Suede

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classic or dud
search and destroy

i can't believe this one hasn't been done yet.

gareth, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I agree, Gareth - I've meant to do it myself. But forgive me for saying that C/D and S/D may not be the most interesting approach. Even people who hate the sound of Suede (and their number is legion) may well agree that they were 'significant'. So - I think there's a discussion to be had that's not particularly about how much we like / dislike them (and I'm sure your contribution will be grate).

the pinefox, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

It's been done enough in other threads, though.

I would've liked their 2nd album lots if it weren't so damn over the top AND stupid. Brett Anderson should not trill. From what I've heard after that rekkid, he hasn't improved much. The music was quite agreeable, though (if a bit grandiose and grandiose).

David Raposa, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I heard Brett sing unaccompanied once, GAWD was it ever funny!!! Unlike Bernard Butler's solo 'songs', which are just so fucking stupid and boring that they retrospectively put me off the first two Suede albums, never mind the recent ones which are fucking stupid and boring but almost funny. "Wild Ones" and "Stay Together" are great though!

dave q, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

anyone here care to suggest that brett has ever written a good lyric?

Alan Trewartha, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Did "Still Life" rip off Ravel? I have the song sorta stuck in my head now, and I SWEAR there was an obvious classical music motif/movement they ripped off outright from some really obvious source.

David Raposa, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

If anyone dares suggest Brett can write a good lyric, I will laugh at them. Here's how you write a Suede song, throw the words "nuclear" and "shaking" and "machine" into every single verse, the more inexplicable the chorus the better.

That all being said, Suede are both classic and dud. Suede with Bernie were absolutely fantastic (despite godawful production), dogmanstar was one of my favorite albums for ages. Then Bernie left. Brett's voice has gotten continually worse (which would've happened with or without Bernie, just very convenient it happened when it did), and the song structures are not as good. They've become a parody of themselves. Though the dance mix of Everything Will Flow is fantastic.

Search: The first two albums, Stay Together EP

Destroy: Neil Codling.

Ally, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

What Ally said, 'cept I actually like the production on the first two records.

Andy, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I really liked "on the high wire, dressed in a leotard/there wobbles one hell of a retard." And "he writes the line wrote down my spine/It says 'oh do you believe in love there?' " always gave me a little shiver. So go ahead and laugh, Ally and Alan, I can take it. I'm with you on everything else you said, Ally.

Arthur, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I'm not really that familiar with them, just the really popular songs that get played at Britpop nights, like "Trash." One of those bands that rip off their predecessors (Bowie) so well that I can't help but enjoy them -- but wouldn't spend much money on them, either.

But they do a cover of Elvis Costello's "Shipbuilding" that I absolutely love, probably more so than the original. It's shorter, less subtle, and very glam, but great because of that .. check it out, if you're a Suede afficionado.

Chris, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

DESTROY ALL RECORDS BY SUEDE YOU EVER COME ACROSS

alex in mainhattan, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Destroy: Neil Codling.

Most unfair, he's left the band too. ;-) I always appreciated his Louche Bastard nature on stage.

Anyway, I'm hardly neutral in this, as I fired up the Suede fan mailing list six years back and have stuck with it ever since. They've definitely had their ups and downs, but I still like 'em -- still, the new album really does need to do better than the last. Right now I'm looking forward to the DVD video collection, and they just played in Portugal and apparently did a great job.

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

You need the word "animal" too, Ally.

I think : Bernard-era - not very good at all. Bad production, bad Bowie impersonation from Anderson and as everyone agrees, mainly dire words. "To the Birds" (B-side of The Drowners) is ace though.

"Coming Up" - similar production, slightly worse songs, a few good hooks - overall the sound of wheels spinning.

"Head Music" - Their best. Inessential, but likeable.

As for Pinefox's question about significance - I'd say not, at least not in any definition of 'significance' that I recognize. They were/are a competent glam-rock band for the 90's who failed to transcend their all-too-obvious influences (Bowie/Steve Harley/Roxy).

Dr. C, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I love them. Even their b-sides collection is ace. "Head Music" is their worst tho, in my opinion. I hope there's a new one soon, and hope it's better than "Head Music".

