POV - Morton Feldman Recordings

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apologies for the bad html in the other thread, which I humbly beg an administrator to delete. once again, with links instead of pictures

Pieces For More Than Two Hands, Le Bureau Des Pianistes
Three Voices For Joan LaBarbara
For Bunita Marcus, Hildegard Kleeb
(runner up: All Piano, John Tilbury)
For Samuel Beckett - San Francisco Contemporary Music Players
Ecstasy of the Moment - Barton Workshop

can't help mentioning:
Morton Feldman - Editions RZ
Patterns in a Chromatic Field - De Saram / Schroeder
Rothko Chapel / Why Patterns? - on New Albion
Piano and Orchestra - Hans Zender

― milton parker (Jon L), Monday, 26 July 2004 08:44 (8 years ago) Permalink

'For philip guston'
'crippled symmetry'
'words and music'
'for bunita marcus' (hildegard kleeb, but tied with the last two discs of 'all piano')
'three voices'

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 26 July 2004 10:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

This thread makes me wish there were more than 24 hours in a day. Morton's music from '77 onwards is some of my fave music ever, no question.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 26 July 2004 10:13 (8 years ago) Permalink

Morton's music from '77 onwards is some of my fave music ever

Ditto.

"All Piano," John Tilbury
"For Philip Guston," The California Ear Unit
"Piano and String Quartet", Aki Takahashi and Kronos Quartet
"For Samuel Beckett," Ensemble Modern conducted by Arturo Tamayo
"String Quartet II," Ives Ensemble

― Chris Dahlen (Chris Dahlen), Monday, 26 July 2004 11:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

"The Viola in My Life" Feldman conducting

― Beta (abeta), Monday, 26 July 2004 14:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

feldman's string quartet number 2 (usually 5-7 hours in length) is being performed at the edinburgh festival this year. i suppose i can;t miss this but i'm apprehensive.

http://www.eif.co.uk/

can't seem to link to the exact page....

what say you Julio?

― jed_ (jed), Sunday, 8 August 2004 21:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

listing is for the 1st of september under the heading "auryn quartet" the company who are performing it. horrible and confusing website wtf?!

― jed_ (jed), Sunday, 8 August 2004 21:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

Don't know enuf to pick between recordings intead of pieces.

Projection 2
The Viola In My Life
Piano And String Quartet
Why Patterns?
Five Pianos

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Sunday, 8 August 2004 23:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

I don't know enough of his stuff but I'd like to put in a word for Neither: An Opera.

"For Samuel Beckett," Ensemble Modern conducted by Arturo Tamayo

I was just listening to this tonight.

― sundar subramanian (sundar), Monday, 9 August 2004 01:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

Here's the link (should work):

http://www.eif.co.uk/2004/details.asp?ref=4552

This is terrific, I would love to go (I saw the 4-5 hr performance of 'for philip guston' earlier this year and its def in the top 3 concerts I've been to this year) and I might do, it depends.

Why the apprehension jed? Performances of feldman's work do not come along often.

(to add to what sterling sez, the same applies to me: I picked pieces, don't know enuff to distinguish between performances)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 9 August 2004 10:57 (8 years ago) Permalink

(btw, Feldman isn't a minimalist to me)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 9 August 2004 10:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

i'm just apprehensive because of the extreme length but, of course, i have to go to this. I WANT TO as well. Feldman only really makes sense in performance anyway, don't you think?

― jed_ (jed), Monday, 9 August 2004 20:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

Feldman only really makes sense in performance anyway, don't you think?

Why? "For Philip Guston" rulez!!!!!!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 08:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yeah I like recordings well enough but it doesn't beat having sitting through it and listening to the constant combinations and inventiveness with the sounds over that lenght of time. CDs have that break so I can never finish it.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 09:42 (8 years ago) Permalink

CDs have that break so I can never finish it.

You need String Quartet no.2 on DVD from Mode. 6hrs, uninterrupted. To my shame I've yet to sit through the lot.

