Is 'Man Needs a Maid' ridiculous?

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I just listened to Harvest for the first time in a while. 'Man Needs a Maid' is a pretty ridiculous song, if you ask me. The lyrics are compelling, but the arrangement is SO campy and over-the-top. It's got to be one of the more bizarre Neil Young songs. Any thoughts?

Debito (Debito), Thursday, 16 October 2003 04:01 (twenty years ago) link

I don't think it's campy. It IS over the top, but it's done beautifully. One of his greatest songs.

roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 16 October 2003 04:03 (twenty years ago) link

yeah, and the lyrics are pretty ridiculous too. i mean, i know that he meant that he was using "maid" as (a) synonymous for "maiden," and (b) a metaphor for his ambivalence about starting a new romantic relationship. but it does sound like he just wants some chick who'll clean up his shit. it's kinda amazing that he thought he could get away with that in 1972 (the height of bra-burning feminism, ya know).

and i also love the musical arrangement. this is one of my fave NY songs.

Little Big Macher (llamasfur), Thursday, 16 October 2003 04:06 (twenty years ago) link

I think the message is clear - women are clearly inferior. Right on, Uncle Neil.

roger adultery (roger adultery), Thursday, 16 October 2003 04:08 (twenty years ago) link

The song is ideal. (lowercasei)

Ian Johnson (orion), Thursday, 16 October 2003 04:20 (twenty years ago) link

I read about the song a bit on the AMG website. Apparently the song did create a bit of a storm amongst feminists when it was released.

I love how the feeling of loneliness is so palpable, and the line about falling in love with the actress is classic. However, I still can't get into that arrangement.

Debito (Debito), Thursday, 16 October 2003 04:49 (twenty years ago) link

My least favorite song off of Decade, honestly... Love the lyrics, don't like the music much. I usually skip it. The orchestra is ridiculously un-Neil, which COULD be a great change, but NOT on this song. If this was done w/ a country sound, I think it would have been brilliant... but its not, and its certainly flawed.

Bryan Moore (Bryan Moore), Thursday, 16 October 2003 04:53 (twenty years ago) link

Yeah, I gotta agree; I love Neil - to a fault - but even I can't get behind this one. Irony or no (I choose to read it as yes, an ironic statement), it frankly kind of sucks. One of the reasons why I could never consider Harvest his best work.

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 16 October 2003 05:00 (twenty years ago) link

there's another song on harvest with the full orchestral treatment (name escapes me right now). but i remember not liking that one as much as i liked "a man needs a maid."

Little Big Macher (llamasfur), Thursday, 16 October 2003 05:06 (twenty years ago) link

'There's a World' is the other

Debito (Debito), Thursday, 16 October 2003 05:14 (twenty years ago) link

i love this song but i hate the arrangement. there's a great version of it from the bbc floating around that's just him and a piano. i listen to this one a whole lot more.

mason butler, Thursday, 16 October 2003 05:23 (twenty years ago) link

Innocent fellow, he used no synonym for maid! 'Someone to keep my house clean, fix my meals, and go away' - he brast. I like this song, though I hate the ideas in it as much as I hate 'Youth' by J.M. Coetzee - do I really need a 150 page meditation on whether the reason why women are attracted to artists is because they have no internal fire? I mean okay, he's showing that those ideas are 'youthful' but, ... anyway, back to the question, I like this song, and I think if it didn't have campy strings it would be just so incredibly offensive, but being campy, it's kind of mildly offensive.

m.s (m .s), Thursday, 16 October 2003 06:05 (twenty years ago) link

I mean everyone can basically identify with the idea of being burned in love and wanting a servant, believe it or not, Neil 'Youth'.

m.s (m .s), Thursday, 16 October 2003 06:07 (twenty years ago) link

This is a good question, Debito. Also, I think I meant he used no synonym for maiden. Because he did use a synonym for maid - 'maid'. Or is that a samenym.

m.s (m .s), Thursday, 16 October 2003 06:16 (twenty years ago) link

listening to neil young sing about women is like watching a cop eating donuts.

herve, Thursday, 16 October 2003 06:28 (twenty years ago) link

I have no idea what that means.

