27 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
But the best reason to hate Zeppelin, as Nicole pointed out, is that
they were a band who sung about J.R.R. Tolkien. I fucking hate Tolkien.
J.R.R. fucking Tolkien is not rock 'n roll.
― Otis Wheeler, Thursday, 28 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
I loathe 'ver Zep', their sweatiness, their ponderousness (is that a
word?) and their pretension. I'm very used to listening to music for
the noise. Led Zeppelin make a nasty noise.
I don't think I've ever heard a band rock harder than the Roots
Radics circa '81, and they sounded *beautiful*.
― Tim, Thursday, 28 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
With regards to the man's general worth, though, we must differ. ;-)
― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 28 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
1) There is nothing even remotely intellectual about Zep or their
fans; their music is populism at its finest.
2) Hard to imagine what could be more smug than picking on teenage
kids in middle America.
3) Why listen to Zep when you can listen to Sabbath? JOHN BONHAM.
Black Sabbath, while masters of the riff (and Reality), had an anemic
rhythm section. How many hip-hop groups have sampled Bill Ward's drum
Zep ARE pretty sweaty, though.
― Mark Richardson, Thursday, 28 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
Fred's right when he says Robert Plant's voice sounds like an escape
(specifically, from the stuffiness and politeness of Britain when
Plant was growing up) but, you know, you could say the same thing
about fucking Merseybeat, for fuck's sake. While at the time they
were hailed as an astonishing sonic progression from *that* lot over
six years, Zep remind me of what Tom and I once said about the
Beatles' hangers-on; you can't deny that they sounded like an escape
and a new dawn for certain people listening to them, but that doesn't
alter the fact that the music is terrible.
Yeah, Tom's nailed them good and proper.
― Robin Carmody, Thursday, 28 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
Why listen to Led Zep when you have Black Sabbath? Because only
listening to one band is boring unless it's The Cure or Prince.
― Dan Perry, Thursday, 28 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
but seriously (ha ha ha)! tom is oblivious to many of the things that
make zep great, unless he's fooled me all of this time and is really
into virtuosity and locking rhythm sections. ;) mark, as you say the
music isn't really made for or by intellectuals. the concept
of "suspension of disbelief" comes to mind, checking your brain at
the door, etc., and if you're not up for that then, let me say it
again, maybe zep isn't the band for you.
and what's all this talk of sabbath? are the same people who are
criticizing robert plant's voice listening to a band fronted by ozzy?
certainly, sabbath has created some incredibly sludgy and heavy riffs
(and are probably currently a bigger influence than zep) but, as mark
says, the rhythm section is weak and, God, i just can't *stand* ozzy.
more power to you if you can!
― fred solinger, Thursday, 28 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
And Pitchfork can kiss my arse ;).
― Tom, Friday, 29 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
i write paragraphs about them because i force myself to think about
them: normally, zep isn't one of those bands one rattles on about. if
i were listening to the music and *thinking* it'd be a conscious
and pitchfork is *still* the internet king of music reviews, if you
ask me. maybe -- and this is only a *maybe* -- you'd be in their
league if you wrote a review, oh, more than once a month (or when the
latest merritt album comes out).
― fred solinger, Friday, 29 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― David, Friday, 29 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
The ironic thing, I've just realised, is that my reaction to Led Zep
*is* pretty much 'instinctual' - as I said to Fred in chat a few days
ago, the difference is that I'm basically more of a punk than him. So
I like Motorhead, he likes Zep, and both of us look around for
rationalisations as to why the other one is less rockin'. Having
grown up on the British music press and their horror of anything
approaching prog or dinosaur rock, my gut instinct is to mistrust the
virtuosity and bombast of the Zep: so my negative judgement is based
on that 'unthinking' reaction.
Of course, I *could* think myself into liking some of their stuff,
but as Fred says, that's hardly the point...
