You lot are going to hate me for this but: can you explain me the appeal of the Velvet Underground?

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I'm sorry, I know. I feel as though I'm completely missing something here. The VU get so many props and when I read ILM I'm given the impression that they are infallible gods or something.
So I have a copy of "VU & Nico", which I thought was nice enough. I quite liked the opening track and I thought one of the Nico songs was pretty cool, but really there wasn't a whole lot on it that struck me. So I got White Light, White Heat. I really didn't like that.
I just find it all rather unpleasant to listen to. It's badly recorded, the music is dirge-like and one chord, the lyrics are okay but often just devolve into repeating the same thing. And people say they're important as the Beatles. I mean, I could have made Heroin fairly easily, just bang on a folder and mumble sub-crackhead shit for about 7 minutes - easy.
I don't want this thread to be a big diss to the VU though and I don't want you to call me a cunt for not liking them (as has happened before), but I want to at least understand why people like them so much even if I can't.
Is there anything I'm missing or should be listening out for? Is the cultural/historical significance of the VU important to the music?

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

Oh no, oh no, I've just tried to do this for our bassist, and failed miserably...

"The great thing about the Velvet Underground is, that they were a little bit shit." I can't really explain it any more than that.

It's like this drone gene to appreciate stuff like that, the texture of it all, and either you have it, or you don't.

― Ma$onic Boom (kate), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

It's cos they look so cool and shit, they even wear shades at night and obviously omg they had ANDY WARHOL do their cover so they aren't pop or anything and they liked FREE JAZZ which again makes them above all that pop crap and Nico had a kind of Euro-boho thing, so again above pop.

Er, but other than that, some really good records, seriously.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

So you didn't get an idea about why people like them from the other 38000 VU threads on ILM?

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

the appeal is that the strokes like them!

― thesplooge (thesplooge), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

right, these reasons are sort of what i suspected. I really do get the impression there's a lot of style over substance going on, which is just fine because oftentimes I find myself getting into a band because I like their look and attitudes, and THEN liking the music on that basis.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

The song "Heroin" is the last place you should start. Even I don't like it. Also disregard all that stuff about mixing pop and art and "cool" and that kind of argument. It's true, but it's a red herring. No one ever loved a band because they were "cool". Disregard that style over substance shit. I don't give a toss about it.

If your complaint is "Well, it's just one chord, over and over, for a really long time" well, see, that's the *point*! You could say that about any of the bands that I love.

Also, they're one of the few bands I love where the lyrics are really, truly important to me. There's a kind of emotional descriptiveness about the darker side of human sentiments that I find really uplifting. And not a stupid, trite, Doors-style "ooh, we're so DAAAAARRRRK" proto-Goth thing. It's more like, a very emotionally honest description of the bad things that can happen to people, and how they deal with it.

― Ma$onic Boom (kate), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

I mean, even if the drones and the noise and the early albums turn you off, go and get the third album (conveniently called "The Velvet Underground". A lot of the stuff that people find distracting - the noise, the feedback, the artschool cool - has been stripped down, and it's just the naked lyrics and the heartbreaking melody.

― Ma$onic Boom (kate), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

good guitar tone/playing.
freaky noises wrung from electric viola.
(very) intermittently excellent songwriting.

oh that whole cliche "the seedy underbelly of rock" mythos crap they inspired, i guess.

― jess, Friday, 23 July 2004 11:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

haha xpost

oh, and the rock/"avant-garde" crossover. because john cale was a smarty art wigga and lou reed is "street". they were the outkast of 1966!

― jess, Friday, 23 July 2004 11:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

'I mean, I could have made Heroin fairly easily, just bang on a folder and mumble sub-crackhead shit for about 7 minutes - easy.'

But you didn't.

― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

The eponymous album is pretty good but everything else sucks.

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

This is the part where we recall that the album version of "Heroin" is crap and wasn't recorded properly, with the drums and guitars in different rooms which is why they are not in sync. Any live version is better example of how it should be done.

― Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

And also, well, sorry to barge in here, because you're *almost* right with this:

oh, and the rock/"avant-garde" crossover. because john cale was a smarty art wigga and lou reed is "street".

