C/D Peter Gabriel - So

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I bought a dubbed mixtape copy of this album today for 40cents. It was at the bottom of the junk box at my local thift store over on Halsted Ave. here in Chicago.

ben welsh (benwelsh), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 22:27 (9 years ago) Permalink

Definitely worth forty cents. Much better than Riptide by Robert Palmer.

Pleasant Plains (Pleasant Plains), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 22:34 (9 years ago) Permalink

Or Robbie Robertson's first album.

Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 22:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

i cannot separate this album from the fucking ubiquitous and horrible videos for the singles from it.

the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 22:43 (9 years ago) Permalink

red rain and mercy street had good videos

anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 22:52 (9 years ago) Permalink

i was unaware that either was even released as a single.

the surface noise (electricsound), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 22:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

almost everything on this album was released as a single, oddly.

anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 23:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

OK, I'll say it: classic. But "restoring" the original sequence by sticking "In Your Eyes" at the end instead of in the middle of the recent remaster = dud. I liked the disc better when it ended with "This is the Picture."

Josh in Chicago (Josh in Chicago), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 23:22 (9 years ago) Permalink

but with in your eyes at the end you can listen to the whole thing all the way through and then just switch it off when that song comes up. actually he should have put big time and sledgehammer there at the end too.

anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 23:28 (9 years ago) Permalink

I can honestly say I learned to dance with "Sledgehammer." No wonder I suck.

Classic album tho and v. quintessentially 80s -- Gabriel, U2, and Sting were gonna save us from Reagan.

Mark (MarkR), Tuesday, 23 March 2004 23:31 (9 years ago) Permalink

i cannot separate this album from the fucking ubiquitous and horrible videos for the singles from it.

WHAT the FUCK!?!!

Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 00:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

I'm sure I wouldn't be able to stomach this album at all had I not first heard it when I was 10. But I did, so I can stomach the hits (which are like 2/3rds of the album). The ones I'll actually rave about are "Sledgehammer" - Rob Sheffield's reason for hating it (a dick song with the line "this will be my testimony") is my reason for finding it enjoyable, and "Big Time," which is equally all ironic and yet not.

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 01:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

of course I loved this album when it came out and still like gabriel most of the time, but the real gems on this are mercy street (really haunting percussion that runs through the whole thing and the studio version at least never increases the tempo or ups the drama too much making the whole thing really chilling) and we do what we're told. oh and red rain too.

anthony kyle monday (akmonday), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 01:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

"Sledgehammer" is one of the greatest songs ever written!! Simply writing it off as "a dick song with the line 'this will be my testimony'" is just stupid.

Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 02:51 (9 years ago) Permalink

Ah, um, hmm. There was definitely a period when I thought Gabriel was some kind of pop genius -- when you had arguments over whether III/Melting Face or Security was the "real" masterpiece. So always came out looking pretty good as I recall.

Upon reflection, however, even with a few admittedly classic singles, a lot of the songs on So leaned heavily on the state-o'-the-art production. And even that didn't hold a glow stick to any one of Trevor Horn's.

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 03:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

I liked the disc better when it ended with "This is the Picture."

My disc ends with "We Do What We're Told," but then my disc is twelve inches wide. (How's that for big time?)

I say classic - mainly for "Mercy Street," but I still enjoy the whole album. And it's a spring album for me, so I should give it its yearly spin quite soon.

Kent Burt (lingereffect), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 04:15 (9 years ago) Permalink

I used to love that "Let's take the boat out/Wait until darkness" bit in "Mercy Street" and wanted it to come back again in the song. The litle bitch...

Naive Teen Idol (Naive Teen Idol), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 04:20 (9 years ago) Permalink

"For Anne Sexton"

Mark (MarkR), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 04:21 (9 years ago) Permalink

Can't stand this shit--annoying voice, stupid videos. Used to kinda like stuff like "Solsbury Hill" and all that, but now I'd just as soon listen to something more honestly populist like Robert Palmer or even Stevie Winwood, not to mention real r&b or soul music. Yeah, he was "funky" and used the Memphis horns, but so what.

eddie hurt (ddduncan), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 17:23 (9 years ago) Permalink

I had this on cassette back in the day. I remember being rather disappointed when I first bought it that all the songs didn't sound like "Big Time" and "Sledgehammer". Too many slow slongs.

o. nate (onate), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 17:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

I've still got the Gabriel video compilation on VHS around my apartment somewhere...I know there's at least four videos from So, and maybe more.

