― Alex Freeman, Monday, 9 February 2004 12:17 (9 years ago) Permalink
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Monday, 9 February 2004 12:19 (9 years ago) Permalink
― robin (robin), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 02:36 (9 years ago) Permalink
― pete s, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 02:39 (9 years ago) Permalink
RFD: Indian musicCarnatic Music Recommendations?
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 10 February 2004 10:34 (9 years ago) Permalink
― neil kulkarni, Tuesday, 10 February 2004 14:39 (9 years ago) Permalink
― RS, Friday, 13 May 2005 12:59 (8 years ago) Permalink
― RS, Friday, 13 May 2005 13:02 (8 years ago) Permalink
― mullygrubbr (bulbs), Friday, 13 May 2005 13:08 (8 years ago) Permalink
http://www.senseworldmusic.com/acatalog/Darshan_Info.htmlAudio sample at:http://www.musicalnirvana.com/specials/gundecha_brothers_026.html
― mike t-diva (mike t-diva), Friday, 13 May 2005 13:11 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Ogmor Roundtrouser (Ogmor Roundtrouser), Friday, 13 May 2005 13:30 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Friday, 13 May 2005 13:36 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Hurting (Hurting), Friday, 13 May 2005 14:16 (8 years ago) Permalink
― Austin Still (Austin, Still), Friday, 13 May 2005 15:31 (8 years ago) Permalink
― m0stly clean (m0stly clean), Friday, 13 May 2005 15:52 (8 years ago) Permalink
Austin, Kunnakudi Vaidyanathan, a Karnatak violinist mentioned by Sundar in the past, is pretty interesting although I have nothing interesting to say about him.
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Saturday, 1 July 2006 00:29 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 1 July 2006 00:42 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 1 July 2006 00:45 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Saturday, 1 July 2006 00:48 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 1 July 2006 02:13 (6 years ago) Permalink
The song itself, which is known as the dhrupad, is preceded in performance by a wholly improvised section, the alap, without accompaniment of the drum. The alap in dhrupad is sung without words, using instead a set of syllables in a recurrent, set pattern: a re ne na, té te re ne na, ri re re ne na, te ne toom ne (this last group is used in cadences to reach the tonic or the end of a long phrase). The syllables are like various colours on the palette of the painter and are popularly thought to be derived from a sacred mantra.Today, alap comprises the greater part of most dhrupad performance. It can easily last an hour, with a slow tempo and gradual, controlled development of melody (raga). It is broadly subdivided into alap (unmetered), jor (with steady rhythm) and jhalla (speeding up) or nomtom. In this last part, the syllables are sung at a very rapid pace, sometimes incorporating very special-sounding ornamentation techniques (gamaka), and the nomtom has become one of the most popular parts of dhrupad concerts.
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 1 July 2006 02:21 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Saturday, 1 July 2006 10:51 (6 years ago) Permalink
― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 1 July 2006 11:40 (6 years ago) Permalink
Also, trying to talk about what I like and don't like about it just brings out my insanely finicky side. If you have ever found my comments about what I like and don't like about jazz irritating, I think you'd find my comments on what I like and don't like in Indian music even more irritating. It's a lot like jazz in that there's something I find appealing about the whole improvised dynamic and the virtuosity, but at the same time there's usually something that pushes me away (rhythms, timbres, whatever).
A little OT on an Indian classical music thread, but I did just buy the new Sunny Jain Collective CD, Avaaz, and I mostly really like it (which is probably another reason I'm asking questions about Indian music again).
Also, I rarely travel north of Spring Garden, west of 20th Street, or south of Pine Street! Anyway, I don't think taking a random Indian grocery store approach to this would work, because of my fussiness, but then again, I guess I could go with a list in hand. I'm just afraid I would come home with a bunch of great recordings that the store owner would push on me, and that I would end up not liking.
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Saturday, 1 July 2006 12:06 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Saturday, 1 July 2006 12:34 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Saturday, 1 July 2006 13:00 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Saturday, 1 July 2006 14:00 (6 years ago) Permalink
Yeah sorry, you're right. Dhrupad is like the ancient form (though still practiced by some, I guess). There is also the khayal genre.
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 1 July 2006 15:42 (6 years ago) Permalink
The whole extended raga performance structure, I should have said.
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 1 July 2006 15:56 (6 years ago) Permalink
Very approachable for those wanting an intro to Indian music but don't have the patience/context to sit through lengthy Ragas just yet.
