analyze the lyrics of "Do they know it's Christmas" here

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It's Christmas time
There's no need to be afraid
At Christmas time
We let in light and we banish shade
And in our world of plenty
We can spread a smile of joy
Throw your arms around the world
At Christmas time

2: But say a prayer
Pray for the other ones
At Christmas time it's hard
But when you're having fun
There's a world outside your window
And it's a world of dread and fear
Where the only water flowing
Is the bitter sting of tears
And the Christmas bells that ring
There are the clanging chimes of doom
Well tonight thank God it's them instead of you

Feed the world
Let them know it's Christmas time
Feed the world
Do they know it's Christmas time at all?

3: And there won't be snow in Africa
This Christmas time
The greatest gift they'll get this year is life
Where nothing ever grows
No rain nor rivers flow
Do they know it's Christmas time at all?

Feed the world
Let them know it's Christmas time
Feed the world
Let them know it's Christmas time again

BRIDGE:
(Here's to you) raise a glass for everyone
(Here's to them) underneath that burning sun
Do they know it's Christmas time at all?

END: Feed the world
Let them know it's Christmas time

END: (repeat & fade)

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 23:38 (10 years ago) Permalink

We let in light and we banish shade

nice work. just what africa needs, less shade.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 23:41 (10 years ago) Permalink

And the Christmas bells that ring
There are the clanging chimes of doom

i like this though, very Dickens and all.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 23:42 (10 years ago) Permalink

"And there won't be snow in Africa
This Christmas time"

Horrors! HELP THE POOR SNOWLESS AFRICANS!

This song has always been straight-up post-missionary shite. I await the day when a bunch of Middle Eastern pop stars put out a charity single to help impoverished Appalachians or to send dentists to Brighton, called "Do they know it's Ramadan."

carl w (carl w), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 23:54 (10 years ago) Permalink

This has probably been said before, but given that the majority of people from Ethiopia are muslim wasn't the line "thank God it's them instead of you" open to misinterpretation? And "let them know it's Christmas time" for that matter?

The Horse of Babylon (the pirate king), Tuesday, 16 November 2004 23:57 (10 years ago) Permalink

Where nothing ever grows
No rain nor rivers flow
Do they know it's Christmas time at all?

Which lifeforms does "they" in that last line refer to, I do wonder!?

t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:10 (10 years ago) Permalink

Where the only water flowing
Is the bitter sting of tears

S&M.

Feed the world
Let them know it's Christmas time

Cannibalism.

(Here's to you) raise a glass for everyone
(Here's to them) underneath that burning sun

Very savvy references that thematically unify the work of Shane MacGowen with Emerson, Lake & Palmer's Love Beach. It would be interesting to see what these lines reveal when played backwards.

Joe (Joe), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:17 (10 years ago) Permalink

But when you're having fun
There's a world outside your window
And it's a world of dread and fear

I'm not quite sure what definition of "fun" they're using

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:19 (10 years ago) Permalink

"And there won't be snow in Africa
This Christmas time"

Um, what's all that white stuff on top of Kilimanjaro?

Wooden (Wooden), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 00:24 (10 years ago) Permalink


Offer to feed the world, but only if they want to accept it and we're not being missionary or condescending or colonialist and don't offer them pork

Do they know it's a non-denominational holiday-related festive-type time of year at all?

wetmink (wetmink), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:27 (10 years ago) Permalink

I think this song is about cunnilingus.

Every country has their stupid (AaronHz), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:30 (10 years ago) Permalink

This has probably been said before, but given that the majority of people from Ethiopia are muslim wasn't the line "thank God it's them instead of you" open to misinterpretation? And "let them know it's Christmas time" for that matter?

doesn't matter if they're muslim or jewish or hindu or martian -- that is a mind-bogglingly weird line any way you slice it. assuming you're some kind of christian, which presumably you are if you're trying to save an entire continent by exporting christmas to them, i'm reasonably sure your own bible doesn't recommend you "thank god" for someone else's misery. i'm sure the intentions were good. but the line is truly awful.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:34 (10 years ago) Permalink

...so i guess my question is: are there ANY intepretations of the above line that reflect positively on the singer?

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:37 (10 years ago) Permalink

if you consider being a self-absorbed shit a positive virtue, then yes.

I can't believe this abortion of a record has become a kind of industry "tradition". Shame on you limeys! At least us dumb Americans don't even bother to pretend to care about anyone else in the world anymore...

(love the "Do They Know its Ramadan?" scenario)

Shakey Mo Collier, Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:39 (10 years ago) Permalink

...so i guess my question is: are there ANY intepretations of the above line that reflect positively on the singer?

