I think he is pretty classic.
Search:Cybotron - Clear (Fantasy)Kreem - Triangle Of Love 12" (KMS) (feat. Juan, Kevin and Derrick)Juan Atkins Feat. 3mb - Jazz Is The Teacher 12" (Metroplex/Tresor)Model 500 - Classics (R&S) (easier than listing all the early 12"s)Model 500 - Sonic Sunset (R&S)Model 500 - Deep Space (R&S)Model 600 - Update (Metroplex)Juan Atkins - Timeless (Metroplex)
Infiniti - Skynet/Infiniti Collection
(nothing wrong with this stuff, I never cared for it personally)
I still have not heard Mind and Body on R&S.
What do you think?
― Former Supposed So Called Nihilist Teenage Drug Disco Addiction Counselor (mjt), Saturday, 17 January 2004 22:10 (11 years ago) Permalink
i would take deep space off the "search" list. it's beautifully, amazingly produced, yes, but lots of the songs are just sort of there. they tend, to drift a bit, y'know?
i would add the track that they did with 4hero (i think it was called "the fusion formula") to the list, i also have a soft spot for the "infiniti" collection because it has his jumpiest, most hyper and wired tracks. also it has "think quick" and "game one"!! those tracks are great!!
i prefer the more commercial mix he did for waxtrax! to "timeless".
ummm ... sonic sunset IS awesome, yes.
Have you heard the "never tempt me" remixes? (cristian vogel, etc.) i've been waiting to hear those.
i heard he's been ill. :(
― vahid (vahid), Saturday, 17 January 2004 22:20 (11 years ago) Permalink
― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 17 January 2004 22:36 (11 years ago) Permalink
― scott seward (scott seward), Saturday, 17 January 2004 22:37 (11 years ago) Permalink
I think the Infiniti stuff is mostly great.
3MB/"Sonic Sunset"/ Deep Space/ Classics are all excellent.
As far as his being ill: I dunno. He dj'ed at APT here in NYC recently and he just seemed slimmer than usual, but healthy. Eating sushi, drinking water (I noticed 'cause I spoke to him for a little bit while he ate). He was super cool and his set that night was the best I've ever heard him spin.
― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Saturday, 17 January 2004 22:42 (11 years ago) Permalink
I think it comes down to different taste, I think my biggest problem with the Infiniti material was that it was not sprawling enough. It kinda read like cash-in dance for the royalty check. I liked the sound design, but I think Juan could have taken the concept of tracky dance music so much farther. It just seemed overly simplistic and loopy. I would have liked more complex percussion and more interesting chord voicings over that bare-bones loop. I am as down with minimalism as anybody, but I still think there is room to be clever in the style. Infiniti never struck me as being well concieved or executed as anything Bell, Hood or Mills did back then.
I still haven't heard Never Tempt Me Remixes, I woud be interested in hearing them. Although I liked a lot of the Sativae based artists a lot at the time, the thought of a Cristian Vogel remix kind makes me cringe. :) I am totally trying to hunt down the 1995 Neil Landstrumm remix of Strings Of Life.
I have seen pictures of Juan that kinda confirm the rumors that have been floating around over the years. That subject is touchy, and I don't know enough about it to throw his personal business around on ILM.
I will say that Techno Music by Model 500 is the shit.
― Former Supposed So Called Nihilist Teenage Drug Disco Addiction Counselor (mjt), Saturday, 17 January 2004 22:44 (11 years ago) Permalink
― oops (Oops), Saturday, 17 January 2004 22:52 (11 years ago) Permalink
― disco stu (disco stu), Saturday, 17 January 2004 22:57 (11 years ago) Permalink
― donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 17 January 2004 22:58 (11 years ago) Permalink
i couldn't get into the timeless mix
― disco stu (disco stu), Saturday, 17 January 2004 22:59 (11 years ago) Permalink
― Andy K (Andy K), Saturday, 17 January 2004 23:23 (11 years ago) Permalink
― Stringent (Stringent), Saturday, 17 January 2004 23:42 (11 years ago) Permalink
m69 Starlight is my favorite model 500 track and one of my favorite tracks of all time.
― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 00:52 (11 years ago) Permalink
― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 01:56 (11 years ago) Permalink
― Aaron Grossman (aajjgg), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 03:24 (11 years ago) Permalink
Sorry to gush but he is one of those I go to for reaffirmation. Strangely though the one time I saw him DJ I didnt like it.
― hector (hector), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 04:02 (11 years ago) Permalink
― the music mole (colin s barrow), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 04:03 (11 years ago) Permalink
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 09:44 (11 years ago) Permalink
― stevem (blueski), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 09:45 (11 years ago) Permalink
― rentboy (rentboy), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 15:17 (11 years ago) Permalink
― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 15:19 (11 years ago) Permalink
Wow. That's what I was listening to as I read this! WTF?!
― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Tuesday, 18 May 2004 15:20 (11 years ago) Permalink
01. Juan Atkins - Alleys of your mind02. Juan Atkins - Future03. Juan Atkins - Starlight04. Juan Atkins - Vessels in Distress05. Juan Atkins - Technicolor06. Juan Atkins - The Chase07. Juan Atkins - R908. Juan Atkins - Game one09. Juan Atkins - Jazz is the teacher10. Juan Atkins - Cosmic Cars11. Juan Atkins - Wanna Be There12. Juan Atkins - Clear13. Juan Atkins - Dreammaker14. Juan Atkins - Skyway15. Juan Atkins - No ufo`s16. Juan Atkins - Nightdrive (Thru babylon)17. Juan Atkins - Ocean to Ocean18. Juan Atkins - Somthing about the music19. Juan Atkins - Off the battle20. Juan Atkins - Cosmic raindance21. Juan Atkins - The flow22. Juan Atkins - Other side of life23. Juan Atkins - The passage
― fandango (fandango), Thursday, 28 April 2005 23:53 (10 years ago) Permalink
― vahid (vahid), Friday, 29 April 2005 00:07 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Friday, 29 April 2005 00:10 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Friday, 29 April 2005 00:30 (10 years ago) Permalink
― tylero (tylero), Friday, 29 April 2005 00:34 (10 years ago) Permalink
Where's this version of "The Chase" from? It's a little different, is this the original?
Slightly different to the one I had already (on Flux Trax 2) is that a remix?.
― fandango (fandango), Saturday, 14 May 2005 14:09 (10 years ago) Permalink
― $V£N! (blueski), Saturday, 14 May 2005 14:19 (10 years ago) Permalink
sounds very Drexciyan to my ears.. but that might be the influence of the title perhaps.
― fandango (fandango), Saturday, 14 May 2005 14:26 (10 years ago) Permalink
Think I'll just listen to this all before I post again :)
― fandango (fandango), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:16 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Hans Veneman (veneman), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:25 (10 years ago) Permalink
― latebloomer: the rebel sound of grits and bacon (latebloomer), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:31 (10 years ago) Permalink
― Disco Nihilist (mjt), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:37 (10 years ago) Permalink
And for comparisons ....
Juan Atkins - Metroplex 1985-2005 (http://www.discogs.com/release/441574)
1-01 Cybotron Alleys Of Your Mind (3:34)1-02 Model 500 Future (4:54)1-03 Model 500 Starlight (6:27)1-04 Model 500 Vessels In Distress (5:20)1-05 Channel One Technicolor (6:50)1-06 Model 500 The Chase (5:42)1-07 Cybotron R9 (5:15)1-08 Infiniti Game One (5:40)1-09 3MB Jazz Is The Teacher (9:41) Featuring - Magic Juan1-10 Cybotron Cosmic Cars (4:23)1-11 Model 500 Wanna Be There (6:44)2-01 Cybotron Clear (4:55)2-02 Cybotron Dreammaker (5:44)2-03 Infiniti Skyway (5:55)2-04 Model 500 No UFO's (7:04)2-05 Model 500 Nightdrive (Thru Babylon) (6:11)2-06 Model 500 Ocean To Ocean (5:49)2-07 Juan Atkins Something About The Music (3:50)2-08 Model 500 Off To Battle (6:05)2-09 Cybotron Cosmic Raindance (4:02)2-10 Model 500 The Flow (4:18)2-11 Visions Other Side Of Life (5:08)2-12 Model 500 The Passage (7:30)
Model 500 - Classics (http://www.discogs.com/release/12417)
1 No UFO's (Remix) (6:58)2 The Chase (Smooth Mix) (5:42)3 Off To Battle (Remix) (6:04)4 Night Drive (Time, Space, Transmat) (6:04)5 Electric Entourage (6:46)6 Electronic (Remix) (6:00)7 Ocean To Ocean (Instrumental) (6:42)8 Techno Music (M500 Version) (5:35)9 Sound Of Stereo (6:51)
I'm not really complaining, there are some liner notes, but the sparseness of details about each of the tracks (I'd at least like to know *exactly* when each track was from, for whatever reason) and the basic to non-existent artwork makes me a tiny bit sad.
― fandango (fandango), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:44 (10 years ago) Permalink
― latebloomer: the rebel sound of grits and bacon (latebloomer), Saturday, 14 May 2005 15:48 (10 years ago) Permalink
It is still a shame that Deep Space isn't the first record that comes to mind when people make their best 90's electronic album lists. I have a feeling that this comp will do a lot of remedy the situation.
I would have liked to see Infoworld on this comp as well; still, it is damn good.
How was the Berlin Sessions record? I haven't heard it yet, and Austin doesn't have a specialist dance record store.
― Disco Nihilist (mjt), Saturday, 14 May 2005 18:54 (10 years ago) Permalink
The Roots of Techno
Juan Atkins was playing techno when most of its current practitioners were playing in the schoolyard.
By Dan Sicko
Berry Gordy's Motown may no longer rule the airwaves, but Detroit has found a new beat. Since 1981, the compositions of techno visionary Juan Atkins have sent shock waves through contemporary music. On the heels of the German group Kraftwerk, he and partner Rick Davis formed Cybotron, fusing austere European techno-pop with street-level funk. In 1985, Atkins formed Metroplex Records, not knowing that his unique brand of techno would soon inspire the anthems and soundtracks of the digital age -- the latest world music.