As for the album, I like every single song on it—even played-out standards like "Sledgehammer" and "In Your Eyes." Hard to believe it turns 18 years old this year.

Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 17:30 (9 years ago) Permalink

There is a video for 'Mercy Street', but I don't think it was a single. Not in the UK, anyway.

This was my favourite album when I was 13 and 14. I used to hope a book would come out called 'So: The Answers', in which Peter Gabriel would reveal what all the songs were about. That is the most embarrassing thing I have ever revealed on ILX.

N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 17:40 (9 years ago) Permalink

I started to write that this album is "SO classic" but then I realized it'd come off as a bad pun. But goddamn do I love it. And noone's mentioned "That Voice Again", which is often my favorite song on it.

Al (sitcom), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 17:47 (9 years ago) Permalink

anthony kyle monday is completely OTM.

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 18:10 (9 years ago) Permalink

"Don't Give Up" is horrible.

"This Is the Picture" was better as a Laurie Anderson song. (Although I haven't heard either version since 1986, so I may be wrong.)

The rest of the record is mediocre compared to other PG works.

dave225 (Dave225), Wednesday, 24 March 2004 18:16 (9 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...
So, yeah, Rob Sheffield was wrong. This time. And "That Voice Again" is the secret highlight.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 00:51 (6 years ago) Permalink

A recording that reminds me of hanging out with Jennifer Miller, my HS punk rock friend (who is still my friend) and both of us loving it. So it's a classic if only for totally personal reasons. Which is what music is all about, right?

NYCNative, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 00:58 (6 years ago) Permalink

Listening to it tonight, after an interval of many years, I'm struck by what an intimate recording it is. For all the sonic big-bam-boom, the arrangements are pretty basic: Gabriel on synths, and guitar-bass-drums, with horns, Kate Bush, and Stewart Copeland added when needed. This has probably aged better than any big-selling breakthrough album of the era.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Wednesday, 14 March 2007 01:11 (6 years ago) Permalink

"So" is still fantastic, although I still see the melted face one as his best solo effort.

Geir Hongro, Thursday, 15 March 2007 22:57 (6 years ago) Permalink

5 months pass...

It's great when you read something on ILM and think, "Man, I just totally agree w that" only to realize you said it.

I dunno. There's something about Gabriel that's extremely...juvenile. I'm not sure how else to put it. Like almost everyone else, this really appealed to me when I was 16. But upon reflection, his lyrics are sophomoric, not profound, his productions flashy, not sophisticated, his hooks obvious, not irresistable.

Maybe it's just music for sixteen year-olds.

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 23 August 2007 02:12 (5 years ago) Permalink

Yes and no. "Mercy Street" appealed to the 15-y-old me because the music -- spare but pulsing -- and lyrics suggested something mysterious, just out of reach. This, "That Voice Again" (that odd guitar hook!), and "Excellent Birds" are the heart of the album.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Thursday, 23 August 2007 02:17 (5 years ago) Permalink

This thread proves once again that on ILM there's a very thin line between cool and simply insane. Classic beyond belief, if not his best. In retrospect, this album's crossover success strikes me as very weird.

rogermexico., Thursday, 23 August 2007 04:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

I came across a version of Red Rain live that featured Peter Gabriel, REM and Natalie Merchant. Granted, it was a slowed down acoustic version, but I laughed out loud. I mean who the hell decided that was a good idea? The THREE of them singing together??

Bimble, Saturday, 29 September 2007 18:48 (5 years ago) Permalink

"sledgehammer" and its video are wicked, also that "big time" tune is slammin'. i love the way they are totally overblown.

max r, Saturday, 29 September 2007 18:52 (5 years ago) Permalink

I'm stuck somewhere between rogermexico and Naive Teen Idol: it's probably his best, occasionally reductive, often overstated, works best when you're 16, still love "Mercy Street" and the singles.

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 29 September 2007 18:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

ESPN Classic used "Don't Give Up" for their documentary on Muhammad Ali (in the segment dealing with his brain damage/Parkinson's), and it was absolutely heartbreaking and beautiful. So, yeah, that song is awesome, and I don't get the hate for it.

Matt Armstrong, Saturday, 29 September 2007 21:08 (5 years ago) Permalink

7 months pass...

I just got Us a couple of weeks ago, never bought it despite owning everything from So & before, and it has about 4 really good songs.