Sean, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

A couple of observations. David their second album is great precisely because it's over the top, grandiose and stupid. If this is the sound of a band falling apart then more bands should do it. It's one of Elton John's favourites, which ordinarily would be enough to bury it in lava but I'm with Reg on this one.

The beautiful ones has the best lyrics of any song written in the 90's.

Billy Dods, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I'm back to say their debut may be one of my favorite albums ever. Love the third one, too.

Anyone heard Bernard's solo LP? It was so boring and bland I wanted to fling it in the garbage; traded it in for a couple bucks instead.

Sean, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

His solo LPs are terrible, why did he do that? He can't sing you know.

Ally, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

He actually carried off fairly well live, but that was an unplugged show and he wasn't straining very much. But yes, when I first heard him sing, I thought it was a bit of a reach...

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Hardcore Suede fans tend to = dud though, I know a few and they're embarassing.

DG, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I see, you hate me, DG. *cries*

Ned Raggett, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Not you, you silly Raggetty person. People who I know who sign their emails "The one and only trash pop slut", that kind of thing.

DG, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Suede were great. My 90s band. Since I missed Moz/Marr & Co in the 80s, Suede had to compensate... Awesome live, if you dig that kind of "You love us and We know it" performances. Meeting them was great. Brett chatted up my girlfriend, and I chatted up Brett. Those were lovely times. I really do believe it is one of the best examples of "love em or hate em" one can think of.
I never played "Head Music" in its entirety, note. But the singles up to and including "She's in fashion" are great. And cd1 of "Lullabies", obviously. And "Stay Together"... Is better than "Whatever"!

Simon, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Back in the day I was a downright slavering fanatic, which seems a bit sad in retrospect. Their first four or five singles were absolutely flawless, with nary a dud on them. Everything else up through and including Comiing Up has tended to be patchy, though there's still some good songs to be found.

That said, Head Music was the absolute end for me. It was painfully dull, and the lyrics were so beyond the pale it just seemed ludicrous to keep listening. I tried liking it (in fact I still sort of like Can't Get Enough), but in the end I've lost all affection for them.

Still, I'd probably get the dvd if it wasn't Region 2 encoding.

Nicole, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Suede, the Bauhaus of the 90s (the lyrics, the bowie-isms, the hysteria?, maybe better on the music side, but then Brett&co didn't record a standard like Bela Lugosi's Dead...

erik, Wednesday, 31 October 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Insignificant. The fake-gay flip-side of Oasis. But as with Oasis capable of some great songs. I like 'Animal Nitrate', for that tagged- on wank-solo, 'Saturday Night' and 'Beautiful Ones'. Also liked: those hilarious Brett love-handles and Neil Codling was just a classic beautiful "me, I'm very bored" English boy.

Omar, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

significant. wow, i get to disagree with Omar! now, i typed a fairly long answer to this, which seems to have disappeared. so a truncated answer will suffice.

i agree with Ally that they became a parody, well rather a facsimile of themselves around Coming Up

i disagree with Ally saying this is a bad thing. For me Coming Up is the best album they did. it has an ease, an effortless, like the pressure to be grandiose a la DMS had been lifted. By The Sea, The Chemistry Between Us absoultely superb. Beautiful Ones and Trash great singles. i like the spangly shinyness of this album, which wasn't present on the earlier stuff. in this way i like to think of it as an anglo Hit To Death In The Future Head. Ilike the fact that Bernard had gone by this point. the adding of Codling - a good move. it is suede being themselves. a parody? yes, possibly. i want to say 'trite in a good way' here. i want to say Bretts singing is very good on this album.

to be honest, this is the only one i play regularly. but Dog Man Star very good too. in places. Wild Ones, New Generation, 2 of us in particular. daddys speeding too. it is grandiose, but i think they aimed high, and only partially succeeded. still, some great stuff on there though.

they seem to have escaped the 90s pretty much unscathed though. in comparison to their contemporaries anyway. but then, who are their contemporaries. surely we're not suggesting blur, supergrass and oasis are we? i do hope not. Pulp, yes maybe. but they have become too closely identified with Different Class. they are unable to escape that moment, it signifies a moment too closely. post DC they have been dirgeful.

i am interested in whether the pinefox is a Suede fan. this seems unlikely, but then his liking of oasis and non-love of nick drake was also surprising.

gareth, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

How were they significant, Gareth? They didn't change anything, for better or worse. They didn't do anything which hadn't been done (better) before. You might say they were very good, not that I agree, but significant? No.