Well, not really. I wouldn't say Lou Reed was "street". But he was, quite literally, Tin Pan Alley, Brill Building Bubblegum POP! The appeal is that they mixed the weird, fucked up avant-guarde noise with an accessible pop aesthetic. (again, see that third album.)

― Ma$onic Boom (kate), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

'Heroin' was the first thing I heard too, and I hated it, and VU for years after because of it. But then I was getting deep into the Stooges et al, a bunch of years back, and swapped a clutch of promos for the 'Peel Slowly' box ages ago, and just started listening to it all again. I guess I was more open to the whole myth of the Velvets this time around, too, and I think that's a potent part of their appeal - like, part of the thrill of 'sister ray' is just knowing that they kept on ploughing through that wall of noise, after the engineer walked out in disgust, and after sanity would have suggested they stop.

also, they were the first band to do all the things they did - or, at least, the first band of their prominence. sure, the druggy, debauched atmosphere feels a little creaky, a little cheesy now, but consider the impact given the era. The Velvets demand the suspension of disbelief, to a certain extent.

But they made some *great* records too. The guitar interplay between Reed and Sterling Morrison was *killer* (check Live:1969 for proof), the third album's muted pop was so sublime, so evocative and so enveloping. White Leat, White Heat is just psychotic, *so* pointedly unpleasant, from the queasy amphetamine R'n'B of the title track, through the grisliness of 'The Gift', the broken-neck guitar heroics of 'I Heard Her Call My Name', the monolithic, electrifying build of 'Sister Ray'. The fourth album's just wonderful pop music, a great summer album.

But the myth and the romance of the Velvets are key as well. That's why even a presumed-clunker like the Live At Max's City is riveting to some, because even though the band play average and sound awful on the sub-bootleg recording, the ambience of the venue - and how it ties in with the Velvets' and the Warhol set's dovetailing lasting image as a debauched and sleazy time - is something I'm a sucker for, soaking up the drama of Jim Carroll, stood beside the tape recorder, ordering a Pernod that he never receives, and buying a clutch of Tuinols instead.

― stevie (stevie), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

it must also be said that the dear friends of mine who've been Velvets obsessives over the years are fascinated by the 'seedy underbelly' but wouldn't ever do drugs themselves.

― stevie (stevie), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

I've always preferred:

― Jazzbo (jmcgaw), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

Five of their albums show up in my 100 favorite ever, though I'm guessing Dog Latin would like them in reverse order.

#2)White Light/White Heat

#20)The Velvet Underground & Nico

#51)1969 Live With Lou Reed

#64)The Velvet Underground

#76)Loaded

(sorry about typos, other failings and whatnot)

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

My favourite album(s) are actually the out-takes albums. VU and Another View, or whatever they are called. The one that starts with She's My Best Friend and Stephanie Says, and has Temptation Inside Your Heart (and After Hours, too, if memory serves? I don't have it at work with me today, strangely enough) that's my favourite.

― Ma$onic Boom (kate), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

Those tracks were scattered about the box, but After Hours is precious... There's a take of Lou singing it on the new deluxe Live At Max's that's out in August.

― stevie (stevie), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:34 (8 years ago) Permalink

er, "Heroin" was one of the tunes that sucked me into the whole thing. What's so bad about it? I thought the drums and guitars not being in sync was part of the point!

― southern lights (southern lights), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:42 (8 years ago) Permalink

This is one of the things that I miss about not having the box set any more, is all the extra tracks from around the same period, all in once place.

DAMMIT!!! Discs 2 through 5 were nicked while I was on tour! I still have the box, the cases, the book, and the early demos (some joker stuck my Strokes demo in there as well) but I'm just missing the discs! Can anyone copy them for me? Please? I'll be your best friend, carry your books home from school?

― Ma$onic Boom (kate), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:46 (8 years ago) Permalink

it seemed dull to me, aged 14. too long a wait for the payoff, i wanted *instant gratification* (which might be why it was a good idea i wasn't having sex during that age)

Kate - I can burn you them. I misplaced the Loaded disk for ages, though I have the 2CD Loaded too, so I wasn't too worried.

