defend the indefensible: Hall and Oates

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I like them, if only in an American Psycho / sterile yuppie kinda way. I mean, "Rich Girl" is a great song, no?

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 2 January 2004 00:53 (9 years ago) Permalink

The biggest selling double act of all time, and the 3rd biggest selling act of the 80s. Also, they were fucking great.

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 2 January 2004 00:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

there is nothing "indefensible" about hall and oates. "i can't go for that" is a funky ass song.

― fiddo centington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 2 January 2004 00:55 (9 years ago) Permalink

Yep, my thoughts exactly. Theres alot of Hall and Oates love here and rightly so.

― jed (jed_e_3), Friday, 2 January 2004 00:58 (9 years ago) Permalink

One of the first bands I was ever consciously into as opposed to knowing a song on the radio without knowing anything about the person who created it (like Numan's "Cars," which I enjoyed without having any thought about the guy who made it). When I first started listening to radio intensively in 1981/82 they were all over the top 40 AM station I tuned into and it was all grand, and "Maneater" the following year has something of the same minimal creep vibe of "Billie Jean" -- jauntier if you will, nowhere near as brilliantly focused and paranoid, but still it understates rather than overstates. Got the next couple of albums after that, including the pretty damn great first hits comp Rock and Soul Volume 1 (which wisely, I realize in retrospect, left off "Family Man") and saw them live in 1984 with my dad, who was also a fan. It was loud, a bit over the top, and great. Even liked Hall's "Dreamtime" solo single and somehow bought Ooh Yeah! in 1988 (and then ignored it). Whether or not I need to play them again I don't know but they beat the heck out of Phil Collins if we're going to use the opening question as a comparison point...

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 2 January 2004 00:59 (9 years ago) Permalink

"I Can't Go For That" is surely one of the best kamikaze DJ set drops of all time?

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

what the hell?

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

the only objective measure of a bands greatness is whether they can make me dance. hall and oates can make me dance. therefore they are great.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:02 (9 years ago) Permalink

Like, the fighter jet is the DJ's reputation, the American warship is public opinion, and the explosion is the dancefloor reaction.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

No one seems to like to mention "She's Gone" or "Sara Smile," maybe because they are too obvious, but I think they are fantastic. If you are looking for a defense with elaborate arguments and so forth, I can't be bothered.

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

Yeah i love to hear "I Can't go.." when im out - it happens all too rarely.

― jed (jed_e_3), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

"Adult Education" fuckin' rocks. There's nothing wrong with Hall & Oates, apart from John Oates' mustache.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

but what would hall and oates be without it?

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:05 (9 years ago) Permalink

but what would hall and oates be without it?

Two guys on a reunion tour.

― Johnny Fever (johnny fever), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

"Kiss Is On My List" has such great enunciation of the words.

"blowing my bliss"

― Dom Passantino (Dom Passantino), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:07 (9 years ago) Permalink

Not indefensible at all -- immaculately-crafted pop-soul, great arranging, singing and writing. "I Can't Go For That" is infectious and magical.

Moustache-less John Oates is like Kiss without make-up -- yeah, I know it's done, but 'tain't the same.

― Nom De Plume (Nom De Plume), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:08 (9 years ago) Permalink

Daryl Hall's solo album Sacred Songs has some pleasingly weird bits.

― Douglas (Douglas), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:09 (9 years ago) Permalink

i really like that album too.

― The Lady Ms Lurex (lucylurex), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:10 (9 years ago) Permalink

No one seems to like to mention "She's Gone" or "Sara Smile," maybe because they are too obvious, but I think they are fantastic.

I missed the earlier seventies hits when growing up, so I only got to hear them in retrospect -- but both songs are indeed mighty fine, the latter is if I remember a tribute to the underrated Sara Allen, who collaborated with them both on many songs and who passed away some years back (or so I thought, but I keep reading it was her sister and fellow H/O collaborator Janna Allen?).

"I Can't Go For That" is infectious and magical.

Uh, someone DID mention De La Soul by now, yeah?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:12 (9 years ago) Permalink

and family man and maneater of course.