― Michael Jones (MichaelJ), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 09:44 (8 years ago) Permalink

(jed- make sure you get some rest before the performance btw, this is prob why I won't go I'm not sure I'll be able to sit through the whole thing after the train journey)

x-post: haha well I got the recording from hat-art, then I found out abt the mode recording.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 09:49 (8 years ago) Permalink

I just bought the last Flaming Lips album and I've had more problems staying awake through that

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 10 August 2004 09:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

c'mon you guys

anyway

― milton parker (Jon L), Thursday, 18 August 2005 05:32 (7 years ago) Permalink

(thx)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 18 August 2005 19:49 (7 years ago) Permalink

thanks Milton. i've never heard that piece. am i right in saying that there's nothing in it that couldn't be played on one piano? so is it just 4 pianos for amplification? and if it is how does that fit in with with his assertion that his pieces should be played as quietly as possible?

here's something fun. Feldman talking about his relationship with his audience.

― jed_ (jed), Saturday, 20 August 2005 23:56 (7 years ago) Permalink

bad link - try here

http://s11.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1AN9JD8G3MAYW095FYX3ECIPJ6

― jed_ (jed), Saturday, 20 August 2005 23:57 (7 years ago) Permalink

it's a piece for four performers, each performing the same score, but they each choose their own tempo, so the same chords spread out and overlap in different ways for each performance. written in 1957. doesn't necessarily require amplication.

thanks for link, will check it out laters

― milton parker (Jon L), Sunday, 21 August 2005 01:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

ah, i see. thanks. i couldn't find any info online.

it's funny to hear Feldman's voice. he's so brash!

― jed_ (jed), Sunday, 21 August 2005 01:17 (7 years ago) Permalink

chris otm except for string quartet no. 2 - flux quartet trumps ives ensemble.

― you will be shot (you will be shot), Sunday, 21 August 2005 01:18 (7 years ago) Permalink

6 months pass...

Has anyone heard the recording of Neither on Hat Art? I saw a performance of this piece recently and am looking for a decent recording of it. There's another recording out that was taken from a live radio broadcast, but I think I'd prefer the cleaner sound of a studio recording.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 23 February 2006 17:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

Have Neither on Col Legno (the radio recording) and it sounds 'clean' enough..

There's a recording that's come out of Naxos of his 'String Quartet' from '79.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 23 February 2006 17:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

Have Neither on Col Legno (the radio recording) and it sounds 'clean' enough..

I guess the ideal would be to have both and compare. I don't think a "clean" artifact-free recording (no coughs, etc) is more important than the quality of the performance. It's just that - having no comparison of the two performances to go by - it seems like - all other things being equal - the studio recording might have better sound. But I'll keep my options open if I happen to find that version.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 23 February 2006 17:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

(correction to my prev post: a recording that is coming out ON naxos..)

(Yeah you can only know by comparison so that is why I said 'clean enough' - I found it to be acceptable on its own.)

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 23 February 2006 17:59 (7 years ago) Permalink

there are some Feldman room recordings where the players' shuffles add something -- that Hans Zender 2 CD set comes to mind.

I have the Hat Art copy of Neither with Sarah Leonard -- I remember liking Sarah Leonard's sustained high notes (or note), I need to revisit this.

I finally found myself a copy of "The Viola in my Life" conducted by Feldman on CRI, and it's made my top ten, it's fantastic.

― milton parker (Jon L), Thursday, 23 February 2006 19:26 (7 years ago) Permalink

I remember liking Sarah Leonard's sustained high notes (or note)

I'm not a trained vocalist, but I'd guess the sustained high notes must present quite a challenge to a singer. When I saw this performed, the singer had some tuning forks with her, and before each time she had to come in, she would tap one and hold it up to her ear just before coming in. Unless one had perfect pitch, I'd think this would be the only way to do it - especially with the tricky intervals.

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 23 February 2006 19:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

Do you people really like this stuff? I saw a Cage/Feldman retrospective concert at Carnegie Hall, and it was just pretentious wankery for eggheads. I think you have to convince yourself you like it. It's far more interesting to read about than actually sit and listen to. Listening to it is an insanely cold, boring experience.