― stevie (stevie), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

"it must also be said that the dear friends of mine who've been Velvets obsessives over the years are fascinated by the 'seedy underbelly' but wouldn't ever do drugs themselves. "

i have a lot of friends into hardcore rap but they dont want to shoot or get shot by anyone either.

― thesplooge (thesplooge), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:48 (8 years ago) Permalink

Discs 2 through 5 were nicked while I was on tour!

haha at least you've still got those '65 demos!

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:49 (8 years ago) Permalink

Stevie, I would be eternally grateful to you if you could burn me those missing discs! And the two-disc Loaded... I very nearly bought that the other day!

I *always* hated Loaded when I was younger. Maybe I just wasn't old enough to understand it at the time or something, I don't know. It just sounded like coked-up disco-boogie with that bad 70s production, I wanted the noise and the feedback and all that! So I didn't listen to it for years. And then I gave it a chance when I got the box set (perhaps it was the alternate mixes that did it) and I utterly loved it.

― Ma$onic Boom (kate), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

The appeal of the VU?

1) Attitude

A song like Venus in Furs just oozes druggy decadence. They really hated the peace/love/LSD west coast bands and provided a counter-balance to their over-optimistic heralding of the age of aquarius. The obvious contradictions in their lyrics, music and interviews are intriguing and make them more human than they appear at first listen. Their attitude somehow epitomises my idea of New York - no bullshit, loud, cynical, sexy, laconic, energetic, ambiguous, chaotic, uptight.

2) Melody

Lou Reed had an obvious gift for melody and anyone who appreciates a good tune should appreciate the VU.

3) Lyrics

See attitude. Sterling once said in an interview that they deliberately didn't print the lyrics to their songs and made them difficult to discern when listening as a way of saying "fuck you, if you want reading matter, buy the new york times" or words to that effect. And yet at the same time their lyrics could be simply fantastic - "dark", brutual and cynical at times, or tender, joyful and life-affirming at others. They wanted rock-n-roll to be a visceral rather than an intellectual experience, but they just happened to able to write brilliant lyrics.

4) They are the coolest looking band ever.

5) The fact that they were a bit rough around the edges. The guitar solo to "I'm Set Free" is so amateurish it's almost embarrassing. That they wrote such brilliant songs using the most basic chord progressions is a source of inspiration to any musician more concerned with expression/communication than impressing the audience with technical ability.

Right - now everyone is welcome to tear into my arguments and tell me what a numpty I am.

― metalmickey, Friday, 23 July 2004 11:52 (8 years ago) Permalink

(Now if only I could find someone to copy "Appetite For Destruction" and "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" for me... not bothered about the Datsuns CD that went missing about the same time, tho. The thieves can keep that!)

― Ma$onic Boom (kate), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

I certainly think Velvet Underground & Nico is overrated. I wonder if something about appreciating VU depends on having internalized rock history, especially the indie side of things. In the Spin records guide someone noted that entire indie subgenres can be traced to specific VU songs and it's almost true.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:54 (8 years ago) Permalink

Argh, I just tried to look up the track listing for Loaded on Allmusic and suddenly realised what you'd all been complaining about.

Aside to Mark, no, I'm sorry, it has nothing to do with internalising indie rock history. I started listening to the VU in my mid teens, when I had very little knowledge of indierock, in fact, large sections of indierock hadn't even been invented yet. If the VU had a large amount of influence, it's because they made a very difficult balancing act look incredibly *easy*.

― Ma$onic Boom (kate), Friday, 23 July 2004 11:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I got into the VU in middle school. REM talked about 'em and I got hooked fast.

If anything, I think people who have internalized indie rock history are more apt to have a kneejerk dismissal of the band. My assumption of "god-like genius" is why I didn't find anything enjoyable about Bob Dylan for ages.

― CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:03 (8 years ago) Permalink

What I dislike about Dylan is his nasty voice and boring music. :o)

― Sick Mouthy (Nick Southall), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

their appeal to me: they couldn't sing harmonies, and cales organ was always a bit flat, but gloriously so!

― dave amos, Friday, 23 July 2004 12:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

also nico was by far the most talented member.