Debito (Debito), Thursday, 16 October 2003 06:31 (twenty years ago) link

I couldn't believe what I was hearing when I first heard this song (esp. when the housework line came along to clarify things). I can't justify it as such, but despite everything, it's one of my favourite songs. At its heart there's a horrible lonely attempt to reject communion with another. That's the way I hear it anyway. It hits me pretty hard, the beguiling way in which he makes it sound an attractive prospect. I can see how the strings might be too OTT for some but they somehow work for me too.

And then the whole thing drops off, he sings 'When will I see you again?' and I'm sobbing.

N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 16 October 2003 07:26 (twenty years ago) link

Come on, guys,
I always thought the text in this song was pretty straightforward and symphatetic. The song's story:

1) Man has bitter and disillusioned thoughts about women and relationships. Maybe he's been burned by a previous relationship. Anyway, he's feeling pretty cynical ("Man need a maid").

2) Man gets lonely and starts to attribute affection to all sorts of female gestures ("I fell in love with the actress").

3) Man finally slowly leaves his unloving and unlovable state of mind and cautiously starts developing ideals about a sound relationship again ("When will I see you again?").

What's all the fuss about? It's a song about someone who gets bitter and then slowly wakes up to the beauty of love again. The feminists must have been pretty stupid back then if the couldn't see that. Or?

Jack Nitzsche's orchestration is pretty much on the limit, but these days, I find it hard to imagine the song in a country setting. I agree with Debito that the line about falling in love with the actress is really beautiful, and that has a lot to do with the dynamics of the orchestration. I remember having read that Young was talked into these heavy symphonic sounds by Nitzsche, but I might be wrong.

'There's A World' sucks, though, for me that is the only song which scars the record.

Jay Kid (Jay K), Thursday, 16 October 2003 09:04 (twenty years ago) link

both N. and Jay Kid are on the money there. For me, it's him getting to a point where he lets his guard down, desperately trying to cling to a few comforting, but quaint, ideals.

Baaderist (Fabfunk), Thursday, 16 October 2003 09:08 (twenty years ago) link

Exactly! You can almost see the morning sun hitting his face as he sings "When Will I See You Again". Finally, he realizes that he doesn't want a maid, but a woman.

Jay Kid (Jay K), Thursday, 16 October 2003 09:14 (twenty years ago) link

yep - i Love this song - its my favourite off Harvest

jed (jed_e_3), Thursday, 16 October 2003 09:19 (twenty years ago) link

Music's nice and I never bother listening to the lyrics - pretty much par for the course with Neil Young I'd say

Dadaismus (Dada), Thursday, 16 October 2003 09:23 (twenty years ago) link

I hate this song so much, musically, that I haven't ever gotten around to listening closely to the lyrics. It's a really bring down next to the material on Harvest that I like.

Al Andalous, Thursday, 16 October 2003 12:53 (twenty years ago) link

The songs with the OTT arrangements are the only ones on Harvest that I like...

Melissa W (Melissa W), Thursday, 16 October 2003 12:56 (twenty years ago) link

"Consuelo, you know that I can't understand you if you speak spanish." - Storytelling

Michael G, Thursday, 16 October 2003 12:58 (twenty years ago) link

Great, great song. And its ridiculous in the best way (people IS ridiculous).

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Thursday, 16 October 2003 15:03 (twenty years ago) link

Well, it's responsible for pretty much all of Mercury Rev's late-period work; you can decide whether that's a good or bad thing.