― shookout (shookout), Thursday, 23 February 2006 20:55 (7 years ago) Permalink

I think that Neither, at least, is more interesting to listen to (and perhaps even more interesting to see performed) than it is to read about. It's kind of like watching a Beckett play without any words (well, there are words, of course, but I couldn't make them out). I felt some of the same feelings of absurdity in the face of existence and the meaningless and banality of suffering - but yet a paradoxical sense of grandeur and beauty. In live performance, these feeling are magnified because the rigorous demands placed on the performers are clearly visible - and so their determination and fortitude becomes infused into our experience of the piece.

In some ways, works like these seem the antithesis of pop - quiet, slow, very long, atonal, dissonant - but at the same time there is a sumptuousness to the textures and dynamics that is pleasurable in a direct, unmediated sense.

Here's a brief review of the piece that I found online:

http://homepage.mac.com/javiruiz/Articles/ThreeFeldmanArticles.html#art3

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 23 February 2006 21:19 (7 years ago) Permalink

I didn't enjoy the two live Feldman concerts I've seen. The performers did come off pretentious, the audience was struggling, tons of coughs made it tough for anyone to get into it. There are tons of pretentiously executed Feldman recordings as well, that's why this thread's been valuable to me.

― milton parker (Jon L), Thursday, 23 February 2006 21:30 (7 years ago) Permalink

I'm curious about these pretentious performances and recordings. What exactly was it about them that separated them from the unpretentious performances and recordings? Are there certain ways of performing Feldman that are less pretentious than others? Does it have to do with the actual sounds that are produced, or is it a matter of the attitudes and self-regard of the performers as expressed perhaps in post-concert interviews or in sartorial choices and facial expressions?

― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 23 February 2006 21:45 (7 years ago) Permalink

dnftt

― hstencil (hstencil), Thursday, 23 February 2006 21:52 (7 years ago) Permalink

"Do you people really like this stuff? I saw a Cage/Feldman retrospective concert at Carnegie Hall, and it was just pretentious wankery for eggheads. I think you have to convince yourself you like it. It's far more interesting to read about than actually sit and listen to. Listening to it is an insanely cold, boring experience."

listening to pretty much anything at Carnegie Hall is an insanely cold, boring experience; it's where music goes to die.

― J Abbey, Friday, 24 February 2006 07:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

Some pop can sound noisy, and ballads can be slow and quiet (or not loud)...

Shall we expand this a bit? I got hold of some tracks by Walter Zimmermann (who ed. a collection of Feldman's writings) and you'd feel he is still trying to distill feldman into something more personal. There's a CD of piano works on Metier that I'd like to track down one of these days - if anyone else does..

Does anyone like those Christian Wolff recordings on Mode? I wasn't into the Cowell disc so I got it into my head that the label wouldn't do a v gd job for older composers, but its fine for newer ones (Eckhardt, Czernowin..). 'Exercise 15' on ed.wandelweiser is really good at mapping out his ways.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 24 February 2006 11:11 (7 years ago) Permalink

Some pop can sound noisy, and ballads can be slow and quiet (or not loud)...

Perhaps my list of adjectives wasn't precise enough. And I didn't mean to imply that Feldman is "noisy". Just that his work tends to be very long, very slow, very quiet, and devoid of the usual chord progressions and tonal resolutions that give most pop its instant familiarity and immediate gratification. It's music that demands a long attention span and a willingness to listen to something that doesn't have pop hooks, familiar chords, toe-tapping rhythms or catchy melodies. I have a feeling I'm kind of stating the obvious here. This lack of familiar pleasures is probably why this music gets a reputation of being pretentious and why people wonder how anyone can enjoy it.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 24 February 2006 16:33 (7 years ago) Permalink

I don't think Morton Feldman's music has a "reputation of being pretentious". Also, I've often found his music to be a popular with people who generally haven't got much time for other modern classical composers

― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 24 February 2006 16:37 (7 years ago) Permalink

Well, I didn't mean Feldman in particualar is considered pretentious - just that contemporary classical music in general is considered more likely to be pretentious than say pop music is.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 24 February 2006 16:41 (7 years ago) Permalink

ie., "pretentious wankery for eggheads" as mentioned upthread.