― damien street, Friday, 23 July 2004 12:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

kate - mail me and i'll try and sort it out next week! x

― stevie (stevie), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:15 (8 years ago) Permalink

Which email? This new hotmail one, or your other older lippy one?

(I will love you forever, and we'll never row again, if you can sort it out for me!)

― Ma$onic Boom (kate), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:17 (8 years ago) Permalink

"Well, not really. I wouldn't say Lou Reed was "street". But he was, quite literally, Tin Pan Alley, Brill Building Bubblegum POP!"

How right. VU were Shadow Morton/King-Goffin pop genius + avant-garde + early rock n roll crudeness. I love their first two albums, but growing older I tend to prefer their mellower side. And how can you resist to those endless live versions of _What goes on_?

― Marco Damiani (Marco D.), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

Nick: Dylan's voice nasty, Danny McNamara's voice is ... ?

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

Don't think I agree with that - yes, Lou used to work in da Brill Building, but I don't think that aesthetic influenced VU much...they're melodic, sure, but if there's anything Pop about them it's a lot closer to Simon & Garfunkel than The Shirelles, tho I'm sure Lou Reed would spit in my face for suggesting this.

Sick, are you subbing for Hongro or something?

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

any of my many hotmails! this one works too!

Lou used to work in da Brill Building, but I don't think that aesthetic influenced VU much...

*splutters* 'Sunday Morning'??? Hello??????

― stevie (stevie), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

maybe i don't like them for the same reason i like all pavement's stuff except for slanted and enchanted and westing. i don't think i understand lo-fi.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

i think drone as an aesthetic is one of the more important components of modern music, and i can think of few better entres to drone than the velvet underground. i mean, that aside, i agree with everything everyone else said about how good their albums are, how cool-looking they are, blah blah blah. but i think if one of the things that turns you off about the VU is the drone, you might be missing out on a lot of really really great music besides the VU, too.

― peter smith (plsmith), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

Their attitude somehow epitomises my idea of New York - no bullshit, loud, cynical, sexy, laconic, energetic, ambiguous, chaotic, uptight.

This is why I haven't actually listened to my VU LPs since I left college/The Strokes appeared on the horizon.

― Enrique (Enrique), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:23 (8 years ago) Permalink

Oh no, oh no, they have SO MUCH FAKE MOTOWN in them! I mean, check out "Temptation Inside Your Heart" or the backing track for "The Gift" or that sort of stuff. Lou Reed loves the bubblegum, oh how he does.

Oh, and What Goes On... it's been too long since I heard that song. Someday I shall use my music editing techniques to produce a 60-minute uber-version by editing all the live versions together, and then I shall die happy and have that played at my funeral.

― Ma$onic Boom (kate), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

Jonathan Richman saw VU live 100 times -- here are his thoughts:

They were wild like the USA
A mystery band in a New York way
Rock and roll, but not like the rest
And to me, America at it's best
How in the world were they making that sound?
Velvet Underground.

A spooky tone on a Fender bass
Played less notes and left more space
Stayed kind of still, looked kinda shy
Kinda far away, kinda dignified.
How in the world were they making that sound?
Velvet Underground.

Now you can look at that band and wonder where
All that sound was coming from
With just 4 people there.

Twangy sounds of the cheapest types,
Sounds as stark as black and white stripes,
Bold and brash, sharp and rude,
Like the heats turned off
And you're low on food.
How in the world were they making that sound?
Velvet Underground.
Like this...

Wild wild parties when they start to unwind
A close encounter of the thirdest kind
On the bandstand playing, everybody's saying
How in the world were they making that sound?
Velvet Underground.

Well you could look at that band
And at first sight
Say that certain rules about modern music
Wouldn't apply tonight.

Twangy sounds of the cheapest kind,
Like "Guitar sale $29.99,"
Bold and brash, stark and still,
Like the heats turned off
And you can't pay the bill.
How in the world were they making that sound?
Velvet Underground.

Both guitars got the fuzz tone on
The drummer's standing upright pounding along
A howl, a tone, a feedback whine
Biker boys meet the college kind
How in the world were they making that sound?
Velvet Underground.

