Defend the Indefensible - Alanis Morissette

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Don't think we did this DtI yet, I searched.

Um, um, um......
"Thank You" and "Head Over Feet" are kinda ok songs, at least in comparison to some of her other crap.
I really liked You Can't Do That On Television when I was little.
KS casting her as God in Dogma made me chuckle a bit.
The Curb Your Enthusiasm where she hurts her neck and then sings all weak and off key at the party was pretty funny.

That's about it for me, what say you?

― Every country has their stupid (AaronHz), Sunday, 21 November 2004 23:13 (8 years ago) Permalink

Misuse of word "ironic" in song lyric raised public awareness of correct use of word.

― Ken L (Ken L), Sunday, 21 November 2004 23:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

Her music hasn't aged well and I didn't dig it much in the first place. Now she sounds like an Avril Lavigne who should know better.

But defense...hmm...

her version of "King Of Pain" is even funnier than the original.

― miccio (miccio), Sunday, 21 November 2004 23:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

There is something worthwhile and enjoyable in every single thing she's recorded.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Sunday, 21 November 2004 23:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

Even if it's 'enjoyable' in the sense that you get to laugh at it.

Jagged Little Pill is still a pretty good album, with some really amazing moments (and some great lyrics! This is surprising in retrospect.)

― The Lex (The Lex), Sunday, 21 November 2004 23:23 (8 years ago) Permalink

i'm inclined to think alanis had some undeniably catchy melodies. "one hand in my pocket" and "hands clean" spring to mind - and there's plenty more, especially on the first album.

i'm also inclined to think that she didn't make good use of her strengths. she focussed to much on fee-form stream-of-consciousness meandering twaddle - greater emphasis on snappy observations and catchy tunes, and she'd have bben great.

― weasel diesel (K1l14n), Sunday, 21 November 2004 23:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

"So Pure" is a brilliant single.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Sunday, 21 November 2004 23:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

"And are you thinking of me when you fuck her" is an excellent lyric to vent anger to when you are dumped.

― ailsa (ailsa), Sunday, 21 November 2004 23:43 (8 years ago) Permalink

"You Oughta Know" is a brilliant song all the way around; it really sells fury in a way that I can't see Avril doing, largely because Avril seems way too happy and well-adjusted to rage like that.

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Sunday, 21 November 2004 23:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

her critical reasessment with the advent of 90s nostalgia is nigh! i was just talking the other day about how 'you oughta know' is much better than i remembered it. god she was so omnipresent in the mid 90s though

― jake b. (cerybut), Sunday, 21 November 2004 23:52 (8 years ago) Permalink

i'm inclined to think alanis had some undeniably catchy melodies. "one hand in my pocket" and "hands clean" spring to mind - and there's plenty more, especially on the first album.

"Too Hot" is dumb fun, yessir.

― Vic Funk, Sunday, 21 November 2004 23:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

It's weird because while there's a lot of songs about her I just don't like, my reaction to y'all bringing up "You Oughta Know" is more curious to me in that I have no memory of the song at all! I mean, I know it exists, of course, but I tried humming it to myself just now, then I tried thinking of anything about it, and...nothing. Not a thing. It must have been "Ironic" where I first noticed and got annoyed.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 21 November 2004 23:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

I still can't believe that song's about Dave Coulier of Full House-fame...where's a full list of how he wronged her. To be honest, though, I think "You Oughta Know" is one of the most pathetic (as in what the content says...not how it was written) lyrics ever...it's not furious, it's desperate!

The whole God thing in Dogma was funny...that's the only redeemable quality about her, aside from that she got slimed on You Can't Do That On Television.

― Ian Moraine (Eastern Mantra), Sunday, 21 November 2004 23:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

dan perry hits the nail on the fucking head. classic for that song alone. if i still had a copy of jagged little pill i'll get it and figure out what tracks on it i liked.. there were definitely one or two more i was super into. i don't know if they'd hold up, but..

xpost

― Ian John50n (orion), Sunday, 21 November 2004 23:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

The other really really amazing songs on Jagged Little Pill are "Forgiven" (the Catholic guilt one) and "Your House", the acappella hidden track. The rest I remember being good, but it's been years since I knew where my copy was. I wish I had it to hand now!

― The Lex (The Lex), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

Oh, some of the production choices on Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie are completely insane. It's fun to listen to on headphones in the dark.

― Every country has their stupid (AaronHz), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

Because the world needs songs about Dave Coulier.

― Maxwell von Bismarck (maxwell von bismarck), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

Hands Clean is GLORIOUS

― Alex in Doncaster (Alex in Doncaster), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

Hmmm.. Possibly the most annoying voice ever...

― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

classic for encouraging chicks to go down on dudes in the-atres. very few better respected rock bands of the past 15 years have had that nice of an impact on my life.

― toothy philanthropist, Monday, 22 November 2004 00:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

To be honest, though, I think "You Oughta Know" is one of the most pathetic (as in what the content says...not how it was written) lyrics ever...it's not furious, it's desperate!

It comes across as desperate and slightly unhinged, like she's the Jennifer Jason Leigh character in "Single White Female".

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:35 (8 years ago) Permalink

She does get a point for probably being capable of clearing out bars in Williamsburg when you play her...unless those hipster bastards are into being purposefully ironic or kitschy.

― Ian Moraine (Eastern Mantra), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

"Every time I scratch my nails down someone else's back, I hope you feel it[, Dave Coulier]!"

CREEPY

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:41 (8 years ago) Permalink

Sting trapped in the body of a kooky canuck

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:48 (8 years ago) Permalink

Songs I'd like if I didn't find Alanis completely unstomachable right now.

"You Learn"
"You Oughta Know"
"So Pure" (that's the one about the free-stylin' chance where she's dancing in different styles in the video, right?)
"Uninvited"
"What I Really Want"

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

Festivals are one of my favourite things to do. I don't know if we've ever done Reading, I'll find out and see

the nme random alanis quote generator is fun.

― keith m (keithmcl), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:54 (8 years ago) Permalink

INSUFFERABLE TO THE LAST!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

"what I really want" is one of the ones i liked! haven't heard it in years though.

― Ian John50n (orion), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

It's probably my favorite in hindsight.

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 22 November 2004 00:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

Is that the same as "All I Really Want"?

― Every country has their stupid (AaronHz), Monday, 22 November 2004 01:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

yeah, that's it.

d'oh.

― Ian John50n (orion), Monday, 22 November 2004 01:13 (8 years ago) Permalink

Oh, for a minute I thought she had a sequel on one of her newer CDs, like "Unforgiven II" or something.

― Every country has their stupid (AaronHz), Monday, 22 November 2004 01:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

Ned got it right -- I heard that song hundreds of times and I can't recall it now for the life of me. Memorable as image, sexual politics, lyrics, whatever but as music? Eminently forgettable. But I have to admit I found her attractive in a tomboy-ish kinda way.

― lovebug starski (lovebug starski), Monday, 22 November 2004 02:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

i don't think i'll get most of her jingles out my head

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 22 November 2004 02:17 (8 years ago) Permalink

My friend Eric has memorably covered "One Hand in My Pocket" in an amusing but not ironic way.

― Sanjay McDougal (jaymc), Monday, 22 November 2004 02:34 (8 years ago) Permalink

She gave her drummer to the Foo Fighters so Dave Grohl could spend less time worrying about the drum parts and more time writing awesome songs like "Learn to Fly" and "Times Like These."

Wait, you said defend?

― earinfections (Nick Twisp), Monday, 22 November 2004 02:46 (8 years ago) Permalink

i really like "uninvited" and then i liked it even more when i watched some live concert they showed on VH1 at the time. i enjoyed the fake zep thing.

― scott seward (scott seward), Monday, 22 November 2004 02:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

"Hand In My Pocket" makes my Anthrax On A Tampax list: Songs That Turn Me Into A Virulent Misogynist If I Am In Earshot.

― miccio (miccio), Monday, 22 November 2004 02:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

Nice hair?

― Piers (piers), Monday, 22 November 2004 05:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

"blessed duplicity" amazing lyric, so C for that reason.
considering the current class of awfull teen and twenty something singer songwriters, she is way ahead of the curve.

― lukey (Lukey G), Monday, 22 November 2004 09:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

Where does she say "blessed duplicity"? I know she calls old man Coulier "Mr. Duplicity" on "You Outta Know".

― Every country has their stupid (AaronHz), Monday, 22 November 2004 10:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

She is mortal and will die.

― Forksclovetofu (Forksclovetofu), Monday, 22 November 2004 10:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

"Outta" haha.

― Every country has their stupid (AaronHz), Monday, 22 November 2004 10:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

Her boyfriends are hot. Except Dave Coulier.

― Titsy Borgnine (Arthur), Monday, 22 November 2004 16:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

HA HA I AM IN THERE oh damn.

― Sad, Rejected Dave Coulier (Dan Perry), Monday, 22 November 2004 16:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

i didn't like anything off her first album but agree with several people that 'So Pure', 'Thank You' and 'Hands Clean' are good

― Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Monday, 22 November 2004 16:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

"Stinky britches, I got stinky britches..."