Busta Rhymes - 'This Means War' samples 'Iron Man'
Cypress Hill - 'I Ain't Goin' Out Like That' samples 'The Wizard'
And I'm sure that 'Behind the Wall of Sleep' has been used on a
record too, Okay it's not quite 'When the Levee Breaks' but it's
still got a fucking good, if loose, groove
― Chewshabadoo, Friday, 29 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
Who has more original, harder, stranger, colder, more bombastic riffs
That said: Stairway to Heaven may be Zep's pop masterpiece, but pop
isn't what I want out of a hard band. I've seen them twice but after
the first album, they could only play arrangements of their
multitracked recordings. If Zeps extraordinary arrangements bear any
responsibility for the over-produced so-called power ballads that
came after, I curse them. Finally, Jimmy played the coldest blues
based solos ever - his solos bother me every time I hear them but,
maybe that's a good thing.
― TK, Friday, 29 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
as for zeppelin, to paraphrase cole gagne on branca, it does not
matter what anyone thinks about them any more than it matters what
anyone thinks of the sun. they were my ecstasy and education from
ages 10-14 or so. i can't stand them most of the time now, after
punk happened long ago for me but there are always precious moments
when i can listen and get into it again. the reasons for loving them
and hating them are both equally obvious and *don't matter*.
zeppelin simply are.
curiously neglected so far:
i) the obvious vulnerable and androgynous qualities of robert plant's
voice and persona. *this* is one item that separates them from
standard macho beer-drinking rock and makes them valuable to misfit
teen boys (god knows none of the *jocks* were listening to them in my
gr 8 class).
ii) the tolkien's not there to make the fans feel smug and
intellectual. fuck, when do most people read tolkien? gr 6? gr 7?
it's there because, along with the music, zeppelin really aimed to
create a fantasy-world and to achieve an otherworldly experience.
item number two.
listening to just the cure all the time though. gah.
― sundar subramanian, Friday, 29 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― sundar subramanian, Saturday, 30 September 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Josh, Sunday, 1 October 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― sundar subramanian, Monday, 2 October 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
The best Zep, though, were "Physical Graffiti" and "Presence." The
first LP of the former is the best funk record ever recorded (better
even that Parliament/Funkadelic). The second is just great.
― Tadeusz Suchodolski, Thursday, 5 October 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Kris P. Ozzfest Rainout, Thursday, 5 October 2000 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― f.ccccc, Wednesday, 29 November 2000 01:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Omar Munoz, Wednesday, 3 January 2001 01:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― swastikas forever, Thursday, 25 January 2001 01:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Jack Redelfs, Wednesday, 21 February 2001 01:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Jeff J., Monday, 26 March 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― ray charles, Tuesday, 27 March 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― LZ, Saturday, 23 June 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
Fuck you all
― Milton Robertson, Thursday, 28 June 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Fred's gay, Thursday, 28 June 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Nicole, Thursday, 28 June 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
Later bands would imitate the screamin and screaching guitars;
however, the rythm sectio could not be duplicated. Furthermore, the
sound of led zeppelin was a result of a combination of many
influencs,including indian classical and celtic. Later bands' sound
was a result of musical interests within the band that were limited
All of the musicians in the band are of the highest quality. JImmy
Page ranks as one of the best guitarists ever, and the rythm section
of John Paul Jones an John Bonham is unrivaled. The songwritig duo of
Page and Plant was also one of the best ever.
Contrary to the beliefs of some people who have posted, Led zeppelin
set records for sales of tickets and albums. Their live performances
shattered tickt sales records, due to elongated versions of songs
such as moby dick, which is also an example of Bonham's amazing
talent. They are also right behind the beatles in total record sales.
HOwever, the beatles had 21 albums, where zep only had 10.
Now could somebody clarify how zeppelin isn't good, because i just
don't see it.
― jim, Saturday, 30 June 2001 00:00 (14 years ago) Permalink
― Rajesh Naik, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
― Tracer Hand, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
― Richard Tunnicliffe, Friday, 6 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
― muppet monkey, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
I like Plant's voice.