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 24 February 2006 16:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

I must have told the story of the Feldman concert I was at where at the end of an especially repetitive later piece I saw one of the violinists turn to another violinist and say "I've never been so bored in my life". They'd been pulling faces at each other most of the way thru the piece too!

― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 24 February 2006 16:46 (7 years ago) Permalink

Well, I guess that would be an example of an unpretentious performance. Admitting that one is bored is an unpretentious thing to do, right?

― o. nate (onate), Friday, 24 February 2006 16:50 (7 years ago) Permalink

I hope the conductor gave them what for backstage, cheeky beggars

― Rotatey Diskers With Dadaismus (Dada), Friday, 24 February 2006 16:53 (7 years ago) Permalink

These posts just made me wonder whether most modern classical is more of a concert hall matter only these days, and whether that wd be why its considered "pretentious" (there is a bigger distance btw public and the sounds they created) - I think before you wd have Ligeti in the cinema (via Kubrick) (anyone know how often Takemitsu's music was heard in the cinema), a Xenakis light show, Nono's 'Prometeo' was played to in a public park (?).. Morricone may not have been as recognisable a name in classical circles but he definetely belongs with them. otoh, does modern classical tactics have a stronger presence in art galleries than in the late 60s?

Feldman/X were the big two i started listening to when 'getting' classical. Both were big outsiders in terms of what they sounded like and in the reception of their sounds in classical circles (not that i knew so at the time) so its not a surprise that people have been gravitating toward that music. The Xenakis weekend at the RFH was highly attended and it wouldn't be a surprise if just as many turned out for the Feldman weekend.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 25 February 2006 11:00 (7 years ago) Permalink

I love late Feldman, especially the Tilbury performances of Triadic Memories and For Bunita Marcus, but I have yet to motivate to see a live performance of it. I tend to think that kind of gradually progressing long-form work is more effective at home, where you can walk around and live in it, and it's not the sole focus of your attention for every second of its length. I skipped the recent Radigue performances here (NYC) for similar reasons.

― J Abbey, Saturday, 25 February 2006 16:28 (7 years ago) Permalink

There's a new date for a rare Flux Quartet performance of Feldman's (six hours long!) String Quartet No. 2 at LACMA. It has been changed to Saturday, April 15, at 4 pm.

― Jeff LeVine (Jeff LeVine), Tuesday, 28 February 2006 05:06 (7 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

The recording of his graphic scores, as played by the Barton Workshop, has to be the best 'short' feldman disc i've heard and also totally unlike the style he'd go on to develop.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 28 March 2006 20:57 (7 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

nice job alex ross

http://www.newyorker.com/critics/atlarge/?060619crat_atlarge

the description of his friendship with cage reminded me of these, which are really worth hearing

http://www.ubu.com/sound/cage_feldman.html

(and Lovely Music still has cheap copies of the out-of-print transcriptions, which is one of the best Feldman books around: http://www.lovely.com/titles/bkradiohappenings.html)

― milton parker (Jon L), Monday, 12 June 2006 18:31 (6 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Morton Feldman 'String Quartet (1979)' on Naxos is good! The ending is so totally sudden and non-, I ended up with a 'no wonder he spent another 4 hours finishing this' (as on 'str quartet(II)') kinda job.

Anyway, my top five has changed:

'For Philip Guston' I suspect this will be on top for a long time, really the sorta end for the style he arrived at toward the end of his life, which was started by the first 'string quartet', which goes in at second place.

'Words and music' still in 3rd. So its 'overacted', but its very engaging. I know it should probably be 'Neither' instead for Feldman-esque drama, but 'words and music' has that novelty feel about that hasn't worn off yet, something that got him out of any comfort zone, which is partly what experimental is.

'For Bunita Marcus'/'All Piano' and finally 'Composing by numbers - The graphic Scores, 1950-67' in at no5. My favourite short length Feldman. This is where it all began and really important - if you line this up alongside 'For Philip Guston' you can get at what he ws trying to do. The way I'm thinking is he would spend his time trying to come up with a style that took those hard edges out of some of these, how he'd develop his rhythms and frame music using silence for long periods. All of it starts here.

