Defend The Indefensible: Rick Wakeman

Message Bookmarked

Bookmark Removed

Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (122 of them)

dave q to thread!!

― geeta (geeta), Thursday, 18 November 2004 02:49 (8 years ago) Permalink

Wakeman not being a vegetarian = awesome.

― Ian John50n (orion), Thursday, 18 November 2004 03:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

I wish I could post a link to an audio clip of me attempting to sing the Wakeman parts from Roundabout, which is what I would be over-excitedly doing right now if this was a real life conversation.

― Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 18 November 2004 04:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

What about the robo-surf synth break in Close to the Edge after Jon Anderson does the really long dramatic build-up (I get up/I get down etc.)? So AWESOME!

― Hurting (Hurting), Thursday, 18 November 2004 04:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

Wakeman not being a vegetarian = awesome.

Macrobiotic, dude. Macrobiotic.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Thursday, 18 November 2004 04:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

Eisbar, seems like the curry thing happened *on* the THTO tour during a long section where he had no part to play. Indeed classic.

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Thursday, 18 November 2004 07:23 (8 years ago) Permalink

Whoops, sorry, missed previous post addressing this.

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Thursday, 18 November 2004 07:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yes threads are some of my favorite things on ILM 'cause I like those guys just fine but really have no dog in this fight. Love reading the opinions of those who do, though.

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Thursday, 18 November 2004 07:41 (8 years ago) Permalink

"Send an instant korma to me/Initial it with loving care . . . "

― Rickey Wright (Rrrickey), Thursday, 18 November 2004 07:48 (8 years ago) Permalink

The weirdest line in that song is "Just remember that the goal is for us all to capture all we want". It doesn't even seem to be used in a critical or satirical sense AFAICT. Didn't it occur to anyone that this might be a little contradictory to the overall message of the song. Actually the lyrics to that song are pretty weird on the whole - all that chess imagery and "use me any time you want" stuff.

I can't fucking believe the shit that the keyboardist on the glorious Yes Album is taking. Joe v OTM - what he played was perfect for those songs, whereas Wakeman could sometimes be really intrusive and overbearing. The organs and the jam on "Good People"! The organ riff on "Starship Trooper"! Also Moraz deserves major props.

Despite Wakeman's flaws, mind you, no one who played "South Side of the Sky" and "Siberian Khatru" is anything close to indefensible. He did get some classic sounds out of the keyboard - I love his bits on "And You and I" and nick is right about the synth float on "Heart of the Sunrise". And I'm surprised Ned doesn't even like "Long Distance Runaround".

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 18 November 2004 08:44 (8 years ago) Permalink

i heard another story about wakeman torturing audiences with ridiculously high frequencies; is this true?

― jake b. (cerybut), Thursday, 18 November 2004 09:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

when i saw him it was the opposite - at one point he was almost inducing chest cavity resonance with slow-decay high-resonance filter-sweeps on 32'/sawtooth set minimoog oscillators...
god it was wonderful

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Thursday, 18 November 2004 11:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

(i always thought moraz much more towards the high-pitched squealy end of things - i haven't listened to 'relayer' for about 28 years, but the tendency is also all over his semi-mentalist 'story of i' 1st solo album)

(which nonetheless has an amazing first couple of minutes....as if Propaganda/ZTT had appeared 10 yrs earlier as mid-70's south american prog-rockers !)

― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Thursday, 18 November 2004 11:33 (8 years ago) Permalink

The organ riff on "Starship Trooper"!

That's three chords — and Kaye didn't even write them.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Thursday, 18 November 2004 15:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

Wakeman still has tea & biscuits with his keyboard tech during Alan White's drum solo on "Ritual", I think. Its become a tradition.

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Thursday, 18 November 2004 16:13 (8 years ago) Permalink

no mention of his other 'classic' of the era - no earthly connection.

this along with Wives, and King Arthur are 3 wonderfully OTT albums for when your 14>16 and haven't discovered Foetus/ON-U Sound yet

.. then to be hidden deep in the archive forever after.

he was also one of the first Rock stars to ever respond to a sad fanboy letter ..

i'm revealing wayyyy too much here .. but hey ..

and live in 1984 Braford St Georges hall - he was quality (again, i was still within the predefined 14-16 years of age)

but damn - when the dude is bad he is seriously bad .. 'rock-n-roll prophet' album .. WTF ..

― mark e (mark e), Thursday, 18 November 2004 16:41 (8 years ago) Permalink

Three chords and the truth, man!

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Thursday, 18 November 2004 18:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

the keyb solo sounds like a harpsichord on "Sibertian Khatru" is indeed fine. That song is a masterpiece all around, actually. i actually found an old, scratchy copy of "Six Wives" yesterday in a box stored for years and it's...fun...

and while Tony Kaye was sort of neutral, I like that Hammond sound he got on "Yes Album," and "Yours is No Disgrace" does utilize the I-IV-VII progression (I think it's B-flat pedal tone with B-flat/E-flat-B-flat 7 sus 4 there) well.

― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Thursday, 18 November 2004 19:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

A monkey could've played it.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Thursday, 18 November 2004 19:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

i wish there were more monkeys playing music, actually.

― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Thursday, 18 November 2004 19:17 (8 years ago) Permalink

And I'm surprised Ned doesn't even like "Long Distance Runaround".

It's sorta goofy.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 18 November 2004 19:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

it is goofy. I do like the beginning bit, though, that's kind of cool. It's funny to me, they way they try to funkify the backing tracks with that drum/bass interaction.

― eddie hurt (ddduncan), Thursday, 18 November 2004 19:32 (8 years ago) Permalink

A monkey could've played it.

A MONKEY, eh. Apparently you've never heard Kaye on 9012Live: The Solos.

― savetherobot, Thursday, 18 November 2004 19:49 (8 years ago) Permalink

Oh but I have — but of course we're making the same point. Look, I'm fine w/ people saying Kaye didn't screw things up like Wakeman maybe did or didn't, depending on your taste. But to sit there and say, "Those three chords he played on organ there are truly the bee's knees"? I mean, seriously — give me a fucking break. That's like complimenting a session drummer for managing to keep time. Yay.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Thursday, 18 November 2004 19:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

NTI, you are unnecessarily harsh on Tony Kaye.

Give it up for the white-haired wonder!

― wetmink (wetmink), Thursday, 18 November 2004 20:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

I mean, look at that shirt!

― wetmink (wetmink), Thursday, 18 November 2004 20:39 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'm w/Sundar & Eddie & all the other folks who rate The Yes Album uber alles and preferred Tony Kaye's minimal contributions because of the less-obtrusiveness factor. No question Wakeman was a better player and a major component of those twin '72 masterpieces, but he could be obnoxious at times: One of the best things about his "Close To The Edge" Hammond solo is the respite it provides after many minutes of "I Get Up I Get Down"'s near-painful sustained cathedral-organ chords.

I admit I haven't heard Rick's solo LPs, but only because I don't want to.

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Thursday, 18 November 2004 20:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

NTI, you are unnecessarily harsh on Tony Kaye.

I have nothing against Tony Kaye. I do, however, find the notion of praising his abilities to be patently ludicrous on its face. The guy stayed out of the way — that's it, folks.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Thursday, 18 November 2004 20:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I mean, seriously, that's true. Wakeman is a more skilled player and more entertaining to watch. But on the other hand, as generally agreed, to some people's tastes there's something to be said to Yes as a whole without Wakeman. I'm just sort of jokingly lionizing Tony Kaye as an anti-Wakeman.

― wetmink (wetmink), Thursday, 18 November 2004 20:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

The guy stayed out of the way — that's it, folks.

I should note, however, that Robert Fripp once gave Bill Bruford a writing credit for choosing not to interrupt an improvisation by playing. Perhaps he learned such restraint from his time spent in Yes with The Indomitable Tony Kaye!

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Thursday, 18 November 2004 21:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

Speaking of Bruford, in The Music's All That Matters he does give Wakeman the credit for knowing how to write smooth transitions between the "movements" in Yes's songs.

― wetmink (wetmink), Thursday, 18 November 2004 21:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

... and implies Jon Anderson was not good at same...

― wetmink (wetmink), Thursday, 18 November 2004 21:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

Hey! This is a Wakeman thread? What's with all the Tony Kaye love?!

Listen to 90125. The man added practically nada to the situation.

― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Thursday, 18 November 2004 21:32 (8 years ago) Permalink

Thank you. Thank you.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Thursday, 18 November 2004 23:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Listening to Close to the Edge today (after having found my cassette tape, yes cassette tape, again), it occurred to me that, perhaps, just perhaps, Rick Wakeman actually had a great sense of humor, even if he didn't realize it. I mean the harpsichord break on Siberian Khartu is effing hilarious. The prance-y electric rennaisance faire shit is a bit too much though.

― Hurting (Hurting), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 04:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

― Joe (Joe), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 21:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00000879J.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

― Joe (Joe), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 21:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

Greatest album cover ever.

― Joe (Joe), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 21:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

I fear to ask, but what does the 'plus' mean?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 21:40 (8 years ago) Permalink

he wears that gold cape in every picture from 75-78 it seems

― chaki in charge (chaki), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 21:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

Oh my.

― 57 7th (calstars), Wednesday, 29 December 2004 22:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

Well, the original album was called "Rock n Roll Prophet", and for the CD release he added on some tracks. Hence: "Rock n Roll Prophet Plus". This album, by the way, features the positively outstanding "I'm So Straight I'm a Weirdo" and "Do You Believe in Fairies?", with Wakeman himself taking lead vocals (ironically, he's better than 99% of the people he actually hired to sing lead vocals on his albums).

Back to the album cover,I particularly like the Snoopy doll hanging from the coat rack.