Wired spoke with Atkins about his early inspirations and how they may bring about musical metamorphosis on a wider scale. His current projects include the 12-inch single "I See the Light" (Metroplex, Detroit) and the LP Sonic Sunset (R&S Records, Belgium), both under the moniker "Model 500."
Wired: What is your definition of techno? Is it essentially a combination of technology and funk?
Yes. It's interesting, because I met Karl Bartos (formerly of Kraftwerk) and he told me that one of his influences was
James Brown. Today, I think "techno" is a term to describe and introduce all kinds of electronic music. In fact, there were a lot of electronic musicians around when Cybotron started, and I think maybe half of them referred to their music as "techno." However, the public really wasn't ready for it until about '85 or '86. It just so happened that Detroit was there when people really got into it.
What separates Detroit techno from other music, like Chicago's house movement?
It's always been about insight and forward thinking. It goes as far as the science fiction I was into early on and the class I took in high school called "Future Studies." One of the textbooks I had to read was Alvin Toffler's Future Shock. Also, Detroit is unlike any other city in the transitions it has endured. When your surroundings change, you go through change.
You've said elsewhere that the term "techno"was partially taken from Toffler's term "techno-rebels" in The Third Wave -- those who didn't see the need for technology to be overwhelming or alienating. Does this concept have anything to do with techno's use of older analog synthesizers or keeping the production of vinyl alive?
We never tried to apply any of those principles. The Third Wave was only inspirational, although we did use hybrid words like "cybotron" and "metroplex," and Toffler spoke of these futuristic combinations.
Techno-rebels notwithstanding, some technologies are absorbed very quickly into our culture. Does it surprise you how slowly the United States has embraced electronic music, dance-oriented or otherwise?
Not surprised, really. Disappointed is the word. I was more surprised when I first went to Europe and found that white kids could enjoy dance music. In this country it's very hard for creative thought to escape capitalism.
How then do you explain the emergence of Detroit as an aesthetic Mecca for electronic dance music, as opposed to larger cities like New York and LA?
Let's remember Detroit is representative of the whole Industrial Revolution. When that came to a close, it was the first place hit. And because of its lack of status, it's a lot more depressed than other areas. That forces people to be creative.
This creativity and work ethic, although a social requirement of sorts, hasn't led to real status in the American music industry. Why is it that you and other Detroit techno artists aren't officially recognized as high-caliber musicians and producers?
You have to wonder how, with as much press as we have received worldwide, why we still don't have a proper record deal. (Pauses.) Maybe in the marketing departments out there, there really are people who think that a white techno act is more marketable than a black one.... I don't know.
What do you think is the problem with the way music is presented to the masses?
There has to be a revolution in radio in America. Instead of me complaining, I'd rather take an active role as a program director and change all that. If I'm the only guy to take a station and set an example, then that's what I'll do. I can also guarantee that this station would be Number One in its market within a year.
There are signs of this "neo-urban" music starting to flourish: LA's URB Magazine, more and more stateside techno tours. Is this the kind of movement you're hoping for?
Yes. Definitely. There is no outlet for (techno artists). Right now they put out 12-inch singles and sell 2,000 to 3,000 copies and get discouraged. The basic problem is that in America, if you don't fit into a radio format, you don't really exist.
Given the structured and commercial nature of radio, do you see those conventions bending to variety and innovation? Even public radio seems to be "going corporate" these days.
However I have to get into radio -- digital cable FM, low-power radio -- that's what I'll do. I want to see techno take off on a major level, and I don't agree that as soon as the money comes in, it will dilute the quality of the music.
You've said that people are ready for something different, that they have caught up with technology to a certain degree. What kind of encouragement do you have that radio will not continue to stagnate?
There was a time seven or eight years ago when you could go into a city and four out of five people didn't know what a sequencer was. Now maybe one out of five doesn't. There is a ton of music here, kids are buying Roland and Korg keyboards. And what are they doing? They're not making ballads!
Metroplex Records: fax +1 (313) 963 0213.
― Disco Nihilist (mjt), Saturday, 14 May 2005 19:00 (10 years ago) Permalink
Black to the FutureJuan Atkins on the vision thingby Derrick Mathis
Jaun Atkins It's the age-old thing of black America inventing something and white England digging it and working it out into a more palatable form. You'd say all the stars are English, but the guys I name as my heroes are black Americans.
--Norman Cook, a.k.a. Fatboy Slim, in Playboy
JUAN ATKINS, A.K.A. THE GODFATHER OF TECHNO, recently landed his first multi-record deal with an American label. Read that sentence again. Notice the word recently. Now consider this. It was 1981 when Detroit sent out a new groove that reverberated around the world. And the DNA strands of that groove were created by Juan Atkins and his partner Rick Davis, who formed Cybotron and cranked out what are now considered some of finest pieces of electronic experimentation today, including "Clear," "Techno City" and the haunting "Visions."