― jed (jed_e_3), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:14 (9 years ago) Permalink

dear lord the first few bars of 'I Can't Go For That' are musical manna and i am moses. i heard a fantastic remix of it at this now legendary night

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:16 (9 years ago) Permalink

I once had the opportunity to spend several hours with Robert Fripp and we spoke about his production on Sacred Songs. He couldn't say enough about how Hall could sing anything with equal feeling and accuracy. Strangely, he even mentioned that he had inquired into forming a King Crimson lineup built around Daryl.
Of course, I didn't need to hear it from Fripp to know that Daryl can sing his ass of.

By the way, am I allowed to praise Daryl Hall?

― bahtology, Friday, 2 January 2004 01:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

Cant go is used to great effect on the first eskimo mix cd too.

― jed (jed_e_3), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

"I Can't Go For That" is surely one of the best kamikaze DJ set drops of all time?

i have taken to pressing pause when the 'where does it stop - ' line drops - FEAR ME

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:19 (9 years ago) Permalink

The Avalanches did a great 2 Many DJsish mix where "I Can't Go For That" is mixed with Daft Punk's "Oh Yeah" to *brilliant* effect.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:20 (9 years ago) Permalink

I can't remember how "I Can't Go For That" goes, but I'm 99% sure I like it.

― Rockist Scientist (rockistscientist), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:23 (9 years ago) Permalink

"You got the body, now you want my soul" *keyboard part*

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:23 (9 years ago) Permalink

dont even think about it, say no go!

― jed (jed_e_3), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:24 (9 years ago) Permalink

"I'll do anythiiiiiiiiiiing...that you want me toooooo do, yeah" (set to slowly descending chord, glam/soul melancholia)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:25 (9 years ago) Permalink

The Avalanches did a great 2 Many DJsish mix where "I Can't Go For That" is mixed with Daft Punk's "Oh Yeah" to *brilliant* effect.

yep, i have copied it on more than one occasion! (not live tho)

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:25 (9 years ago) Permalink

Which is fair enough because in the same mix they copy the Kurtis Rush Missy/George Michael bootleg. I also love whatever it is they do to "One Minute Man" in that set - it's marvellous! (apologies for thread derailment)

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:33 (9 years ago) Permalink

Their War Babies album is one of the fine neglected glam pop LPs of the 70s.

― Yoda Ono, Friday, 2 January 2004 01:35 (9 years ago) Permalink

to be fair Tim they probably just played the Kurtis boot as a record (it did come out on vinyl) and then mixed it with the wicked Indian stuff and whatnot

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:38 (9 years ago) Permalink

Hall & Oates have been a favorite of mine for a long time. I'm partial to "Out Of Touch," which came out a few months too late to make "Rock and Soul, Vol. 1." "Did It In A Minute" is a quality forgotten single from '82. On the other hand, John Oates does lose points for titling his '03 solo album "Phunk Shui."

― John Fredland (jfredland), Friday, 2 January 2004 01:47 (9 years ago) Permalink

Uhmmm, oh I know! They're not indefinsible at all, as evidenced by several threads on them in which many an ILMer sang their praise.

Sorry, I just really don't like the concept of this thread.

― David Allen (David Allen), Friday, 2 January 2004 04:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

"Say It Isn't So" is as slick as Wesson and as cool and sexy as Jean-Paul Belmondo rubbing his lips in Breathless.

― Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Friday, 2 January 2004 04:17 (9 years ago) Permalink

Daryll Hall is one of the best blue-eyed soul singers of all time.
No one has mentioned "One on one" which I consider their finest hour.

― Jim Janse, Friday, 2 January 2004 05:42 (9 years ago) Permalink

holy moley i had no idea about the extent of the Hall & Oates love on ILM! wow i feel much better.

― roger adultery (roger adultery), Friday, 2 January 2004 05:45 (9 years ago) Permalink

"now say no go" - weird, this came up on the iPod as soon as I clicked on this thread!

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Friday, 2 January 2004 06:05 (9 years ago) Permalink

But like the flame that burns the candle
The candle feeds the flame...you make-a my dreams come true.
Killa!

― Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Friday, 2 January 2004 08:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

But I do truely hate Maneater. Sorry ;(

― Speedy Gonzalas (Speedy Gonzalas), Friday, 2 January 2004 08:50 (9 years ago) Permalink

i'm QUITE sure that this topic has been discussed before, and that we ALWAYS decide that H&O were mostly classic.

