Olivia Tremor Control (Update July 2012 -- Bill Doss RIP)

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Listening to Dusk At Cubist Castle right now for the first time in three years, maybe more, and enjoying the hell out of it. OTC might be the only 60s-leaning band from the late 90s to actually be underrated. These are good songs -- not quite complete, which works against them in any kind of pop canonization sense (too fragmented to cover), but the way they flow together makes for a great album.

― Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 23:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

I prefer [i]Black Foliage[/i] but agree with yr thoughts. I expect to be taken to task for this, but they are one of my favorite bands.

― Alex Pittman (Alex Pittman), Tuesday, 22 June 2004 23:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

Does anyone actually understand the Black Foliage "concept"? My view was always if something is that difficult to listen to, at the bare minimum it should be involving on some theoretical level...

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 00:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

hmmm ... is "black foliage" really that difficult to listen to?? i think it's no more difficult than "dusk at cubist castle", or a the plunderphonics compilation or "slanted and enchanted".

i don't think they were underrated but at the same time i don't know why there was such an OTC backlash. certainly some of my fave critics shat on them ... maybe they're not such big byrds fans?? (the critics, that is - i always thought the beach boys comparisons were a red herring)

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 00:10 (8 years ago) Permalink

Well, I specifically meant their musique concrete. Not exactly elevator music, that...

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 00:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

I think the OTC backlash had a lot to do with being associated with the rest of their sub-par E6 comrades. I don't know about being underrated, though; most people seem to rate them pretty highly (AMG & Pitchfork among many others.)

― Ian c=====8 (orion), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 00:19 (8 years ago) Permalink

BTW, to be clear, I really like OTC -- and appreciated their ambition quite a bit. I was just always of the opinion that Black Foliage's pop tunes were stronger, but its musique concrete/plunderphonics/noise stuff was a little harder to take -- sonically, anyway. I was simply wondering if anyone here understood the concept. Or could follow it that way.

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 00:46 (8 years ago) Permalink

Well, there's that one melody that keeps popping up throughout it all. I think the instrumental/collage stuff was built on variations/deconstructions of that, for the most part. The liner notes are pretty detailed but very hard to read (small, squiggly font on black background.)

― Ian c=====8 (orion), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 00:49 (8 years ago) Permalink

And, as I recall, confusing...

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 01:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

I found the Circulatory System CD more challenging a listen than Black Foliage, but follows the same principles (central theme, etc.) Isn't there a new one do this year?

― Kate Silver (Kate Silver), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 01:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

I think OTC was among the best bands of the '90s, and DUsk at Cubist Castle is one of the best debut albums of all time. I'm very fond of the spin-off bands too.

― John Bullabaugh (John Bullabaugh), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 01:13 (8 years ago) Permalink

The Peel Sessions CD basically proves that better production would have done this band a world of good.

― dlp9001, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 01:34 (8 years ago) Permalink

They put on one pretty good live show I saw and one pretty dull one. Well well. Like 'em better in the end than Neutral Milk Hotel, though.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 01:37 (8 years ago) Permalink

black foliage is astonishing, but i never liked cubist castle, and I'm not sure why. I've bought it a couple times too thinking that maybe I'll like it this time, but it never registers.

― kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 01:38 (8 years ago) Permalink

i like both dusk at cubist castle alright, but i prefer black foliage by a mile. i will have to get the peel sessions cd now. i thought their production, at least on black foliage, was pretty well done. was DaCC one of those E6 albums supposedly done all on 4-tracks? was BF??

― common_person (common_person), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 01:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

i think the concrete parts on black foliage are easier to listen to but *only* because they're not lumped together into 20 minutes of zzzzzz

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 02:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

Dusk at Cubist Castle is one of the worst albums released by any of the Elephant 6.

― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 04:45 (8 years ago) Permalink

I still listen to them and think they're a shining beacon above all the retro indie crap of that era.. Actually I only have Black Foliage, but it just occurred to me what a great & imaginative name "Dusk at Cubist Castle" is, so maybe I will listen to that sometime.

― Sonny A. (Keiko), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 05:01 (8 years ago) Permalink

Dusk at Cubist Castle is one of the worst albums released by any of the Elephant 6

yes, but WHYYYYYY????

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 05:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

The most incredibly grating voice; never finding anything to do with the melodies on the rare occasions they find a good one.

― David Allen (David Allen), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 05:09 (8 years ago) Permalink

On the live front, Circulatory System was a five-alarm surprise last time I saw them: hard and direct, guitars cranked in the foreground, near-screamed vocals that gave their utopian lean a wired, strung-out sense of urgency. Made me very excited by the prospect of a new album, but who knows.

It's hard to overstate how single-handedly Olivia changed Athens from a sleepy legacy town to a kinetic dreamscape, at least for a little while. It always pains me when their stock slides cuz of the glut that followed.

― Andy, Wednesday, 23 June 2004 05:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

most incredibly grating voice; never finding anything to do with the melodies on the rare occasions they find a good one

yeah those are pretty hard ones to defend. i guess for the first i'd say the human voice grates by its very nature. for the second ... well you've got me. i can remember how most of their songs go but i can't remember how a single one ends!! (don't they all end in an abrupt cymbal crash or what sounds like everyone just getting bored or tired and spontaneously stopping??)

― vahid (vahid), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 05:28 (8 years ago) Permalink

It seems that they typically start fucking around with theremins (that bleed into the next song).

― Alex Pittman (Alex Pittman), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 12:51 (8 years ago) Permalink

Or something else that produces a weird sound.

― Alex Pittman (Alex Pittman), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 12:52 (8 years ago) Permalink

There's a song on Black Foliage (track 4 or 5, I think) that sounds exACTly like Emitt Rhodes...

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 13:50 (8 years ago) Permalink

Kate - the next Circulatory System record comes out sometime later this year. According to their publicity company, anyway, and keep in mind that they've been pushing back the release date for a year or so, so who knows?

― Raymond Cummings (Raymond Cummings), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

i haven't heard to the first Circ Sys record since the two or three listens after i bought it (i should break it out again, though) but i really like Age of the Sun and the EP that came before it. that's where all the great pop moments of OTC went. anyone seen The Sunshine Fix live?

― common_person (common_person), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:19 (8 years ago) Permalink

Sunshine Fix sucked bad live. Circulatory System, on the other hand, ruled the show I saw them play. SF was Bill Doss with a backing band of ringers. They were all these older metal dudes, which is fine, but they contrasted quite radically with Doss' sunshiney McGuinn Grannie glasses vibe. I think Sunshine Fix are bland and fabricated, whereas Circulatory System seems like a band of friends. I'm excited about a new album. I like the remix of the Circ System album that Will Hart put out in a spray-painted self released edition on the tour.

― Sean Witzman (trip maker), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:32 (8 years ago) Permalink

ha, weird. i wonder why he used "older metal dudes" for his band. has ruston finally been depopulated? or maybe he was trying to get away from his roots. "you were born an e6-er, you'll die an e6-er!"

― common_person (common_person), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 14:48 (8 years ago) Permalink

I am told the Sunshine Fix album is horribly bad; the stacks and stacks of used copies laying around Amoeba seem to bear this out.

― kyle (akmonday), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 17:56 (8 years ago) Permalink

i didn't buy the sunshine fix album for $2 yesterday.

― Ian c=====8 (orion), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:19 (8 years ago) Permalink

but did you like any of OTC's stuff?

― common_person (common_person), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:21 (8 years ago) Permalink

yeah, i love black foliage and think dusk @ cubist castle is just fine!

― Ian c=====8 (orion), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:39 (8 years ago) Permalink

why didn't you buy the sunshine fix album then?