Mark Rich@rdson, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 04:19 (5 years ago) Permalink

But you revived a So thread to tell us? That's sad. "So" is like...eternal, whereas I don't remember a damn thing about Us.

Not trying to hate on you personally Mark, I've enjoyed your posts many a time in the past.

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 04:22 (5 years ago) Permalink

I wasn't sure this warranted its own thread, didn't see one, and it's certainly in the vein of So, so...

Mark Rich@rdson, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 04:35 (5 years ago) Permalink

hahaha wonderful. Which songs are the 4 that you like?

Bimble Is Still More Goth Than You, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 04:49 (5 years ago) Permalink

"Blood of Eden"
"Digging in the Dirt"
"Come Talk to Me"

are all very good, anyway. I'd forgotten how much he could do with his voice then.

Mark Rich@rdson, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 05:03 (5 years ago) Permalink

had you not heard (some of) these on the various Gabriel hits comps?

stephen, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 06:18 (5 years ago) Permalink

"Us" is excellent. Damn excellent. I may rank "So" slightly ahead of it (and the melt face one slightly about that one again), but "Us" is also absolutely gorgeous. Even though it wears a bit thin towards the end. "Blood Of Eden" and "Love To Be Loved" are both among his best ever moments.

Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 08:07 (5 years ago) Permalink

I've become really fond of Gabriel's work in recent years. "That Voice Again" is an awesome song. I find his later stuff so sad, somehow.

Trayce, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 08:36 (5 years ago) Permalink

How much later? A good bit of all of his stuff is *supposed* to be sad.

kenan, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 08:52 (5 years ago) Permalink

Also, gotta side with Geir on everything. Melty face is the best, But Us has more than four good songs. It's a darn fine record.

kenan, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 08:54 (5 years ago) Permalink

Well the stuff like So, Us and Up, I guess. It's just his voice and the melodies he chooses I think.

Trayce, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 09:05 (5 years ago) Permalink

Oh, yeah, I see. I thought you meant sad like "Sad old man, stop making records, please." His last couple give me that kind of sad. :(

kenan, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 09:25 (5 years ago) Permalink

I never had a hits comp, but I did hear "Blood" and "Digging" around, just forgot how good they were. As good as anything on So. In my mind, I thought he was done after So but I was wrong.

Mark Rich@rdson, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 12:52 (5 years ago) Permalink

"Up" was also an excellent album. No obvious hit singles, but lots of really strong songs.

Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 14 May 2008 23:53 (5 years ago) Permalink

That clip above reminds me of all the bits in the Depeche Mode reissue docs of the band mucking about with an Emulator. Like this:

(Ha, per Wiki, " Fairlight became such a prominent part of 1980s pop music that Phil Collins included the text "there is no Fairlight on this record" on the sleeve of No Jacket Required." Ironically, No Jacket Requires does include Peter Gabriel.)

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 11:50 (2 years ago) Permalink

It also contained a lot of DX7, which, which its "harsh" sounds, effectively sounded a lot like a Fairlight.

Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

I suppose, when he said it didn't include any Fairlight, that also meant it didn't include any Emulators. Otherwise it would have been a bit of a fluke.

Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 20:56 (2 years ago) Permalink

i stopped by my dad's house today and this album was on the stereo <3 <3 <3

some dude, Tuesday, 10 May 2011 21:02 (2 years ago) Permalink

Collins loved those DX-7 and Prophet sounds.

ginny thomas and tonic (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 21:03 (2 years ago) Permalink

HI THERE

chairfuckers union (Whiney G. Weingarten), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 21:07 (2 years ago) Permalink

SO MUCH STUFF I WILL OWN

ginny thomas and tonic (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 21:08 (2 years ago) Permalink

Collins loved those DX-7 and Prophet sounds.

The Prophet 5 was a classic analogue synth, which sounded like synths had always used to sound. The DX-7 was decidedly very different, with very harsh, metallic sounds, plus the fact that it was very hard to program meant a lot of the same factory sounds would be re-used a zillion times.

Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Tuesday, 10 May 2011 21:13 (2 years ago) Permalink

laurie anderson "excellent birds" vs. peter gabriel "this is the picture"

also what other sick b-sides from this album do you recommend

Snámh dá Én (missingNO), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 15:19 (2 years ago) Permalink

"Don't Break This Rhythm"!

ginny thomas and tonic (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 18:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah all the b-sides for this are great, very odd

american thinker (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 18:15 (2 years ago) Permalink

curtains is excellent, one of my favorite gabriel songs. don't break this rhythm was a b-side from this but I think it predated the album by a few years, across the river....this was on the big time cd single (one of them), also earlier than the album, I"m pretty certain (it was on some amnesty comp earlier)

akm, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 18:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

don't break this rhythm was a b-side from this but I think it predated the album by a few years,

really? Sure you don't mean "Walk Through The Fire"?

ginny thomas and tonic (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 11 May 2011 18:30 (2 years ago) Permalink

DX-7 was long Eno's synth of choice, too. He was renown for being one of the few patient enough to master its time-consuming interface.

Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 11 May 2011 20:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

I would say the synth I think of when I hear Eno's name is the VCS3, but that was in the 70s of course.

Hongroe (Geir Hongro), Thursday, 12 May 2011 07:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

So was my first exposure to Peter Gabriel (though I may have heard Shock the Monkey or something prior w/o realizing who'd done it). I didn't know any history on him at the time. Just thought he was this cool old guy who was making kinda square but also kinda epic music that had accompanying weirdo videos.

The reason I italicized old guy is because when So was released, Gabriel was a year younger than I am now.

Johnny Fever, Thursday, 12 May 2011 07:28 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah i remember being a kid and probably on some level realizing PG was my dad's age (almost exactly) and didn't dress very cool but had awesome music and awesome videos. the end of the "Sledgehammer" video almost seemed to be playing off his squareness, with his stiff dancing in a suit among the black backup singers at the end and all that.

contenderoni (some dude), Thursday, 12 May 2011 12:52 (2 years ago) Permalink

^^^ what these last two fellas said

You're fucking fired and you know jack shit about horses (James Morrison), Thursday, 12 May 2011 23:39 (2 years ago) Permalink

10 months pass...

xpost It's not very good, to be honest. The artists (and albums) he's working on throughout are generally of such a high caliber that he's very careful how many secrets he spills. I suppose the best bits are learning about his hardscrabble upbringing, the happenstance stuff that led him to Eno (or actually vice versa; also, some of his and Eno's tandem experiments sound really neat, like as a lark walking through a Moroccan market separately for 20 minutes with tape recorders, then syncing the playback up in surround sound to totally recreate that vibrant multi-dimemsional sonic environment in a studio setting) and his total fan-boy love of his heroes. That said, I think I read it in an afternoon, and deserved about as much time.

It is, I guess, interesting how much Lanois' own guitar playing has helped direct a lot of the albums he's recorded, especially U2's "Achtung Baby" and beyond and the two Dylan records. Every once in a while he tips his hand as to who's playing what, and his contributions are sometimes major.


Btw, this is a great post -- and having read the book a few months back, I agree completely.

Naive Teen Idol, Wednesday, 28 March 2012 04:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

I can't play the TV portion....ugh

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 11:00 (1 year ago) Permalink

but it IS on YouTube.

Exile in lolville (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 28 March 2012 11:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

6 months pass...

I bought the three disc reissue and still haven't moved past the original album because it;'s so amazing

Gandalf’s Gobble Melt (DJP), Saturday, 27 October 2012 01:44 (6 months ago) Permalink

honestly this album means so much to me (and my original copy is on vinyl at my parents' house) that I don't care that there are no b-sides

Gandalf’s Gobble Melt (DJP), Saturday, 27 October 2012 01:59 (6 months ago) Permalink

I think every corpuscle in my body would explode if "Mercy Street" sounded better than it already does.

the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 27 October 2012 02:02 (6 months ago) Permalink

"Mercy Street" is one of the greatest songs ever recorded and it's playing on my computer right now

I shouldn't be so happy, given the downer nature of the song, but I am

Gandalf’s Gobble Melt (DJP), Saturday, 27 October 2012 02:03 (6 months ago) Permalink

just sitting here in my boxers, jammin out to "Mercy Street"

yay Friday (ps I have been drinking)

Gandalf’s Gobble Melt (DJP), Saturday, 27 October 2012 02:05 (6 months ago) Permalink

yay "Big Time" one of the best songs EVER

the place where I come from
is a small town
they think so small
they use small words

THIS IS TRUTH

Gandalf’s Gobble Melt (DJP), Saturday, 27 October 2012 02:10 (6 months ago) Permalink

one doubt
one voice
one war
one truth
one dream

the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 27 October 2012 02:11 (6 months ago) Permalink

one of the best albums EVER

Gandalf’s Gobble Melt (DJP), Saturday, 27 October 2012 02:12 (6 months ago) Permalink

That guitar hook on "That Voice Again" is so ODD.

the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 27 October 2012 02:18 (6 months ago) Permalink

and instead of a guitar solo we get this really simple keyboard one -- ugh. I love this record.

the ones that I'm near most: fellow outcasts and ilxors (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 27 October 2012 02:18 (6 months ago) Permalink

"That Voice Again" is the one that really grabs me and shakes me when I listen to the record these days.