In '84, after parting ways with Davis, Atkins, under the moniker Model 500, produced what some call the most essential body of techno to date. Around this time Atkins began collaborating on some projects with high school mates Derrick May and Kevin Saunderson. All three went on to become internationally respected producers and performers, referred to collectively in the dance music community as "the innovators."
But among the trio, Atkins alone is consistently referred to as the originator. An Angeleno for the past two years, he spends every weekend on the road playing gigs around the country. This has been an exceptionally prolific year for Atkins. Right off the heels of the Detroit Electronic Music Festival, the release of his new album, and a well-publicized licensing deal with Ford Motor Company for the use of his 1985 Model 500 classic "No UFOs," Atkins talked with the Weekly about the state of dance music and the future of the black DJ.
L.A. WEEKLY: Why did you go into dance music instead of hip-hop?
ATKINS: Hip-hop was too slow. Believe it or not, that's the only reason. I've never not been into it. But you know, when you go to a club, you want some shit that's gonna make your blood pump.
You've been doing raves since the mid-'80s -- you started early on in the underground U.K. parties. How does the rave scene over here compare to the scene in Britain?
The U.S. scene doesn't have the same intensity. The Brits have been traditionally really progressive in terms of music. So when dance music made its way to Europe, they embraced it wholeheartedly. Dance music here is still seen as black music. Let's face it, the music -- disco, techno and trance -- it's all based on urban music. I think in America we have this institutionalized racism, and I think a lot of kids somewhere in the back of their minds know this. I think that eventually dance music is gonna blow up here in the States bigger than what it already is. But to make that happen, what they need is a homogenized, whitened version of it. I think that's what trance is.
Your music, techno, derived from funk and soul -- black music. Many people are still unaware that trance more or less evolved out of techno. Does it bother you that trance is gaining so much popularity here in the States?
I'd have to say that I'm affected by it and somewhat disappointed. I don't play much trance music. Fact is, trance -- it has no life, no soul. It's almost like marching music. There's nothing to it.
It's interesting that Area: One's biggest headliner was Paul Oakenfold, who has basically built his career off of trance. Reportedly, he was paid a million dollars for that tour.
I heard the same thing, and I think that's outrageous. Here's a guy who will go on record and say that Derrick, Kevin and myself brought techno to England. That music wasn't around when we went to the U.K., and here he is making a million bucks a tour.
Back in '94, in talking about your difficulties in getting a record deal, you told an interviewer that you thought U.S. record companies saw white techno artists as more marketable than black ones. Do you think this bias led to the success of white DJs and electronic artists like Oakenfold and particularly Moby, since his sampling of hip-hop, gospel and the blues pretty much served as the backbone for his top-selling album Play?
Well, let's take Eminem, for instance. Now, there's an area of music -- rap music -- that's inherently black. You really gotta have some credibility to hang in that game. But once the music industry found a white dude who had some credibility -- don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to take anything away from Eminem -- matter of fact, I kinda like him 'cause he's from Detroit and knows who I am. But look how quick he blew up. He's more famous than any other rapper on the set right now. It was like they were waiting for someone like that.
Do you see the history of rock & roll repeating itself?
Man, check this out: I can play a record for you that was made by a black dude -- one of my homeboys in Detroit. He made the track that trance evolved from. He's called Red Planet. "Star Dancer" is the name of the track, and it's the original prototype for trance music. But right now trance is the same thing in dance as what heavy metal is to rock & roll. Or, like rock & roll is to blues. With trance, history repeats itself -- it was black dudes that created rock & roll. America still has a lot of racial barriers erected. You're not gonna make me believe that the music industry is any different than any other industry when you've got 70, 80 percent white people running it. You're gonna have race issues -- even if they're unintentional. And yeah, I think blacks are about to be excluded from dance like they were excluded from rock & roll. It's not that anyone's going to physically do it, it's that they're gonna take so much of the soul out of it that blacks are not going to want to get into it.
But you're a black DJ who spins at a lot of raves. That scene's made up primarily of young white kids, who are, from what I understand, really into your shit.
That's precisely the thing that makes what I do so much harder, because when I go to a record company they expect a black dude to come in the door with R&B or rap. That's what's different between Europe and the U.S.
You're not coming to the table with the expected goods.
There's nothing in America that's conducive to a groundbreaking black alternative artist -- that's something that upsets me. It's the reason why dance music and techno had to go to Europe and come back -- because of the racial attitudes here in America.
But it seems like your new label, Om Records up in San Francisco, is trying to develop a name for itself as the soul lover's deep-house label by signing jocks like Chicago's Mark Grant, Marques Wyatt and yourself . . . like they're trying to get a monopoly on all the brothas.
Yeah, they're dedicated to the real deal.
What does the real deal mean to you?
Brothas doing their thing. You're always gonna have people that are gonna want to hear the real shit. I remember a long time ago when I used to go to the Parliament Funkadelic concerts, and you always had about seven or eight rows of white kids sitting in the front religiously 'cause they wanted to hear the real deal. So there's always gonna be people who want to hear the real deal.
― Disco Nihilist (mjt), Saturday, 14 May 2005 22:35 (10 years ago) Permalink
And holy shit Mike Taylor is OTM -- "Jazz Is the Teacher" (which I'd never heard) is phenomenal!