And I've always liked that he eventually ended up with the actress he's talking about.

robmitchum., Thursday, 16 October 2003 15:26 (twenty years ago) link

I have to admit to liking Neil as much when he over-lards the production as when he plays it straight and simple. What about that great, strange gospel fade-out on 'The Old Laughing Lady?' or the strings on 'The Loner'? Songs like that stand out for me because they're so odd and unique in his repetoire - it's Neil's oddness -- the "Speakin' Out"s, the "Vampire Blues"', the "Transformer Man"'s -- that makes him so great. "Out on the Weekend" is a classic --- why'd that get left off Decade? -- but there's a ton else just like it. As far as the sexism goes -- well, we are talking an unreconstructed male from the seventies. There's no excuse for it, but that doesn't change my feelings about the song. It's not like we're talking an ethical dilemma of T S Eliot vs. the Jews proportion here. Besides, isn't Harvest Moon's "Such a Woman" an answer to "A Man Needs a Maid?" (Shame it's so dreary).

Chuck Tatum (Chuck Tatum), Thursday, 16 October 2003 15:38 (twenty years ago) link

I like how people defend the arrangement on this, because "oh but it's Jack Nitzsche's..." as if just because it's Nitzsche, it's gotta be great (it's not).

gygax! (gygax!), Thursday, 16 October 2003 16:03 (twenty years ago) link

This thread is an exact transcription of 90% of the conversations I've had while pasing a fifth of cheap bourbon around the kitchen table.

Buffalo Mozzarella, Thursday, 16 October 2003 17:46 (twenty years ago) link

For the record, I always took the stance that "A Man Needs a Maid" was a terrible song, and that we should skip ahead to "Heart of Gold" before doing another shot.

Did I ever back that opinion up with an embarassing display of whiskey-fueled fisticuffs? God, I hope not...

Buffalo Mozzarella, Thursday, 16 October 2003 18:17 (twenty years ago) link

"A Man Needs a Maid" -- guy's in denial abt his feelings, obv, but the "maid" sentiment is his way of reducing his great love to nothing, an expendable/replaceable employee, an accessory. A man needs a maid: that's all he needed her for (so he claims), and that's all he'll probably need any woman for (so he thinks). I can see through the bluster and see all the twee underneath. I feel like the mushy stuff at the end is a bit of a cheap capitulation to the hippies in the audience.

Love the orchestration, though. He's playing around with '60s pop-pomp. Not so unusual if you've ever heard anything by Blood, Sweat & Tears, Laura Nyro, the Beatles, Burt Bacharach, or any vintage Phil Spector or Shadow Morton production.

Annouschka Magnatech (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 16 October 2003 18:51 (twenty years ago) link

Also, the line "I fell in love with the actress/She was playin' a part that I could understand" reminds me of Jonathan Richman.

Annouschka Magnatech (Jody Beth Rosen), Thursday, 16 October 2003 18:55 (twenty years ago) link

I wish Neil and Jack had made a whole rec like this track.

I'm not sure Neil does irony (or if he does, he doesn't do it v. well.) He's sort've like Dylan w/out any of the Eng lit filters (metaphor/synonym+antonym etc.) - he just comes out and says a man needs a maid rather than 'won't you please crawl out my window' or whatever. I don't know if that makes this v. problematic song better or worse, it's that old thing abt when does 'honesty' become offensive.

Andrew L (Andrew L), Thursday, 16 October 2003 20:18 (twenty years ago) link

Jody and Andrew on the money.

A simple prop to occupy my time.

N. (nickdastoor), Thursday, 16 October 2003 22:49 (twenty years ago) link

synchronicity, i had this song stuck in my head all day, and wow when i check out ilm theres a thread about it.
im ambivalent sometimes i think its totally twee/ott but then sometimes its great iffa yr feeling all sentimental

hellbaby (hellbaby), Thursday, 16 October 2003 22:59 (twenty years ago) link

It's worth noting that Young was having some serious health problems at this point and was bedridden for quite some time around this period, and was looked after by actress Carrie Snodgress, which makes the song more understandable.

Sean Carruthers (SeanC), Friday, 17 October 2003 03:19 (twenty years ago) link

I feel like the mushy stuff at the end is a bit of a cheap capitulation to the hippies in the audience.