Dr. C, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I find them well-nigh unbearable now. Dog Man Star is a record I honestly don't think I could ever physically sit through again, even for money. Honestly, there's fuck-all difference between them and Placebo. Isn't glamour and decadence meant to be intelligent and fierce and surprising? Brett Anderson seemed like he'd gone and bought a Decadence Kit from Boots. But like a lot of people I fell for it at the time - now I'm prouder of once being into Carter USM, frankly.

Tom, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

For me the magic has worn off and left a lot of rusty glitter. That much is true. No, they don't mean what they did. And so, no, the listening experience is not what it was. (I was never a Fan, wearing the togs, believing the hype, or anything - but I did respect the music, and close-up, live, they were sweatily astounding.)

But I did think them significant. I think they represented a union of 'indie world' and 'media hype' - of alternative and mainstream, more simply - which seems natural now but was genuinely strange then. They did on (retrospectively) a homely scale what Oasis then went and did on an absurd scale. In other words, I think they represent a major stage in The Reclassification Of 'Indie'.

I also think they had good material, and good musicianship. The first LP was a fine debut, but DMS beat it - it was a remarkable record, a masterpiece, within the Suede perspective. If you don't like that 'world' (lyrics, sound etc) then it's just an ugly folly, I daresay, but if you do (as to an extent I did when it came out) it felt like a very major achievement. Better, I'd still say, than Different Class, This Is Hardcore, The Great Escape, Be Here Now and a bunch of other Britpop behemoths. (But not necessarily better than, for instance, Parklife - another record I view as Significant.)

the pinefox, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Can we not just forget about this silly little band? Were they really influential? I can't imagine they were. Maybe in some narrow field of idiocy.

Nick, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

THE DROWNERS IS THE BEST SONG EVER, WHY HAS NO ONE MENTIONED THIS YET?

Ally, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Nick just doesn't want people to be reminded of the fact he looks like Neil Codling.

Nicole, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

That’s it, you had to get into their “perspective”, their “Suedeworld”.

I loved the flashness of Coming Up when it came along in the autumn of 96. You just had to admire Anderson’s survivalist instincts despite it being obvious they were never to be centre stage again. It had a cetain romance about it. They went for that deliberately cold, robotic, and mechanized sound with Head Music but what initially to me sounded brilliant soon wore away after a few weeks – it was the Suede LP that was stranded without context.

Saw them from speaker distance in the 100 club between their first 2 singles at the height of the hype and it was fantastic esp. after spending the summer at lank haired grunge gigs. I remember some of the radio interviews around the time of the DMS release. Brett seemed fucked out of it from the drugs but the album seemed like a strange but necessary anomaly in those last months of 1994 amongst the explosion of jungle, trip hop and Loaded culture. Anderson might have been an asshole but rather him than the whining and supercilious musoness of Butler.

Fave songs: The Chemistry Between Us, Wild Ones,

David Gunnip, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I actually own The Drowners.

But THEN I SAW SENSE

Nick, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

That was around the time Sense and Sensibility came out, wasn't it? Gotta love that Hugh Grant...

Nicole, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Pinefox: In other words, I think they represent a major stage in The Reclassification Of 'Indie'.

yes, i believe pinefox is correct here. although curiously i'm not sure whether they reaped the benefit of this or not (i suppose they sold a lot of records).

Tom: Isn't glamour and decadence meant to be intelligent and fierce and surprising? Brett Anderson seemed like he'd gone and bought a Decadence Kit from Boots.

i'm not necessarily convinced of this. why should glamour/decadence be the above? i kind of like the fact that it was a bit faux in that respect. i think of the 'shtick' as being people from seaside towns looking towards metropolis as being exciting and glamourous, rather than glamourous itself. i think this removal, a slight distance if you will, lends it the english quality, as also seen in the obvious comparisons (tindersticks, the bowie of 'london boys', smiths) and also perhaps the less obvious (the sundays - although i'm not sure how i would articulate what i mean here), which for example the lumbering plod of oasis or blur could never hope to achieve.

the production (esp the drums) reminds me in a way of happy mondays (i think it is the big echoey drums, there is an 80s-ness about that)

The one and only trash pop slut, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Pinefox: In other words, I think they represent a major stage in The Reclassification Of 'Indie'.

yes, i believe pinefox is correct here. although curiously i'm not sure whether they reaped the benefit of this or not (i suppose they sold a lot of records).

