Great record, terrible drummer

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I was listening to My Bloody Valentine "Isn't Anything" earlier and god, I really love that record sometimes. What makes me hate it though is that awful drummer guy who just keeps banging everything for no reason, messing up every piece of fine guitar shredding and Bilindas sweet vocals.

You know any other great records suffering from the same syndrome? I think it's basically a late 80's/early 90's-thing.

― strom (strom), Sunday, 19 September 2004 12:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

Black Sheets of Rain.

― Mr Noodles (Mr Noodles), Sunday, 19 September 2004 12:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

lightning bolt
boredoms

― jw bush, Sunday, 19 September 2004 12:39 (8 years ago) Permalink

What makes me hate it though is that awful drummer guy who just keeps banging everything for no reason, messing up every piece of fine guitar shredding and Bilindas sweet vocals.

I think you were mistaking Loveless for a Lita Ford record.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 19 September 2004 13:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

Colm's drumming makes that album, though. If you couldn't hear it it would not be as interesting. "Soon" is the highlight!

― bbc6personality, Sunday, 19 September 2004 13:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

but the thing is, colm's drumming is only sort of on loveless. it's his drum sounds, but its all triggered, so the guy really didnt need a lick of rhythm to make loveless sound the way it did. that said, i think its fine on isnt anything and all the eps... i think loveless mightve sounded a bit better if it hadnt been triggered... i love it now, but yknow. maybe an alternate mix will come out.

― peter smith (plsmith), Sunday, 19 September 2004 14:03 (8 years ago) Permalink

the obvious answer is WHITE STRIPES 'elephant'

― toe-foo (toe-foo), Sunday, 19 September 2004 14:13 (8 years ago) Permalink

yeah - good call.

― peter smith (plsmith), Sunday, 19 September 2004 14:15 (8 years ago) Permalink

IS THIS IT

― Mr. Snrub, Sunday, 19 September 2004 14:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

Most music uses drum machines for a reason, dudes.

― sexyDancer, Sunday, 19 September 2004 14:33 (8 years ago) Permalink

Dissection - Storm Of The Light's Bane (fantastic in every respect, except for awfully generic, unimaginative drumming)

― Siegbran (eofor), Sunday, 19 September 2004 14:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

like a substandard drummer? or for aesthetic reasons? either way, id like to hear an un-triggered mix...

― peter smith (plsmith), Sunday, 19 September 2004 15:13 (8 years ago) Permalink

Taking The Rough With The Smooch - Huggy Bear

not that the rest of the band could play any better either.

― digtbk, Sunday, 19 September 2004 17:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

i always thought about prolapse, if this band had a drummer that did anything halfway interesting, they'd probably be my favorite band of all time. he doesn't suck but he just doesn't contribute a thing

― mig (mig), Sunday, 19 September 2004 17:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

Pavement - Slanted And Enchanted. Though, i'm not sure if it's just the drum production or the actual drum work. i haven't listened to it for a long time.

― Hari Ashurst (Toaster), Sunday, 19 September 2004 17:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

digtbk - that's like complaining your orange juice doesn't have enough guacamole in it.

HUGGY BEAR RULED

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Sunday, 19 September 2004 18:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

Either Led Zeppelin 4 or Who's Next -- two albums that were amazing despite the substandard, damn-near-embarrassing drumming.

― johnnyg, Sunday, 19 September 2004 18:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

ENTIRE AEROSMITH DISCO

― brock (brock), Sunday, 19 September 2004 19:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

I can see dissing Bonzo or Keith Moon but Joey Kramer?!? What a tough crowd.

― lovebug starski (lovebug starski), Sunday, 19 September 2004 19:54 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, White Stripes to thread. Also BRMC's first album.

― Crackity (Crackity Jones), Sunday, 19 September 2004 20:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

haha, 2 of the 3 things that immediately came to mind were 'Is This It?' and 'Slanted and Enchanted.' Glad to see I'm not the only one. I mean, I get the whole flat/anhedonic indie thing, but what works with singing doesn't work with drumming. For me, anyway.

The third one is "Innervisions" -- Stevie's a good drummer, but that record really could have used a great one. The drums don't carry the grooves, they just ride them.

― spittle (spittle), Sunday, 19 September 2004 20:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

ENTIRE AEROSMITH DISCO

??? i'm assuming this is a joke...aerosmith has great rhythm especially in the 70s...shit if all Kramer did was drum that break beat on Walk This Way he'd deserve hall of fame status

― M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Sunday, 19 September 2004 20:32 (8 years ago) Permalink

No, I think Gary Young is great. And a lot more precise than Steve West too. Well, I love them both.