― mark s, Tuesday, 24 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
But the stuff I think I most enjoy from them are when they were just
plain goofy and/or eccentric. I'm thinking "Boogie with Stu", "Hats
Off (to Roy Harper)", "The Crunge", "Hot Dog", etc
Can't think of too many weak moments from Zep, actually...
― Joe, Wednesday, 25 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
I can understand those who don't like them becasue of the
Prog/Dinosaur overtones, but simply noting that they were in that
field would negate the accusations of them bieng
anti-intellectual and lacking skill.
Sure, some of their songs are *fairly* simple, but on the whole,
they almost always managed to do something unexpected or
quirky within the context of Loud Blues.
They're one of the few Rawk bands I can stand, because there's
always something ungraspable about how they came to what
they ended up doing. To me, if you can figure out how a band got
to their end product (and could replicate it yourself), why bother
listening to it?
― CountV/John T, Friday, 27 July 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
Zeppelin's music, if you listen to it, was exstremly inventive and
layered. Led Zeppelins actually musical influence can actually be
felt most from everyone from Prince to REM to Jane's Addiction to
Smashing Pumpkins. Not lame hair metal, lol. On the other hand all
Black Sabbath ever influenced was moronic crap like death metal, or
black metal and a bunch of low IQed, beer swilling "metal heads" with
a mentality to "break stuff" and worship the devil. Please.
Also the comments about Led Zeppelin not being intellectual are
ignorant in my opinion. Is Mozart not intellectual? He certainly did
not have many lyrics about war or polotics did he? What was
intellectual about Zeppelin was there musical ability. The world was
filled with tons of good and lame bands that where "politcally
consious", i think they where and still are a breath of fresh air. I
like some Punk rock, but if you are that non-ecclectic as to be
turned off to great musicans because of some silly ideal or scene
(like punk) then your a idiot.
― Robert, Friday, 21 September 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
So, did Sabbath influence Iron Maiden or Judas Priest? Probably, but
not in the way they might have liked. There may be a reason Maiden -
a band that does few covers - did one of Whole Lotta Love, but never
a single Sabbath tune.
― Jack Torrance, Thursday, 4 October 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
So, did Sabbath influence Iron Maiden or Judas Priest? Probably, but
not in the way they might have liked. There may be a reason Maiden -
a band that does few covers - did one of Whole Lotta Love, but never
a single Sabbath tune.
― J Corabi, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
― Ron Murray, Friday, 7 June 2002 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
So they influenced
R. Kelly, too!
― Dan Perry, Friday, 7 June 2002 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
― dleone, Friday, 7 June 2002 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
― chaki, Friday, 7 June 2002 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
― Ben Williams, Friday, 7 June 2002 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
― mark s, Saturday, 8 June 2002 00:00 (13 years ago) Permalink
Anyband with Bonham at the back was on to a winner (unless it was
Bonham's own band) and Page and Plant ain't so bad either. Actually, I
recall Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull fame telling Melody Maker back in
the day that with his lyrics and Zep's music they "could have made
quite a good little rock and roll band." Ha ha ha ha ha.. sorry, I
laugh my ass off everytime I hear that.
Gimme Physical Graffiti everytime. I think it's actually too good, if
that's possible, which it isn't, but it feels like it is when I listen
to that album. Does anyone else know what I (don't) mean?
― Roger Fascist, Monday, 29 July 2002 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink
interesting point about the sequencers. when reading interviews in tape op or whatever i'm always surprised how early click tracks were used in studios, like for putting together soundtracks or commercials in the '50s and '60s. they had some crazy methods for generating them too.
― festival culture (Jordan), Friday, 12 December 2014 22:53 (6 months ago) Permalink
xp something about the way he sets his own context before almost every Q&A seems pretty manipulative.
― $0.00 Butter sauce only. No marinara. (Sufjan Grafton), Friday, 12 December 2014 22:54 (6 months ago) Permalink
Yeah, this is a fact that's not brought up often enough, IMO! A lot gets written about his rapid-fire lead drumming style, but tracks like 'Baba O'Riley' and 'Won't Get Fooled Again' etc. show that he could, when needed, stay in time with sequenced backing!
