Bands that are better 'in theory' than in reality

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This be a thread dedicated to the recitation of bands that you feel sound better in theory than they are when you actually listen to them. This can be due to band philosophy, their 'sound', personnel, past credentials, etc.

My winner in this category goes to Tribe Called Quest. Without a doubt, the hip-hop group I would like to like more than any other due to their general positivity, jazz samples, and low-key style, but when I listen to them I'm convinced that the concept of Tribe is much better than the reality of Tribe. Sadly, I find that their records are somewhat bland and forgettable, as opposed to, say Pharcyde, which I sort of see as their slightly more mischievous West Coast parallel.

King Kobra (King Kobra), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

for me, most of the time....Captain Beefheart

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

Faust (for me)

Joe (Joe), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

Wow, did you really just say Captain Beefheart? Are you sure you didn't mean The Faint?

Really? Captain Beefheart?

Donkey Dick, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

spacemen 3

peter smith (plsmith), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

Unfortunately, I would have to put Warren Zevon here too, although a few of his songs are absolutely killer.

King Kobra (King Kobra), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'll just go ahead and say Todd Rundgren.

Donkey Dick, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

all of them, duh

Sonny A. (Keiko), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:30 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'll second Beefheart. I've never heard a piece of his music that I liked as much as I should based on everything I've ever read about him. Especially with his supposed sonic proximity to Tom Waits, who is like one of my five favorite songwriters ever.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:32 (8 years ago) Permalink

Really? Captain Beefheart?

Um, yep...I give my copy of Trout Mask a spin every now and again...I really like some of it (Frownland esp.) but I've just never been able to totally dig it (not that I dislike it, but like the thread says I like the IDEA of Beefheart more than Beefheart usually...and I do like lots of Skin Graft/US Mapley type stuff too so it's not really the skronk that throws me)....

I have never heard The Faint....they are like a new punk/gothy type thing, right?

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:33 (8 years ago) Permalink

new order, the faint sound exactly like new order


beefheart, I could see that, I love him, but lately when I play those records, not getting as much out of them as I used to

chris besinger (chris besinger), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:35 (8 years ago) Permalink

(side discussion: the faint aren't nearly as upbeat or insightful as New Order, and their keyboard histrionics are far more dramatic and showmanlike than the straightforward New Order keyboard passages)

King Kobra (King Kobra), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'm gonna go with Tupac, even though Tupac wasn't a band.

Brandon Biondo (twinkiebots), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:39 (8 years ago) Permalink

The Faint, musically, sound like Technique-era NO a fair bit, but way way more goth. Overall I wouldn't compare the two.

Sonny A. (Keiko), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:42 (8 years ago) Permalink

it hurts to say it but: "the monks"

gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:42 (8 years ago) Permalink

Tangerine Dream

oops (Oops), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:43 (8 years ago) Permalink

I know this is gonna rub people the wrong way, but I think My Bloody Valentine is another one of my top picks for this field. I feel like I should love them, but I'd put them just-this-side-of-"eh". I prefer the in-many-ways comparable, but much "warmer" sounding Medicine. (who I am told, Ned hates)

King Kobra (King Kobra), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

Sigur Rós

Melissa W (Melissa W), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

i agree with beefheart insofar as TMR and even safe as milk are concerned. i like doc at the radar station soooooo much, though. thats the first one thats really made a lot of sense to me.

peter smith (plsmith), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

The Beatles

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

GWAR

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

Mogwai

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

The Beatles

it was only time before someone said this. so, care to explain your reasoning?

King Kobra (King Kobra), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 22:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

The Beatles

it was only time before someone said this. so, care to explain your reasoning?

"Yeah, IN THEORY I like listening to the musical recordings of ever made by human beings in the history of all time"

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

The Orb.

well, at the time anyway.

jed_ (jed), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

IN THEORY the Beatles are one of the greatest bands ever omg, in reality they are merely great, therefore they are better in theory.