― Stormy Davis (diamond), Thursday, 21 July 2005 01:39 (9 years ago) Permalink
Not to steer off course, but what is the deal with Tresor lately? My local record store just dropped #s 215 and 216 (both Atkins), but otherwise I haven't seen ANYTHING in at least a year....
― jsoulja (jsoulja), Thursday, 21 July 2005 15:52 (9 years ago) Permalink
― Siegbran (eofor), Thursday, 21 July 2005 17:46 (9 years ago) Permalink
― moley, Thursday, 21 July 2005 21:15 (9 years ago) Permalink
Now the dust has settled on the first wave of that Detroit techno thing, it's his music that shines the most. The only one to avoid is 'Mind and Body', perhaps. It's not bad, it's just a little safe and smooth. It has its moments.
I think Deep Space and the 12" The Passage (which sounds a little like John Foxx circa The Garden in the strings) are my favourites. As for Clear, that track is a masterstroke that has not aged one bit, as Missy obviously knows.
Incidentally, Erik Davis is still at large as Cybertron, so it seems.
He spun "Clear" and the "Lose Control" instrumental back-to-back at P.S. 1 on Saturday.
― Rich (Rich), Friday, 22 July 2005 05:42 (9 years ago) Permalink
― Jay Vee (Manon_70), Friday, 22 July 2005 07:33 (9 years ago) Permalink
― W i l l (common_person), Friday, 22 July 2005 12:28 (9 years ago) Permalink
I know that in addition to the tracks I name, his set included some techno classics. But that isn't my field of expertise so I don't have any names.
― Rich (Rich), Friday, 22 July 2005 15:16 (9 years ago) Permalink
― Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Friday, 22 July 2005 16:59 (9 years ago) Permalink
― renegade bear shot by cops on frat row (vahid), Monday, 29 May 2006 21:33 (8 years ago) Permalink
maybe if you hate all ambient techno, this really isn't the right thread for u?
― moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 13 December 2008 22:18 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Tim F, Saturday, 13 December 2008 22:20 (6 years ago) Permalink
fine vahid, you tell me what I'm saying by selectively editing and then argue with that. far be it from me to stop your narcoleptic zings.
― Local Garda, Saturday, 13 December 2008 22:21 (6 years ago) Permalink
oh, ok, here's your original with MEANING PRESERVED!
a lot of shopping malls play a sort of house music that you don't hear in clubs too much, which is heavy on melody, eg all those "bargrooves" compilations. I agree with the above poster that dub house/techno in 2008 (esp the Detroit guys like Scott/Huckaby etc) is veering towards this territory, albeit with a great deal more respect given. it's some seriously gloopy shit which is great to listen to but can't imagine dancing to it apart from perhaps way afterhours.
― moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 13 December 2008 22:23 (6 years ago) Permalink
anyway what proportion of juan atkins infinti / model 500 output is dancing vs listening music, do you think?
― moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 13 December 2008 22:24 (6 years ago) Permalink
I must say those sound like way upmarket shopping malls. I associate Bargrooves with hairdressers and cafes more. Dub-techno with neither: I sort of think of dub-techno as th stuff they play at vinyl stores as a counterpoint to the uptempo stuff. Or maybe that's just the only place I tend to hear it in public.
― Tim F, Saturday, 13 December 2008 22:29 (6 years ago) Permalink
I think my point is pretty clear but you've making it overspecific to this particularly Huckaby remix when I was speaking more generally as the part in brackets shows and my specification of "dub house" does too. I think there is a lot of very well sound designed stuff which is functionless listening music, which runs the risk of just being "lush" and little more.
My point wasn't necessarily related to comparing this music with other dub-techno...as for Atkins/Model 500 I'm not sure I'd care to specify on that because it's not really relevant to the point I'm trying to make. Again I took up on the Huckaby remix cos it's an example of what I'm talking about, not specifically cos of the Model 500 connection.
When people are making 4/4 music that doesn't actually work in clubs it's kinda suspicious...not least when people heap praise upon it endlessly. Obv some of eg Scott's productions are not like this, but the tendency is there. (NB I'd also add someone like Lawrence to the mix here, or hell Move D)
― Local Garda, Saturday, 13 December 2008 22:30 (6 years ago) Permalink
maybe I should have said "shopping mall muzak"
I'm not suspicious of the music itself, a little bit suspicious of (or at least distant from) the discourse that automatically bigs it up.
It's Boomkat discourse basically.
But my suspicion is probably not productive: I love the Move D and Benjamin Brunn album but resisted checking it out for quite a while because of this.
― Tim F, Saturday, 13 December 2008 22:34 (6 years ago) Permalink
I guess the other reason that "bargrooves" doesn't work as a point of comparison for me is that that implies a certain communal functionalism (even if that functionalism is its unthreatening pleasantness) whereas what I infer in people's fanboyism for neuvo dub-techno is an identification with its air of privation.
I sort of feel like this discourse wants a replacement for Pop Ambient albums, which it can't continue to endorse given Kompakt are so overground now.
