Mercury Rev, Flaming Lips

As far as Mercury Rev goes, search the back catalogue if you haven't: See You On the Other Side and the "Car Wash Hair" single bear some stylistic similarities to DS. (I'm very fond of all three.) I didn't like The Soft Bulletin so I've no suggestions there.

Spiritualized's Ladies and Gentlemen We Are Floating in Space is often compared to those two albums, although I think the connections are more tenuous than they may first appear. It's a good album worth a try though...

As for the Flaming Lips, I tried and I failed. Couldn't get past the arch, mewling voice. The Soft Bulletin has "What Is The Light?" on or else I'd have sold it by now.

Oh god, maybe I'm an indie elitist, but I was faintly unimpressed by Deserters Songs. There's a couple of good songs on it, but most of it is Disneyfied over-produced rubbish. The mighty Rev will never match the sheer frenetic otherworldly insanity of BOCES. Their psychosis is their glory, take it away, and they sound almost AOR.

The Flaming Lips, OTOH... I think they actually managed to *keep* the twistedness that made them great, while smoothing out the rough edges that scared off the pop kids.

Loads of bands metamorphasise... I don't think MR or FL was a case of a band suddenly getting "good" (read: accessible) as just a long slow change. It seemed like a sudden metamorphasis because out of nowhere the (British) press discovered them and started hawking them like they were gods gift to something or other to people who were unaware of their back catalogue.

Bands just don't *go* from Meet The Beatles to Revolver. They just don't. Even if you don't *hear* the inbetween stuff, that doesn't mean it's not there. The great example for me was Blur- who appeared to leap from the baggy-shoegazer pastiche of Leisure (still my fave album, though) to the phenomenon that was Modern Life Is Rubbish. But there were something like 2 years and a lost album that was binned by their record label in between.

Anyway... I'm rambling. Will have a think more on this.

For me, 'Kid A' is also where Radiohead finally become worth caring about, although the speed at which they issued a disclaimer along the lines of "don't worry, we'll get the guitars out again for the next one" is disappointing. Maybe they're bluffing.

New Order's progression between 'Movement' and 'Power, Corruption and Lies' was pretty impressive.

As for the 'Lips and Mercury Rev. For me the 'Lips walked a very fine line between inspiration and addled pissing about until 'The Soft Bulletin'. Mainly pissing about really. Anyway TSB is a great, wierdly beautiful record. It passes one of the fundamental tests of a great album - it defines its own world from the off, and you need to do some work to get inside that world. You might not 'get' it straight away, but eventually....

'Deserter's Songs' is/was over-hyped. 'Goddess on a Highway' is stupendous though.

I've only recently realized how much I've taken Mercury Rev for granted. My opinion on what their best record is fluctuates more with them than any other band. The only gripe I've had with them has been their recent knack for being something of a boogie band in performance.

The Kinks - Somewhere around SOMETHING ELSE. You could probablly make a case for their metamorphosis anywhere in the late 60s though.

XTC - ENGLISH SETTLEMENT: electric guitar wrangling turns to pastoral bliss XTC - ORANGES AND LEMONS: pastoral bliss to a bombast with mixed results XTC - APPLE VENUS 1: who knew they had it in them? Andy Partridge was probablly the only one. brilliant change of pace, not only from themselves, but from the tide of popular music.

The Cult - ELECTRIC: Billy Duffy goes from effects rack and teddy boy look to Les Paul/Marshall Stack and biker 'do. Still a great record though.

Beatles - RUBBER SOUL: I didn't feel like bringing THESE guys up but y'know...

The Clash - LONDON CALLING: What else is there to say?

REM - OUT OF TIME: good band turns bad in a hurry.

U2 - RATTLE AND HUM: (see REM)

Stone Roses - SECOND COMING: (see U2)

Omar: yep, you're right about Outkast. I like a lot of Aquemini but I'm struck by how *earthy* it sounds compared to Stankonia (I'm struggling for a better word there). I can barely remember the funk jams towards the end of Aquemini, indeed I don't think I've got that far with the album since I first played it. "Skew It On The Bar-B" sounds incredibly undated, though.

Apple Venus Volume 1, with its lush, loving portrayal of an imaginary England, almost went *too* far in resisting the tide of the rest of pop; Skylarking strikes a perfect balance, completely resisting the tide of the 80s and their sneering metropolitan superiority, while never seeming like a true museum piece, always driving its source on, forward, further (admittedly, Partridge's "it's not as if we're Fairport Convention" line at the time becomes hilariously funny when you remember who was later the drummer on Nonsuch). But Skylarking is the masterpiece, and always will be, because it sounds ancient, but is nonetheless *alive* and leads us to a better tomorrow. By comparison, Apple Venus Vol. 1, much as I love it, is pure National Trust / English Heritage (the heritage industry marketing organisation, not the Ultramarine track) territory.