― and PappaWheelie, author of Have You Ever Been Poxy Fuled? (PappaWheelie 2), Wednesday, 20 September 2006 20:19 (6 years ago) Permalink
I am interested in this singer:
― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 7 November 2007 18:43 (5 years ago) Permalink
that sounds nice
Can anyone recommend Indian classical vocal recordings in which the alap section goes on and on? (How long can it get?
-- Rockist_Scientist (RSLaRue), Saturday, July 1, 2006 12:29 AM (1 year ago) Bookmark Link
Ajoy Chakrabarty (sometimes romanicized as Chakraborty) sometimes stretches the alap out for upwards of 20 minutes, and keeps it mellow even once the tempo settles in
I've only got those mp3's and Rama Khamaj
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 7 November 2007 19:48 (5 years ago) Permalink
Ah, I had a CD by his daughter, I think. I couldn't get into it, so I donated it to the library. I will probably regret it eventually, but I won't really regret it since in the mean time lots of other people are getting to hear it.
― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 7 November 2007 19:58 (5 years ago) Permalink
― Rockist Scientist, Wednesday, 7 November 2007 20:04 (5 years ago) Permalink
the intro of Ajoy's 'Thumri Kajri' sends me lidded every time
― Milton Parker, Wednesday, 7 November 2007 21:28 (5 years ago) Permalink
― eman, Sunday, 2 November 2008 02:46 (4 years ago) Permalink
"When it comes to recordings of the non Western classical traditions, I think David. B. Jones has to ranked at the very top. He is the one who did the Connoisseur Society (their technical "guru" was Bela Bartok's son Peter!) recordings of Ustad Ali Akbar Khan, the greatest living Indian musician. Jones also did some of the Nonesuch recordings as well (the really good ones) employing the same Sony tube mikes he used to record Dr. Khan. Check out the Ramnad Krishnan title on Nonesuch.
There are also many, many Indian EMI recordings that are truly superlative. Mostly it was the vinyl that was dismal (even this, they got it right at times!), but the recordings themselves, mostly were good and sometimes outstanding. Simple mike techniques and tube electronics did the trick. I have a Malika Arjun Mansoor recording that is at the top of the list. So is the M.S. Subbulakshmi boxed set of LPs recorded "live" at a UN gala for UThant. In spite of the most embarrassing and hideously ugly song in English (!) by Indial politician Rajaji, these LPs capture the queen in all her glory. Then, there are the many Yugal Bandi recordings. The first one is of course the original Bismillah Khan/Vilayat Khan pairing. This great recording was produced by Suviraj Grubb, the only Indian to ever produce Western classical recordings. He replaced Walter Legge at EMI as the principal producer and worked with all the greats, from Barenboim, Zukerman, Perlman and Du Pre to Barbirolli, Richter, Fischer-Dieskau and Klemperer. I must also mention the V.G. Jog and Bismillah pairing which is also great. The recording of Lalgudi Jayaraman and N. Ramani titled "Violin, Venu, Veena" also tops the list. Some good recordings were also released on the Swedish label Amigo (two of Nikil Banerjee and one each of Amjad Ali Khan and RamNarayan) while Sonet put out the most beautiful yugal bandi recording with Shivkumar and Hariprasad.
The German label Loft, among other titles, released an excellent double LP of the junior Dagar Brothers, and the French label Still, which along with a surbahar recording of Imrat Khan, has released the only recordings (two LP boxed sets) worth having, of the Karnatic legend T.R. Mahalingam. The other two recordings of Mali, on Indian EMI, are truly horrid. Taking of French labels, two outstanding recordings of Zia Mohinudinn Dager (Rudra vina) on Alvares and Auvidis respectively. The later also released a good recording of the junior Dagar Brothers. Another label called ESP put out ten or so recordings, of which there is a Hari Prasad that is wonderful, as is the one of Fariduddin Dagar (vocalist brother of Zia). Their recording of the Bauls, though of a lesser crew than the Purnadas (the very same man on the cover of Dylan's "John Wesly Harding" album) outfit on Nonesuch, Electra and Buddah, sonically is the best. Barclay (a jazz label started by the beautiful Nicole Barclay) too, released two recordings of Nagaswara Rao (vina), the same artist on Nonesuch, as did French CBS, a recording of Emani Shankar Shastry. Another French woman started Shandar that released a great recording of Pandit Pran Nath, as well as Terry Reily's "Persian Surgery Dervishes". Arion released a very good recording of D.K. Pattamal, while Vogue has an outstanding recording of Parapancham Sita Ram (Karnatic flute) with Guruvayur Dorai on mirdangam.
