I just bought "Fresh" by Sly & the Family Stone and . . .

I'd get Greatest Hits, let that sink in for a while, then get Riot.

i'm not much for greatest hits packages at all. i find even if i dig them, i just don't really feel the need to sit through them again ever.

i'll guess i'll hunt for Stand later. . . i don't know.

theres a riot is the magnum opus i guess. good example of an album illustrating its themes uniformly in lyrics, tone, production, vocals. really a good album.

Life is. Small Talk is.

i'm not much for greatest hits packages at all.

It's necessary in the case of Sly, though, because you need "Thank You", and unless you want to track down the 45, yr never going to have that song.

The reason it may not have grabbed you like you thought it should is because yr probably familiar with the hit singles, and by the time this LP came out, that well had pretty much dried up and doesn't really sound like the hits. I think it, and the follow-up Small Talk, which is similar, are great albums, but they aren't entirely musically uptempo, which may have been what you were looking for. I'd suggest giving it another listen, myself, but I wouldn't force yourself to fall in love with it.

greatest hits is top 10 greatest hits albums ever imho

Well, maybe a classic, but it's such a drop from everything that came before, it certainly feels like a failure. (Until you listen to the later stuff.)

Riot: 5 stars
Fresh: 4 and a half

I don't think it would effect his reputation in the slightest. Look at all the "Buy the best of" comments in the thread. Sly's rep is totally made from his hit singles, and Riot only contains "Family Affair", all the others came before it. As much as I love the album, the general population isn't basing their love of him on that record.

(FWIW, I'd say similar things aboot the Stones and Exile on Main Street.)

I like "Back on the Right Track" a lot.

please. of course it would. riot is the one critics write weighty essays about, and the one that shows up highest in lists of greatest records. when it comes to "reputations," that stuff matters just as much if not more than sales.

And as I said, I don't think that matters to the general population. I hear "Hot Fun in the Summertime" and "Thank You" on the radio far more than I hear "Family Affair". If greatest albums list meant shit to most people, Forever Again and The Velvet Undergound and Nico would be anchoring classic rock weekends the world over, or at least played on oldies stations with some regularity.

yet somehow, las if by magic, ou reed is a far more legendary figure in rock n' roll than, say, boston

reputation isn't about radio play or "most people"

How would we think of his (their) career if you take Riot out of the picture?

I don't think it would effect his reputation in the slightest. Look at all the "Buy the best of" comments in the thread. Sly's rep is totally made from his hit singles, and Riot only contains "Family Affair", all the others came before it. As much as I love the album, the general population isn't basing their love of him on that record.

I totally agree. I was more trying to counter the people who said Fresh was not a drop from previous records.

Cool description. I actually listen to Fresh more than Stand

None of which is to say I don't like it. In fact one of my favorites on the elpee.

And they were an inspiration for Miles Davis's On the Corner, if I'm correct...

this sounds exactly like my copy which, i guess, is the UK pressing. i can't imagine it sounding any more stripped down, etc.

i can't take 'dance to the music' out of my CD player... this album is so great! i don't care about how 'cynical' it was in concept and education, 'dance to the medley' is so exhilarating. the absolute to Fresh, but to be honest, they're my two favourite Sly LPs (have 'stand' on LP, but 'sex machine' bores me silly, and i *hate 'stoned cowboy' so much that it ruins Riot for me if i don't skip in time)

It's sad that he's just an old nut now. I don't understand the underwhelming response of many people to this record. It's not perfect, but most of it's great, starting from the first track; weak, quavering guitar that's almost confusing until you find how it ties with the rest— the crisp horns, the organ, all with his impeccably timed singing, and yes, procrati

natin'…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mld7eSaydI

Some people swear by it, but apart from "Que Sera Sera" I can't feel any affection or awe for Fresh at all.

Fromwhat I've heard the cover of Que Sera Sera was a riposte to a rumour that Sly had been having an affair with Doris Day. Assume the allegations were unfounded but it makes a good backstory.
Much like Tim Buckley working as Sly's chauffeur in the downtime between Starsailor & Greetings From L.A.
Or that Blue Afternoon by Buckley was largely written as material to offer to Marlene Deitrich, back when Burt bacharach was her musical director.

I don't understand the underwhelming response of many people to this record.

its generally accepted as the 2nd best 70s sly album after riot isnt it?

"Que Sera Sera" gives me chills!

― mcd (mcd), Wednesday, 14 December 2005 17:20 (5 years ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

this is my favourite sly album, i think. as mentioned above, i grew up on the UK CD, and I still prefer those versions - more ghostly, more stripped back.

Nobody updated the thread when the remasters appeared.
So, you can now get all the catalogue up to Small talk remastered & expanded. Think it's pretty well done, I got the box when it appeared.
Hadn't heard Small talk before & it was a lot better than I thought. Decent lp, which might have sounded better still if not relative to the preceding set of lps. Has violin all over it which is a new texture.

I can't remember which version of Fresh is on it.

You can now officially get the woodstock live set too. Think its currently the sole official live material released though.

There is live material circulating on the fileshare scene too. Think there are 5 or 6 sets dating back to '68 around. possibly more

There are 2 volumes of live video circulating on the filesharing/bootleg scene. I know I got it from tapecity, not sure where it would be now.

so I knew there was that weird "alternate mix" version of "Fresh" floating around. Did not know that there were demo/alternate mix versions from the "Back on the Right Track" sessions out there as well, which I inadvertently d/l'd today. Some interesting outtakes

link plz?