― Eisbär (llamasfur), Friday, 2 January 2004 09:29 (9 years ago) Permalink

I actually bought an H&O best of purely cos ILM kept going on about them and I've only played it once - I think I still resent so many people preferring them to Wham! on the TS thread so I think they're too rockist or something. But "Kiss On Your List" and "I Can't Go For That" are gorgeous yes.

― Tico Tico (Tico Tico), Friday, 2 January 2004 12:45 (9 years ago) Permalink

I don't mind people hating "Maneter," since I do as well.

― Rockist Scientist, Friday, 2 January 2004 13:19 (9 years ago) Permalink

The Avalanches did a great 2 Many DJsish mix where "I Can't Go For That" is mixed with Daft Punk's "Oh Yeah" to *brilliant* effect.

There has to be a thread somewhere about the two breezeblock sets that The Avalanches did. They weren't consistent throughout in quality, but they really did have some moments of genius that I find myself skipping to.

― mike h. (mike h.), Friday, 2 January 2004 15:29 (9 years ago) Permalink

"Family Man" was good too.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 2 January 2004 15:54 (9 years ago) Permalink

M-E-T-H-O-D-O-F-L-O-V-E

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Friday, 2 January 2004 15:59 (9 years ago) Permalink

i always wondered if Method Man had/should've sampled that

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 2 January 2004 16:13 (9 years ago) Permalink

He lifted the hook in the song "M.E.T.H.O.D. Man" on the first record.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Friday, 2 January 2004 16:14 (9 years ago) Permalink

haha, i guess i should've heard that by now

anyone remember the Hall & Oates as council workers (or something) sketches on Big Train?

― stevem (blueski), Friday, 2 January 2004 16:16 (9 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 382 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

your terrain is suspect, sir

― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 31 March 2013 17:52 (2 months ago) Permalink

Duffy jumped from Duran, not the other way round. Talk about thread-drift.

― suspecterrain, Sunday, 31 March 2013 17:52 (2 months ago) Permalink

.... and Stephen Duffy is a fantastic pop stylist.

― suspecterrain, Sunday, 31 March 2013 17:55 (2 months ago) Permalink

I think you mean COMMERCE stylist

― ARE YOU HIRING A NANNY OR A SHAMAN (Phil D.), Sunday, 31 March 2013 18:06 (2 months ago) Permalink

knowing it's just some sad middle aged durranie trolling kinda kills it, you'll never measure up to the queen

― balls, Sunday, 31 March 2013 18:09 (2 months ago) Permalink

This thread revive is full of magic and worms.

― cunnilingus ah um (The Reverend), Sunday, 31 March 2013 18:34 (2 months ago) Permalink

i heard Stephen Duffy made records to try and sell them so i can't take him seriously as an artist

― parcheesi Wotsits (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 31 March 2013 18:55 (2 months ago) Permalink

did he form some kind of noize collective that I'm unaware of

― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 31 March 2013 19:00 (2 months ago) Permalink

.... and Stephen Duffy is a fantastic pop stylist.

― children, the infirm, and neophytes, Sunday, 31 March 2013 18:55 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

― c21m50nm3x1c4n (wins), Sunday, 31 March 2013 19:14 (2 months ago) Permalink

srs lmao at commentary on "the scene"

i listened to "voices," "private eyes" and "h2o" yesterday while driving to the city, so thanks to everyone for inspiring that.

― billstevejim, Sunday, 31 March 2013 22:41 (2 months ago) Permalink

helluva streak -- one of the most underrated of streaks if you toss in Big Bam Boom.

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 31 March 2013 22:53 (2 months ago) Permalink

hadn't heard "I Can't Go For That" for a long time, & when it came on the airplane radio station last week I was startled by the dryness of the beat; hadn't ever really "gotten" why H&O charted on R&B radio before

― Euler, Sunday, 31 March 2013 23:06 (2 months ago) Permalink

and it was a demo!