With mentions of the 'str quartet (II)' I'd say that covers it - only took about two years for a more definitive ans than the one before - must have been really into 'three voices' at the time but its no top five. 'Crippled symmetry' is but it travels a similar road to 'for philip guston' that it could be left out (though you need it, esp if like me if you find it at reduced prices). Never quite got into any of the orchestral pieces as I'm not so into the orchestral tradition (not enough hooks!).

― xyzzzz__ (jdesouza), Tuesday, 1 August 2006 08:29 (6 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 53 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

He would have turned 85 in January... not a terribly significant numeral in my book but hey.

Kurtag was born the same year; his 85th bday was Saturday.

The two of them are so opposite (except in the fact that both require you to pay v close attention) that I think they'll make a great program together.

― Ban Hammerskjold (Jon Lewis), Thursday, 24 February 2011 02:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

3 months pass...

http://www.kylegann.com/PC080129-Dispraise-of-Efficiency.html

― Milton Parker, Monday, 20 June 2011 19:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

This is great:

"One of my favorite stories Feldman liked to tell was of Marcel Duchamp visiting an art class in San Francisco, where he saw a young man wildly painting away. Duchamp went over and asked, "What are you doing?" The young man said, "I don't know what the fuck I'm doing!" And Duchamp patted him on the back and said, "Keep up the good work.""

― geeta, Monday, 20 June 2011 20:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

a recent release on Willem Breuker's BVHaast label from Feldman's Last Composition: http://wbk.home.xs4all.nl/_0110Feldman_Info.html

― EvR, Wednesday, 22 June 2011 08:26 (1 year ago) Permalink

one other thing worth noting with New World contuing its CRI Records reissue program... two months ago they finally got around to "The Viola In My Life", three 70's performances conducted by Feldman. I would have mentioned that one in the secondaries of my first post if I'd heard it, it's not glossy or ambient, it's close-miked & delicate. Lots of room tone and small noises & movements, very live, active listening.
http://www.newworldrecords.org/album.cgi?rm=view&album_id=17147.com
― milton parker (Jon L), Thursday, January 4, 2007 1:23 AM (4 years ago) Bookmark

really been enjoying this one over the last few days. "delicate" is exactly how I would describe it as well.

― (⊙_⊙?) (Alan N), Wednesday, 22 June 2011 13:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

I have to be in a very particular mood to enjoy Feldman. My favorite of his is Coptic Light, and I don't think it's a coincidence that it's also his busiest piece.

― corey, Wednesday, 22 June 2011 13:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

same here. but when I'm in that mood, the slow, sparse nature of his later work coupled with the tension/release dynamic the repetition brings out really gets me.

that said, I listened to string quartet 2 a few weeks back and felt like an insane person by the end of it.

― (⊙_⊙?) (Alan N), Wednesday, 22 June 2011 13:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

argh, need to proofread.

I haven't listened to coptic light tho. any recording you would recommend?

― (⊙_⊙?) (Alan N), Wednesday, 22 June 2011 13:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

I have the one on CPO coupled with the early Durations pieces, which are okay, but CL is the highlight.

Someone (I think Michael Gielen) has a disc coupling CL and Bruckner's 8th.

― corey, Wednesday, 22 June 2011 14:17 (1 year ago) Permalink

I will seek out the CPO release then, thanks!

― (⊙_⊙?) (Alan N), Wednesday, 22 June 2011 14:30 (1 year ago) Permalink

There's something about the photo on the cover of this LP that is just so strange:

― geeta, Wednesday, 22 June 2011 14:52 (1 year ago) Permalink

For me, I like Coptic Light the best. The thing with Feldman is that the shorter a piece is, the more musical information there is, as for longer pieces it's the opposite.
I'd also reccommend the ECM recording of 'The Viola In My Life' that came out some years ago. Stellar perfomance and sound quality. The last section with orchestra and viola is very moving.

― EvR, Wednesday, 22 June 2011 15:47 (1 year ago) Permalink

Just dropped for this: http://www.hyphenpress.co.uk/music/morton_feldman_jazz_tributes

Looks fun, I'll let you know.