2nded.

i've said this multiple times on ilx, but the alt mixes of fresh (which were released on the official euro cd release) are the greatest.

'In Time' is the fucking greatest!

when you realize that riot is the greatest record ever but that there should be more of it, thats when you buy fresh

riot's peaks are higher, fresh's more consistent as a whole album.

I'm referring to "Back on the Right Track," btw. Already have the alternate version of "Fresh," which is easy to find if you know how to google.

alt version of Back on the Right Track

there appears to have been a french reissue that contained even more demos than the two extra tracks tacked on here, but I haven't seen it. fwiw I don't think these alt mixes/versions are better (in at least one case the vocal is inarguably worse) but they are interesting

Some people swear by it, but apart from "Que Sera Sera" I can't feel any affection or awe for Fresh at all.
feel the opposite way. i love all of this record, except que sera sera.

it's pretty much a throwaway. the vocal is kinda funny.

thanks for the link shakey!

but i really don't think que sera is throwaway! i find it really moving!

I still wanna know if the "que sera sera" cover sparked the Sly/Doris Day romance rumour, or if it was an ironic comment on it

weird rumor, wouldn't doris day have been over 50 at the time?

ok, important blog post:
Sly Stone, Doris Day, and the breakup with Larry Graham (repost)
http://aaronjjohnson.com/blog/2011/05/12/sly-stone-doris-day-and-the-breakup-with-larry-graham-repost/

according to the Sly "Off the Record" book (the greatest rock bio ever btw) it was an ironic comment on it, and the only reason there was a rumor at all was because of the Terry Melcher connection

ha xp

Damn, I've really gotta read "Off The Record" someday - I know you've made that "best bio ever" claim before on another Sly thread

yeah me too. looks like it's pretty cheap used on amazon...

Thanks Shakey!

"For the Record" is great - dunno about "best rock bio ever" (as a technical matter, it's actually an oral history, predictably with zero involvement from Sly himself) but it's a brisk and devastating read. Sure as shit beats the recent, Sly-approved tome "I Want to Take You Higher" by Jeff Kaliss.

I still rate Riot the highest, yet I've probably played and enjoyed Fresh more over the years. Around 2005 I picked up the new box set of just about all the reissued albums for just $35. Awesome.

I guess it was 2007. And yeah it's annoyingly missing "Hot Fun in the Summertime," "Everybody is a Star," and "Thank You (Falettinme Be Mice Elf Agin)" but hey, it was 7 albums for $35.

grr, those ommissions make me so furious! Such a stupid, pointless flaw, especially when they bothered to include redundant mono-edited mixes of other singles. That's why people hate record companies. It's like the doctor says "Congratulations, you have a beautiful healthy baby girl...of course, we accidentally severed her baby toe through sheer stupid negligence, but other than that she's 97% healthy"

...but yeah, $35 is a great bargain.

Sure as shit beats the recent, Sly-approved tome "I Want to Take You Higher" by Jeff Kaliss.

lol kinda don't want to read anything that's Sly-approved tbh

the whole record sounds so modern

jordan so otm, i can't even really think about this as a 1973 record even though the sound says somehow i should

brian eno also otm

http://beatpatrol.wordpress.com/2010/02/10/brian-eno-the-studio-as-compositional-tool-1983/

Then, from the time of Sly and the Family Stone’s Fresh album, there’s a flip over, where the rhythm instruments, particularly the bass drum and bass, suddenly become the important instruments in the mix. A timbral change also takes place. The bass becomes a very defined instrument; by the use of amplitude control filters, the bass actually begins to take on a very vocal attack. The bass drum gains a more physical sound, and also has a click to it; generally you’ll find that bass drums are equalized very heavily, something like 1000-1500 cycles, to give a real sharp click. It becomes the loudest instrument in disco — watch the vu meter while a disco track is playing, and you’ll see the needle peak each time the bass drum hits.

The hi-hats on "In-Time" blow me away (both playing-wise and recording/EQ-wise). The 16ths are so light and subtle and then the barks just scream (er, bark) out of the mix.
― Jordan (Jordan), Wednesday, December 14, 2005 2:02 PM (8 years ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

yeah these type of drums are basically my favorite thing

Ha, I just randomly heard a song from this record the other day on the radio and totally though it was new song.

Thanks for that essay j

Goddamnit, if you don't think this album is classic YOU'RE FUCKING WRONG

It's the personal, sort of optimistic twin to Riot IMO. It's an album I want to make the whole world listen to and then I want them to fill out questionnaires about it and if I think you don't get its greatness, you'll listen again and again. Because its beautiful and sad and happy and funky and weird and that goddamn BASS and those fucking DRUMS man.

Their best album.

Eno otm about the centrality of the rhythm. Another Green World's "Over Fire Island" sounds like a product of this album.

My favourite Sly. Especially (as I've doubtless said already in this thread) the later mix that Sony accidentally pressed on CD in 91.

You are all right. And we need a deluxe 2cd version with both mixes and whatever else they can find. I'd pay for a third disc of just isolated drum and bass tracks.

I'd be happy if someone just pressed that alt mix on vinyl