When it comes to the Loveless-drums, as peter mentioned, you just can't compare it to the earlier stuff. On Loveless the drums are just basic and heavy, as to before when they were just all over the place and didn't fit with the rest of the band at all. Plus the quite shabby production.

― strom (strom), Sunday, 19 September 2004 20:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

Radiohead to thread.

― mzui, Sunday, 19 September 2004 20:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

i think pavement's drumming was grebt. not technically so, perhaps, but fitting the songs just right (hi ringo).

― mookieproof (mookieproof), Sunday, 19 September 2004 21:23 (8 years ago) Permalink

BROADCAST Work and Non Work
I think that is an amazing record, but that drummer is pretty crap.

― Magic City (ano ano), Sunday, 19 September 2004 21:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'm not bothered by anything technical in Pavement's drumming, per se -- some of my favorite drummers are non-technical. I just think it has kind of a flattening effect on the music. Which is arguably fitting, granted, but for me has always been a factor in preventing my admiration for Pavement from turning into full-blown enjoyment.

― spittle (spittle), Sunday, 19 September 2004 22:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, from a drummer's perspective, I take Pavement's drumming as more of a stylized sloppiness than true ineptitude, and it works. Also, Brian Chippendale of Lightning Bolt has to be one of my favorite drummers; just imagine them without him, and what is it? If any band really suffers from this malady it's Built to Spill.

― Rubberband Man (Rubberband Man), Monday, 20 September 2004 11:48 (8 years ago) Permalink

I love Stevie Wonder's drumming. And the guy from Radiohead.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 20 September 2004 12:29 (8 years ago) Permalink

Couldn't disagree more. At least until Loveless, when he apparently felt like being mistaken for a machine, I thought Colm was a completely satisfactory drummer whose playing split the difference between Keith Moon and Mo Tucker. Those insane time signatures on "Feed Me With Your Kiss" or "Nothing Much To Lose" would be unthinkable otherwise.

Either Led Zeppelin 4 or Who's Next -- two albums that were amazing despite the substandard, damn-near-embarrassing drumming.

Anyone who considers "When The Levee Breaks" and "Won't Get Fooled Again" substandard simply can't be taken seriously. (Unless he's a jazz snob.)

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 20 September 2004 12:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

**The third one is "Innervisions" -- Stevie's a good drummer, but that record really could have used a great one. **

Definitely.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Monday, 20 September 2004 12:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

i can't think of a single record i've ever heard that was spoiled by the drumming (other than certain records that used horrible sequenced drumming, yes i'm looking at you springhill fair). i don't mind weird or out of time drumming. i'm a black tambourine fan for christ's sake.

― the surface noise (slight return) (electricsound), Monday, 20 September 2004 12:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

Stevie's a great drummer and like isn't enough of the instrumentation being funky already?

― Andrew Blood Thames (Andrew Thames), Monday, 20 September 2004 12:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

The beat on Superstition is heavy.

― Jordan (Jordan), Monday, 20 September 2004 13:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

third one on "Innervisions" = "Living For the City" btw

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Monday, 20 September 2004 13:17 (8 years ago) Permalink

I've always been bothered by the all-over drumming on Jimi Hendrix albums, especially "Crosstown Traffic."

Also the Turtles, Turtle Soup (if I'm remembering the title correctly; their last studio album): John Seiter was no John Barbata ...

― Joseph McCombs (Joseph McCombs), Monday, 20 September 2004 13:42 (8 years ago) Permalink

See, I actually don't like Buddy Miles' drumming, so it's hard for me to get into Band of Gypsys.

― Dominique (dleone), Monday, 20 September 2004 13:43 (8 years ago) Permalink

the kingsmen's "louie, louie" owns this thread

― amateur!!st, Monday, 20 September 2004 15:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

Either Led Zeppelin 4 or Who's Next -- two albums that were amazing despite the substandard, damn-near-embarrassing drumming.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE JOKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

― Mr. Snrub, Monday, 20 September 2004 15:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

my bloody valentine does have kind of pedestrian rhythm tracks, but i don't think that's from "bad" drumming, it's not not where k. shields's head was at

― amateur!!st, Monday, 20 September 2004 15:15 (8 years ago) Permalink

WTF dude the robo-drumming damn near makes Is This It.