I guess "be thankful for what you have because it could be much worse."

wetmink (wetmink), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 01:51 (10 years ago) Permalink

Actually, the majority of Ethiopians are Orthodox Christians, not Muslims.

bvpcvms, Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:01 (10 years ago) Permalink

in that case i guess it's ok to thank the creator for making them poor and hungry.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:07 (10 years ago) Permalink

At least it reflects what we all actually think when we see famine/disaster items on the news. Genuine real-life ambiguity,
not a load of sloppy platitudes like the US one - We Are the World
or whatever it was called. Okay maybe just that line. It's not nice
or admirable, but it does make you uneasy. Good idea for this sorta thing.

Masked Gazza, Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:25 (10 years ago) Permalink

I always thought that That Line was supposed to be sarcastic and translated it as "You're all just grateful it's happening to someone you don't know instead of yourselves, feel bad. Thank god it's them instead of you, eh?". As Gazza said, I gathered it was supposed to make people feel uneasy by pointing out their thoughts bluntly to show how ridiculous they were. I'm not too sure about that anymore though.

"Feed the world
Do they know it's Christmas time at all?"

Probably, given that a huge portion of the south of the continent is so strongly Catholic that condoms are heavily discouraged, leading to that very famous aids crisis there at the moment.

lupine lupin (lupinelupin), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 02:55 (10 years ago) Permalink

well of course the christainizing culture forces itself upon the pagan hordes.

lupine lupin, thatis excelent screen name. you are lycanthrope, no?

Mr. Vas Djifrens (byzantum), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 03:09 (10 years ago) Permalink

I think the words are better than the tune.

Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 03:22 (10 years ago) Permalink

My dad used to pitch bitch fits about the "there won't be snow in Africa" line too. Mainly because Africa is in the Southern Hemisphere.

Allyzay Science Explosion (allyzay), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 05:24 (10 years ago) Permalink

it has only snowed twice around Christmas time in the 26 years i have been inhabiting Southern England

Freelance Hiveminder (blueski), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 13:47 (10 years ago) Permalink

**Where nothing ever grows
No rain nor rivers flow**

A slight exaggeration perhaps?

Dr. C (Dr. C), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 13:54 (10 years ago) Permalink

Yes, but it's postively Shakespearean compared to this load of cobblers.

We Are The World

There comes a time when we need a certain call
When the world must come together as one
There are people dying
Oh, and it's time to lend a hand to life
The greatest gift of all

We can't go on pretending day by day
That someone, somehow will soon make a change
We're all a part of God's great big family
And the truth - you know love is all we need

We are the world, we are the children
We are the ones who make a brighter day
so let's start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day
Just you and me

Well, send'em you your heart
So they know that someone cares
And their lives will be stronger and free
As God has shown us
By turning stone to bread
And so we all must lend a helping hand

When you're down and out
There seems no hope at all
But if you just believe
There's no way we can fall
Well, well, well, let's realize
That one change can only come
When we stand together as one

Good Dog, Wednesday, 17 November 2004 14:09 (10 years ago) Permalink

There can be few less edifying sights than an over-educated hipster dickhead offering facile criticism of a charity record.
Whether the song's lyrics stand up to analysis, or indeed whether the song is any good at all, is irrelevant. Geldof & co. are devoting time and energy to an attempt to improve the chances of survival of some of the most unfortunate people and the world. Unless you've got a better idea for helping them, you'd be best advised to shut up.

Palomino (Palomino), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 14:19 (10 years ago) Permalink

Times I hear "We Are the World" on the radio each year: 0
Times I hear "Do They know IT's CHirstmas" on the radio each December: A trillion

Winner: We Are the World

Krissy Duncan (kdruinscsayn), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 14:22 (10 years ago) Permalink

"We are the ones who make a brighter day
so let's start giving
There's a choice we're making
We're saving our own lives
It's true we'll make a better day
Just you and me"

Oasis' real inspiration revealed!

Masked Gazza, Wednesday, 17 November 2004 14:35 (10 years ago) Permalink

Whether the song's lyrics stand up to analysis, or indeed whether the song is any good at all, is irrelevant. Geldof & co. are devoting time and energy to an attempt to improve the chances of survival of some of the most unfortunate people and the world. Unless you've got a better idea for helping them, you'd be best advised to shut up.

no one's criticizing the concept or the effort. just the words of the song. charity good. crappy writing bad. that's all.

masked gazza 110 percent OTM about oasis.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:25 (10 years ago) Permalink

"Whether the song's lyrics stand up to analysis, or indeed whether the song is any good at all, is irrelevant."