Gear! (Gear!), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

DJ Shadow and RJD2

oops (Oops), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

I often wonder what The Beatles would've been like in an alternate universe where they were never so huge that they had to stop touring, Paul wasn't a controlling douchebag, John wasn't a weirdo asshole, Ringo got his props, and they didn't walk all over George's dick and let him write more of the songs.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

ha ha, in theory I feel like I should hate Shadow & rjd2 (& Amon Tobin also for that matter), but hotdang if I don't love that shit.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

George "I have transcended all your worldly common desires and will spend three decades telling you about it (Except that one song an album where I remind you I was a Beatle)" Harrison was a weirdo asshole too k thankx bye

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

otm that Amon Tobin is better in reality than in theory.

astroblaster (astroblaster), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, but he was my kinda weirdo asshole!

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

DJ SPOOKY HOLY SHIT

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

i guess there are different "theories" which can be applied to Shadow/RJ

oops (Oops), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

"i've got my mind set on you" was better than any beatles song

stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

It's weird, DJ Shadow makes me feel weird when he talks (like the way he drops the "ur" sound from the word records ['rekkids'] but no other words), like it should be all an act of ridiculous pretention (not saying it's not), but as soon as his shit comes on I have no arguments.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:11 (8 years ago) Permalink

He is weird though with making beats for MCs. Sometimes his productions for vocalists is fucking unbelievably badass (like Lifesavas "Emerge") and other times really bland (Latyrx "The Gathering Storm").

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

"i've got my mind set on you" was better than any beatles song

that was a cover, right? I have a hard time believing George Harrison would write about how it's gonna take a lot of money to do something, because money is a transitory, relatively valueless commodity. Om...

CeCe Peniston (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:15 (8 years ago) Permalink

The entire genre of ambient drum'n'bass. How come nobody got this right?

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:18 (8 years ago) Permalink

"i've got my mind set on you" was better than any beatles song

i'm not a big Beatles fan or anything...but C'MON!

M@tt He1geson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:19 (8 years ago) Permalink

Even before I knew they were George's songs, my favorite Beatles songs (with the exceptions of "Eleanor Rigby" and "A Day In The Life") have almost always been "Within You Without You" and "Something" and "As My Guitar Gently Weeps". But as the saying goes, I'm different.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

The idea of listening to Atari Teenage Riot is actually a lot better than the experience.

dog latin (dog latin), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:23 (8 years ago) Permalink

"got my mind set on you" is george's "i just called to say i love you"

oops (Oops), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:23 (8 years ago) Permalink

El-P. I like dirty-ass production. I like dudes-who've-obviously-done-way-too-much-LSD crazy-style rhyming. I like DIY/entrepeur shit. I like a shit ton of people on his label. But I still just can't get into his shit.

(Although I like him on that one apocalypse track at the end of Mr. Lif's album.)

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

ha ha I love that song but oops = OTM.

I can't say I agree with Dog Latin though.

nickalicious (nickalicious), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

Patti Smith.

Garibaldianne (Garibaldianne), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:24 (8 years ago) Permalink

the kinks for me

de, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

Medicine warmer than MBV? I mean, this is one of those personal-metaphor things that I probably have no right to get on anyone's case about (sorry), but in all of the traditional audio-engineering senses of that term, it is so totally totally the other way around: Medicine were at most points all about ear-laceratingly slashy treble-heavy guitars, as opposed to the sorta denser, rounder, mid-rangier hum of MBV. The original run of Medicine -- not counting that newest -- was damned frosty, in my opinion.

I feel weird posting that since (a) a certain Medicine-man reads this board, plus (b) obviously you know what you mean by "warm" and like Medicine better, which is fair and happy hallelujah. The only thing that kept me from every really loving the hell out of any whole Medicine album (and I got close with Shot Forth Self Living) was that there were always points where things lost their way a little bit, and wound up descending into an uncomfortable murk that I think was meant to be dubby but never quite got me, personally, feeling it. Also I liked it better when Brad sang (high female vox took the thin-treble quotient to almost uncomfortable levels!) and he didn't do it all so often.

nabiscothingy, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:27 (8 years ago) Permalink

But, umm, yeah, I'll take the band-comes-in bit of "One More" and the weird Sheryl-Crow-Shoegazer riff on "Something Goes Wrong" right up there with anything MBV did.

nabiscothingy, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:29 (8 years ago) Permalink

Somebody is bound to say Broken Social Scene, so I'll throw it out there (although personally I think they are great).

Barry Bruner (Barry Bruner), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 23:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

maybe it's these yank ears but my answer would be The Jam. I mean, all the elements are there... but for some reason it just hasn't clicked for me. To be fair, I wasn't that familiar with their catalogue prior to a couple of years ago. And I do find myself enjoying it more as of late. A grower, perhaps?