Tom: Isn't glamour and decadence meant to be intelligent and fierce and surprising? Brett Anderson seemed like he'd gone and bought a Decadence Kit from Boots.

i'm not necessarily convinced of this. why should glamour/decadence be the above? i kind of like the fact that it was a bit faux in that respect. i think of the 'shtick' as being people from seaside towns looking towards metropolis as being exciting and glamourous, rather than glamourous itself. i think this removal, a slight distance if you will, lends it the english quality, as also seen in the obvious comparisons (tindersticks, the bowie of 'london boys', smiths) and also perhaps the less obvious (the sundays - although i'm not sure how i would articulate what i mean here), which for example the lumbering plod of oasis or blur could never hope to achieve.

the production (esp the drums) reminds me in a way of happy mondays (i think it is the big echoey drums, there is an 80s-ness about that)

the one and only trash pop slut, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Why, Gareth? Well because if it isn't then what's the difference between 'glamour' like wot Brett did and 'piling on the slap and getting off your face' like wot everyone in Ritzys nightclub does?

Tom, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

There are different types of glamour and different types of attitude; not all glamour can be Marilyn Monroe; some of it needs to be Patsy & Edina.

I mean, just think of it this way, Brett looked less Instant Decadance than the Manics did. I mean, talk about putting any old clap on and then pretending to be fabulous, lordy.

NICK YOU HAVE NO SENSE.

Ally, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I luv Gareth, if the real bloke who signs himself 'the one and only trash pop slut' saw that, he'd be SO pissed off.

DG, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

"The Drowners" is my favorite single of the early 90s. Maybe favorite 90s single, period, I'll have to think about that.

A Homosexual Who's Had Several Bisexual Experiences, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

To the twelve-year old jamesmichaelward, Stay Together was one of the bestest things ever.

jamesmichaelward, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Stay Together was beautiful.

So what does everyone think of the McAlmont & Butler album then?

Ally, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I really liked it -- McAlmont is a great singer and performer. BB was a mentalist to think people would rather listen to his irritating weedy voice than McAlmont or Brett.

Nicole, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

"McAlmont and Butler" is fantastic. How the hell did Bernard Butler get from that to....ugh...whatever he did afterwards?

Norman Phay, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

'Animal Nitrate' was their best song I thought. I want to know whether other people thought that was their best song.

maryann, Thursday, 1 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Of course it's amazing. Some days I prefer "Metal Mickey".

Sean, Friday, 2 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

"What does it take to turn you on...?!" is one the best phrases in pop.

Simon, Saturday, 3 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

But they do a cover of Elvis Costello's "Shipbuilding" that I absolutely love, probably more so than the original.
No way Chris. The one and only version of "Shipbuilding" is and will always be Robert Wyatt's. But nevertheless it is probably the best song Brett Anderson has ever sung. ;-)

alex in mainhattan, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

Brett Anderson as shipbuilder = too great a leap of imagination

Nick, Monday, 5 November 2001 01:00 (fifteen years ago) Permalink

I like 'She's In Fashion' more now than I did at the time. As a song it's no more than a two-chord groove, but the synths and the acoustic guitar on it sound so lovely.

Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Monday, 9 January 2017 22:04 (three months ago) Permalink

Head Music could have been a very different record if they'd included stuff like 'Crackhead' and 'Heroin' ...

Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Monday, 9 January 2017 22:06 (three months ago) Permalink

Sadky, Head Mysic was where i no longer enjoyed Suede

I hear from this arsehole again, he's going in the river (James Morrison), Tuesday, 10 January 2017 00:33 (three months ago) Permalink

Had Elephant Man and the title track simply been nixed then this album would have been more fondly-remembered

Saviour Faire has always received a lot for it's dumb lyrics, but I always assumed they were intentional, a complete break from the ornate imagery he was known for.

It's rarely discussed but Suede from Coming Up onwards seem to have been increasingly intent on shedding the Bernard-era's image and outlook, which obviously ended very badly by the time of the split. Only post-reformation did Suede Mk II really seem to be trying to channel the earlier years.