-already heard the album and didn't like it
-was told not to buy album
-didn't have $2
-didn't actually have opportunity to purchase album (was just being cheeky)
-actually bought album for $1, or $3 or whatever
-?

― common_person (common_person), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:44 (8 years ago) Permalink

i had heard not very good things about it, and i was already getting a Black Sabbath album and a Meat Puppets album. Theoretically I could go back and get it (i might go pick up the new Sonic Youth anyway.)

― Ian c=====8 (orion), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:47 (8 years ago) Permalink

curiosity satisfied.

nah, it just sounded to me like you were making a value judgement and saying it wasn't even worth $2, but i would be pretty surprised if someone who liked black foliage wouldn't find age of the sun worth the price of a subway ride. i mean it's kinda short since the last track is a 20 min wank, but still

― common_person (common_person), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:53 (8 years ago) Permalink

the music tapes put on a funny show but i couldn't see myself putting $$$ down for their record(s).

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:58 (8 years ago) Permalink

(when i saw the music tapes it was like 60-80% OTC).

― gygax! (gygax!), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

ian, which meat puppets? do you have the first one? that is awesome and no-wave esque.

I like Olivia Trmoer Control I don't know why there is so much hate for them and so much love for Disco Inferno. Besides them being not as good and being not British and having many 60s melodies and stuff.

― artdamages (artdamages), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 18:59 (8 years ago) Permalink

20 minutes of wank sounds appealing to me.

x-post to chris: i got Up On The Sun ($3!) and if i go back, i'll probably get In A Car, cuz that one's $2... used CD sales are the best.

― Ian c=====8 (orion), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

godamn, all the used cd stores i go to sell stuff in the 6-8$ range. i need a turntable. meat puppets are groove-y.

― artdamages (artdamages), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:03 (8 years ago) Permalink

where's this sale? please say it's near the new school so i can stop by on the way home from work

― common_person (common_person), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

I love the Jerry Garcia guitar-wank on Up on the Sun. 20 mins of Sunshine Fix wank, I'm not so sure...

― Sean Witzman (trip maker), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:07 (8 years ago) Permalink

nooo.. i'm home for the summer; the sale's in the beautiful/boring suburb of Warwick, RI.

― Ian c=====8 (orion), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

damn.

don't think noodley wank, think massive reverberating, decaying chord wank. like, it's a cool sound, but i rarely need 20 minutes of it.

― common_person (common_person), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:16 (8 years ago) Permalink

i like drones!

― Ian c=====8 (orion), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:19 (8 years ago) Permalink

But are they the ones you're looking for?

― Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:20 (8 years ago) Permalink

then you'll love this, it's a static wall of vocal harmony (though you can only tell it's vocal because of the first 4 seconds of the track) treated with reverb.

― common_person (common_person), Wednesday, 23 June 2004 19:31 (8 years ago) Permalink

Okay the circulatory system album I just listened to (the self titled one) is almost as good as Black Foliage. How did they slip through without more attention? Do people think of this Elephant 6 sound as kind of passe now or something?

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 29 June 2004 19:22 (8 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...

Okay, The OTC's second album has this song called 'California Demise' on it which has received glowing reports on most of the album's reviews. Trouble is...

...oh, just have a listen to Dukes Of Stratosphear's 'Shiny Cage' and you'll see.

Shameless or completely accidental?

― You've Got Scourage On Your Breath (Haberdager), Sunday, 7 January 2007 23:27 (6 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 57 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

what the hell

RIP

― Brad C., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:06 (9 months ago) Permalink

Terrible.

― Trip Maker, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:08 (9 months ago) Permalink

WTF

― Dunn O)))))))) (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:08 (9 months ago) Permalink

RIP

don't know what else to say, OTC meant so much to me

RIP

― Euler, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:08 (9 months ago) Permalink

that first album and a bunch of the EPs are really good. stunned ... dude was so young!