On another note, I have to think really hard when someone asks me to recall a specific beat from any given Velvet Underground song. (Which is, like, five times a day.)

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Monday, 20 September 2004 16:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

"Nate I need a transcript of the break from 'Sister Ray' on my desk by noon"

"But I'm in the middle of notating the solo from 'Down by the River', gimme a minute"

― alfalfa romeo (natepatrin), Monday, 20 September 2004 16:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

yeah I wouldn't say MBV's drumming is terrible. just adequate. functional.

― oops (Oops), Monday, 20 September 2004 16:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

wow. thread's gone this far without anyone taking the usual shots at ringo?

― andrew m. (andrewmorgan), Monday, 20 September 2004 16:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

Oasis has made a couple of great records (by this I mean "singles") despite completely worthless drumming.

― Kris (aqueduct), Monday, 20 September 2004 16:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

I like Mo Tucker's drumming!

― n/a (Nick A.), Monday, 20 September 2004 16:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

'new day rising'

― jake b. (cerybut), Monday, 20 September 2004 18:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

This thread mystifies me 100% -- I love all the stuff being discussed, drums and all!

― Taxi Dancing in the Soft Prison (Ben Boyer), Monday, 20 September 2004 18:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

Colm from MBV is an AWESOME live drummer. Listen to the "You Made Me Realise" and "Feed Me With Your Kiss" EPs. The drumming on "Emptiness Inside" is AMAZING. The "drumming" on 'Loveless' was entirely programmed from samples of Colm's drumming. The drumming at MBV concerts was breathtaking!!!!

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 20 September 2004 18:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

I mean, technically he was the best 'musician' in the band (according to them).

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Monday, 20 September 2004 18:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 92 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

Dirty Projectors ffs

― Evan, Thursday, 11 October 2012 02:24 (7 months ago) Permalink

imagine a drummer on par with those vicious, quasi virtuosic riffs by reis. a wet dream prob. i love the jehu but i've always felt the drumming was their weakest link (well, that and the fact froberg was a pretty sloppy gtr player but anyway)

― cock chirea, Thursday, 11 October 2012 02:30 (7 months ago) Permalink

I always thought the drums were fine, some cool parts (guy wasn't a BAD drummer, just not particularly special imo). Love Froberg's guitar playing, sloppy or no. Kept them from being too prog or virtuosic, which I think suited the feel of the music extremely well. Some of the rawness makes the band more vital, to me.

― grandavis, Thursday, 11 October 2012 02:33 (7 months ago) Permalink

Dirty Projectors ffs

― Evan, Wednesday, October 10, 2012 10:24 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

if you mean on the current record, yeah I think it could be a little better, although I like the record a lot and maybe it just didn't need cool drums

― has important things to say about gangnam style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 11 October 2012 02:38 (7 months ago) Permalink

Actually I didn't mean the new one, I haven't heard it. I'm more familiar with Bitte Orca but I didn't think the new one would be much different in that respect.

― Evan, Thursday, 11 October 2012 02:48 (7 months ago) Permalink

There's no such thing as a great record with a terrible drummer

― Mary Ty$ Band (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 11 October 2012 02:49 (7 months ago) Permalink

i like the drummer on bitte orca a lot

― has important things to say about gangnam style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 11 October 2012 03:11 (7 months ago) Permalink

so bite me, dorka

― has important things to say about gangnam style (Hurting 2), Thursday, 11 October 2012 03:11 (7 months ago) Permalink

This is amazing:

besides, drumming has changed over the years. it's become a bit more minimal. as much as i love keith moon or bonham, would they really sound right backing sufjan stevens, animal collective or the
microphones?

The microphones, truly the Led Zepplin of their day

― Mary Ty$ Band (Whiney G. Weingarten), Thursday, 11 October 2012 05:14 (7 months ago) Permalink

hahaha how did i miss that post?? Keith Moon's Microphones would have been a barnstormer of a team-up, I would buy that.

― Doctor Casino, Thursday, 11 October 2012 05:56 (7 months ago) Permalink

Is it him or is it the shitty drum SOUND on albums after 92?

Well, Sister sounds like shit, drum-wise, but again he's all over a lot of those songs.

They just have less rock-out moments after Dirty, I'd say. And even in their wilder moments he's strangely muted.