PaulTMA, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 02:08 (three months ago) Permalink

Man I love "She's in Fashion". That woozy riff is really transporting for me, even if the chorus is pretty simple

Vinnie, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 04:22 (three months ago) Permalink

i have signed up to do the Suede poll and man are you guys getting me excited about running that one. it still probably won't happen for a couple of years however.

Bee OK, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 04:38 (three months ago) Permalink

i owned everything up to Head Music.

Bee OK, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 04:39 (three months ago) Permalink

Sadky, Head Mysic was where i no longer enjoyed Suede

yeah,I bought it and for a time liked some of it but it didn't last. Actually, it's a bit of a
"New Jersey" for them !
number 1 album, seemed huge at the time and then nobody cared quickly and they vanished then split...
that said, my LOVE for the band was only for the Butler era. Even by "Coming up" I didn't care as much.

AlXTC from Paris, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 09:59 (three months ago) Permalink

As for the "Head Music"/80s sounding question, I have listened to a part of the album yesterday (couldn't make it to the end !) and I still don't hear it.
What I might hear is something related to bands like Garbage, i.e a certain idea of "modernity" (electronic sounds, synths, drum loops...) for indie/alt bands in the mid 90s.
but it sure is a strange beast.

AlXTC from Paris, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 10:03 (three months ago) Permalink

I don't really hear Garbage either... Head Music strikes me as being more sparse/"clean" sounding.

Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Tuesday, 10 January 2017 10:23 (three months ago) Permalink

yeah sure it's not identical and I had also never thought of that comparison with bands like Garbage before but thinking about it now, there are some elements in common.
I'm pretty sure they didn't see it that way, anyway.
but their desire to sound more electronic/dancey/modern might have taken them it the same direction.

AlXTC from Paris, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 10:56 (three months ago) Permalink

This sounds so 90s:

I can maybe hear 80s inspiration in "Savoir Faire" and "Hi-Fi" but I think from just listening it would be quite easy to guess when Head Music was made, especially a song like "Down" is textbook late 90s production (cf. William Orbit)

niels, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 16:45 (three months ago) Permalink

'Everything Will Flow' sounds '80s to me in its pristineness. I'll concede that the intro to 'Down' sounds a little like something William Orbit would have done in the late '90s, but then the approach that Orbit and the likes of AIR had at the time was retro in its own way. Incidentally, weren't Orbit's first records made in the '80s?

Anyhow, I'm sure you could pin down many '80s revivalist records released in the '10s as being released in the '10s. It doesn't prevent 'em from being '80s revivalist records.

Working night & day, I tried to stay awake... (Turrican), Tuesday, 10 January 2017 17:47 (three months ago) Permalink

I guess we just have different ideas of what constitutes 80s and 90s aesthetics

The drums and the lead guitar on "Everything Will Flow" both sound quintessentially 90s to my ears, and, well, the vocals just sound very Coming Up-era Suede, so for me, they're also p 90s sounding

niels, Tuesday, 10 January 2017 17:54 (three months ago) Permalink

three months pass...

The debut's amazing, I didn't really notice until now

an uptempo Pop/Hip Hop mentality (imago), Monday, 10 April 2017 19:14 (two weeks ago) Permalink

It really is, though I recently tried giving Dog Man Star another shot, and its grandiosity grated on me more than ever (I couldn't make it past 'New Generation'). Anyway, the S/T is all the Suede I need—what an album.

pomenitul, Monday, 10 April 2017 19:21 (two weeks ago) Permalink

What I like most about it is how it sort of sneaks by - for such a bold pop album it keeps its cards well hidden - that sense of mystery and disconnection is vital to its charm. I don't mean to say that the songs are cryptic in their intention, but the album doesn't make a grand fanfare of its intentions, just sort of slyly and elegantly saunters, ambiguous of mood and slightly above it all. And so it's grown on me with each listen, each attempt to reach quite what it's about. I'm not sure I'll ever quite crack it.

an uptempo Pop/Hip Hop mentality (imago), Monday, 10 April 2017 19:28 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Really? For me, of all of their albums, the debut was the most immediate!