Chante du Monde has a very fine collection of Flamenco with great masters such as Pepe de la Metrona, with equally great sound. Andre Charlin made not just great speakers (electrostatic/dynamic hybrids) and amps (tube and solid state) but also truly great recordings, though most of them were of Western Classical music. He did however do a Koto (like Cook) recording for Kenwood (yes, the ones who made one of the greatest turntables, the LO7D). I have a feeling that Charlin was responsible (or at least partly) for the ORTF technique. Having mentioned France, I certainly must mention the great Indologist Alain Danielou, who edited the wonderful UNESCO collection of recordings. Though the sound on many of these is rather poor, having been done by some "ethnomusicologist" with a cassette recorder and mikes with wind screens, two recordings do stand out. They are the LP of the Dagar Brothers (Sr) and a Karnatic compilation with vocal tracks by Semanguddi Srinivasa Iyar. Though these recordings are in mono, the sound and performance are out of this world!Danielou introduced the Dager Brothers to the West in the early 60s. I have heard that Nadia Boulanger, the great Parisian music teacher, after hearing the Dagar Brothers remarked "This is real music! We have been wasting our time!".
Last but not least, there is the French Ocora catalog, a treasure to ransom a king, with many, many outstanding recordings of the most exotic music. Check out the Munir Bashir (Oud) recording or the Emani Shankar Shastry (vina) recording with Madras Kannan on mirdangam! I also have a Portuguese EMI recording of Amilia Rodriguez that is outstanding.
From the UK, Tangent had a steady out put including a collection of music from Ethiopia, as well the "Music from the World of Islam" boxed set. But, Tangent never had truly great sound. Speaking of UK, I must mention the Hannibal recording of Nazakat and Salamat Ali, which is good. Another forgotten hero is Ron Marlo of Chess. Listen to the Muddy Waters "Folk Singer" LP and the "live" Ahmed Jamal LP titled "Alhambra". Emory Cook is another great who has also been forgotten. Way back in the 50s, he was releasing recordings of the Tarahumara Indian (the very ones Antonin Artaud "visited") peyote chants, as well as Hindu temple music from the Caribbean!!! Richard Bock of World Pacific also released great recordings; one in particular is the "live" recording of Vina Vidwan S. Balachander with N. Ramani. So is the recording of Brij Bhushan Kabra.
Jones, Malo, Cook, Bock, Danielou and Grubb, these are the men that I respect and hold in high esteem. They wrote the ground rules and charted the way and made it possible for the likes of me. The rest, including myself, are like the blind men with the elephant in a dark room! Groping in the dark, stumbling into mike stands, tripping over cables, spilling hot tea onto the tapes... and splitting hairs over the purity of the copper (or silver!) in the mike cables or the brand of tubes used!
The little I know, I learnt from listening to the recordings listed above and following carefully the works of the masters mentioned, who were my inspiration. To them I offer my gratitude.
Kavi Alexander... "
― Lil' Kim Philby (Call the Cops), Sunday, 4 March 2012 20:53 (1 year ago) Permalink
[08Mar11 21:14:29][Geeratsha] tomyum is a Thai soup, and Canterbury is a region where I live now[08Mar11 21:15:03][tomyum] yes, i love that soup![08Mar11 21:15:15][Geeratsha] everybody does[08Mar11 21:15:38][tomyum] haha, i guess you're right![08Mar11 21:15:44][Geeratsha] i lived 12 years in Thailand, and had Thai food every day[08Mar11 21:16:02][tomyum] you're very fortunate, then![08Mar11 21:16:15][Geeratsha] yes i know[08Mar11 21:16:37][tomyum] i am trying to teach myself about indian music[08Mar11 21:17:07][Geeratsha] less fortunate in Canterbury, the main city is Christchurch, which has big big earthquakes 4th September + 22 February[08Mar11 21:17:16][tomyum] that's awful[08Mar11 21:18:17][Geeratsha] yes, just got the plumber to repair two broken water pipes, so I have running water again![08Mar11 21:18:38][tomyum] oh, thank goodness. that is good to hear[08Mar11 21:18:52][tomyum] now you can make some tomyum soup[08Mar11 21:18:54][Geeratsha] i count myself among the lucky ones[08Mar11 21:19:16][Geeratsha] haha, i really cannot cook Thai: I had a cook living at home ![08Mar11 21:19:22][tomyum] ah[08Mar11 21:21:01][Geeratsha] she wanted to come to New Zealand with me... but shee did not speak a word of English, and in NZ we cannot afford to maintain our own cooks...