― Master of Treacle, Thursday, 11 October 2012 22:43 (7 months ago) Permalink

When SY got relatively 'less' weird, they kept the volume and distortion. When they got rid of both, then what's the point?

― Master of Treacle, Thursday, 11 October 2012 22:45 (7 months ago) Permalink

Usually it's not an incompetent drummer that'll ruin a possibly great record but a drab one, or poor mic'ing. I've never given The Travelling Wilburys a chance b/c I just can't deal with having a hot unchanging snare -> DA-88 on every offbeat in my ear for half-an-hour

― flamboyant goon tie included, Thursday, 11 October 2012 22:48 (7 months ago) Permalink

One drummer who would have gone well with Drive Like Jehu would be Orestes Morfin of Bitch Magnet, monster drummer.

― Master of Treacle, Thursday, 11 October 2012 22:50 (7 months ago) Permalink

Privately I've held that drummers with so-called "bad" time, though possibly insufferable in a live setting, are golden on a recording, speeding shit up and down or whatever like Palmolive, man I love that

― flamboyant goon tie included, Thursday, 11 October 2012 22:55 (7 months ago) Permalink

XP - Orestes name was the first I thought of reading the Jehu posts too.

― Pat Ast vs Jean Arp (MaresNest), Friday, 12 October 2012 11:06 (7 months ago) Permalink

Is Steve West (Pavement) considered a poor drummer? I've never had a prob with him, anyone? (I love Gary Young's playing on the early records, but is he technically good? No clue here)

― Iago Galdston, Friday, 12 October 2012 23:28 (7 months ago) Permalink

Whiney's right, there's no such thing as a great record with a terrible drummer.

― dow, Friday, 12 October 2012 23:53 (7 months ago) Permalink

In my opinion, Gary Young was a phenomenal drummer with decades of experience.

Steve West, in comparison, was a far lesser talent, with an inability to keep proper time or vary from that "shuffle" he always resorted to.

Again, this is merely my opinion. I loved these guys, and truly enjoyed that the always gave mad props to the Garden State.

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Friday, 12 October 2012 23:55 (7 months ago) Permalink

uhhh as someone pretty new to this forum was everybody just devoted to incoherent contrarian stances back then??

― no love spud webb (fadanuf4erybody), Saturday, 13 October 2012 03:07 (7 months ago) Permalink

pretty much yeah. i'm kind of glad the board is more argumentative than it used to be because people really get away with saying some bullshit back then.

― some dude, Saturday, 13 October 2012 03:15 (7 months ago) Permalink

Chris Franz is sort of the weakest link on every Talking Heads record, or at least the least distinctive player, but he suits the group just fine and certainly doesn't get in the way of their greatness.

― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 13 October 2012 03:21 (7 months ago) Permalink

I just figured assumed everyone in this thread was joking xp.

― Spottie_Ottie_Dope, Saturday, 13 October 2012 03:57 (7 months ago) Permalink

I feel that Chris Franz provides the worst moment on Stop Making Sense ("Genius of Love"), but yet somehow redeems himself as "Yella"...

Just my two cents...

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Saturday, 13 October 2012 04:00 (7 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

i always thought the drive like jehu records could've been even greater with a more pummeling drummer. a guy such as mac mcneilly or zach barocas would've made wonders for their sound, drums on most jehu songs are a bit too pedestrian and mechanical for my liking.
― cock chirea, Wednesday, October 10, 2012 7:18 PM (1 month ago)

Ehh........... you guys are mad.

This is shitty youtube quality but I cannot disagree more:

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 15 November 2012 17:55 (6 months ago) Permalink

Can't believe people are saying Anton Fier is a bad drummer

― Master of Treacle, Thursday, 15 November 2012 19:01 (6 months ago) Permalink

maybe they meant Anton Fig

― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Thursday, 15 November 2012 19:06 (6 months ago) Permalink

― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Thursday, 15 November 2012 19:07 (6 months ago) Permalink

would be harsh on either

― Master of Treacle, Thursday, 15 November 2012 19:08 (6 months ago) Permalink

uhhh as someone pretty new to this forum was everybody just devoted to incoherent contrarian stances back then??

― no love spud webb (fadanuf4erybody), Friday, October 12, 2012 10:07 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

pretty much yeah. i'm kind of glad the board is more argumentative than it used to be because people really get away with saying some bullshit back then.