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 22 November 2004 16:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

"Thank You" is astonishing. (haha I have identified another Dan/Ned bifurcation)

― The Ghost of Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 22 November 2004 16:32 (8 years ago) Permalink

Indeed! We must make careful note of this.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 22 November 2004 16:32 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'll be the first to admit that many of my favorite musicians are guilty of herculean pretentiousness (Jaz Coleman could never be accused of being humble), but I find Alanis to be so incredibly, insufferably earnest and fuckin' HIGH on herself that I can barely put it into words. Indefensible. Indefensible. Indefensible.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 22 November 2004 16:32 (8 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 21 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I'm regretting my exclamation mark. But turning on the radio in the mid-90s meant getting an earful from some rich rocker about how their life is just unbearably, and worse, often existentially hard. At least Alanis had some prick to be pissed at.

― danh (danh), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 15:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

I am decidedly not in the habit of cutting extra slack for my fellow Canadians, but "You Oughta Know" is absolutely classic, one of the 15 greatest singles of the '90s, and "Hand In My Pocket" and a coupla others are pretty good too. Most of the rest sucks, but give her credit for having the balls to feature her own crappy harmonica playing on a record.

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Tuesday, 23 November 2004 16:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

5 years pass...

I've been scared to find out what she sounds like (I'm sure I've heard her, but I really genuinely don't remember any particular song or even sound), because of the way Shiina Ringo's early music is said to be similar in some ways, but now I find I kind of like "Ironic."

(Why does everything I listen to all sound like it has doumbeks in it? Is it just me?)

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 11:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

So maybe 90s revival critical reassessment time is at hand.

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 11:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

Is this guy playing a Duesenberg guitar?

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 11:27 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think this is okay. A couple other songs were just kind of boring.

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 11:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

I like "You Oughta Know." I'm relieved to find out what she sounds like, not embarrassed.

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 11:32 (3 years ago) Permalink

I raise a Zima to the 90s.

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 11:33 (3 years ago) Permalink

This is wild:

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 11:39 (3 years ago) Permalink

This is amazing.

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 11:43 (3 years ago) Permalink

Memorable as image, sexual politics, lyrics, whatever but as music?

Better as music than any of those other things. I like the rhythm and energy and crescendos and so on. I remember this song, but I can't remember at all whether I liked it at the time.

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 11:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

"How about getting off these antibiotics" is the first line of the song, that's wild.

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 12:06 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think "You Oughta Know" reminds me a bit of Neil Young's "Mr. Soul" (in terms of vocal rhythms, not nec. anything else).

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 12:14 (3 years ago) Permalink

I love "Thank You" so much :)

― Daily Sport Stunna Yasmin Alibhai Brown (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 1 May 2010 12:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

Some of these old Alanis Morissette threads are pretty mean.

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 12:42 (3 years ago) Permalink

This shit is fucking awesome. So weird that I am only reconnecting performer and music now.

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 12:50 (3 years ago) Permalink

The only ones I really don't like at all so far are the ballads.

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 12:51 (3 years ago) Permalink

ILM's poppism in revealed-as-largely-theoretical shockah.

gypsy mothra otm.

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 12:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

(at least at the time he made that post.)

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 12:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

"Hands Clean" is better than you remember.

― cool and remote like dancing girls (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 1 May 2010 12:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

I like that one. I guess I wasn't including that. Thinking especially of the ballads with piano.

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 13:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

I wasn't going to say it, but since so many people have put down her looks in comments on ILM, I think she's cute.

― _Rudipherous_, Saturday, 1 May 2010 13:55 (3 years ago) Permalink

1995 was a peak year for me being out of touch with anything current (musically) in the English-speaking world, so in some ways the mystery is how I even heard some of these songs. (First half of the year was dominated by not being able to breathe through my nose thanks to sinus problems; the second half was when I tried to recover from being an invalid: taking Brazilian dance classes and that sort of thing.)

― _Rudipherous_, Sunday, 2 May 2010 01:35 (3 years ago) Permalink

there is no defense for alanis morissette.

― Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 2 May 2010 01:37 (3 years ago) Permalink

So wrong.

― _Rudipherous_, Sunday, 2 May 2010 01:41 (3 years ago) Permalink

I like her. I used to watch MTV just to see her videos.

― Band Fag X (u s steel), Sunday, 2 May 2010 02:06 (3 years ago) Permalink

i LOVE head over feet tbh.

― ian, Sunday, 2 May 2010 02:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

i mean, i own jagged little pill on LP. i paid $12 for it.

― ian, Sunday, 2 May 2010 02:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

No idea why Alanis is indefensible. Jagged Little Pill is total classic.