...so music and chicken have become intertwined (Turrican), Monday, 10 April 2017 19:34 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Like, a song such as Sleeping Pills can slip through your ears and you'll only realise a tiny bit too late that it was brilliant

Obviously, trying to calculate how good this album would have been with My Insatiable One, To The Birds and He's Dead all rightfully installed (but where? but where?) is a source of great and tantalising fondness

an uptempo Pop/Hip Hop mentality (imago), Monday, 10 April 2017 19:36 (two weeks ago) Permalink

the verses on "sleeping pills" are so lovely but the chorus doesn't do it for me

"moving" is weak

the rest is fabulous

a but (brimstead), Tuesday, 11 April 2017 01:30 (two weeks ago) Permalink

was "the big time" recorded after the first album? man that's a great tune.

a but (brimstead), Tuesday, 11 April 2017 01:32 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Hmm. I don't think 'Moving' is weak, but it's definitely more of a "live" song. The version on the LP could have been much better, but I can't really complain that much about it.

...so music and chicken have become intertwined (Turrican), Tuesday, 11 April 2017 01:34 (two weeks ago) Permalink

'The Big Time' was one of the 'Animal Nitrate' B-sides... I think it was written and recorded after the sessions for Suede ... it's a great song, no doubt. The first disc of Sci-Fi Lullabies is my favourite Suede LP.

...so music and chicken have become intertwined (Turrican), Tuesday, 11 April 2017 01:39 (two weeks ago) Permalink

ah yeah, the debut is definitely the one I would keep if I had to choose.
It's not perfect at all (Moving, Animal Lover) but it made me fall for them when it was released and it was never really as strong after that (even DMS).
To this day I still find something very special in this album that I can't really define.
For all their obvious influences it doesn't really sound like Bowie, Smiths, etc. or anything else.
There's something very alien in the whole thing (structures, sounds/production, lyrics...) whereas the following records are more "classic".

AlXTC from Paris, Tuesday, 11 April 2017 08:24 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I don't think 'Animal Lover' is a weak song at all - I think it's great and, contrary to what Brett himself thinks, I think the recording of it is fine too.

...so music and chicken have become intertwined (Turrican), Tuesday, 11 April 2017 14:34 (two weeks ago) Permalink

+1

Also the chorus of Sleeping Pills is amazing imo

an uptempo Pop/Hip Hop mentality (imago), Tuesday, 11 April 2017 17:54 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I used to skip 'Moving' for years - the album version is muffled, Brett sounds like he's singing in a concrete corridor and there's this phasing effect on practically everything else. What ended up saving it for me was the lyrics ("stick like sick on the stars" especially).
I always liked 'Animal Lover' and particularly it's a great penultimate track - it's a perfect lead into 'The Next Life'.

Mozart's Musical Dubstep Dice Game (snoball), Tuesday, 11 April 2017 18:10 (two weeks ago) Permalink

i love that phasing effect, you're weird

sarahell, Tuesday, 11 April 2017 18:20 (two weeks ago) Permalink

snoball being weird is a well-established fact courtesy of the ilx comps (<3)

an uptempo Pop/Hip Hop mentality (imago), Tuesday, 11 April 2017 18:22 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Probably an American thing, but I've always associated and compared this Suede album with Your Arsenal -- in that I got them around the same time. So for, geez, 20+ years, I've mentally allotted "The Next Life" as Suede's "version" of "I Know It's Gonna Happen Someday," to which it comes up short.

sarahell, Tuesday, 11 April 2017 18:30 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Yeah, I love that swooping sound in between the verses and choruses on 'Moving'!

...so music and chicken have become intertwined (Turrican), Tuesday, 11 April 2017 19:19 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Well, I like "Moving" and "Animal Lover" (and its deluge of guitar in the last part) but I just find them less brilliant than the rest of the album. More b-sideish (and not the greatest b-sides they had at the time).
And as for "Animal Lover" being a perfect lead into "The Next Life" it is good but "He's Dead" would have done that better, for instance.
And concerning the phasing effect, I love it and Butler used it A LOT at the time. It was the first pedal I bought due to that !

AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 08:02 (two weeks ago) Permalink

There's something very alien in the whole thing (structures, sounds/production, lyrics...) whereas the following records are more "classic".

I totally agree, even though "Coming Up" is a more polished version of the debut, the latter is brash and exhilarating in ways that their more controlled follow-up albums can't touch.

NoTimeBeforeTime, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 12:57 (two weeks ago) Permalink

hey anti-Moving brigade, check these versions!