― Joe (Joe), Thursday, 30 December 2004 01:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

Or maybe it's the model with the lollipop and McCartney bass...

― Joe (Joe), Thursday, 30 December 2004 01:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

am i the only one who thinks that this album cover is almost momus-esque?

I fear to ask, but what does the 'plus' mean?

it's like the "32" on every bottle of rolling rock beer!

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Thursday, 30 December 2004 06:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, but "Perpetual Change" and "Yours Is No Disgrace" are both vastly superior on Yessongs
All Yours Is No Disgrace Are Belong To Yes!

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 30 December 2004 07:29 (8 years ago) Permalink

Que?

― Joe (Joe), Thursday, 30 December 2004 12:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

Isn't it Wakeman who turns up on Grumpy Old Men? He's pretty funny on that - better than J Clarkson anyway.

― Charles Dexter (Holey), Thursday, 30 December 2004 13:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

it's like the "32" on every bottle of rolling rock beer!

What kind of drunk are you? It's 33

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 30 December 2004 13:54 (8 years ago) Permalink

It's 32 PLUS 1.

― dave225 (Dave225), Thursday, 30 December 2004 14:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

Que?
Sorry. Was a lame joke on this already lame joke.

― Ken L (Ken L), Thursday, 30 December 2004 20:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 22 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Six Wives - live !

no chance of me going along, but this is just going to be insanely over the top isn't it ..

― mark e, Monday, 27 April 2009 09:57 (4 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

I've been on a big prog rock trek for a couple of months, probably started by watching that BBC Prog Rock Brittania on You Tube a couple of times.

Haven't ventured past it yet, but I liked The Six Wives of Henry VIII more than I would have thought and it is one weird ass album to have somehow sold like 15 million copies. People had some patience back in those days, I just don't see any of this kind of weird music being THAT popular.

I liked it enough that I probably am going to try out another Wakeman record.

― earlnash, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 04:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

The Sex Pistols was the reason Rick left A&M, not the other way round...

― Mark G, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 06:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

No it has to be the other way around if it's true at all. I'm sceptical that he would have had that much sway at the label, since sales were waning (though his late 70s stuff is good - often preferable to the earlier, better known albums). Wakeman's final album for A&M came out in 1979, two years after the fact. I know that Wakeman showed up in a documentary talking about this and said it was essentially a bullshit story.

― everything, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 07:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

xpost to earlnash - try Criminal Record, which is a digestible and enjoyably brief album from '77. It has a fair chunk of solo Rick mixed with Alan White, Chris Squire and Wakeman doing some fairly disciplined and enjoyable proggy bits.

― everything, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 07:41 (1 year ago) Permalink

Basically, McLaren had said that the Sex Pistols' signing had upset some of the proggers on the label (He'd read, upside down, a memo on the A&M-A&R's desk to the extent of "hey, do we all have to wear safety pins through our noses now?" and said more or less in passing that it was him wot got them sacked.

At which point lots of A&M staffers were all "yes, yes, that's exactly what happened", which got Rick extremely pissed off. Doubtless, that was not the only factor, but maybe one of them that made him see out his contract then goodnight vienna.

One further album, "Rhapsodies", then off. (his "Criminal Record" presumably well on the way by then..)

― Mark G, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 08:43 (1 year ago) Permalink

Thanks, that rings true. Wakeman was probably nearing the end at A&M anyway. "Criminal Record" did not sell too well I think - I recall stacks of copies marked down in Boots at the start of the 80s, which is where I got it from. Rhapsodies could be looked at as a stereotypical "last album for the label". It feels/sounds cut-price, has a terrible sleeve design (as did Criminal Record) and is all over the place, apparently hoping to appeal to the general public (there's everything from James Last-style orchestal disco to moogy riffs on famous classical/jazz tunes. This from a guy who has no business even considering what what "commercial" might sound like (listen to "Rock'n'Roll Prophet" to see how lamentable is his take on early-80s synthpop. Notwithstanding all that, to me there is some good stuff on these album due to his general creative quirkiness and blokey whimsicality.

― everything, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 17:03 (1 year ago) Permalink

People had some patience back in those days, I just don't see any of this kind of weird music being THAT popular.

hypothesis: prog rock fulfilled a cinematic purpose for fantasy/scifi/stoner nerds in the mid seventies, but that purpose was superseded by blockbuster sci-fi movies and the spread of D&D and then FPS videogames. Punk didn't kill prog rock, the triumph of nerdery in other pop culture areas did.

― bendy, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 20:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

Not wanting to sound negative but no.

― everything, Tuesday, 8 May 2012 22:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

5 months pass...

I'm totally digging Rock and Roll Prophet at the moment. It's like Wakeman meets the Buggles. And he sings weird duets!

http://open.spotify.com/album/1cOv3eKLgw8Tuas65QvaS6

― Naive Teen Idol, Friday, 26 October 2012 19:28 (6 months ago) Permalink

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.