Will(iam), Saturday, 23 April 2005 00:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

yeah, Sonic Youth's a good one. Albums, anyways. Live is the only way it really works for me. I've always been way more into who influenced them and who they've influenced.

Will(iam), Saturday, 23 April 2005 00:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

I'd say the entire new generation of postpunk bands. Bringing back the spirit of postpunk is a good idea, but the new bands' songs just don't hold up the way Wire, The Cure or Magazine did back then.

Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 23 April 2005 00:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

Forgive me if they've been mentioned already, but I'm going to cite THROBBING GRISTLE here in as much as it's the ideas put forth by the band that were so significant rather than the actual execution. I was paging through "The Secret History of Rock" by Roni Sarig this week, and there was a great quote from Lou Barlow about TG about how they inspired him more to go out and make his own music more than they inspired him to listen to theirs, and that's pretty accurate, I'd say. I love that TG existed, and I so totally admire what they did and stood for and the manner in which they executed the idea, but to listen to their stuff? Not always that great an experience. Like I mentioned on another thread today, I saw a copy of their unweildly box set this week (containing twenty-four hours worth of recorded live material) at a 'reduced price' (though not reduced enough for my taste). I was tempted, but then I thought....would I ever actually listen to all of it? Or even enough of it to make it worth it?

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 23 April 2005 00:41 (8 years ago) Permalink

Negativland-- my new winner.

-- Vestigial Appendages, Esq. (doctorduc...), April 22nd, 2005.

escape from noise is pretty listenable...

latebloomer: But when the monkey die, people gonna cry. (latebloomer), Saturday, 23 April 2005 11:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

Guitar Wolf

Earl Nash (earlnash), Saturday, 23 April 2005 11:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

I have now come round to liking Eminem rather a lot, but I still think he's even better in theory.

ailsa (ailsa), Saturday, 23 April 2005 12:05 (8 years ago) Permalink

Philip Glass, and to a lesser extent, Steve Reich - I really love what Reich has done if the works are reduced to individual ideas, but I don't listen to my Reich albums much. Then again, I don't suppose Come Out is something anyone's meant to listen to often.

Deluxe (Damian), Saturday, 23 April 2005 12:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

HA HA LET'S LIST EVERY BAND THAT TRIED

The Sensational Sulk (sexyDancer), Saturday, 23 April 2005 13:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...

For the most part Cheap Trick. Although they have some really great moments that would make a very good 60 minute compilation, even their best albums are littered with filler and mediocrity. Yet, I am compelled to think of them as being better than they usually deliver, because of their sense of melody, aesthetics, and esp. their sense of humor.

Richard Wood Johnson, Monday, 13 August 2007 15:23 (5 years ago) Permalink

animal collective.

CharlieNo4, Monday, 13 August 2007 16:57 (5 years ago) Permalink

The Wilburys. I mean, they were great. But not as great as one might expect from such a league of stars.

Geir Hongro, Monday, 13 August 2007 19:28 (5 years ago) Permalink

marissa marchant

gershy, Monday, 13 August 2007 19:31 (5 years ago) Permalink

Experimental Audio Research; never actually liked any of their music at all.

mehlt, Monday, 13 August 2007 20:34 (5 years ago) Permalink

Animal Collective
Bowie
Deerhoof

I have an amazingly high number of listens recorded on my last.fm for these groups/artists. I'm drawn to their music, yet don't actually enjoy listening to it.

I'll bet there're a hundred more..

bassace, Monday, 13 August 2007 23:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

The guys that said GWAR a couple years ago were totally on.

And Manowar is the inverse, they are better in reality than they are in theory. They come across as ridiculous, but their stuff's pretty good.

Bill Magill, Tuesday, 14 August 2007 21:45 (5 years ago) Permalink

lightning bolt

-- 6335, Thursday, 24 June 2004 04:50 (3 years ago) Bookmark Link

I came here to post just this. Also, Comets On Fire.

Just got offed, Tuesday, 14 August 2007 21:49 (5 years ago) Permalink

DJ Spooky thirded. Also Third Eye Foundation.