― SB OK (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 23 June 2011 08:40 (1 year ago) Permalink

8 months pass...

i can't really afford to go to this. but can i really afford to not go? probably my one and only chance, no?

http://www.glasgowconcerthalls.com/whatson/event/105058-Minimal-Extreme:-The-Smith-Quartet:-Feldman%27s-Quartet-No.2-%286-hours%29

― jed_, Wednesday, 29 February 2012 14:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

This Thur:

http://www.cafeoto.co.uk/golden-fur-morton-feldman-patterns-in-a-chromatic-field.shtm

― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 22 July 2012 12:15 (10 months ago) Permalink

That Feldman perf was pretty good, can sink into those shapes for hours -- which is good since he writes material that tends to go well over an hour -- we need more of those quiet performances so that we can hear it against creaky chairs and sirens going round on a late and hot London evening.

― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 28 July 2012 22:36 (9 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Grear new release: http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/aug/15/feldman-crippled-symmetry-review?INTCMP=SRCH

― Terabytes of FLACS of screaming (Call the Cops), Monday, 3 September 2012 11:46 (8 months ago) Permalink

GreaT, that is.

― Terabytes of FLACS of screaming (Call the Cops), Monday, 3 September 2012 11:46 (8 months ago) Permalink

anyone heard this one?

http://www.moderecords.com/catalog/238feldman.html

― clouds, Monday, 3 September 2012 12:51 (8 months ago) Permalink

Yup... another winner. Other newish releases: Matchless have put out a couple of DVDs of John Tilbury performing piano + chamber group pieces. Absolutely spellbinding.

― Terabytes of FLACS of screaming (Call the Cops), Monday, 3 September 2012 21:05 (8 months ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

For John Cage at the Purcell Room: http://ticketing.southbankcentre.co.uk/find/music/classical/tickets/for-john-cage-by-morton-feldman-68641

No intermission, sober Monday night - just pay, watch away from all (right near the top of Purcell), zone out for 80 mins, then fuck off.

My definition of a perfect gig.

― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 29 September 2012 16:14 (7 months ago) Permalink

"For John Cage" might be my fave Feldman piece (by a narrow margin--was the first one I ever heard of); sounds like an amazing opportunity for Londoners to hear it (10 pounds seems like a steal for something like that)...

― Yellow Tonka//Sony Titanium - YT//ST (Craig D.), Saturday, 29 September 2012 17:01 (7 months ago) Permalink

I've got a ticket for this. Really looking forward to it - first Feldman I'll ever see live.

― toby, Sunday, 30 September 2012 05:05 (7 months ago) Permalink

£5 student ticket! this and fushitsusha playing a five minute walk from my house, london is making a mockery of my resolution to attend fewer concerts this coming year.

― Perfect Chicken Forever (Merdeyeux), Wednesday, 3 October 2012 00:46 (7 months ago) Permalink

this was good but i cannot express how annoyed i was by the older lady next to me who kept coughing and smacking her lips and burping and tapping her feet and making various other noises. i guess i'm a bad cageian. :(

― Perfect Chicken Forever (Merdeyeux), Saturday, 13 October 2012 18:05 (7 months ago) Permalink

lol when i went to the free john cage performance w/ john tilbury in glasgow concert halls recently, two little old ladies sat in front of us were in a state of increasing disgruntlement, which climaxed w/ one turning to the other, during a long silent passage, and quite audibly saying, "what rubbish"! like you, i tried my very best to see it as a cageian intervention. they didn't return after the interval.

― Ward Fowler, Saturday, 13 October 2012 21:01 (7 months ago) Permalink

haha 'what rubbish', how are there still people who will go to a free john cage performance in 2012 and react that way

― j., Saturday, 13 October 2012 23:45 (7 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Lol, in that same Feldman concert @ Purcell a man was snoring away for about 5 mins but actually I am so used to this kind of thing I tend to use it to add concentration and work with it. I had a whole thing I wanted to write about on this but I had to sleep myself when I got back and then forgot about it...

Anyway I would say it should be seen as a real part of concert going - its there, so actively use it.

Anyway, More Feldman and Tilbury in London

My other experience of 'what rubbish' came @ Wigmore hall, in a Renaissance choral recital. This was also programmed with contemporary works and I sat next to two very suited up guys getting very pissy at one of the (admitedly very poor) works. They left at half-time but they missed truly awesome Madrigals in the 2nd half.

― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 4 December 2012 19:40 (5 months ago) Permalink

I've seen a lot more Feldman in live performance now than I had when this thread was started. It's such a challenge so much of the time. Basically, anything written for less than four instruments is going to be so intimate and spare that you can nearly bet at least one person is going to lose their composure in a way that breaks concentration for the entire room, either by fidgeting loudly or by falling asleep. But I agree you've got to use it, as good as this music sounds as isolationist personal 3AM listening, it really is meant as music for live performance and everything social that entails

The one exception to this I've gotten to witness is 'Rothko Chapel' -- there's a bit more dramatic movement in that piece than most others, and also the physical presence of the chorus on stage keeps everyone magnetized -- when will they sing? And then, once they do, it's out of nowhere. Even at SF's Davies Symphony Hall, which seats nearly 3000 and is notoriously filled with season ticket holders who inexplicably bring plastic bags with them for the seeming and sole purpose of nervously crinkling them during all the most suspended moments -- when Tilson Thomas did 'Rothko', I had never, ever heard Davies that quiet. It was on the bill with Mozart's 'Requiem', I was expecting the traditionalists to be at their most cranky, but nope, 'Rothko' is just a masterpiece

― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 4 December 2012 20:12 (5 months ago) Permalink

http://www.discogs.com/Morton-Feldman-New-Directions-In-Music-2/release/1218389

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeFnpPNSLug

this is still the first piece I usually play people who ask me about Feldman and it's still so under-recognized for being such a hallmark work in the history of process music. Everyone's made the connection between minimalism and the early tape-loop/tape-delay pieces by Riley/Oliveros/Reich and later Eno, but even before those works, there was 'Piece For Four Pianos' where four people play the same piece of sheet music, but pick their own tempo, so the same chord sequence slowly starts recombining itself into different patterns

it came out on Columbia in 1959, so pretty much everyone heard this, it wasn't some obscurity sitting unreleased for 30-40 years

― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 4 December 2012 20:28 (5 months ago) Permalink

xpost The two things I have been lucky to see here in NYC are Patterns In A Chromatic Field and Rothko Chapel, the two sides of the divide you mention. Luckily the former was in a small turkish rug shop that seated... maybe 40 people? so the intimacy was not hindered.

― my other pug is a stillsuit (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 4 December 2012 20:29 (5 months ago) Permalink

sure hope I get to see Patterns In A Chromatic Field in a Turkish rug shop someday

― Milton Parker, Tuesday, 4 December 2012 20:31 (5 months ago) Permalink

it ruled so hard. La Monte was there or someone who looked just like him.

― my other pug is a stillsuit (Jon Lewis), Tuesday, 4 December 2012 20:32 (5 months ago) Permalink

All 4/5 perfs of the small late works I've attended over the years have been in small-ish venues to no more than 50 people. Seen quieter music, disrupted by others or outside traffic. A fact of concert going life. Almost think it was these kinds of experiences with yawning ladies that led Cage to his theories as much as the Buddhist-musical-theoretical mumbo jumbo.

If a performance is disrupted by a siren think of Varese.

Incidentally, I recommended Feldman to a friend when she asked me what type of classical music she could do her ironing to. I know I know..

― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 4 December 2012 23:34 (5 months ago) Permalink

also good for folding laundry

― Tome Cruise (Matt P), Tuesday, 4 December 2012 23:40 (5 months ago) Permalink

it has many uses

― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 4 December 2012 23:46 (5 months ago) Permalink

― Tome Cruise (Matt P), Tuesday, 4 December 2012 23:48 (5 months ago) Permalink

Last night was p/good - all of these pieces add to one another when played in succession in an unbroken spell - you notice how certain sounds stay on for longer than they should, others are cut off at their peak, and the clashes between all of these sounds that actually do not clash.

There were risks w/the programming: Madame Press Died Last Week at Ninety (a transcription of a piece for ensemble) and Piano (Three Hands) (the third hand supplied by Tilbury's cousin) both took a turn toward a blandness I didn't think Feldman was capable of. But it set the scene for Palais De Mari. Tilbury made a few remarks and called the piece sumptuous but what's impressive is how he undercuts that quality at the most unexpected points and doesn't make a big show of deploying *avant-garde technique a, b, c...*, he is incredibly subtle about this.