Clarke B., Saturday, 27 October 2012 02:32 (6 months ago) Permalink

"Red Rain" never gets the respect it deserves IMO

Gandalf’s Gobble Melt (DJP), Saturday, 27 October 2012 02:34 (6 months ago) Permalink

One of the coolest things I learned when watching the episode of Classic Albums on So was that—and it never registered with me before—it was first time Gabriel ever really included high hat work. Daniel Lanois talked him into it and they brought in Stewart Copeland for "Red Rain" and then allowed it on some of the other songs. If you go back and listen to the previous albums, anything that sounds like a high hat probably isn't.

Bout to go Jethro TULL on that ass (Johnny Fever), Saturday, 27 October 2012 02:35 (6 months ago) Permalink

If there's one thing I am sure, it is that the climax of Red Rain will always be a part of me. It's just down there, embedded in my earliest musical memories and it's coloured too much. It's almost too close really.

Master of Treacle, Saturday, 27 October 2012 02:38 (6 months ago) Permalink

"I'm BATHING in it....red RAIN..coming down.."

Master of Treacle, Saturday, 27 October 2012 02:41 (6 months ago) Permalink

this is my favorite album... the last time i listened to it was yesterday. i was gonna go see his 25th anniversary tour thingy when it came by recently but i wasn't able to due to work :(

teledyldonix, Saturday, 27 October 2012 02:43 (6 months ago) Permalink

v tender revive. ILM could use more slightly-sauced livetweets of classic albums.

all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Saturday, 27 October 2012 02:55 (6 months ago) Permalink

"livetweets"

Bout to go Jethro TULL on that ass (Johnny Fever), Saturday, 27 October 2012 03:08 (6 months ago) Permalink

can't believe the three-disc set doesn't include the "special mix" of in your eyes. i guess that maintains the special-ness?

all yoga attacks are fire based (rogermexico.), Saturday, 27 October 2012 03:12 (6 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

One of the coolest things I learned when watching the episode of Classic Albums on /So/ was that—and it never registered with me before—it was first time Gabriel ever really included high hat work. Daniel Lanois talked him into it and they brought in Stewart Copeland for "Red Rain" and then allowed it on some of the other songs. If you go back and listen to the previous albums, anything that sounds like a high hat probably isn't.

I was disappointed that they spent so much time on the videos, artwork and album title and never even got to talk about "Big Time," "We Do What We're Told" or "That Voice Again." I mean, that's a lot to leave out. Wonder if the DVD has more...

Naive Teen Idol, Thursday, 29 November 2012 02:55 (5 months ago) Permalink

I haven't seen the DVD, but there should be bonus footage on there discussing the other songs... I've known this to the case with other DVD editions of the Classic Albums series.

The Jupiter 8 (Turrican), Thursday, 29 November 2012 03:13 (5 months ago) Permalink

Always thought it was kind of funny how Gabriel went from zero crash cymbals on his records to nothing but cymbals on So.

and I scream Fieri Eiffel Tower High (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Thursday, 29 November 2012 03:31 (5 months ago) Permalink

That new "So" boxed set supposedly has a bonus disc that shows the evolution of the album from demos to the final versions. I'm curious.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 29 November 2012 03:58 (5 months ago) Permalink

Saw him a few months back touring the 25th anniversary of this. It's amazing how supple his voice still is. I wouldn't have pegged him for a technical singer (I've always loved his voice but assumed that grizzled/manic timbre was something of a fluke). But he must have been doing serious vocal yoga through the years to still sing That Voice with power.

SongOfSam, Thursday, 29 November 2012 20:59 (5 months ago) Permalink

Missed the set, because I didn't feel the need to go, but he has had an uptick in vocal abilities I think. Or at least he paces himself well. I think it helps that his daughter sings backup. Genetics help.

Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 29 November 2012 21:20 (5 months ago) Permalink


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