I disagree 100%. If the song's irrelevant then they shouldn't have written and recorded a song, they should have just done a series of PSAs asking people to donate money. Instead, they created a work of art, which at the end of the day -- since people have spent money on it -- must live and die by its own artistic achievements.

I happen to like the song loads -- I'm capable of shutting out silly lyrics when I need to -- but am enjoying these analyses immensely.

Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:32 (10 years ago) Permalink

If the song's irrelevant then they shouldn't have written and recorded a song

to be fair to palomino's argument, which i otherwise disagree with, he's not saying the song is irrelevant. he's saying the quality of the song is irrelevant. if they just did a series of PSAs, it seems likely they would have made a lot less money for the cause than they made with the song.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:43 (10 years ago) Permalink

"he's not saying the song is irrelevant. he's saying the quality of the song is irrelevant."

I'm honestly not grasping the difference. Why write a new song if quality is irrelevant? They could have just recorded "Happy Birthday" or "Jingle Bells" and saved themselves a lot of time. But they didn't, which I should think means quality counts for something.

Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:49 (10 years ago) Permalink

i think the basic concept of that, and all similar efforts, is, "write a new, catchy song, and they will come." both "do they know..." and "we are the world" undoubtedly succeed in the catchy department, and therefore succeeded in getting a message across to their listeners in a way that a simple PSA could not possibly have achieved.

both songs had pretty huge shortcomings, too, but their very existence certainly did make a difference.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:54 (10 years ago) Permalink

i saw jimmy fallon & jack black do this song last year
when jimmy fallon opened for the strokes on the wyckyd scepter tour
it was actually kinda fun

christopher (WHO), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:55 (10 years ago) Permalink

it might have been 2 years ago

christopher (WHO), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 15:56 (10 years ago) Permalink

There can be few less edifying sights than an over-educated hipster dickhead offering facile criticism of a charity record.

You're a good fucking time, Palomino.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 17:45 (10 years ago) Permalink

Actually, the majority of Ethiopians are Orthodox Christians, not Muslims.
-- bvpcvms (bvpcvm...), November 17th, 2004 9:01 PM. (later)

This is what I thought too, but I looked it up on a factbook site and lo and behold, 50-55% are Muslim! So much for the "great Christian Kingdom"

Curt1s St3ph3ns, Wednesday, 17 November 2004 19:02 (10 years ago) Permalink

"Well, well, well, let's realize
That one change can only come"

So that's what Cindy Lauper was screaming.....

kickitcricket (kickitcricket), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 19:16 (10 years ago) Permalink

There can be few less edifying sights than an over-educated hipster dickhead offering facile criticism of a charity record.

What about over-educated hipster dickheads facilely criticising the invasion of Iraq? I mean, at least Bush & Co. are devoting their energies to improving the chances of survival of some of the most unfortunate people in the world. By bombing them, mostly.

What about over-educated hipster dickheads facilely criticising the Catholic Church? I mean, at least John Paul II & Co. are devoting their energies to improving the chances of survival of some of the most unfortunate people in the world. By making sure there's lots more of them to go around.

At what point does one become over-educated? I want to know when to stop reading books and start burning them.

Sorry for having a different opinion.

noodle vague (noodle vague), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 20:31 (10 years ago) Permalink

You're a good time, too, noodle vague.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 20:57 (10 years ago) Permalink

Well, the Kilimanjaro gags were already taken.

noodle vague (noodle vague), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 21:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

Oh, and if you think people are overeducated, I'll refer you here.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 21:05 (10 years ago) Permalink

Who thinks people are over-educated!?!? You didn't notice the vaguest hint of irony in what I posted?

noodle vague (noodle vague), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 21:07 (10 years ago) Permalink

Who thinks people are over-educated!?!?

Possibly David Brooks!

You didn't notice the vaguest hint of irony in what I posted?

Morals are the new irony, dude.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 21:10 (10 years ago) Permalink

If I understood that, I'd reply.

noodle vague (noodle vague), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 21:14 (10 years ago) Permalink

Sorry, I work on Capitol Hill — I'm kind of drowning in conservative assholes.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 21:26 (10 years ago) Permalink

Oh, okay then. I can imagine that would be wearing.

I was just pissed off with the "charity can never be criticised" bollocks I quoted at the beginning.

noodle vague (noodle vague), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 21:35 (10 years ago) Permalink

>This is what I thought too, but I looked it up on a factbook site and lo and behold, 50-55% are Muslim! So much for the "great Christian Kingdom"

thats actually approx. the christian population, muslim is abt 48 with abt 2% animist (margins of error on both which is why it does not add up)

the history of ethiopia's ruling classes has been predominantly christian tho, which is where that "christian kingdom" comes from. but prob. the longest and best example of peaceful coexistence between the two faiths

H (Heruy), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 21:52 (10 years ago) Permalink

Yes, but it's postively Shakespearean compared to this load of cobblers.