Wild wild parties when they start to unwind
A close encounter of the thirdest kind
On the bandstand grooving, everybody moving
How in the world are they making that sound?
Velvet Underground.

― Mark (MarkR), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

your funeral is gonna be confusing, dude.

― peter smith (plsmith), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

i don't mind droney stuff as long as it's warm. vu have a spikey, slightly luke warm drone feel to me.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

someday you'll have to burn a copy of that _what goes on_ edit for me.

― Marco Damiani (Marco D.), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

It's okay not to like them. Now I will read the thread.

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 23 July 2004 12:25 (8 years ago) Permalink

i'm downloading "velvet underground" now though.

― dog latin (dog latin), Friday, 23 July 2004 12:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 47 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

btw, i really earnestly love that album cover. i dont think ill ever listen to any of it, in an attempt to still feel good about the album cover.

― peter smith (plsmith), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:35 (8 years ago) Permalink

Ha ha. When I finally got to hear Squeeze it wasn't as awful as I'd expected it to be. I kind of half-remember one or two songs being almost sort of kind of slightly good.

― dlp9001, Friday, 23 July 2004 14:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

anthony you actually have your favorite albums listed in ranked order? and remember the order? man.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

What is Squeeze?

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 23 July 2004 14:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

the only record from the doug yule-led, post-lou reed incarnation of the VY, long out of print (except in japan, that magical land where everything is in print).

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:39 (8 years ago) Permalink

ahh the ol' velvet yunderground.

― peter smith (plsmith), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:41 (8 years ago) Permalink

Re: Squeeze, there's a box set of live post-Lou Velvets that I'm not masochistic enough to buy (though since I haven't heard it I have no idea if it's terrible...common sense says it is but you just never know till you know).

― dlp9001, Friday, 23 July 2004 14:43 (8 years ago) Permalink

my understanding from those "in the know" is that it's not TERRIBLE, just very mediocre.

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:44 (8 years ago) Permalink

So with all the archival VU material that has been released on CD, there's still a known album that isn't available on CD (outside of Japan)? We have tapes of John Cale fucking off on a roof somewhere, but not this?

x-post: a little like Loaded then?

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 23 July 2004 14:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

yes, it's not fair.

― Marco Damiani (Marco D.), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

xpost - those archival John Cale-fucking around CDs that Table of the Elements put out are good, dude.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

I wouldn't be surprised if they are good.

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 23 July 2004 14:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

This thread already exists:

Say something BORING about the Velvet Underground

hahahahahaha (i'm a stinker.)

― scott seward (scott seward), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

i have a couple of those John Cale cd's. Tony Corrad is on board too. Very good stuff indeed - if you adore the Great Drone in the Sky.

― Marco Damiani (Marco D.), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

TS the great drone in the sky vs. "spirit in the sky"

― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

that's a kick-ass riff, not a drone.

― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 23 July 2004 14:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

(why not real Motown)

I took "fake Motown" to mean "Motown style songs played in a diferent instrumental setting"...you know, like "The Boy With The Arab Strap". Of course the 60's had their own fake Motown (Jackie Wilson etc.), which complicates matters.

― Daniel_Rf (Daniel_Rf), Friday, 23 July 2004 15:40 (8 years ago) Permalink

The thing is, it's all about White Light/White Heat. I don't like Loaded at all ("Who Loves the Sun" and the first 10 seconds of "Sweet Jane" aside), the first album is fine but I've heard it too much, and the third album is gorgeous but not very exciting (though it's still probably in my top 100 albums). But I waited way too long to buy WL/WH because the "noise" songs on the first album were my least favorites, so I figured I wouldn't like them in noise-mode. Um, I was wrong. Nearly every track blows me away, every time. "Sister Ray" is just staggering - I never knew I could be NOT bored by a seventeen-minute song. So yeah, they do deserve their reputation, even if the other albums aren't quite as overwhelming as everyone says.

― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Saturday, 24 July 2004 03:13 (8 years ago) Permalink

http://www.ergophizmiz.com/whitelightwhiteheat/

― (Jon L), Saturday, 24 July 2004 03:23 (8 years ago) Permalink

"It's like this drone gene to appreciate stuff like that, the texture of it all, and either you have it, or you don't. "

OTM.