― Mordy, Sunday, 2 May 2010 02:18 (3 years ago) Permalink

― Siegbran, Sunday, 2 May 2010 02:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

Jagged Little Pill is total classic

You were so close there I had to fix it.

― EZ Snappin, Sunday, 2 May 2010 02:22 (3 years ago) Permalink

Now listening to Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie "Baba" is great. So she apparently went to India for a time?

― _Rudipherous_, Sunday, 2 May 2010 05:29 (3 years ago) Permalink

Okay, as I listen to more of this album I am feeling a little more sympathetic toward the anti-Alanis hostility (though I still think it's way over-generalized). She can be awfully self-righteous about being completely impossible, but it's not as though we don't have to be in a relationship with her. The lyrics here just get totally out of hand as it goes on (not exactly in a linear progression, but as the album moves on), more and more of a straight journal entry sort of sound as others have described her lyrics in general. But the music too is less interesting than on Jagged Little Pill (overall), even though there are some good things here and there. This is all on first listen (and most of this I really don't recognize).

― _Rudipherous_, Sunday, 2 May 2010 06:33 (3 years ago) Permalink

her first two albums were THE SHIT when i was depressed during middle school/high school, but her subsequent albums have been a lot mellower, not necessarily sound-wise but personality-wise. instead of lashing-out and rage, she's processing things maturely, which lends this pop-psychology flavor to her lyrics that doesn't excite me very much.

also just in case you're feeling completionist, rudipherous, here's the Thank U b-side called Pollyanna Flower:

― known glimmervampyr bobby patentleather (reddening), Sunday, 2 May 2010 06:52 (3 years ago) Permalink

Thanks, I like that too (now that I've heard it).

― _Rudipherous_, Sunday, 2 May 2010 07:27 (3 years ago) Permalink

Don't miss out on "Uninvited," Rudipherous.

― Brad Nelson (BradNelson), Sunday, 2 May 2010 11:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

Okay. I'm still digesting "You Oughta Know." "but you're still alive. . ." I can relate to the viciousness of that.

― _Rudipherous_, Sunday, 2 May 2010 12:53 (3 years ago) Permalink

I'm finding "Uninvited" a bit tedious. Maybe that was the point.

― _Rudipherous_, Sunday, 2 May 2010 13:01 (3 years ago) Permalink

just listened to "Thank You", which I had totally forgotten existed. on the one hand, the beat and vocal melody are really nice; but jesus christ, can that woman write some terrible lyrics or what?

― INSUFFICIENT FUN (bernard snowy), Sunday, 2 May 2010 13:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

I think her lyrics are mostly pretty good and quite knowing about their own preciousness.

― Daily Sport Stunna Yasmin Alibhai Brown (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 2 May 2010 13:56 (3 years ago) Permalink

revive timed for kentucky derby obv

― controll-s (velko), Sunday, 2 May 2010 16:16 (3 years ago) Permalink

I have to admit the lyrics are a big part of the fun for me in "Thank You," but I'm not simply laughing at them.

I think her lyrics are mostly pretty good and quite knowing about their own preciousness.

I tend to agree with this, especially the second part. I suspect she's more aware of the ridiculous side of her songs than people give her credit for.

― _Rudipherous_, Sunday, 2 May 2010 23:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

I still would love hear someone sample the opening of Thank You to great effect.

― tart w/ a heart (a hoy hoy), Monday, 3 May 2010 00:09 (3 years ago) Permalink

The beginning is especially great. Actually, when I heard it I thought I had heard it somewhere else, but I think I was being reminded of something on side two of "Aerial Tal"!

― _Rudipherous_, Monday, 3 May 2010 00:14 (3 years ago) Permalink

iirc UR is also terrific off that record

― tart w/ a heart (a hoy hoy), Monday, 3 May 2010 00:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

Awful drum machines on everything I've heard from her.

― Moka, Monday, 3 May 2010 05:26 (3 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

http://open.spotify.com/track/0Dw9z44gXhplDh5HCWZIxP

― an independent online phenomenon (DJP), Thursday, 12 April 2012 15:50 (1 year ago) Permalink

6 months pass...

http://gawker.com/5952403/alanis-morissette-music-leads-to-domestic-abuse-case-in-florida

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 17 October 2012 04:53 (7 months ago) Permalink

how have i never seen this thread before

― 69, Wednesday, 17 October 2012 05:12 (7 months ago) Permalink

"You live you learn, You love you learn, You cry you learn, You lose you learn, You bleed you learn, You scream you learn." You just don't hit your boyfriend in the face with a plate. But, you learn.

^ lol @ this

― suggest butt (Pillbox), Wednesday, 17 October 2012 05:15 (7 months ago) Permalink

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