[08Mar11 21:21:14][tomyum] oh, too bad[08Mar11 21:23:33][Geeratsha] there was a little group of Indian music fans in Bangkok, gathering monthly[08Mar11 21:23:48][tomyum] oh, nice[08Mar11 21:23:51][Geeratsha] i did go every month[08Mar11 21:24:09][Geeratsha] sometimes visitors musicians came through and performed for us[08Mar11 21:24:17][tomyum] oh, that's great[08Mar11 21:24:32][Geeratsha] indeed, intimate gathering, everybody sitting on the floor[08Mar11 21:24:44][tomyum] nice[08Mar11 21:24:56][Geeratsha] Pandid Maniram was one [the brother of Pandit Jasraj][08Mar11 21:25:13][Geeratsha] *Pandit, not pandid[08Mar11 21:25:33][tomyum] i'm afraid i dont recognize their names, but i will research them[08Mar11 21:25:55][Geeratsha] and Swami Vallabhdas[08Mar11 21:26:16][Geeratsha] i am sharing some files by them[08Mar11 21:26:26][tomyum] oh, ok[08Mar11 21:27:03][Geeratsha] Ravi Shankar passed through and I met him twice [at cocktail parties in his honour][08Mar11 21:27:18][tomyum] wow[08Mar11 21:27:20][Geeratsha] he is fluent in french, because he grew up in Paris[08Mar11 21:27:58][tomyum] oh[08Mar11 21:28:26][Geeratsha] so we chatted in French, and some wowmen were giving me a bad look, jealous i suppose ;-)[08Mar11 21:28:42][tomyum] haha[08Mar11 21:29:20][tomyum] too much charm[08Mar11 21:29:36][Geeratsha] yes, he had a "bad reputation" then ;-)[08Mar11 21:29:44][tomyum] haha[08Mar11 21:30:30][Geeratsha] he was indeed charming, but his tabla player was my favourite: Alla Rakha[08Mar11 21:30:40][tomyum] ok[08Mar11 21:31:27][Geeratsha] where are you located ?[08Mar11 21:31:49][tomyum] i live in the u.s.[08Mar11 21:32:29][Geeratsha] plenty of Indian musicians give recitals in US[08Mar11 21:32:59][tomyum] yes, i am going to keep my eyes open in the future to take advantage of that[08Mar11 21:33:31][Geeratsha] try to go to small gathering rather than big concerts[08Mar11 21:33:38][tomyum] yes?[08Mar11 21:33:46][tomyum] why do you recommend that especially?[08Mar11 21:33:49][Geeratsha] yes, more intimate, less commercial[08Mar11 21:33:53][tomyum] i see[08Mar11 21:33:57][tomyum] that makes sense[08Mar11 21:34:19][Geeratsha] in India, house conceerts [bhaitak] are common[08Mar11 21:34:26][tomyum] how wonderful[08Mar11 21:34:31][Geeratsha] they gather just to practice[08Mar11 21:34:47][tomyum] that sounds so great[08Mar11 21:34:53][Geeratsha] and family and friends and children join in[08Mar11 21:35:01][tomyum] beautiful[08Mar11 21:35:17][Geeratsha] kids always perform first, then the adults get on with their recital[08Mar11 21:35:24][tomyum] i see[08Mar11 21:35:33][Geeratsha] that is how children get used to the atmosphere[08Mar11 21:35:41][Geeratsha] and they are never shy[08Mar11 21:35:52][tomyum] ah[08Mar11 21:39:47][Geeratsha] search: Swami Vallabhdas - live, bangkok may 1961[08Mar11 21:40:01][Geeratsha] there are some jpgs photos in the folder[08Mar11 21:41:07][tomyum] ok. [08Mar11 21:41:21][tomyum] oh my goodness, you have so much wonderful stuff there that you are sharing[08Mar11 21:41:22][Geeratsha] i recorded thee tracks myself, with a little portable sony recorder [08Mar11 21:41:31][tomyum] ah[08Mar11 21:42:52][Geeratsha] aha but i have been collecting for a dozen years at least[08Mar11 21:42:52][Geeratsha] the Swami used to travel and stop in Bangkok and give daily recitals[08Mar11 21:43:00][Geeratsha] he was collecting money for building his music school[08Mar11 21:43:07][tomyum] oh[08Mar11 21:43:26][Geeratsha] he