Feldman called it Palais a distillation of all his music for piano but its a hard claim to examine and I'm not sure I agree with that.

This was full. I don't think Cafe Oto is that good a venue for recitals but it is the austerity venue for recitals. Sirens all round, you hear a lot of insecure posturing in the pre-concert conversation. Fine in the end, w/Cageian listening a must.

― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 12 December 2012 12:50 (5 months ago) Permalink

Furthermore you can see Tilbury's versatiliy - how many classical performers would put up w/that venue?

otoh he seems purely into Feldman...I was wondering how a pair up w/works by Webern would look like.

― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 12 December 2012 13:18 (5 months ago) Permalink

hmm i don't have/know Palais de Mari

― the clown's reflection is incorrect (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 12 December 2012 16:53 (5 months ago) Permalink

i played the "late pieces w/ clarinet" last night. "clarinet and string quartet" just breaths in and out like a gentle warm thing.

― horse motivator (clouds), Wednesday, 12 December 2012 16:57 (5 months ago) Permalink

ha i just got that album (as MP3s) from eMusic. It's less than 2 bucks for some reason!

― the clown's reflection is incorrect (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 12 December 2012 16:59 (5 months ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

Big thanks to all in this thread for the Feldman info. Had never listened to him before reading this a couple weeks ago (poked my head in as I've been having a lot of fun listening to 20th cent classical lately). Have pretty much listened only to him since. Really really fantastic stuff.

Initial faves are 'Rothko Chapel' 'for Philip Guston' and 'Viola in my Life' - though I've enjoyed pretty much everything I've heard.

Stoked that there'll be a performance of a Feldman piece in Boston on March 10th as part of a program with a buncha Webern.
Love it when something like that pops up just as I'm getting into somebody. They'll be playing something called 'Piano, Violin, Viola, Cello' - can't find on Spotify or Youtube... can anybody shed any light?

Again... much thanks, y'all. :)

― mr.raffles, Wednesday, 13 February 2013 02:57 (3 months ago) Permalink

It's his final composition. A remarkable one even after his unmatched run of longer pieces throughout the 80s. Words fail me, but - of course - you must attend!

― OG requiem head (Call the Cops), Wednesday, 13 February 2013 06:54 (3 months ago) Permalink

Thanks for the info! Sounds fantastic... and I certainly WILL attend.

It's free too!

http://collagenewmusic.org/wp/?page_id=15

― mr.raffles, Wednesday, 13 February 2013 15:07 (3 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

The concert was fantastic.

Was odd seeing Feldman's music performed by people for the first time. In stuff like 'Beckett' and 'Rothko' the sounds seem like things that just appear, rather than stuff played by humans. to me. haha

― mr.raffles, Wednesday, 13 March 2013 00:44 (2 months ago) Permalink

I was lucky to get to see Rothko live too, at Avery Fisher Hall a few years ago, and it was v transformative of my feelings about the music to actually SEE these kosmische barely-there colors actually emerging from ppl arrayed on a stage.

― multi instru mentat list (Jon Lewis), Wednesday, 13 March 2013 15:30 (2 months ago) Permalink

would love to see Rothko.
yeah. seeing it performed has def switched things up for me a bit, listening to him now. glad that's not just me being crazy.

was also weird what this slow-moving 80-minute piece did to time perception. after a bit, my gf was like "i could go soon" (haha). both of us were thinking maybe 25 minutes had elapsed... we looked at her phone and the piece was almost over. very odd.

― mr.raffles, Friday, 15 March 2013 21:08 (2 months ago) Permalink

Feldman associate Eberhard Blum passed away a week or two ago. Haven't seen any worthy obituaries yet. Also a remarkable performer of Cage and K. Schwitters, amongst others.

― Call the Cops, Sunday, 17 March 2013 11:29 (2 months ago) Permalink

:-(

Yes one of those brilliant performers of the NY school.

― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 17 March 2013 22:56 (2 months ago) Permalink

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