― Welcome To (Turrican), Friday, December 12, 2014 4:49 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I haven't read it yet, but supposedly there's a section in the new Glyn Johns autobio where he recalls the recording of "Won't Get Fooled Again." He realized at that moment that he was witnessing a pivotal moment in the history of popular music, with this untamed band keeping in perfect sync with a sequenced/synthesizer backing tape and losing none of their edge.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Friday, 12 December 2014 23:06 (6 months ago) Permalink
No matter how many times I hear it I never lose my sense of awe about Baba O'Riley
― you say tomato/i say imago (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Saturday, 13 December 2014 02:37 (6 months ago) Permalink
― You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican), Wednesday, 14 January 2015 16:30 (5 months ago) Permalink
PG remaster has leaked. Lots of great little stereo details apparent this time around. Especially love the low horn-like synth (?) that switches channels during parts of "Kashmir". Nice on 'phones.
― Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Monday, 23 February 2015 02:47 (4 months ago) Permalink
"Squeeze my lemon, til the juice leaks on the internet..."
― Don A Henley And Get Over It (C. Grisso/McCain), Monday, 23 February 2015 03:44 (4 months ago) Permalink
both. more of the latter.
― Banned on the Run (benbbag), Monday, 23 February 2015 04:56 (4 months ago) Permalink
Leaked? It's in the shops over here.I thought we'd be behind other places.Is UK before U.S.? I thought Ireland was at least a week behind UK.
― Stevolende, Monday, 23 February 2015 14:24 (4 months ago) Permalink
Hits U.S. stores tomorrow, I believe.
― ƋППṍӮɨ∏ğڵșěᶉᶇдM℮ (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Monday, 23 February 2015 18:37 (4 months ago) Permalink
And sounds gooood.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 23 February 2015 18:38 (4 months ago) Permalink
man the PG remaster is so sizzling
― Hammer Smashed Bagels, Monday, 23 March 2015 02:27 (3 months ago) Permalink
details on the last three reissues:
Track listing for Presence“Achilles Last Stand”“For Your Life”“Royal Orleans”“Nobody’s Fault But Mine”“Candy Store Rock”“Hots on for Nowhere”“Tea For One”
Disc 2“Two Ones Are Won”“For Your Life (Reference Mix)”“10 Ribs & All/Carrot Pod Pod (Pod)”“Royal Orleans (Reference Mix)”“Hots On For Nowhere (Reference Mix)”
Track listing for In Through the Out Door“In The Evening”“South Bound Saurez”“Fool in the Rain”“Hot Dog”“Carouselambra”“All My Love”“I’m Gonna Crawl”
Disc 2“In the Evening (Rough Mix)”“Southbound Piano (South Bound Saurez)”“Fool in the Rain (Rough Mix)”“Hot Dog (Rough Mix)”“The Epic (Carouselambra – Rough Mix)”“The Hook (All My Love – Rough Mix)”“Blot (I’m Gonna Crawl – Rough Mix)”
Track listing for Coda“We’re Gonna Groove”“Poor Tom”“I Can’t Quit You Baby”“Walter s Walk”“Ozone Baby”“Darlene”“Bonzo’s Montreux”“Wearing and Tearing”
Disc 2“We’re Gonna Groove (Alternate Mix)”“If It Keeps On Raining (When the Levee Breaks – Rough Mix)”“Bonzo’s Montreux (Mix Construction in Progress)”“Baby Come on Home”“Sugar Mama (Mix)”“Poor Tom (Instrumental Mix)”“Travelling Riverside Blues (BBC Session)”“Hey, Hey, What Can I Do”
Disc 3“Four Hands (Four Sticks – Bombay Orchestra)”“Friends (Bombay Orchestra)”“St. Tristan’s Sword (Rough Mix)”“Desire (The Wanton Song – Rough Mix)”“Bring It On Home (Rough Mix)”“Walter’s Walk (Rough Mix)”“Everybody Makes It Through (In the Light – Rough Mix)”
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 17:00 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
curious why stuff like Four Hands, Friends, etc. are on the Coda reissue and not on earlier reissue
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 3 June 2015 17:05 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
I'm considering picking up the whole set of reissues (the multi-disc versions) once they're all out. I suppose it will depend on price. I have the old gray box, and that sounds great to me. But if I have the extra cash, and Amazon offers a good deal on all nine, I might go for it.
