Super Furry Animals vs. Gentle Giant

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Actually, this is more a 'separated at birth'. They are one and the same!

― dave q, Tuesday, 9 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Big crit mystery, why was 'prog-lite' (anything to the right of Genesis - Sparks, 10cc, Queen, Supertramp, anything with more Beach Boys influence than Beatles) even more critically reviled than prog- heavy - was it the rockism of the pop or pop in service of rockism? Especially when their progeny - SFA, Grandaddy, Beta Band, even Radiohead - is now the 'rock it's OK to like' even though it sounds exactly alike?

― dave q, Tuesday, 9 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I'm not sure they were critically panned at the time.

I recall the critics predictions for who would become big in 1976/77 all seemed to be very much of that ilk. Racing Cars, Lone Star etc.

The comparisons with modern prog-lite are pretty compelling - Radiohead ARE 'How Dare You' 10cc and Paranoid Android is 'Im Mandy Fly Me' almost note by note. SFA would do a lovely version of 'Think of me with kindness' too.

Predicting the future from the past in pop music is doomed to failure, but it would be a healthy sign if these bands were to suffer a critical backlash and were jettisoned into obscurity.

I don't actually dislike the neo-prog-lite bands, but the possibility is that they are in the way of something better. So in the interests of humanity they should find a better place to grow old than the pop music business (hey! spot the near PG quote!)

I didn't particularly dislike Supertramp until I got the first Clash album either. I hope there is an album out soon that teaches me to loathe Radiohead (apart from OK Computer).

― Alexander Blair, Tuesday, 9 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Why is it a mystery, dq, when you're talking about critical reactions 25 years apart? Everything's changed. The Beach Boys were at their lowest in terms of cred say from 1975-1985 (possibly until B. Wilson re-surfaced in the late 80's). Now of course the BBs are cooler than cool (although I sense they've peaked.

― Dr. C, Tuesday, 9 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

'Standing in the way of something better' - too true, Alexander B. In fact, it's giving me a nightmare vision of an alternate 1977 where City Boy and Streetwalkers vanquished the Ramones/Pistols. As for Radiohead - as the White House put it, "The enemy has already come over the hills"

― dave q, Tuesday, 9 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Here I was thinking SFA was a fun pop band, when in fact they're a dreary prog band!

― Sean, Tuesday, 9 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

pop isn't always fun and prog isn't always dreary

The Furries are a fun prog band with a bit of non-dreay prog thrown in.

― Alexander Blair, Tuesday, 9 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Why is "prog-lite" more hated than "prog-heavy"? That's easy. It's because whimsy and camp have always been misunderstood by traditional rock critics. It's seen as childish, something that gets in the way of nose-to-the-grindstone, guitar-as-a-phallic-symbol ROCK.

― Christine "Green Leafy Dragon" Indigo, Tuesday, 9 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Speaking of 10cc Loved "Open My Eyes" == "She Says What She Means" by Sloan.

― Mr Noodles, Tuesday, 9 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Didn't one of Gentle Giant set up One Little Indian records with a bloke from Flux of Pink Indians? The prog/punk crossover at its finest, no?

― Snotty Moore, Wednesday, 10 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Steve Mason of the Beta Band = Sting...well,at least listen to It's Not Too Beautiful,especially the vocals over the John Barry sample,and you will know.

― Damian, Friday, 12 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

This comparison might have been funny if SFA sounded even remotely like Gentle Giant. Remember, prog doesn't necessarily equal pretentious foolery. If it did, U2 and REM would be the biggest prog bands in history.

― dleone, Saturday, 13 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

three years pass...

So what are the best Gentle Giant albums supposed to be? I have been listening to new 35th Anniversary Edition reissues of Free Hand and In A Glass House that I got sent in the mail earlier this week, and they are....very silly. And often catchy. And pretty. They never remotely rock, I don't think, but I think I like them anyway. Especially when some dorky synth beep keeps coming back every five seconds. Jethro Tull doing *Pet Sounds*? I'm not sure if that gets it. (I had always assumed Giant For A Day was supposed to be their classic, but maybe that's just cos that's the one I always remembered seeing in stores, with their big dumb jolly green giant face on it.)