(snip)

Which, in turn, is a Nobel prize candidate when compared to this work by the same author:

There's A Place In
Your Heart
And I Know That It Is Love
And This Place Could
Be Much
Brighter Than Tomorrow
And If You Really Try
You'll Find There's No Need
To Cry
In This Place You'll Feel
There's No Hurt Or Sorrow

There Are Ways
To Get There
If You Care Enough
For The Living
Make A Little Space
Make A Better Place...

Heal The World
Make It A Better Place
For You And For Me
And The Entire Human Race
There Are People Dying
If You Care Enough
For The Living
Make A Better Place
For You And For Me

If You Want To Know Why
There's A Love That
Cannot Lie
Love Is Strong
It Only Cares For
Joyful Giving
If We Try
We Shall See
In This Bliss
We Cannot Feel
Fear Or Dread
We Stop Existing And
Start Living

Then It Feels That Always
Love's Enough For
Us Growing
So Make A Better World
Make A Better World...

Heal The World
Make It A Better Place
For You And For Me
And The Entire Human Race
There Are People Dying
If You Care Enough
For The Living
Make A Better Place
For You And For Me

And The Dream We Were
Conceived In
Will Reveal A Joyful Face
And The World We
Once Believed In
Will Shine Again In Grace
Then Why Do We Keep
Strangling Life
Wound This Earth
Crucify Its Soul
Though It's Plain To See
This World Is Heavenly
Be God's Glow

We Could Fly So High
Let Our Spirits Never Die
In My Heart
I Feel You Are All
My Brothers
Create A World With
No Fear
Together We'll Cry
Happy Tears
See The Nations Turn
Their Swords
Into Plowshares

We Could Really Get There
If You Cared Enough
For The Living
Make A Little Space
To Make A Better Place...

Heal The World
Make It A Better Place
For You And For Me
And The Entire Human Race
There Are People Dying
If You Care Enough
For The Living
Make A Better Place
For You And For Me

Heal The World
Make It A Better Place
For You And For Me
And The Entire Human Race
There Are People Dying
If You Care Enough
For The Living
Make A Better Place
For You And For Me

Heal The World
Make It A Better Place
For You And For Me
And The Entire Human Race
There Are People Dying
If You Care Enough
For The Living
Make A Better Place
For You And For Me

There Are People Dying
If You Care Enough
For The Living
Make A Better Place
For You And For Me

There Are People Dying
If You Care Enough
For The Living
Make A Better Place
For You And For Me

You And For Me
You And For Me
You And For Me
You And For Me
You And For Me
You And For Me
You And For Me
You And For Me
You And For Me
You And For Me
You And For Me

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 22:38 (10 years ago) Permalink

Regarding Ethiopia and religion, Islam is on the rise in the region. I would guess Christianity was still in majority by 1984.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 22:39 (10 years ago) Permalink

what do ethiopian people make of rastafarianism, H? i still owe you a cd don't i?

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 22:43 (10 years ago) Permalink

xpost

Wow, with those lyrics laid out with Every Word Capitalized, it looks almost like the next Fiona Apple album title.

Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 22:44 (10 years ago) Permalink

Possible. I just used copy'n'paste :)

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 22:55 (10 years ago) Permalink

> At what point does one become over-educated?

I would contend that it's the point at which one applies one's hard-won wealth of knowledge to the pursuit of shooting fish in a barrel.

The Voltaire Medal for Even-Handedness goes to Fact Checking Cuz for his defense of a viewpoint that he doesn't agree with.

Finally, I would like to point out that it's entirely unfair to conflate a defense of Band Aid with support for Neo-Con ideology or Catholic ideology.

Palomino (Palomino), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 23:56 (10 years ago) Permalink

how much "relief" Geldof's undertaking provided to the Ethiopians is highly questionable, and this was addressed on some other thread (I forget who brought up OxFam and their policies/politics as a counter-example of groups actually being pro-active and attempting to counter the causes of famine, rather than get a bunch of billionaires together for a photo op). I read Geldof's autobiography ("So What?") in high school and concluded that his motivations were pretty suspect and the guy was generally an asshole.