Daryl Hall sketched out the basic song one evening at a music studio in New York City in 1981 after a recording session for the Private Eyes album. Hall began to play a bass line on a Korg organ, and sound engineer Neil Kernon recorded the result. Hall then came up with a guitar riff, which he and Oates worked on together. The next day, Hall and Sara Allen worked on the lyrics.[1]

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 31 March 2013 23:10 (2 months ago) Permalink

suspecterrain has inspired me to, at long last, create the followup to POLLin' My Head Above Water: "Private Eyes" by Hall & Oates . Pop fans, I give you: How Does It POLL To Be Back: "Voices" by Hall & Oates !

― Doctor Casino, Sunday, 31 March 2013 23:35 (2 months ago) Permalink

oooh

― billstevejim, Sunday, 31 March 2013 23:46 (2 months ago) Permalink

yeah!

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 31 March 2013 23:49 (2 months ago) Permalink

more on "I Can't Go For That"

“Remember the old Roland CompuRhythm box?” he asks. “I turned to the Rock and Roll 1 preset, sat down at a Korg organ that happened to be lying there and started to play this bass line that was coming to me. It's the old recording studio story: The engineer heard what I was doing and turned on the tape machine. Good thing, because I'm the kind of person who will come up with an idea and forget it. The chords came together in about 10 minutes, and then I heard a guitar riff, which I asked John, who was sitting in the booth, to play.”

“I remember that moment clearly,” says Oates. When we spoke, the relaxed and affable Oates had just dropped his 9-year-old son off at his math tutor and had plenty of time to talk on the cell phone before the lesson ended. Oates and his wife live in the mountains outside of Aspen, Colo., and homeschool their child. “The old Compurhythm had four presets: Rock 1, Rock 2, cha cha/samba and some other stupid beat. We both had them in our houses, and one was sitting in the studio.

“We cut everything live back then, but sometimes used the Roland box to come up with a tempo,” Oates continues. “Anyway, Daryl came up with this great bass line, using whatever sound happened to be on the organ, and Neil miked it and the drum machine.

“Daryl came up with the ‘B’ section chords, and then I plugged my 1958 Strat directly into the board, which was either an early SSL or a Trident. We were beginning to experiment with digital samplers — the Fairlight and Synclavier in particular — but were still recording analog. At any rate, Daryl sang a guitar part idea, I started to experiment with a muting thing and the part evolved on the spot.”

Did they think about adding another guitar part? “No, never!” Oates says. “When we play ‘I Can't Go for That’ in concert, I usually play some shimmery parts, but there was a leanness to the '80s sound that we were into. The Cars and other groups had that straight, simple eighth-note feel, and it was an influence on us; it was one of the cool things about '80s music. The '70s were Rococo, but punk and new wave flavored the '80s, and we responded to those styles.”

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 31 March 2013 23:49 (2 months ago) Permalink

thx for the new dn suspect, er... rain

― infirm neophytic child (zachlyon), Sunday, 31 March 2013 23:54 (2 months ago) Permalink

Excellent if overenthusiastic recounting by the late T-Bone Wolk of the Rock and Soul Part 1 sessions to record "Say It Isn't So" and "Adult Education." Reminded me of how integral Hall's eighth-note piano chords were to, say, "Kiss on My List" and "Private Eyes" and "One on One."

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 1 April 2013 00:04 (2 months ago) Permalink

That's a good read, thanks.

― Doctor Casino, Monday, 1 April 2013 00:14 (2 months ago) Permalink

"Say It Isn't So" is my favorite song recorded for a comp btw

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 1 April 2013 00:18 (2 months ago) Permalink

Tough call between that and "Slip Slidin' Away," for me.

― Doctor Casino, Monday, 1 April 2013 00:19 (2 months ago) Permalink

"Say It Isn't So" is a marvelous karaoke number too.

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 1 April 2013 00:20 (2 months ago) Permalink

"do i do" for me

― balls, Monday, 1 April 2013 00:27 (2 months ago) Permalink

do you sell the chocolate kisses part

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 1 April 2013 00:39 (2 months ago) Permalink

balls sells but who's buying

― mookieproof, Monday, 1 April 2013 00:42 (2 months ago) Permalink

"Mary Jane's Last Dance" is cool but ultimately I would also go with "Say It Isn't So"

― billstevejim, Monday, 1 April 2013 00:43 (2 months ago) Permalink

It's basically ""Hot Fun in the Summertime," "All That Money Wants" and "Say It Isn't So."