― latebloomer (latebloomer), Saturday, 24 July 2004 03:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

Of my many favorite things about them, one that doesn't get mentioned enough: Mo Tucker! One of my favorite drummers ever. Plus, I think she kind of invented indie-girl singing on "After Hours" and "I'm Sticking With You."

― spittle (spittle), Saturday, 24 July 2004 04:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

Mo Tucker gets more than enough attention.

― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 24 July 2004 12:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

Especially for those two songs.

― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 24 July 2004 12:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

I know a lot of people are going to hate me for this.

― Rockist Scientist, Saturday, 24 July 2004 12:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

But... but... she did that solo, as well! In fact, I saw her do one of them... (I'm Sticking With You, if memory serves, curse Orbit and her tequila shots) with Doug Yule in Seattle once!

Yup, they indeed did that. Good night, that.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 July 2004 12:54 (8 years ago) Permalink

This thread already exists:
Say something BORING about the Velvet Underground

hahahahahaha (i'm a stinker.)

-- scott seward (skotro...), July 23rd, 2004. (tracklink)

Damn, Scott, you stole my idea!

I just find it all rather unpleasant to listen to. It's badly recorded, the music is dirge-like and one chord, the lyrics are okay but often just devolve into repeating the same thing.

You don't have that gene, doglatin... oh, and you're a cunt for not liking them. ;-)

― Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Sunday, 25 July 2004 15:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

The invention of indie-girl singing is one of those little aspects of their sound and their legacy that I choose conveniently to ignore. The third album is pleasant and I love it, but in terms of what it's inspired, shit on it.

― Clarke B. (Clarke B.), Sunday, 25 July 2004 15:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

mo turner falls in that category of "every time someone cites her, they must allude to how she is never cited."

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 26 July 2004 00:35 (8 years ago) Permalink

tweed and the smell of pipe smoke.

― jack cole (jackcole), Monday, 26 July 2004 00:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

does mo turner own Turner Classic Movies? Bravo to her.

― Ian c=====8 (orion), Monday, 26 July 2004 02:15 (8 years ago) Permalink

she is also the author of the turner diaries!

― amateur!st (amateurist), Monday, 26 July 2004 02:29 (8 years ago) Permalink

People talk about their 'influence' as if it were like inherently bad, but the truth (ok, the truth to me) is that the best part about VU was their BIG IDEAS, and they could have inspired a lot of really wonderful things but people were too hung up on their most boring ideas (ie two chords and hipster posturing) that the legacy was tainted.

To create a listenable mix of R&B, noise, free jazz and POP that exists on the cutting edge is everything I've ever wanted to do as a musician. All of the infamous VU "ripoffs" have been sadly funkless and fearful of innovation

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Monday, 26 July 2004 03:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

what scares me most about this thread is that miccio ranked his favorite velvets albums EXACTLY THE SAME WAY THAT I DID!

that throws a MAJOR curve in my "miccio = anti-me" thesis, it does.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 26 July 2004 04:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

and oh yeah, not only do i unreservedly love the song "heroin," it blew me away upon my 1st hearing it and confirmed that the VU's greatness was for real & not just hype (cf bob dylan).

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 26 July 2004 04:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

It took me about 15 years to finally "get" the Velvets, and it happened rather suddenly, though I'd already heard most of their best material on the radio several times at that point. Even though I feel I "get" them now, I would stop short at saying all their albums or songs are essential. I like to pick and choose with them.

I find Cale irritating, btw.

Just get the damn Live '69 Vol. 1 album, if you get nothing else.

― Bimble (bimble), Monday, 26 July 2004 20:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

funny thing is, the first VU tune I ever heard was "Heroin" and I really liked it. I think they're quite good and I have their four albums, even though I don't listen to 'em that much.

― Gear! (Gear!), Monday, 26 July 2004 20:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

3 years pass...

the first 3 records are extraordinary. totally different to each other but equally ambitious, creative, entertaining... different layers of influence, new things to discover on each listen, all that.