― xhuxk, Thursday, 7 April 2005 17:59 (nineteen years ago) link

could start with 'power and the glory' maybe. and 'playing the fool' is a decent overview live album. those two actually come close to rocking, in sections.

― milton parker (Jon L), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:03 (nineteen years ago) link

Octopus is the commonly-accepted peak. But I don't know. I'd say the best Gentle Giant to get for starters is the King Biscuit Flower Hour, a concert recorded 01/18/75 at The Academy of Music in New York City. Listening to it it's hard to believe anyone can play that well that consistently. I've seen SFA live, and they're amazing and everything, but from the sound of this disc, I don't think there's many bands that could keep up with Gentle Giant.

― gargantua, Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Chuck, 'Giant For A Day' is far from their classic, released in '78 when punk was happening and prog was beyond cliche. Many fans think it's their worst. 'Octopus' and 'Free Hand' rank pretty highly. I'd second the vote for 'Power and the Glory,' but it's a more difficult listen. But I'm not gonna debate GG with anyone whose online name includes Panurge and Pantagruel; I'm clearly out of my league!

― Daniel Peterson (polkaholic), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:39 (nineteen years ago) link

seriously... I've just been schooled, and need to track down a bootleg called 'King Biscuit Flower Hour'

― milton parker (Jon L), Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:54 (nineteen years ago) link

It's not a bootleg, Milton. At least I don't think. King Biscuit does a series of releases for all sorts of lower-profile bands they've played live on their radio show. I bet Amazon has a copy. I've lent it to friends to try to convince them prog isn't all bad. It hasn't worked so far. But whatever, I think it's pretty great. Some of the playing is so intense, in such bizarre compositions, I just think, Fuck.

― gargantua, Thursday, 7 April 2005 18:59 (nineteen years ago) link

just found it online, it looks legit... (I had heard of the radio show before, but hadn't investigated much)... it's got nearly the same track listing as 'playing the fool' though, so maybe

I agree with you, the live recordings are great... more impressive to hear people pulling off this material on a stage than in a studio

― milton parker (Jon L), Thursday, 7 April 2005 19:06 (nineteen years ago) link

No, Chuck, "Giant for a Day" wasn't classic by any measure. "Spooky Boogie" and "Little Brown Bag" from it are two of the most conventional things in their catalog. If you're a Gentle Giant purist, you probably consider it heresy. Their string had just about run out when "Giant for a Day" was published and it was one of those records where they and the record company had glommed onto the idea that they could be a prog-punk band, or at least do some vaguely pop rock and roll. "The Last Steps" is a live record that documents it with some mixed success. You hear the band at the Whisky in LA doing punked-up shouty prog and art.

"Octopus," "Gentle Giant," "Acquiring the Taste," "Freehand" show them off at maximum. "Knots" from "Octopus" can determine whether you like anything the band does or not. "Advent of Panurge," "The House the Street, the Room" from "Acquiring" are good. The albums I like are where the guitar is most thud-like, usually when Visconti produced them early on. They didn't rock much but were capable of being violent, loud and jagged, even with a bunch of voices going in harmony.

So, I'm with Daniel Peterson.

You gonna review "Freehand"?

― George Smith, Thursday, 7 April 2005 19:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Gentle Giant fun fact: Derek Shulman, GG vocalist, almost single-handedly invented hair metal while a big-wig at Phonogram in the Eighties.

― George Smith, Thursday, 7 April 2005 19:22 (nineteen years ago) link

four years pass...

derek shulman never pulled a neon neon

― kamerad, Wednesday, 8 April 2009 02:30 (fifteen years ago) link

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