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 1 April 2013 00:46 (2 months ago) Permalink

no sorry i meant 'do i do' is my fave greatest hits addition, i've never had luck w/ hall & oates at karaoke, following hall's thread in 'say it isn't so' required more pathos than i had that night and i'd rather not speak about what happened when i did 'one on one'.

― balls, Monday, 1 April 2013 00:50 (2 months ago) Permalink

mookieproof otm - i've had more luck w/ megadeth

― balls, Monday, 1 April 2013 00:50 (2 months ago) Permalink

haha really? Hall is no good at pledging his troth. Part of what makes SIIS so easy to sing is channeling contempt.

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 1 April 2013 00:51 (2 months ago) Permalink

Actually, I agree with balls - "Say It Isn't So" is tough to sing! It's like Rumpelstiltskin, he melody kind of evaporates on you if you're not Daryl Hall.

― Doctor Casino, Monday, 1 April 2013 00:52 (2 months ago) Permalink

as for new songs on compilations, i think we are all forgetting something very important here:

or not

― Doctor Casino, Monday, 1 April 2013 00:53 (2 months ago) Permalink

you guys know me, contempt ain't my bag.

― balls, Monday, 1 April 2013 00:54 (2 months ago) Permalink

I'll tell you what's difficult: "One on One," as I learned in December. As embarrassing a pratfall as "Open Your Heart."

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 1 April 2013 00:54 (2 months ago) Permalink

My worst karaoke snafu was doing Cameo's "Candy" and the given lyrics were only Larry's adlibs, not the main melody. Other than that, I just sometimes forget I can't pull off anything written for a high tenor. No MJ or Stevie for me. :(

― cunnilingus ah um (The Reverend), Monday, 1 April 2013 05:12 (2 months ago) Permalink

Alfred, what is that making-of-No-Can-Do paragraph taken from? That's awesome. The muted guitar at the beginning of that song is one of my all-time favorite 80s guitar moments...

― Jeff "Skink" Baxter (Jon Lewis), Monday, 1 April 2013 15:59 (2 months ago) Permalink

http://mixonline.com/mag/audio_hall_oates_cant/

― the little prince of inane false binary hype (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 1 April 2013 16:05 (2 months ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/arrest-made-oates-bites-halls-face/story?id=17947753#.UXClghxDGd0

― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Friday, 19 April 2013 02:06 (2 months ago) Permalink

(your Maneater joke here...)

― something of an astrological coup (tipsy mothra), Friday, 19 April 2013 02:07 (2 months ago) Permalink

jesus. it's stories like these that make me feel grateful none of my neighbors are, currently, biting my face.

― authentically inauthentic (Pat Finn), Friday, 19 April 2013 02:35 (2 months ago) Permalink

This is terrible:

Arrest Made After Oates Bites Hall's Face

― Darin, Saturday, 20 April 2013 01:29 (2 months ago) Permalink

D'oh... nevermind

― Darin, Saturday, 20 April 2013 01:29 (2 months ago) Permalink

THAT FUCKING PHOTO

― sandra dayo connor (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 April 2013 01:49 (2 months ago) Permalink

NIGHTMARES. NIGHTMAAARRRRRES.

― sandra dayo connor (The Reverend), Saturday, 20 April 2013 01:49 (2 months ago) Permalink

he's got a Gacy look about him too which doesn't help

ugggh

― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 20 April 2013 01:51 (2 months ago) Permalink

maneater

― gentle german fatherly voice (President Keyes), Saturday, 20 April 2013 01:52 (2 months ago) Permalink

doh

― gentle german fatherly voice (President Keyes), Saturday, 20 April 2013 01:52 (2 months ago) Permalink

flagged u for that fyi

― set the controls for the heart of the sun (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 20 April 2013 01:53 (2 months ago) Permalink

1 month passes...

Hall & Oates should have been special celebrity guests on an episode of Miami Vice.

― arctic mindbath (President of the People's Republic of Antarctica), Monday, 3 June 2013 19:35 (2 weeks ago) Permalink

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