― Charlie Howard, Monday, 30 July 2007 15:50 (5 years ago) Permalink

I find them quite depressing and they make me sleepy. I can't imagine getting rid of them, but whenever I think I'd like to hear them I only get through a couple songs.

― dean ge, Monday, 30 July 2007 15:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

i admit that i don't appreciate the songs when i'm not giving them their due attention. can't imagine them being anything other than annoying as background music, in truth.

― Charlie Howard, Monday, 30 July 2007 15:58 (5 years ago) Permalink

I like the VU quite a bit but the way they're often discussed sometimes mystifies me a bit too. It seems pretty obvious to me that they weren't at all the only or the first band in the 60s to combine the avant-garde or jazz with pop/rock, work with drones, work with feedback, write simple songs, or write realistic songs about drugs and urban life. Nor does it seem to me that what the VU did in these areas was somehow more advanced than what many others did, including more well-known and successful artists like the Beatles, Stones, Dylan, Hendrix, the Byrds, the Grateful Dead, and Neil Young/Crazy Horse. I don't really see the level of songcraft (in melody, rhythm, or arrangements) that went into a lot of Brill Building or Motown music expressed in Lou Reed's tunes.

That said, they had a distinctive sound and memorable songs that really work for me, especially on the first album.

― Sundar, Monday, 30 July 2007 16:30 (5 years ago) Permalink

It seems pretty obvious to me that they weren't at all the only or the first band in the 60s to combine the avant-garde or jazz with pop/rock, work with drones, work with feedback, write simple songs, or write realistic songs about drugs and urban life. Nor does it seem to me that what the VU did in these areas was somehow more advanced than what many others did, including more well-known and successful artists like the Beatles, Stones, Dylan, Hendrix, the Byrds, the Grateful Dead, and Neil Young/Crazy Horse.

Even though I love the Velvets, OTM. Except there's a glaring omission from yer list there (cough the Who cough "Anyway Anyhow Anywhere").

― Sara Sara Sara, Monday, 30 July 2007 16:35 (5 years ago) Permalink

"Heroin" is astonishing and timeless and i think if you reckon you could've "made it easily" yiou are likely deluding yourself. But i don't want to rule out the possibility that you r a genius.

― Frogman Henry, Monday, 30 July 2007 16:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

I think that using a viola as a rock instrument (and leaving out the bass) might have been the most interesting thing about the VU but they unfortunately dropped that after the 1st album.

2xpost Yes, The Who is another good example.

― Sundar, Monday, 30 July 2007 16:37 (5 years ago) Permalink

boring contrarianism.

― That one guy that hit it and quit it, Monday, 30 July 2007 16:38 (5 years ago) Permalink

boring contrarianism.

― rockapads, Monday, 30 July 2007 17:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

Hmmm, nope, I would say they pretty much were the first to do all of those things together and get it down onto record. But I'd happy to be corrected. (I often am.)

― Myonga Vön Bontee, Monday, 30 July 2007 19:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

5 years pass...

Hard to tell what the most basic VU thread is...I just watched Under Review. Nothing startling, and only Tucker and Yule are interviewed, but pretty good. For a band I'd count as one of my three or four favourite, and was really interested in a few years before I ever managed to get my hands on a record (thanks to Lillian Roxon), I have to admit I didn't know that Doug Yule sings "Candy Says" (I'd never even thought about it--it was like the vocal didn't have an actual person attached to it), or--this is embarrassing--that Tucker doesn't play on Loaded. Yule's a great interviewee, and the two main critics, Clinton Heylin and some guy I didn't know, are fine. (Christgau's in there a bit.) Some other guy foolishly calls "Sunday Morning" a poppy, feel-good song or something like that. First time I've ever seen the skull on the White Light cover.

― clemenza, Monday, 27 August 2012 02:42 (8 months ago) Permalink

dog latin thread

― buzza, Monday, 27 August 2012 02:52 (8 months ago) Permalink

Just noticed an ambiguous parenthetical in my post. Lillian Roxon's Rock Encyclopedia is what first got me interested in the Velvet Underground--she had nothing to do with me acquiring my first VU album, what with her being on the other side of the world and all.

― clemenza, Monday, 27 August 2012 02:56 (8 months ago) Permalink

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