― the top man in the language department (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 17:05 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
XP: Because how else would they get people to double+ dip on Coda?
― Love, Wilco (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 17:21 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Also: Is this 'BBC version' of "Travelling Riverside Blues" the same one that was a bait track on the original box set? Or is it something never before released that's orphaning that version?
― Love, Wilco (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 17:23 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Yeah, instead of reissuing Coda, they should've slotted those songs into the reissues for the appropriate albums (e.g., "Poor Tom" on LZIII). It's not like Coda as a standalone collection is canon.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 17:29 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
yeah I get why they did it from a financial standpoint it's just weird to reissue Coda as an expanded dumping ground for random outtakes, it's just messy
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 3 June 2015 17:32 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Funny that Page went on and on about avoiding releasing anything that had already been bootlegged. Um...looks like that's no longer the case.
― Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 18:37 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Loads of albums aren't "canon", but still get a reissue treatment... but yeah, it would have made far more sense to put all of the relevant studio outtakes as bonus tracks on the appropriate albums.
― You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 19:34 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Page seems like a dude that does not realize that after all this time, he is no longer the best authority on things Led Zeppelin. "Wait until you hear this show you've never heard before! It'll ... what? You've heard it? Hmm, OK, get a load of these incredible outtakes from ... how did you know I was going to say that? You have them already? All of them!? Hmm. OK, how about this incredible batch of unreleased songs? Haven't heard them yet, have you? Well, that's because they do not exist, you suckers! Now shut up and buy the records again."
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 June 2015 20:13 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
The band were together for 12 years (and touring most of the time) and they ceased recording over 35 years ago. I don't know what the fuck people are expecting, to be honest, some mythical lost album to just magically appear out of nowhere? That's the problem with these fucking "classic" acts like Led Zeppelin and The Beatles etc. It's as if people won't be content until the barrel has been scraped so hard that there's a gaping hole in the bottom of it. "There must be more! There must be more!" ... At some point, there is no more.
― You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 20:44 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
what do you mean?
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 3 June 2015 20:48 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
"No more unreleased material in the archives, folks, but here's a vintage recording of John Lennon laying down a shit on his toilet at Tittenhurst Park circa 1971"
"*gasps* Oh my god, such genius! What a musical colon! BEST BAND EVAAAAAAA! MUSIC HAS NOT BEEN IMPROVED SINCE THE '70s!!!11!!"
― You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 20:49 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Nothing I've read about 'Carnival of Light' suggests to me that it's anything more than The Beatles dicking around for a long time and that it's probably unreleased for a very good reason.
― You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 20:54 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
If they ever make the DVD of the Beatles singles videos, "Carnival of Light" should be the menu music. Anything else gives it undue prominence.
― Mark G, Wednesday, 3 June 2015 21:09 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
What are the odds on Page's next move being an 'Authorized Bootleg' series of live stuff?
― Love, Wilco (C. Grisso/McCain), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 21:12 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Actually, LZ is pretty unusual for not having a bunch of interesting leftovers. Them and ... Pink Floyd? Bowie? But the Beatles archives stuff has often been illuminating. Likewise Dylan, Springsteen, the Beach Boys and a bunch others. Stones holding tight in terms of cool outtakes, but lots of other acts have done it. I'd buy an LZ set of just isolated Bonham beats.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 3 June 2015 22:10 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Beatles have lots of unreleased rambling studio stuff because that's primarily how they worked in the later years. Without playing live the only way to get chops back was jamming it out in the studio.
Led Zeppelin were a touring act for their entirety. Plus two of the band members were studio pros, so yeah less prone to dicking around in studio.