Although 'Skylarking' is superb, I prefer the Go2/Drums and Wires/Black Sea era. (You need to forgive the odd 'see how wierd we are' lapse into new-wave gauchness though, especially on Go2)

Everyone seems to agree that 'Big Express' was a clunker and I also find that 'Mummer' and 'Oranges and Lemons' are pretty sterile. Too much time in the studio, probably.

I can't agree about The Dukes. Great Fun! Some of the pastiches are hilariously accurate (The Beach Boys one in particular) and 'Psonic Sunspots' contains Mouldings best song bar one - 'The Vanishing Girl'.

Oranges And Lemons and Nonsuch are a bit rubbish, though.

I agree that SKYLARKING is probablly their masterpiece (although I'd take SETTLEMENT on a desert island). I didn't list it cause I believe it was a *major* jump up in quality after EXPRESS and MUMMER (which contained some good songs but were mostly ruined by the wild produciton and the lack of Terry Chambers), but not a total rework of the aesthetic which started on SETTLEMENT. ORANGES AND LEMONS seemed to be the "next round" for them. I also like the Dukes records. Not all of the songs, mind you. Their just fun, as someone said. 'Brainiac's Daughter' and 'Collideascope' are two of my favorite XTC tunes on any record. Plenty of fun little gems on there and they get *dangerouly* close to the sounds of the "originals". They're the records that got every shaggy-haired Brit interested in working with John Leckie!

As far as APPLE VENUS 1, I had pretty much written off XTC just like everyone else had but I got the album, listened to it once with a pessimistic attitude and promptly shelved it for a good 4 months. When I finally broke it out for a "pre-sellback" listen, I realized that I had jumped a little too quickly to my conclusions. I think its one of the best albums of the decade, actually. VOL 2 is not so great though...

Ok, that's enought XTC for one day.... cheers!

It's not a quantum leap in sound, more a leap in how they USE their own brand of sound 'n rhythm. Album of the year so far. Buy!

But I will concur with the "See You On the Other Side was the real progression" sentiment. It's the Deserter's Songs I can still enjoy listening to, bar the curiously unattractive "Young Man's Stride". Much more distinctive and FUN all round. And it kind of, erm, swings!

As for Soft Bulletin, it seemed equally as underwhelming as every other FL record I'd heard.

Both of these albums came along in the first year of uni for me, along with Super Furry Animals' Guerilla. They seemed to open things up for guitar music, but sadly, their innovations are not something that's been followed up particularly well, at least in terms of bands who make similar sounds. Polyphonic Spree - eee!
To be fair to Grandaddy, the first two albums were good, but otherwise, meh.
Architechture In Helsinki are pretty ace though - they've got the colourful maximalist thing going on, although they have their own sound. Arcade Fire likewise.
Soft Bulletin was a big step forward, but not a quantum leap. With Drodz and Ronald Jones joining, the band got musicians full of ideas and the skills to pull them off. Clouds Taste Metallic is the pinnacle of Lips phase two and one of the greatest albums ever made. It's got the bubblegum tunes, it's got the insane frazzled guitar noise, it's got the huge drums, and it's got the toybox instrumentation. When Jones left they couldn't get anyone else to make such incredible guitar sounds so they had to rethink. Hence the Car Lot Experiments onto Zaireeka and onto Soft Bulletin, which refines the experiments of Zaireeka while making the songs stronger. There is something magical about Soft Bulletin, but it didn't come out of thin air.

Living hell.

A few weeks before the theft I went to see Mercury Rev at Aberdeen Music Hall. Levon Helm from the Band was supposed to be supporting, but in a last minute change it was the Flaming Lips. Turned out the be the day before Soft Bulletin came out. I'd only heard She Don't Use Jelly. Their version of that was incredible, a total sonic meltdown. But the Soft Bulletin stuff was amazing. Drodz on keys and guitar and his celluloid self playing drums on the back screen. Wayne banging the gong. Wonderful. The Rev were disappointing by comparison. They had some stunning moments but were a bit noodly as well. The gig ended up in the NME cos the fire alarm went off halfway through. Apparently some nutter was sitting in the bogs setting fire to toilet paper. I stood out the front. If only I'd gone behind, I could have hung out with the bands! But everyone got back in again eventually and the REv rocked it to the end. And then the next day I went down to Glasgow to see the Beasties in the round. Good times, good times. :)

Revive!

