Sacred cows from the dance canon that are now irrelevant

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also the fact that basement jaxx ALONE have made more hot freaked-out jazzy house headfuck "moments" than everybody else put together has done w/ acid (outside of dropping "washing machine" or "percolator" or "narco makossa" into a set)

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:37 (eighteen years ago) link

maybe what i am saying is a different thread. what's the opposite of a sacred cow? um, "taboo styles from the dance canon that are now irrelevant": ragga jungle, jazzy / latin house, trance ... what's next?

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:38 (eighteen years ago) link

probably nu skool breaks. the meat katie fabric mix was almost listenable. the james lavelle GU mixes are listenable but only because they are sort of hybrid tribal house / nu skool breaks mixes.

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:40 (eighteen years ago) link

aw man, talk about such a universal dip in quality for a subsub dance genre.. vahid nailed it. I can't even get excited about Tipper or Si Begg anymore. :( (although i'm glad I still have "Fuzzy Logic", "Move Back", "Planetrock Futureshock", and "Paranoia" from back in the day.)

― donut ferry (donut), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:47 (eighteen years ago) link

another interesting question (maybe) is, "styles from the dance canon with the most longevity". as in what (not necessarily micro) micro-faction of dance has simply never gone out of style? i doubt either of these questions have an actual answer because of how cyclical the culture around the canon is.

― tricky (disco stu), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:48 (eighteen years ago) link

xpost

"twister (dynamic bass mix) / get up on your feet"!!

"dig the new breed"!

"under glass"! "se15"! "boomin back atcha"!

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:54 (eighteen years ago) link

ohhh bugger, bukem was gonna be the sour centrepiece of a mammoth target/aim high 2 jihad ive been tempted to fulfil for ages! and u were waiting for it all along...

― hold tight the private caller (mwah), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:54 (eighteen years ago) link

"What about this love?" is incredible! Probably my favorite Fingers track along with "Can U Feel It" and "Stars." I'm pretty sure Ronan is a big fan of it too.

Vladislav Delay going more R&B with the next Luomo album seems like a logical progression.

― Michael F Gill (Michael F Gill), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:54 (eighteen years ago) link

it would have to be micro-faction in order to make the question interesting. otherwise the answer is (duh) house and techno.

― tricky (disco stu), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 00:56 (eighteen years ago) link

there is no answer to your question: that is the interesting part. there's sort of a circularity happening, and you'll find you can actually define things the other way around: a micro-faction is a part of dance that gets stale and stays stale, a faction or style of dance is one that comes and goes, an "undefinably broad" arm of dance ("house", "techno", "hardcore") is one that "stays in style".

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 01:00 (eighteen years ago) link

"ohhh bugger, bukem was gonna be the sour centrepiece of a mammoth target/aim high 2 jihad ive been tempted to fulfil for ages! and u were waiting for it all along..."

Prima why you gotta hate Target???

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 01:11 (eighteen years ago) link

well... no look its 3:13am sorry, ill bring it tomorrow tho

(fuck it, if anyone else is reading i have a strong dislike for riko too *gasp*)

― hold tight the private caller (mwah), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 01:25 (eighteen years ago) link

sorry for derailing yalls thread! tho i am v glad i got my hip/prole issues out the way ages ago by loving the theo parrish rmx of jill scott

― hold tight the private caller (mwah), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 01:27 (eighteen years ago) link

irrelevant = not presently influential?

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 07:39 (eighteen years ago) link

old house music is now the "screwed" version of dance music

best comment ever!

i dont really like target either. i dont like all the stuff he does with pianos, and his beats wobble between "really good" and "really boring". those aim high comps are peppered with boring tunes by target on it. "they dont know", that doneao tune is a good example. its sort of ok because of his trademark accordian, but it could really easily be Another Rubbish Target tune. i dont mind riko but D double is awful. that stupid sound he makes is, well, stupid!

i think breaks are a bit of an easy target. like big beat, they are super populist and kinda naff but they are sort of compelling, in a listless way (?!). like, i was dancing to breaks at the weekend, and it was good to just sort of feel...nothing...just like beats, and bass.

― ambrose (ambrose), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 09:15 (eighteen years ago) link

"What About This Love" is definitely canonical, is it not?

― Ronan (Ronan), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 09:18 (eighteen years ago) link

if people hated Lil Louis so much then why was "French Kiss" no. 1 on the Billboard dance charts for two weeks in '89?

― Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 09:20 (eighteen years ago) link

Also, for the record, everyone outside a few HATED Lil' Louis at the time

but, it sold a million copies or something. it was thee dance track of '89.

x post

― stirmonster (stirmonster), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 09:22 (eighteen years ago) link

like, i was dancing to breaks at the weekend, and it was good to just sort of feel...nothing...just like beats, and bass

yeah, that's a pretty good way of putting it - maybe no wonder j lavelle is calling his new (fashion) project "surrender"? you could also note his predilection for black-on-black-on-black color schemes ...

― vahid (vahid), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 09:54 (eighteen years ago) link

My wife was out in the clubs when "French Kiss" dropped (as were you, DB) and apparently Boston was going MAD for that song. Actually, when I finally got it on a comp and played it on the home stereo, she completely freaked out and shouted "I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR THIS SONG FOR YEARS!!!!!!!!" and she never, ever, ever, ever, ever does that.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:03 (eighteen years ago) link

I still luv "bat dis", fuck the haters.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:04 (eighteen years ago) link

beat dis. argh.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:05 (eighteen years ago) link

'beat dis' is grate.

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:07 (eighteen years ago) link

"Beat Dis" fucking rocks!

― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:16 (eighteen years ago) link

but is it still relevant, is the question? sample collage type tracks were by and large a late 80s fad that didn't survive. the more recent mash-up phenomenon made a lot of it feel relevant again to an extent (and served as a reminder that yes 'beat Dis' was/is good, but to look at the climate and stance of Dance (as tree with numerous branches stemming from the same big trunk) now, are there any clues in any current dance music that suggests 'Beat Dis' and it's ilk ever existed or mattered? That's interesting.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:20 (eighteen years ago) link

I think 'French Kiss' is absolutely relevant today given the darker, minimal tone of a lot of house music...partly through electroclash. 'Energy Flash' too. these are tracks you could presumably still drop today and be met with general approval were it not for just how ubiquitous they remain. if i heard 'Washing Machine' in a set now i'd go mental, but that's partly because i was never familiar with it for so long - it was just another one of those tracks i'd only heard about.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:23 (eighteen years ago) link

'beat dis' might be irrelevant to contemporary producers, but the basic moral beauty of the thing remains inspirational today.

― N_RQ, Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:26 (eighteen years ago) link

Was "Give It Up" ever popular enough to make sacred cow status? Because my impression is that desipte how much I completely adore and ove it, it's almost completely irrelevant to what people want to dance to now.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:27 (eighteen years ago) link

it's evidently the mid 90s stuff that is now deemed irrelevant and has been re-evaluated in the process. 'Exit Planet Dust' is the prime example (along with 'Leftism' I suppose, Underworld having escaped the expiry date trend gun with more intact). In 1995, a dynamic sonic tour de force with the Chems amalgamating love of JB breaks, European techno, bone-crunching NY electro, psychey/droney folk etc. to excellent effect. In 2005 it's widely seen as a stodgy, amateurish forerunner to better things. Though it's relevancy depends on whether you still see the Chems as influential today. They've moved on from it somewhat (though their album template does remain more or less the same) thus it's hard for me to berate their first effort because as lumpy as it may sound now it's also got the spunk the latter work naturally lacks due to repetition of formulae).

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:33 (eighteen years ago) link

'Give It Up' was HUGE at it's time, a top 5 hit even (a year after it first surfaced). I think you're right though Dan, looking at things now, you'd never know it existed.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:35 (eighteen years ago) link

Surely Exit Planet Dust is still the second best album The Chemical Bros ever made? "Life Is Sweet"! "Chico's Groove"! "

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:47 (eighteen years ago) link

SteveM otm re Lil' Louis and it's current relevance. I've got the album 'the world of Lil Louis' and the single 'You called me' is a blueprint for someone like Miss Kittin.

For me Exit Planet Dust is like drinking Belgian fruit beer. Intriguing, a little strange, outwardly appealing but having to take more than a few sips is more than the body can stand. Whenever I hear 'The brother's gonna work it out' and the crunching bass and beats comes in, I'm praying for the record to end.

― Billy Dods (Billy Dods), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 12:54 (eighteen years ago) link

I utterly love Belgian fruit beer :) But I played 'Exit Planet Dust' far too much and haven't really listened to it in the last five years as a result.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:00 (eighteen years ago) link

Still love 'Life Is Sweet' though. The Daft Punk remix would probably still work today too.