― Tim F, Saturday, 13 December 2008 22:37 (6 years ago) Permalink
To be sure, Kompakt occupied this role circa 2000/2001.
In other words the test is: what is the techno that you can buy at "out music" record stores? It's definitely Echocord etc. at the moment. They stopped stocking Kompakt et. al. in 2003.
― Tim F, Saturday, 13 December 2008 22:38 (6 years ago) Permalink
the techno you can buy at "out music" record stores is dubstep
― moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 13 December 2008 22:40 (6 years ago) Permalink
Ha yeah that too.
Not necessarily a diss - obv I liked Kompakt in 2001!
― Tim F, Saturday, 13 December 2008 22:50 (6 years ago) Permalink
"whereas what I infer in people's fanboyism for neuvo dub-techno is an identification with its air of privation"
privation analogous in meaning to "out music" record stores?
― tricky, Saturday, 13 December 2008 23:06 (6 years ago) Permalink
i think tim means exclusivity
― moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 13 December 2008 23:12 (6 years ago) Permalink
or maybe he really means privation, i dunno ... though i doubt there's anybody who seriously thinks dub-techno is a healthy aesthetic ordeal in the same way ∅ records are
― moonship journey to baja, Saturday, 13 December 2008 23:14 (6 years ago) Permalink
i have a suspicion about nuevo dub techno because it's like, "we're here. again?" like lots of other techno and house this year. however i appreciate the way the arc of time has descended on the music and a de facto lazy suspicion (my own, i mean) is often proved wrong by the quality of the tracks. it's not "shabby chic" ya know? faux aged or reliant on credibility thru association. it's like real chic: expand on or within the details of an artist/label's output, create a micro-genre, and do it with exceedingly high quality. like the mikkel metal album for example or even the "starlight" remixes in question or andy stott or the coldest season, which has become one of those go-to albums for me when i can't decide what else to play.
― tricky, Saturday, 13 December 2008 23:17 (6 years ago) Permalink
A little bit exclusivity, but also "privation" in the sense of, I dunno, isolationism. But obv not as extreme as a lot of stuff in out music stores. This stuff is the out-music equivalent of chill-out perhaps; which makes dubstep the out-music equivalent of those bass mixes designed for playing from your soup-car speakers while patrolling the block.
― Tim F, Saturday, 13 December 2008 23:18 (6 years ago) Permalink
it's so formulaic, some of the dub techno, even when I like something on say, Sandwell District it's like, this is just a big slab of music with a very clear dimension of gloom to it but there's no multifacted way to like it, it's just so easy to praise lazily.
― Local Garda, Saturday, 13 December 2008 23:22 (6 years ago) Permalink
maybe it just depends on whether you like your musical pleasure with rigor or your pleasure to just be floaty and nice (have the words "warm blanket of fuzz" ever been used to describe this music?). depends on the day, right? btw, my listening model is almost always daydream-mode. xp, again.
― tricky, Saturday, 13 December 2008 23:22 (6 years ago) Permalink
you know, i'm generally skeptical of most dub techno because i feel like Basic Channel did it best. however....
"a lot of shopping malls play a sort of house music that you don't hear in clubs too much, which is heavy on melody, eg all those "bargrooves" compilations. I agree with the above poster that dub house/techno in 2008 (esp the Detroit guys like Scott/Huckaby etc) is veering towards this territory, albeit with a great deal more respect given. it's some seriously gloopy shit which is great to listen to but can't imagine dancing to it apart from perhaps way afterhours.
― Local Garda"
is straight nonsense. perhaps it is best experienced when played on a system that allows the bass to properly pummel you, but that shit when done right is deep dance music 100%. Patrice Scott (can't see why he is getting lumped in with dubby shit) and Mike Huckaby are definitely doin it right.
"I sort of think of dub-techno as th stuff they play at vinyl stores as a counterpoint to the uptempo stuff. Or maybe that's just the only place I tend to hear it in public.
― Tim F"
this probably goes without saying, but you are simply listening to the wrong disc jockeys.
― pipecock, Sunday, 14 December 2008 09:18 (6 years ago) Permalink
― Local Garda, Sunday, 14 December 2008 18:42 (6 years ago) Permalink
Fact:1. Dub techno is just like any other genre. Some of it is really formulaic, and some of it isn't. If you like it at all, it is necessary, as with any other genre, to do the hard work and figure out what records are really pushing the boundaries. 2. Dub techno records do attract a certain fanboy contingent that can be off-putting to what I guess could be called the anti-purist.3. Ultimately the purists and anti-purists are both necessary in this music to keep each other honest. 4. Like any other type of record, a dub techno record can be functional depending on the context and the DJ.
Opinion:1. There is a certain laziness is how reverential SOME of these records are. 2. I think there is something vaguely cynical about the current preponderance of dub techno and house records that are always coming out in limited pressings of 500 with colored vinyl; this phenomenon seems to simultaneously exploit purists and make it hard for the "normal" lover of this music to get their hands on things. This is especially a problem when the label is a European one and the buyer is in America.3. I think there is more reason to be suspicious of some of the discourse around "non-functional" 4/4 music than the music itself. I love Lawrence, play his records at home and when I DJ (sometimes even in the middle of the night! Contrast is important to me.).4. Some of the nu-detroit-basic-channel stuff os fairly by the numbers. The "Starlight" remixes are above average but not the greatest example of this kind of music.