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Wednesday, 3 June 2015 22:15 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
I am in a constant state of amazement of how much unreleased junk has come out of the Beach Boys vaults over the years, the output is staggering
― Οὖτις, Wednesday, 3 June 2015 22:25 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Serious question: does anyone ever listen to outtakes for enjoyment in the same way as they would the main feature? Or is listening to that stuff just an intellectual exercise or to satisfy curiosity as to how certain bands worked together, the way they interacted with one another, the way they developed up the tracks that would eventually become the main feature, or a window into what the band considered to be "not good enough" to be properly released?
I only ask because I've got copies of The Beatles' Anthology discs, and I've heard the Get Back bootlegs and all of that kind of stuff, and while it's all very interesting for maybe one or two spins, you can see why a lot of it ended it up on the cutting room floor and wasn't deemed worthy for release. Some might say they're "historical documents", but don't the proper releases count as that and do it far more successfully? I must have felt the urge to listen to Abbey Road hundreds upon hundreds of times, but hardly ever have I thought "yeah, Anthology 3, that's my listening for the night sorted!"
I get the feeling that when it comes to certain "classic" artists, people won't be satisfied until every single last note of the archives is released in some way, which they'll probably listen to once or twice at the very most.
― You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican), Thursday, 4 June 2015 00:43 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
I listen to the beatles anthology stuff all the time, esp 2
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 4 June 2015 00:54 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
I probably listen to the White Album demos more than most regular Beatles albums. I like to imagine it's their DIY K Records LP.
― ©Oz Quiz© (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 4 June 2015 01:07 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
I listen to outtakes mainly for pleasure ( see Prince as Exhibit #1). The "Oh! I see what they changed there!" moments happen for me the first couple of plays. Afterwards I rarely think about that stuff.
― Acid Hose (Capitaine Jay Vee), Thursday, 4 June 2015 01:08 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
I listen to outtakes, both as an exercise (hmm, where did this song come from?) and for pleasure, since there are often new things to hear/learn/enjoy. Prince, Springsteen ... so much cool stuff.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 4 June 2015 01:18 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
I get as much enjoyment out of Who, Miles, Coltrane, Hendrix, and some Beatles alternates/outtakes as I do from the master takes.
And speaking of the Who, few artists had an Odds & Sods in them, an outtakes compilation that stands up to (and in some cases betters) the regular output.
― Montgomery Burns' Jazz (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 4 June 2015 04:16 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Honestly it depends upon the band and how they worked. For the Beach Boys, for instance, there's three CDs worth of the band recording backing tracks for "Good Vibrations". I can't listen to that and get aesthetic enjoyment out of it, though it's a fascinating document for understanding Brian's process in the studio. On the other side of things is stuff like "The Complete Funhouse Sessions", where the Stooges went in and laid down the songs live in the studio, complete with vocals, multiple times, and then just picked the ones they like best. Any one of those is really about as good as any other.
Those are both pretty extreme examples. But what it boils down to is that, at least in the primary era for bootlegging, studio outtakes would often wind up being unreleased for reasons other than artistic merit. The Beach Boys are, again, a prime example. They have a ton of completed songs that didn't make it out officially either because they were a thoroughly dysfunctional band (see: Dennis' songs for "Surf's Up"), or because the songs were profoundly out of touch with the commercial realities of the day (see: "My Solution").
Another example of the way process changes can affect the listenability of outtakes, even within the same band, is Talking Heads. I really enjoy listening to the outtakes from "Fear of Music", because Eno and Byrne tried a lot of different things with the songs. Fripp was originally brought in to play on three or four different songs on the record, but only wound up on the finished record on one song. There's a version of "Cities" that incorporates a loud "WHOOP WHOOP WHOOP" noise during parts of the song (referenced by Byrne on the live version from "The Name of This Band Is..."). They did a version of "Mind" with extreme treatments on the vocals. I wouldn't argue that any of these versions are, in artistic terms, _better_ than the finished product, but they're enjoyable to listen to on their own terms.