Tuomas, Wednesday, 15 August 2007 10:19 (5 years ago) Permalink

every band ever

blueski, Wednesday, 15 August 2007 10:20 (5 years ago) Permalink

Bloc Party

Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 15 August 2007 10:21 (5 years ago) Permalink

Animal Collective would be great if their records weren't hideously produced.

Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 15 August 2007 10:22 (5 years ago) Permalink

Naked City. On paper they were going to become one of my teenage self's favourite bands but they're only half great, most of their covers are terrible, they're too slick and you can tell they're reading the sheet music esp. on the slower tracks. Needed more drama, more Spillane style atmosphere and some Mike Patton crooning.

ogmor, Wednesday, 15 August 2007 13:49 (5 years ago) Permalink

Television. Great sound of guitar and voice but especially the album "Marquee Moon" somehow seems dull to me. Too repetitive, not enough variation, too long.

alex in mainhattan, Wednesday, 15 August 2007 14:13 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yea I think that album is very stale, very boring. But I read about them and they sound great in print.

Mark Clemente, Wednesday, 15 August 2007 14:20 (5 years ago) Permalink

i burned out on marquee moon a few years back but listening to those eno demos and especially the live stuff kinda revived it for me. also, people pay too much attention to the guitars and not enough to the bass/drums - that's one killer rhythm section!

pretzel walrus, Wednesday, 15 August 2007 14:22 (5 years ago) Permalink

I was wrong about most of the ones I listed except Zappa. Although I'm not sure the theory's so great there.

Sundar, Wednesday, 15 August 2007 17:59 (5 years ago) Permalink

Naked City OTM. Teenage me really tried with them too. "Too slick" sums it up, pretty much.

Funkadelic... sometimes.

Alan N, Wednesday, 15 August 2007 18:47 (5 years ago) Permalink

It's funny how many of the groups listed here are this way for me, and how hard it is to admit. Yes, Naked City is definitely one of them. Fuck it - Lightning Bolt, too!

The entire genre of ambient drum'n'bass. How come nobody got this right?

OTM.

A few others: Jeru the Damaja, Suicidal Tendencies, Queen, Bob Dylan (not trolling, not saying he isn't good, just never been able to get into him at all), Red Hot Chili Peppers - wait scratch that I don't like them in theory either.

A few groups getting a lot of hype here recently that I really want to like more than I do: Watain, Deathspell Omega, Jesu, and Battles.

rockapads, Thursday, 16 August 2007 03:19 (5 years ago) Permalink

TV On the Radio (I still think they might live up to that theory, though...they're getting closer)

Tape Store, Thursday, 16 August 2007 03:31 (5 years ago) Permalink

this thread is another great read.

i live in Los Angeles and three bands that are worshiped here but don't like are the Red Hot Chili Peppers, No Doubt and fucking Sublime.

don't even like those bands in theory so back to the ilm universe, will have to go with Animal Collective. i have tried and tried and tried, i just don't get it.

Bee OK, Thursday, 16 August 2007 03:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

What do you dislike about AC? Is it the melodies or the way they present those melodies?

Tape Store, Thursday, 16 August 2007 03:49 (5 years ago) Permalink

Negativland OTM x 1000

Mr. Snrub, Thursday, 16 August 2007 03:51 (5 years ago) Permalink

I really liked Feels, and kinda liked Sung Tongs, but the rest of their discography falls under this category for me. Just didn't live up to my expectations. I also tried to get into Black Dice, and failed.

Yeah - another vote for Negativland OTM

rockapads, Thursday, 16 August 2007 03:53 (5 years ago) Permalink

i agree w/ blueski, "every band ever"

but i agree with Bee OK too -- sublime is especially worthless...

and john cage is a good example of this too. his concepts were incredible but i almost feel like his music suffered from his open mindedness

bstep, Thursday, 16 August 2007 05:32 (5 years ago) Permalink

ratatat.

Jordan Sargent, Thursday, 16 August 2007 06:38 (5 years ago) Permalink

Animal Collective would be great if their records weren't hideously produced.

-- Scik Mouthy, Wednesday, 15 August 2007 10:22 (Yesterday) Link

This one confuses me as all of their albums seem to have radically different production style.