As I go back thru the Lips' catalog in anticipation of getting Embryonic, I've been trying to give late-period Rev a shot again as well. Truth is, Deserter's Songs never got me. Honestly, I've never heard the "rural" or "Americana" in it -- outside of some of the instrumentation (musical saws, etc.), songs like "Opus 40" always just sounded like dream pop. The tunes, "Goddess on a Hiway" notwithstanding, always felt half-baked -- a song like "Holes" has a nice melody in the verse and an instrumental refrain...but that's it.

But upon further review, I should give credit where credit is due. First and foremost, the lyrics are interesting and deserve closer scrutiny. While I know everyone has done a Fridmann special since, the orchestration--particularly on All Is Dream--is pretty impressive. And though I still chafe a bit at the melody/instrumental refrain song structure in lieu of "proper" choruses (thus, my affection for "Goddess on a Hiway"), I have to admit that on songs like "The Dark Is Rising" it works pretty well. I also think they get unfair flack for The Secret Migration's launch into fairytale imagery -- it fits well w/ the dark Ichabod Crane vibe they're going for.

first two rev albums >>>> entire flips catalogue, and i really like quite a lot of flips

god i have tried getting into DS so many times since it first came out, and it has just never stuck.

but the soft bulletin was my freshman year in college 24/7

was listening to the new Lips and hoping it kicks the ass of Rev into doing an exciting album again. I haven't even *hated* the last few of theirs, but they've certainly been on the dull side.

I like Deserter's Songs a lot, at least through "Hudson Line". But on a disk from Uncut magazine from that time there's a gorgeous version of "Holes", from the Jools Holland show---the guitar solo will break your heart.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYe5Q-oMEME

That's a really stunning performance. Deserters Songs is still my favourite by a long way but I really rate See You On The Other Side a lot too. This decade hasn't been too great for them, All Is Dream I loved at the time but hasn't really aged too well. I can't remember much about The Secret Migration apart from Vermillion which is one of their finest songs. The last album is the best of the three it has some really stunning moments but kind of loses it's way at the end.

The Flaming Lips really pulled it back with the new album. At War With Mystics was a classic example of an album I just loved when I first got it but after a few months I realised the songs just weren't there and I only go back to a couple of songs now and then. Vein Of Stars in particular which has one of my favourite vocals Wayne has done and they're not really a band I love for the vocals.

But on a disk from Uncut magazine from that time there's a gorgeous version of "Holes", from the Jools Holland show---the guitar solo will break your heart.

You can't seriously mean that guitar solo -- I like Grasshopper's work a lot--and that's otherwise a fine performance--but that solo sounds like some kid learning the pentatonic scale.

The Flaming Lips really pulled it back with the new album. At War With Mystics was a classic example of an album I just loved when I first got it but after a few months I realised the songs just weren't there and I only go back to a couple of songs now and then. Vein Of Stars in particular which has one of my favourite vocals Wayne has done and they're not really a band I love for the vocals.

I sort of agree -- I think AWWTM works better as a piece than individually in some ways, which is a weird thing to say given that the record is a series of stylistic experiments. And yes, "Vein of Stars" is really something else.

I think with both of these bands, i fell in love with something early on that they progressively shed as they moved along. shed, or cloaked or mutated or evolved or whatever - whatever the word, over time i became less able to relate to their music.

this is less true of the flaming lips, as i very much enjoyed watching them grow as a band for most of the 90s, and only lost interest circa clouds taste metallic, when they finally leached the last traces of punk and rock aggression from their sound. on the other hand, i like embryonic a lot, so it may be that i'm coming back around...

with mercury rev my disengagement was a fairly straight line: i loved (and still love) yrself is steam, liked boces, and while i've enjoyed many songs since, i haven't really cared much for the albums that contained them. this isn't the band's fault, and i don't impugn the quality of their music - it's just a matter of their pursuing something that's less able to speak to me, personally.

live version of "holes" posted above is very moving, though not for the guitar solo

The part in "holes" that kills me is that vaguely submarine-sounding synth whoosh that comes in after the line "sink like polished stones." It's not that audible on the clip upthread, but on record.. chills down the spine every time.

ha, yeah that solo is bleak, love m rev (and that performance) tho

haha well I think it's a very evocative solo, if not technically anything special; its tone, in the song as played in that performance, is striking.

That solo isn't a patch on the late period Louis Armstrong-a-like flugelhorn(?) solo from the album version.

**B**O**C**E**S**

^^^yes