― Dunn O)))))))) (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:10 (9 months ago) Permalink

Second album is also brilliant...lots of good songs on those Sunshine Fix records, too. Fuck.

― cwkiii, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:12 (9 months ago) Permalink

this is very sad / RIP. they played live in portugal 2 months ago or something and i couldn't make it :/

^^ even though i don't listen to them nowadays, 'dusk at...' and 'black foliage' were on constant rotation when i was 18 or something...

― rusty_allen, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:12 (9 months ago) Permalink

aw what the fuck. that's awful. just saw them in New York last fall. one of my favorite bands when I was in college radio. RIP.

― dmr, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:14 (9 months ago) Permalink

I saw them last Thursday ... they did a great set, no breaks between songs, somehow keeping everything going while swapping instruments all over the stage ... he looked and sounded fine that night.

― Brad C., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:15 (9 months ago) Permalink

^They played at KCOU my freshman year, I was standing with them in the listening room while they played. This really sucks.
xpost to DMR

― Trip Maker, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:16 (9 months ago) Permalink

RIP. Been listening to Black Foliage loads again recently, that record means so much to me.

― Gavin, Leeds, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:18 (9 months ago) Permalink

RIP.

I loved this band for so long. Big time RIP. So sad.

― Emperor Cos Dashit (Adam Bruneau), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:20 (9 months ago) Permalink

oh my god. horrible. RIP.

― Merdeyeux, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:21 (9 months ago) Permalink

ah fuck

― puff puff post (uh oh I'm having a fantasy), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:22 (9 months ago) Permalink

way too young

― pun lovin criminal (polyphonic), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:31 (9 months ago) Permalink

damn, dude was standing in front of me during dirty projectors set. this is crazy.

was P4K the last show they played?

― tauheed & cambria (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:54 (9 months ago) Permalink

Brad C. just said he saw them last Thursday.
This had to have been an accident or something, right?
Fuck this.

― Trip Maker, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 17:57 (9 months ago) Permalink

:( rip. Loved OTC.

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 18:03 (9 months ago) Permalink

This really is awful news. Black Foliage was a revelation and a really influential album for me back in my lolcollege days. RIP

― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 18:09 (9 months ago) Permalink

I saw OTC a few times and love them, but I think one thing that'll really stick with me is the Elephant 6 Holiday Surprise doing an epic wandering 'Enlightenment' to close their ATP set, starting on the stage, visiting the middle of the crowd for a while, then leading everyone Panned Piper style through the venue to finish off outside.

― Merdeyeux, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 18:15 (9 months ago) Permalink

x-post - Same. I saw them play at South Street Seaport in the late 90s and they were amazing. Very sad.

― (✿◠‿◠) (ENBB), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 18:16 (9 months ago) Permalink

Poor guy. Spoke to him two years ago and he was so energised and upbeat about the future. RIP.

― Get wolves (DL), Tuesday, 31 July 2012 18:27 (9 months ago) Permalink

Loved this dude and the band for 10 years now RIP

― calstars, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 18:27 (9 months ago) Permalink

this band changed music for me and my friends, and to feel so close to such people you dont know personally is incredible. some of my friends even had the pleasure of meeting bill and seeing him perform. gone way too young. rest peacefully.

― jumpskins, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 18:42 (9 months ago) Permalink

a little more information:
http://onlineathens.com/breaking-news/2012-07-31/olivia-tremor-controls-bill-doss-dead-43

― Brad C., Tuesday, 31 July 2012 19:24 (9 months ago) Permalink

People will be listening to those OTC records for decades to come. Timeless.
RIP

― kornrulez6969, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 19:44 (9 months ago) Permalink

Henry Owings's eulogy

http://www.chunklet.com/index.cfm?section=blogs&ID=731

― Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 19:52 (9 months ago) Permalink

ugh what a bummer. RIP.