― some dude, Friday, October 12, 2012 10:15 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this thread is unreal bad at the beginning, but almost every classic rock thread has a bunch of terrible challops from like 2001

― ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 15 November 2012 19:42 (6 months ago) Permalink

Jefferson Airplane - Crown of Creation, but I think I've flogged that horse on here before.

― Hard Normal Showaddywaddy (Mr Andy M), Thursday, 15 November 2012 20:10 (6 months ago) Permalink

And it's not really a universally acknowledged classic record anyway.

― Hard Normal Showaddywaddy (Mr Andy M), Thursday, 15 November 2012 20:11 (6 months ago) Permalink

Also slightly tempted to challop the fuck out of the thread by saying Zen Arcade.

― Hard Normal Showaddywaddy (Mr Andy M), Thursday, 15 November 2012 20:17 (6 months ago) Permalink

grant's no monster, though i feel his playing is kinda great in a way

― ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 15 November 2012 20:28 (6 months ago) Permalink

It's very one note. You know exactly what's coming next

That can be great, but..

― Master of Treacle, Thursday, 15 November 2012 20:29 (6 months ago) Permalink

I know (from other discussions) that I'm the minority here, but I still think Robert Gotobed's motorik drumming is the weakest part of 70s Wire.

― in the Land of the Yik Yak (Sanpaku), Thursday, 15 November 2012 20:30 (6 months ago) Permalink

Also, shall we get the obligatory Helen Wiggin (The Shaggs) mention out of the way?

― in the Land of the Yik Yak (Sanpaku), Thursday, 15 November 2012 20:33 (6 months ago) Permalink

don't know if terrible but Ralph Molina

― nostormo, Wednesday, October 10, 2012 6:43 PM (1 month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is true. He's not good by any definition.

― One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Thursday, 15 November 2012 20:35 (6 months ago) Permalink

There are some amazing botched fills on the new crazy horse record

Molina is by far the best answer to this thread

― ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 15 November 2012 20:37 (6 months ago) Permalink

xposts Phew that was less of a flaming-torch-carrying mob style reaction that I expected.
'Terrible drummer' would def be an overstatement but I find that the drum beats on songs like What's Going On and Turn On The News have a slightly clip-clop feel to them which mars the tunes a bit for me. It could well be down to how the drums are recorded as much as to the actual patterns Grant plays.
OTOH you could never say the drumming on Reoccuring Dreams is terrible.

― Hard Normal Showaddywaddy (Mr Andy M), Thursday, 15 November 2012 20:41 (6 months ago) Permalink

Hart's Keith Moon-like aversion to hi-hats was a negative IMO

― Master of Treacle, Thursday, 15 November 2012 20:43 (6 months ago) Permalink

Love Ralph Molina, but haven't heard the new one yet. Can't think of a single song he's on that would be improved with a different drummer (and when other drummers play with Neil, they can't cut it on the Ralph/Crazy Horse songs).

― 5-Hour Enmity (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 15 November 2012 21:13 (6 months ago) Permalink

I love Hart's drumming, but that might be cos I came to Husker Du as a hardcore band, and Hart's basically a hardcore drummer a lot of the time. That might be what you're hearing as clipclop....

― m0stlyClean, Thursday, 15 November 2012 21:16 (6 months ago) Permalink

any mogwai record

― Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 15 November 2012 21:30 (6 months ago) Permalink

― 5-Hour Enmity (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, November 15, 2012 3:13 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I held this view, and kinda still do, but the 1989 Paramount Theater bootleg w/Neil Young & the Restless kinda made me doubt it

― ums (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, 15 November 2012 21:30 (6 months ago) Permalink

any mogwai record

THIS

― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Thursday, 15 November 2012 21:32 (6 months ago) Permalink

the first couple Paradise Lost records

― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Thursday, 15 November 2012 21:33 (6 months ago) Permalink

I held this view, and kinda still do, but the 1989 Paramount Theater bootleg w/Neil Young & the Restless kinda made me doubt it

Ha, that's exactly what I had in mind when I wrote that! I love that show, but Chad Cromwell on "Down By The River" really doesn't do it for me.

― 5-Hour Enmity (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 15 November 2012 21:46 (6 months ago) Permalink

Crooked Rain->Wowee Zowee (the tracks that Malkmus isn't drumming on at least).

― Jersey Al (Albert R. Broccoli), Thursday, 15 November 2012 22:10 (6 months ago) Permalink

steve west is a incredibly boring drummer

― Master of Treacle, Thursday, 15 November 2012 22:17 (6 months ago) Permalink

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