BBC session! (a year before the album)

Brixton 94!

piscesx, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 13:50 (two weeks ago) Permalink

oh I'm not anti-Moving at all (actually I don't think there's a single song I really dislike from the Butler era. except maybe "The Power").
I simply think it's not as good as some of their b-sides of the time and could have been replaced advantageously on the album by one of those !

AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 14:11 (two weeks ago) Permalink

All this revisionist stuff about placing B-sides on Suede and Dog Man Star is pointless, IMO... the first disc of Sci-Fi Lullabies exists, so it's not like anyone lost out. I wouldn't change a thing about any of those records.

...so music and chicken have become intertwined (Turrican), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 14:29 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Well, I never said "Moving" or "Animal Lover" HAD to be removed (since I said I loved the album as it is, with its imperfections).
The question was whether these tracks were as strong as the rest of the album : I don't think so, some think so.
No problem !

AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 14:41 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Speaking of "Sci-Fi", I wonder why "Painted People" was the only b-side rejected...

AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 14:46 (two weeks ago) Permalink

It wasn't! There's a couple of others that didn't make it on there from both eras.

...so music and chicken have become intertwined (Turrican), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 14:59 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Ah I don't really know the post Butler era b-sides... It seemed unfair since it's a pretty good early Suede track !

AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 15:10 (two weeks ago) Permalink

'Dolly' and 'This World Needs a Father' ... both Butler-era, both not on Sci-Fi Lullabies

...so music and chicken have become intertwined (Turrican), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 15:13 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Moving is great. I like how it borrows heavily from XTC's Generals & Majors for the chorus. Animal Lover is easily the weakest song on there.

kitchen person, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 15:15 (two weeks ago) Permalink

'Dolly' and 'This World Needs a Father' ... both Butler-era, both not on Sci-Fi Lullabies

― ...so music and chicken have become intertwined (Turrican)

Asda Town as well. That and This World Needs a Father should have been on there.

kitchen person, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 15:16 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Ah never noticed for "Dolly" and "this World" ! Maybe because I had the singles...

AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 15:19 (two weeks ago) Permalink

'This World Needs a Father' in particular is really underrated, I think.

...so music and chicken have become intertwined (Turrican), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 15:19 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Ah for me it would be "whipsnade". One of their absolute finest moments afaic.

AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 17:10 (two weeks ago) Permalink

At least they've been known to play 'Whipsnade' live, I'm not sure 'This World Needs a Father' ever has.

...so music and chicken have become intertwined (Turrican), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 18:12 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Well, I like "This World" and it has something immediate and catchy but I don't know, there's also something second rate in both the songwriting and production.
It's catchy and simple like a single but sounds and lacks depth like a b-side !
It doesn't really make sense, does it ?

AlXTC from Paris, Thursday, 13 April 2017 07:38 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Love the first album, parts of the second (especially the b-sides) and "Trash" - the rest I don't care about much.

Suede were important to me when they first came on the scene because their sleazy sex glam was an epiphany to me about what I didn't like about Grunge. I was a kid raised on images of Duran Duran so it took me a while before I realized, oh yeah, Mother Love Bone is pretty much the opposite of what I have learned to think was exciting. Suede emerged in all of that boring overcast Grunge bullshit and it was like, "OH YEAH, SEX!"

Fast forward a couple of years and my time with Suede was pretty much over. My divorce from their music was accelerated when I started dating this (American) girl who was obsessed with Britpop at the time who would put on the second Suede album and tell me things like "You see, the Asphalt World is really a clever play on words meaning the Ass Felt world." *farts*

yesca, Thursday, 13 April 2017 13:36 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Wait - are you people kidding, or are you mad? Animal Lover is by far my favorite song on this almost flawless album. It is a swirling ball of thrilling glam guitars, filthy lyrics, pummeling momentum and a glorious ending. The pause at 2:57 followed by that majestic chord strum is one of the most thrilling moments in all of music for me. When I'm listening to Animal Lover I can't imagine how any song could be better. I never tire of it. Thank God for Animal Lover, I don't know how I would manage to endure this otherwise hellish existence without it. Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

Migdalia Amygdala (Dr. Joseph A. Ofalt), Friday, 14 April 2017 02:01 (one week ago) Permalink


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