― Shh! It's NOT Me!, Sunday, 14 December 2008 19:52 (6 years ago) Permalink
"I think there is more reason to be suspicious of some of the discourse around "non-functional" 4/4 music than the music itself. I love Lawrence, play his records at home and when I DJ (sometimes even in the middle of the night! Contrast is important to me.)."
Yeah this is right - as per my comment upthread I almost feel like I approach all this stuff a bit to sceptically owing to the typicality of its praise, and then I'm pleasantly surprised by how great a lot of it is.
― Tim F, Sunday, 14 December 2008 21:24 (6 years ago) Permalink
""Starlight" remixes are above average but not the greatest example of this kind of music"
what are some, in your view, better examples of this kind of music? cause i dig the starlight remixes and would love to hear stuff that is similar
― vergangenheitsbewaeltigung (later arpeggiator), Sunday, 14 December 2008 21:36 (6 years ago) Permalink
I am just now since the beginning of this month trying to catch up with techno after a long hiatus... so i can most more releases as this process continues...so far, I think that on echospace itself, my favorite release is the Intrusion 2x12 (echospace 7). i also like the convextion lp that came out a couple of years ago on Down Low Music. his early singles are hard to find and cost a bunch of money. If you can find them for less than $40, go ahead and pick them up, especially the first release on Matrix and also his release on Tektite. Also check out Ornaments Music, which has like 5 or 6 releases now. Some of them are exceptional. Obviously Basic Channel and Chain Reaction. There are plenty of threads on those labels.
Anyways, I don't know how experienced you are and whether these records were already all well known to you or not... but these are good places to start.
― Shh! It's NOT Me!, Sunday, 14 December 2008 22:29 (6 years ago) Permalink
"3. I think there is more reason to be suspicious of some of the discourse around "non-functional" 4/4 music than the music itself. I love Lawrence, play his records at home and when I DJ (sometimes even in the middle of the night! Contrast is important to me.)."
to the "dance critics" on here, if its not lowest common denominator peak hour Ibiza crapola, it cant possibly be effective on dancefloors. this is why i wonder what the dance culture theyre taking part in is like. if i played most of the tracks they line up to praise at one of my gigs, i'd probably be chased from the building and asked not to return. of course when i drop one of those boring Sistrum records like the recent Mike Edge one, the crowd goes nuts. culture makes a huge difference.
"4. Some of the nu-detroit-basic-channel stuff os fairly by the numbers. The "Starlight" remixes are above average but not the greatest example of this kind of music.
― Shh! It's NOT Me!"
of the actual artists from Detroit, who are the ones making the bad dub tracks? Deepchord mix of Pacou was one of their best dancefloor moments, Modell's "Incense & Black Lights" is diverse as hell in its texture and mood, Luke Hess' 2nd Fxhe 12" adds even more to the sound palette, etc. sure, some of the excessive remix comps (Starlight, Vantage Isle, Miranda, etc) have been unnecessary and redundant as well as ridiculous with the limited colored vinyl thing (which i was critical of over a year ago already on my blog, not a new issue) but even those seem to be less obnoxious when played beginning to end on CD instead of trying to pick out one track to put in a deejay mix. to me the laziest record in this style was the Sebo K joint that straight jacked a Basic Channel loop.
― pipecock, Monday, 15 December 2008 01:48 (6 years ago) Permalink
which basic channel and what sebo k track?
― tricky, Monday, 15 December 2008 02:03 (6 years ago) Permalink
i don't mean that in a snarky way or in a "prove your mad track id skillz" way. i am just curious.
― tricky, Monday, 15 December 2008 02:04 (6 years ago) Permalink
slight mistake on my part, the track is by "sebbo", not "sebo k". jeez guys, can't we find a better name?
jacked loop is from one of the Quadrant tracks as per the note on that link. moritz's rmx is of course brilliant, though.
― pipecock, Monday, 15 December 2008 03:14 (6 years ago) Permalink
i guess moritz wasn't as offended as you were
― moonship journey to baja, Monday, 15 December 2008 03:34 (6 years ago) Permalink
"i guess moritz wasn't as offended as you were
― moonship journey to baja"
did i say i was offended? i said it was lazy, which is absolutely true.