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 18 November 2004 00:16 (10 years ago) Permalink

Geldof's autobiography is titled Is That It?, actually.
I've observed that there seems to be a certain section of the populace who object, at some fundamental level, to pop stars who attempt to leverage their fame or contacts in the pursuit of the common good. Bono working for debt relief for the Third World? "What an egotistical prick." Geldof mouthing off about famine? "Asshole. Who does he think he is?"
I think they're admirable, actually. Maybe they make you feel guilty about your lassitude or lack of empathy, but an attempt to detract from their good works reflects badly on you, not on them.

Palomino (Palomino), Thursday, 18 November 2004 00:31 (10 years ago) Permalink

sorry I screwed up the title, I threw the book away a long time ago.
I don't disapprove of their empathy, I disapprove of the willfully egotistical way they go about publicizing it. Best way to affect change is to lead by example and address problems directly. There are a number of artist/activists I admire. Geldof is not one of them.

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 18 November 2004 00:35 (10 years ago) Permalink

and again, whether or not Geldof's work qualifies as "good" is something that is open to debate.

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 18 November 2004 00:36 (10 years ago) Permalink

But of course. We are fortunate to be citizens of democratic nations, where everything is open to debate.
But I'm sure that most people would agree that Geldof's work for famine relief >>>>>>> than doing fuck-all, like 99.9% of the rest of us.

Palomino (Palomino), Thursday, 18 November 2004 00:51 (10 years ago) Permalink

speak for yourself.

Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 18 November 2004 00:53 (10 years ago) Permalink

Bob doesn't really care, or so say the lyrics of his single solo hit, "the great song of indifference":

I don't mind if you go
I don't mind if you take it slow
I don't mind if you say yes or no
I don't mind at all

I don't care if you live or die
Couldn't care less if you laugh or cry
I don't mind if you crash or fly
I don't mind at all

I don't mind if you come or go
I don't mind if you say no
Couldn't care less baby let it flow
'Cause I don't care at all

Na na na, etc.

I don't care ify ou sink or swim
Lock me out or let me in
Where I'm going or where I've been
I don't mind at all

I don't mind if the government falls
Implements more futile laws
I don't care if the nation stalls
And I don't care at all

I don't care if they tear down trees
I don't feel the hotter breeze
Sink in dust in dying sees
And I don't care at all

Na na na etc.

I don't mind if culture crumbles
I don't mind if religion stumbles
I can't hear the speakers mumble
And I don't mind at all

I don't care if the Third World fries
It's hotter there I'm not surprised
Baby I can watch whole nations die
And I don't care at all

I don't mind I don't mind I don't mind I don't mind
I don't mind I don't mind
I don't mind at all

Na na na etc.

I don't mind about people's fears
Authority no longer hears
Send a social engineer
And I don't mind at all

the surface noise (slight return) (electricsound), Thursday, 18 November 2004 00:56 (10 years ago) Permalink

Has there ever been a report or study that showed how much or how little the proceeds raised from the records ("Xmas Shite" and "We Eat the World") and Live Aid actually did/did not do for the Ethiopians? I've never seen one, though I suspect all this made fuck all difference to anyone's life over there. But I really would like to know what the cold hard facts of the matter are.

dsd, Thursday, 18 November 2004 02:30 (10 years ago) Permalink

The Voltaire Medal for Even-Handedness goes to Fact Checking Cuz for his defense of a viewpoint that he doesn't agree with.

i DO try to be even-handed -- i'm a libra -- but i can't accept this award because i have no idea what you're talking about. i defended your assertion that the quality of the song isn't relevant to the cause of helping poor people in africa, because i do in fact agree with that assertion. i disagree with, and did not defend, your assertion that it's therefore morally wrong to even discuss the quality of the song and doing so makes us a bunch of dickheads who are simultaneously too smart ("over-educated") and too dumb ("facile").

one of the nice things about living in a democratic nation is that we're free to pick and choose who and what we agree with, and we even have the right to agree with certain people some of the time and disagree with them some of the time. or at least i think we still are; i haven't checked with my democratically elected leader lately.

fact checking cuz (fcc), Thursday, 18 November 2004 04:53 (10 years ago) Permalink

Is the bitter sting of tears

I loved how they just couldn't resist the close up video shot of Sting during this line.

Kim (Kim), Thursday, 18 November 2004 05:09 (10 years ago) Permalink

8 years pass...

^^Came here to post exactly that--the Sting name-dropping in the middle of this song.

your damn bass clarinet (Eazy), Friday, 21 December 2012 15:37 (2 years ago) Permalink

Holiday radio would be a lot more fun if DJs would play the 12" version.

I love it when Bowie totally Debbie Downers the whole party.

Kent Burt, Sunday, 23 December 2012 03:25 (1 year ago) Permalink


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