I can see saying Animal Collective though. I love their use of technology, the tribalism, the mystery, the fact that for the longest time you couldn't make out what they were saying, the unconventional melodies, their approach of the halfway point between noise and music. But I wish they didn't have to be so cutesy or cloying about it sometimes. I think they occasionally suffer from that indie rock "childhood wondermint" fixation that I hate to much.

filthy dylan, Thursday, 16 August 2007 08:17 (5 years ago) Permalink

I like Naked City all right, though it's nowhere near my favourite Zorn project. I'm not sure they'd be better if they were more brutal or 'rougher.' I think the aesthetic is more one of cartoonish mania (rather than brutal chaos or something) and the 'slickness' (to the extent that I can see it) works with this. The production is a little dated though, if that's all you guys are referring to.

I really disagree about Cage but I generally like him more for his relatively 'conventionally' written pieces than for the most extreme conceptual chance music. (In some of those cases, I'm not really sure the concepts are as interesting as some people make them out to be.)

Sundar, Thursday, 16 August 2007 13:17 (5 years ago) Permalink

Manic Street Preachers

henry s, Thursday, 16 August 2007 13:20 (5 years ago) Permalink

x-post

The slickness about Naked City that gets me is on tracks like Inside Straight which is all one eyebrow cocked sleepy arsehole lounge and completely at odds with all the intensity of the cartoon stuff like "Thrash Jazz Assassin", "Kaoru", "Punk China Doll" with the F-Zero X guitar and Taz in Tazmania vocals. I like Grand Guignol much more than the others I've heard.

ogmor, Thursday, 16 August 2007 16:16 (5 years ago) Permalink

The contrast is what makes it work for me! Like a WB character whistling and sauntering just before getting pounced or having an anvil fall on his or her head.

Sundar, Thursday, 16 August 2007 16:22 (5 years ago) Permalink

The contrast works within tracks where it rampages through styles at pace, but esp on the first album there are whole tracks of this languid politeness that are awful. What made me think of Mike Patton upthread was that tracks like Sweet Charity from California are an invigorated take on a sound similar to some of the terrible Naked City tracks where it feels really by-numbers.

ogmor, Thursday, 16 August 2007 17:11 (5 years ago) Permalink

sundar -- could you recommend some good 'conventional' cage? thanks

bstep, Thursday, 16 August 2007 19:24 (5 years ago) Permalink

Stars

daavid, Thursday, 16 August 2007 19:28 (5 years ago) Permalink

5 years pass...

Band of Susans may be the ultimate example of this for me. By all rights, I should like them: 80s noise/drone guitar rock with a post-minimal pedigree (Chatham proteges no less), pop hooks in the classic Amerindie style. Somehow, nothing seems to come together right on the records, though: The cheesy 80s production with giant gated drums might work if this were spare new wave/postpunk but it seems to work so strongly against what they were going for. The rhythm section is plodding and uninspired, just a constant predictable backbeat. I find Poss's voice completely unappealing. The guitars drone but never quite seem to deliver much in terms of rich textures or innovative sounds. They never seem to really nail a pop hook like REM or Husker Du or, say, the Mary Chain or MBV could. ("Hard Light" comes closest.)

EveningStar (Sund4r), Wednesday, 12 September 2012 05:18 (8 months ago) Permalink

sund4r -- could you recommend some good 'conventional' cage? thanks

I never answered this! I don't know if this person is still reading this board but:
In a Landscape
Dream
Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano

are a good place to start.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Wednesday, 12 September 2012 05:21 (8 months ago) Permalink

their general positivity, jazz samples, and low-key style

centibutt hz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 12 September 2012 05:24 (8 months ago) Permalink

OK, so this artist, right. He's like a mix of Run-D.M.C. and Johnny Cash....
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centibutt hz (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 12 September 2012 05:28 (8 months ago) Permalink

Ha, I actually mentioned Band of Susans earlier on this thread.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Wednesday, 12 September 2012 05:40 (8 months ago) Permalink

Peel Sessions is the best recorded thing that's out there for them IIRC.

everything, Wednesday, 12 September 2012 06:51 (8 months ago) Permalink

I never answered this! I don't know if this person is still reading this board but:
In a Landscape
Dream
Sonatas and Interludes for Prepared Piano

are a good place to start.

Also, The Seasons.

EveningStar (Sund4r), Wednesday, 12 September 2012 18:47 (8 months ago) Permalink


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