"Remain in Light", in contrast, I don't enjoy listening to the outtakes for at all. It seems to me that the recording process for that was less open-ended. After making "Fear of Music", Byrne and Eno were more sure of themselves and what they wanted to do. So while "Remain in Light" is a more experimental album, the recording process was, at least based on existing documentation, less experimental.
The tipping point for me is possibly Nebraska. Springsteen, a major artist, recorded acoustic demos of his songs for the band to play, and afterwards decided he liked the acoustic demos better and released them as the album. The success of the Basement Tapes probably made that possible, and honestly the Basement Tapes are, I think, still the best go-to argument for listening to outtakes (or songwriting demos) as songs, because the way they were recorded was completely out of touch with the way the market worked back then.
Well, maybe the Basement Tapes are even more anomalous. Because with scattered exceptions like "I Go to Sleep", rock musicians didn't do songwriting demos. The sixties were the apex of the songwriter-performer cult.
Anyway, I think having enjoyable, listenable unreleased outtakes is mostly an artifact of the way the industry worked, technologically and sociologically, during the rock era. Today the process of construction is less likely to produce aesthetically enjoyable rejects, and the standard for what is considered "releasable" is more inclusive.
― rushomancy, Thursday, 4 June 2015 11:15 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
Yeah, there are some "Nebraska"-era demos that are incredible, like the menacing "Pink Cadillac," a stark contrast to the radio version. Re: Talking Heads, "Remain in the Light" was constructed largely out of jams, even more so than the previous records, so I'm not sure there are real outtakes, per se. Just bits and pieces and fragments. Ever heard a band try to play "Once in a Lifetime" like the record? It's pretty much impossible, since it was constructed in the studio and the one keeps moving around.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 4 June 2015 11:53 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
This Remain In Light outtake is pretty great
― NotKnowPotato (stevie), Thursday, 4 June 2015 12:02 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
I can hear bits and pieces of that creeping into "The Great Curve."
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 4 June 2015 13:31 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
tbh I just put outtakes on my ipod with the rest of the artists' catalog, they just become part of the body of work. so what if the Bee Gees never released/finished "Completely Unoriginal", it's still one of my favorite songs of theirs and it's really funny
― Οὖτις, Thursday, 4 June 2015 15:17 (4 weeks ago) Permalink
― You’re being too simplistic and you’re insulting my poor heart (Turrican), Wednesday, June 3, 2015 7:43 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Honestly if I had to choose between only listening to the Dylan bootleg series or the proper Dylan studio albums from now til the end of my life I would choose the Bootleg Series
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 5 June 2015 18:51 (3 weeks ago) Permalink
and don't get me started on what's supposed to be on Neil Young Archives Vol II
but Dylan's weird contrariness is legendary, why he left "Blind Willie McTell" off of Infidels and kept "Union Sundown" or "Neighborhood Bully" god only knows
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 5 June 2015 18:52 (3 weeks ago) Permalink
Yeah, I guess I would make a distinction between outtakes and alternate takes. Because if I'm being honest, the latter not so much. But demos and unreleased stuff from acts, sure.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 5 June 2015 19:28 (3 weeks ago) Permalink
“Two Ones Are Won”“10 Ribs & All/Carrot Pod Pod (Pod)”
curious about these 2 presence outtakes and also i've been waiting for presence in general, i wonder how the remaster will affect its sort of compelling murkiness
― kurt kobaïan (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 5 June 2015 20:24 (3 weeks ago) Permalink
“10 Ribs & All/Carrot Pod Pod (Pod)”
Is this a Pavement cover?
― chr1sb3singer, Friday, 5 June 2015 20:27 (3 weeks ago) Permalink
features Robert Plant doing a Mark E. Smith impression
― Οὖτις, Friday, 5 June 2015 20:27 (3 weeks ago) Permalink
Pretty sure that song was on the Pacific trim 7"
― chr1sb3singer, Friday, 5 June 2015 20:28 (3 weeks ago) Permalink