― pipecock, Monday, 15 December 2008 03:37 (6 years ago) Permalink
i get what you're saying, but ... i can't kick this feeling when it hits ...
man i loved both sides (well, i bought the mp3s) of that sebbo single!
i bought "ocean to ocean" today. i never knew "infoworld" had an actual vinyl release. wooooooooo
― tricky, Monday, 15 December 2008 03:47 (6 years ago) Permalink
time, space, transmat
― tricky, Monday, 15 December 2008 03:49 (6 years ago) Permalink
the track is by "sebbo", not "sebo k". jeez guys, can't we find a better name?
yeah thanks for that 'pipecock'
― Suggest Bangbus (haitch), Monday, 15 December 2008 03:49 (6 years ago) Permalink
― tricky, Monday, 15 December 2008 03:52 (6 years ago) Permalink
"i get what you're saying, but ... i can't kick this feeling when it hits ...
man i loved both sides (well, i bought the mp3s) of that sebbo single!"
well it seems to me that most of the Detroit dub techno crowd puts a heavy emphasis on their sound creation techniques from Rod Modell's field recordings and crazy tweaking to Huckaby's mastering of the Waldorf Wave synthesizer. to me that is much less "by the numbers" than just sampling the guys who created the genre in the first place.....
"i bought "ocean to ocean" today. i never knew "infoworld" had an actual vinyl release. wooooooooo
gotta love that whole 12"!
― pipecock, Monday, 15 December 2008 03:53 (6 years ago) Permalink
the field recordings are definitely a nice touch and it's true that mastery of gear (even software gear) is admirable, but i think sometimes that these discussions come down to whether the songs are good or not regardless of the blood sweat and tears that went into their creation. the original sebbo is a great mixing tool because of the way it builds through the chanting. it sounds even better if you play it with the moritz von oswald remix at the same time.
― tricky, Monday, 15 December 2008 04:01 (6 years ago) Permalink
"the field recordings are definitely a nice touch and it's true that mastery of gear (even software gear) is admirable, but i think sometimes that these discussions come down to whether the songs are good or not regardless of the blood sweat and tears that went into their creation."
i'm not going to disagree with that, the final product is always the most important thing. of course to me, most Huckaby and a pretty decent % of Deepchord stuff has a high quality final product. i still listen to Basic Channel and Rhythm and Sound much more than any of the knock offs, though that Incense & Blacklight has been getting lots of play from me this year.
"the original sebbo is a great mixing tool because of the way it builds through the chanting. it sounds even better if you play it with the moritz von oswald remix at the same time.
i like the moritz mix, which is really a whole other track that to my ears has nothing to do with the "original" which i listened to once when i got the record in the mail. it doesn't do it for me.
― pipecock, Monday, 15 December 2008 04:07 (6 years ago) Permalink
yeah the remix is definitely the better of the two. the way it ends is like a study of how to very delicately dismember an entire track through dubbing until it dissolves into nothing. at the same time it's like this total swamp of sound. one of these days i will pick up the record.
― tricky, Monday, 15 December 2008 04:14 (6 years ago) Permalink
"yeah the remix is definitely the better of the two. the way it ends is like a study of how to very delicately dismember an entire track through dubbing until it dissolves into nothing. at the same time it's like this total swamp of sound. one of these days i will pick up the record.
indeed, it really does almost completely go away. i did this really nice mix one day that i didnt record in which i was mixing out of the Watamu Beach rmx into M5, it really sounded like they belonged together with the wispyness of the end of the WBrmx floating over the deep beats of the Maurizio jam. i was pretty impressed with myself ;)
― pipecock, Monday, 15 December 2008 04:17 (6 years ago) Permalink
haha that is why i record everything! i end up with lots and lots of crap, but there are always ideas worth salvaging. i was listening to this old swayzak mix today and they segued from a really early ellen allien electro track into maurizio by simply letting the allien track play out, but it was one of the best transitions in the mix. it was just yeahhhhhh..super smooth.
― tricky, Monday, 15 December 2008 04:27 (6 years ago) Permalink
i'm usually too lazy to fire up the computer, plus my off the cuff mixes are usually just me forcing whatever new things i've picked up in any genre together which tends to have poor results just about 100% of the time. M5, M7, and Phylyps Trak II are just about always close by because they go so well with just about anything!
― pipecock, Monday, 15 December 2008 04:34 (6 years ago) Permalink
How fucking spacey amazing is this?
― I'll make you bang, combinating with smang (Noodle Vague), Friday, 14 January 2011 17:52 (4 years ago) Permalink
pretty fucking spacey amazing
― elan, Friday, 14 January 2011 19:51 (4 years ago) Permalink
Saw Model 500 live last weekend at Paradiso as part of Sonic Acts (same evening/venue as Pauline Oliveros!), and they were astonishing - one of the best gigs I've been to in ages; up there w/Kraftwerk. Had no idea it was a four-dude-at-synths affair live, and that one of said dudes was Mike Banks!
― etc, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 11:40 (3 years ago) Permalink
picked up "deep space for pennies" largely it is STINKAH!
― iglu ferrignu, Tuesday, 28 February 2012 11:50 (3 years ago) Permalink
'Mind & Body' might be worthy of a minor re-appraisal. Amidst the pooh there's a couple of decent tracks - namely It's time, Tipsy and Incredible (dated vocals not withstanding). His collab with 4hero (The Fusion Formula) is probably his best foray into d&b however.
― millmeister, Saturday, 22 December 2012 22:19 (2 years ago) Permalink
He always brings some great tunes as a DJ (plus some clunkers!)
― Chewshabadoo, Saturday, 22 December 2012 22:25 (2 years ago) Permalink