― tylerw, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 19:57 (9 months ago) Permalink

Jumping Fences, a great George Harrison song

― Dr X O'Skeleton, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 21:47 (9 months ago) Permalink

yeah OTC actually did a final secret jam in reds on that last night of the Mangum ATP, and had members of Sun Ra on stage with them doing the same track again - so a lovely way to cap off the event.

very sad news indeed.

― Jamie_ATP, Tuesday, 31 July 2012 22:41 (9 months ago) Permalink

love this song he wrote and performed on the last apples in stereo album:

http://youtu.be/4nT4ZZhQWdI

― Moreno, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 00:32 (9 months ago) Permalink

bill was the best, olivia tremor control was the best

RIP

― the late great, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 01:02 (9 months ago) Permalink

long live 1996

― the late great, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 01:05 (9 months ago) Permalink

Very, very sad to hear about this

― Nhex, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 02:18 (9 months ago) Permalink

This is awful! Just saw them play in Williamsburg not too long ago. They're one of my favorites.

― Evan, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 17:24 (9 months ago) Permalink

Memorial details announced:

Saturday, August 4
2PM-4PM
The Fabulous 40 Watt Club
285 West Washington St.
Athens, GA

In lieu of flowers, the family asks that you make donations to Nuci's Space, a local musician support & resource center.

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:36 (9 months ago) Permalink

http://www.nuci.org/

― Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:38 (9 months ago) Permalink

rip :(

dacd is a classic.

― sonderangerbot, Wednesday, 1 August 2012 19:43 (9 months ago) Permalink

via reddit:

[–]KingOfWickerPeople 19 points 1 day ago
I am one of the EMTs who responded to this 911 call. I had never heard of Bill Doss at the time. I almost swallowed my gum when I saw his name on Reddit. I guess I'll have to check out his music now. Sorry for your loss, guys.

[–]deutschschafer 3 points 1 day ago
woah holy shit really? do you know anything about what happened to him to lead to his death?

[–]KingOfWickerPeople 21 points 1 day ago
Because of the ongoing investigation and privacy laws, I can't disclose details. He appeared to have gone peacefully. He died with his guitar in his hands. I thought you guys would appreciate knowing that.

― Evan, Thursday, 2 August 2012 02:22 (9 months ago) Permalink

jesus. that's not cool.

― Call Surgeon General C. Everett Koop. Poo-poo-pa-doop. (stevie), Thursday, 2 August 2012 06:52 (9 months ago) Permalink

find that guy and strip him of his license imo

― steven fucking tyler (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 2 August 2012 12:17 (9 months ago) Permalink

beginning to wonder if that's just some douche on the internet being a dick now, tbh

― Call Surgeon General C. Everett Koop. Poo-poo-pa-doop. (stevie), Thursday, 2 August 2012 12:39 (9 months ago) Permalink

Yeah that strikes me as straight trolling.

― Ned Raggett, Thursday, 2 August 2012 12:42 (9 months ago) Permalink

I think there's a greater chance of that than some EMT all being like, fuck hipaa, these rock fans deserve to know.

― how's life, Thursday, 2 August 2012 12:42 (9 months ago) Permalink

unfortunately yeah i have known a lot of professionals who didn't take confidentiality seriously at all

― steven fucking tyler (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 2 August 2012 12:46 (9 months ago) Permalink

OTOH, reddit

― steven fucking tyler (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Thursday, 2 August 2012 12:46 (9 months ago) Permalink

Yeah I was skeptical as well, but who knows.

― Evan, Thursday, 2 August 2012 13:05 (9 months ago) Permalink

just ban reddit, imho, its the only safe response

― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Thursday, 2 August 2012 13:26 (9 months ago) Permalink

3 weeks pass...

― emo mcgee vs ricky hitler (Merdeyeux), Friday, 24 August 2012 01:22 (9 months ago) Permalink

Thanks, this was touching.

― Evan, Friday, 24 August 2012 13:25 (9 months ago) Permalink

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