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:01 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't think the Chems did anything embarrasing until Surrender but I know that no one else agrees with me. "Chico's Groove" is a total beast.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Admittedly when I pull it out these days I usually go straight to the second half of the album - if I wanted to listen to the first half I'd probably just play Dig Your Own Hole instead.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:03 (eighteen years ago) link

Actually, when I really think about it, "Loops of Fury" is maybe the best track they ever did!

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:11 (eighteen years ago) link

I don't really care if "beat dis" (or for that matter "pump up the volume", which is even better) is relevant or not. it rocks! It's great! I'd have to say that I can't think of anything in the field of dance music I've heard in the last 18 months-2yrs that I've liked even a tiny little bit.

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:16 (eighteen years ago) link

But this thread is/was about relevancy, not what rocks!

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:18 (eighteen years ago) link

Not a big fan of the M.I.A.?

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:19 (eighteen years ago) link

I suppose. I don't really care about relevancy, though.

(x-post not esp bothered one way or the other, Dan)

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:20 (eighteen years ago) link

Yay with all this Exit/"Loops"/Dig talk. (When it is positive.)

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:20 (eighteen years ago) link

relevancy hates fun!

― Pashmina (Pashmina), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:21 (eighteen years ago) link

It's an interesting question to me because, up until maybe 2000-2001, I'd say that dance music was the last genre out there where irrelevancy was one of its defining characteristics (ie, "that's so six months ago" was one of its defining points, moreso even than pop music, particularly since the local pop stations have taken to programming in an "old-school" top-40 hit or three into their playlists). What with the one-two punch of the mashup scene and the electroclash boom, a gigantic dose of r---ism appears to have been injected into the genre and suddenly all of the discourse is about canon and signifiers to past tracks etc etc etc. A thread like this, which would have been laughable 6-7 years ago, now makes sense.

I wonder if we're watching the normal life cycle of a major genre being played out here.

― The Ghost of Black Elegance (Dan Perry), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:26 (eighteen years ago) link

Dance is dead, ergo dancing is dead, ergo we must have all your legs, they are not needed.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:27 (eighteen years ago) link

I mean I still love everything mentioned on this thread but recognise that some of it sounds 'dated' or indeed might as well have never existed for the lack of it's influence in anything going on today. And it is interesting to think of tracks that fit that description.

'Give It Up' is a good example because the 'tribal beats' thing has seemingly disappeared entirely from the Dance palette this decade. Plus, the way that track is structured follows a certain model which I'm not sure exists anymore. The marimba-like riff that comes in halfway through really lights the whole thing up and it feels more like a pop song than an underground club thing as a result. But this line was blurrier then and now seems much more clearly defined. Or maybe I'm wrong and there are similar recent examples of a similar thing today.

Talking about tracks like this in terms of their crossover success I often find useful but then the charts seemed more relevant then than they do now too. I was just thinking that you may well get a 'French Kiss' sort of track in the top 3 today if the gimmick was plugged well enough, but you don't seem to get sublime instrumental dance tracks in the charts today like you once did with 'Pacific', or maybe even Robert Miles 'Children'! So what is their relevance, in that respect?

― Sociah T Azzahole (blueski), Tuesday, 16 August 2005 13:27 (eighteen years ago) link

four months pass...

interesting thread, which i'd missed before.

also:

6th Feb - The Source feat. Candi Staton - You Got The Love (Positiva)

is on EMI's release schedule for 2006 - any ideas what form it's going to take this time?

― CharlieNo4 (Charlie), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:20 (eighteen years ago) link

OOh!

Let it be Gabba!

Why hasn't there been an old-skool/jungle-techno revival lately?

― Wogan Lenin (dog latin), Tuesday, 10 January 2006 18:27 (eighteen years ago) link

i think dance music dates faster than any other genre, mostly due to the combination of the simplicity of the music itself, and the vast amount of producers out there waiting to be heard. the thing is... dance music is also timeless in ways that a lot of non-dance oriented music isn't. the only thing that gets played out fast is the voices, beat-styles, or even just changing scenes due to outside factors. if a song inspires dance, it doesn't matter how old it is. there are only so many target BPM ranges you can dance within. there are a limited number of unique rhythmnic pulses. the foundations essentially stay the same - it's the decorations that change. that's why there have been (white label) remixes of these sacred cows pretty much every year since they came out.

― could be on drugs, who knows, Tuesday, 10 January 2006 21:18 (eighteen years ago) link

the new version of 'You Got The Love' is exactly the same as the remix from ten years ago but with weaker drums. utterly worthless.

― Sororah T Massacre (blueski), Wednesday, 11 January 2006 11:06 (eighteen years ago) link

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