had his own tabla and harmonium players travelling with him[08Mar11 21:43:53][Geeratsha] the harmonium player was a blind man who also sang[08Mar11 21:45:30][Geeratsha] then they could not get a visa for the blindman in Thailand, so they stopped coming :-([08Mar11 21:45:30][Geeratsha] ut while they were there theye performed every evening and the whole group + friends joined in[08Mar11 21:45:30][Geeratsha] the atmosphere was fantastic: we all got high![08Mar11 21:45:54][tomyum] wow, that all sounds amazing[08Mar11 21:46:16][Geeratsha] yes i am grateful that i could be part of that[08Mar11 21:46:40][Geeratsha] i have never been in India, even though I know many Indians[08Mar11 21:47:14][tomyum] oh. why i have you never been there?[08Mar11 21:48:07][Geeratsha] well, my work was in Bangkok, and then i emigrated to New Zealand[08Mar11 21:48:29][tomyum] where are you from originally?[08Mar11 21:48:43][Geeratsha] born in Lausanne, french speaking part of Switzerland[08Mar11 21:48:51][tomyum] ah[08Mar11 21:49:13][Geeratsha] my husband was from Egypt and studying architecture in Lausanne[08Mar11 21:49:28][Geeratsha] when he got his final diploma he wanted to go to India, or Japan[08Mar11 21:49:33][tomyum] ok[08Mar11 21:50:22][Geeratsha] so I sent his CV round but the replies weree no thanks, enough of good architercts, can come to India to make soaps in an ashram...[08Mar11 21:50:33][tomyum] haha[08Mar11 21:50:39][Geeratsha] same story about Japan. So we ended up halfway between India and Japan: BANGKOK[08Mar11 21:50:48][tomyum] interesting[08Mar11 21:51:22][Geeratsha] so he designed and built the Swiss Embassy compound in Bangkok, which took several years[08Mar11 21:51:30][tomyum] wow[08Mar11 21:52:29][Geeratsha] then he went back to Europe [with his Thai secretary] and i remained in Bangkok [with my Thai boyfriend, a ballet dancer!][08Mar11 21:52:52][tomyum] ahaha. sounds like you've lived quite an interesting life thusfar[08Mar11 21:53:03][Geeratsha] right[08Mar11 21:53:16][Geeratsha] i never imagined that i would have such a life[08Mar11 21:53:50][Geeratsha] i also must say that i was there at the right time[08Mar11 21:53:59][Geeratsha] life was fabulous then[08Mar11 21:54:04][tomyum] in bangkok?[08Mar11 21:54:08][Geeratsha] yes[08Mar11 21:54:18][tomyum] when was this?[08Mar11 21:54:25][Geeratsha] just during and after the Vietnam War[08Mar11 21:54:32][Geeratsha] in the 60s[08Mar11 21:54:34][tomyum] oh. [08Mar11 21:55:04][tomyum] i can imagine how that would have been a fantastic time[08Mar11 21:55:12][Geeratsha] the American soldiers were all ...[oops aftershock here] coming for their rests to Bangkok[08Mar11 21:55:36][tomyum] yikes, hold on there[08Mar11 21:55:38][tomyum] oh i see[08Mar11 21:58:34][Geeratsha] why don't you get abother file/folder[08Mar11 21:58:42][Geeratsha] you have a long way to catch up ;-)[08Mar11 21:58:45][tomyum] haha[08Mar11 21:59:20][tomyum] i really should but i am having trouble even thinking straight at the moment...feeling a little ill[08Mar11 22:00:19][Geeratsha] oh, take a rest then, plenty of time although i come in soulseek on and off[08Mar11 22:01:01][tomyum] ok, i will keep that in mind. lovely chatting with you, and thank you for sharing all the wonderful music. take fabulous care of yourself![08Mar11 22:01:23][Geeratsha] ok, see you around ;-)
― dell (del), Monday, 5 March 2012 19:39 (1 year ago) Permalink
― curmudgeon, Monday, 5 March 2012 19:44 (1 year ago) Permalink
Wish I had seen this gig
― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 22 May 2012 17:30 (1 year ago) Permalink
this record is really something else
― Inconceivable (to the entire world) (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Monday, 24 September 2012 02:38 (8 months ago) Permalink
"Also recommended....MASTER MUSICIANS OF BUKKAKE"
― Bob Six, Monday, 24 September 2012 07:24 (8 months ago) Permalink
Feeling it straight away! - thanks.
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 24 September 2012 21:24 (8 months ago) Permalink