Good point! It's quite possible that it would have been a better song, had it stopped after the actress part. But it doesnt't, and that's also why I totally can't see why anybody would be offended by it, or find it unlikeable. That would be, unless they're:
1) Extreme, dogmatic, more-feminist-than-thou kind of stalinistic 1970ies politically correct hags gone sour & stale.
2) Plain ol' stupid.

Jay Kid (Jay K), Friday, 17 October 2003 07:46 (twenty years ago) link

Yes, in an ideal world (er, *my* ideal world), Neil would have made a load more records with this sound, and a load less records where he "invented grunge". Those songs he recorded with Nitzsche and released as Buffalo Springfield (Broken Arrow & Expecting To Fly), are easily the best in his canon (oh, come on!!), it's a real shame he didn't do more of this kind of exploration.

Lyric: I dunno. I think it's quaint.

harveyw (harveyw), Friday, 17 October 2003 08:46 (twenty years ago) link

If you think that's quaint, you should hear the unreleased 'A Man Needs A Footman'.

N. (nickdastoor), Friday, 17 October 2003 08:50 (twenty years ago) link

i've always read it as a fab acid stab at the romanticisation of "woman" by men in that melancholy indie state men can get worked up into though the (ironic) reality of relationships between a lot of men and women is less than ideal and they are not pining for a partner at all, but the thought of romance and (handily) someone to clean up after them. it's not a complicated insight, but I think it expresses it well.

"Fix my meals and then go away"

Alan (Alan), Friday, 17 October 2003 08:51 (twenty years ago) link

(must punctuate more)

Alan (Alan), Friday, 17 October 2003 08:51 (twenty years ago) link

jack nitzsche had nothing to do with the song 'broken arrow.' That's a myth. In fact he hated the production of it.

ulysses s grant, Friday, 17 October 2003 09:19 (twenty years ago) link

See also: 'Unfaithful Servant' by the Band or 'Eureka' by Jim O'Rourke.

'Welfare Mothers', on 'Rust Never Sleeps', is a much more offensive NY track.

Andrew L (Andrew L), Friday, 17 October 2003 09:30 (twenty years ago) link

If Neil wanted the lyrics to drift by unnoticed, he could have given "A Man Needs A Maid" the same wisps-of-smoke-drifting-gently-up-from-a-crisp-pile-of-leaves arrangement that the preceding tracks share.

Instead, he used strings, horns, chimes, and whatnot to make damn sure that we all heard him say that he needs a maid to cook, clean, & leave. It's like he wanted the listener to hate the song.

I bet he still lets out an evil cackle or two when he thinks about all the buzzes this song has killed over the years.

Buffalo Mozarella, Friday, 17 October 2003 13:25 (twenty years ago) link

what do you mean?

Jay Kid (Jay K), Friday, 17 October 2003 13:59 (twenty years ago) link

I like this song. There is something both absurd and sad about it.

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 17 October 2003 14:35 (twenty years ago) link

I mean: you're sitting around with your friends, having some drinks and sharing some laughs. You put on "Harvest," and everybody nods in approval as the first couple of tracks softly plink and plonk around the room like dusty rays of of cold autumn sunlight. "Ah," you think to yourself, "life is good."

The next thing you know, chimes and cellos are striking melodramatic poses, and Neil is loudly and repeatedly insisting that A MAN NEEDS A MAID. Then someone is sure to say that the lyrics are demeaning to women, and someone else will reply that they are actually wistful and touching, and a third person will say oh, give the poor guy a break, he was wearing a back brace when he wrote that. You and your friends aren't laughing anymore, but off in the distance, you can almost hear Neil chuckling.

He could have delivered those lyrics in a mellow fashion, and nobody would have given them a second thought. Instead, he brought an entire orchestra in to poop on your party. Good one, Neil...

Buffalo Mozzarella, Friday, 17 October 2003 14:42 (twenty years ago) link

most of these same people also hate his production of "You Can't Always Get What You Want." Even OTT (which he almost always was) Nitzsche is so OTM, but then again, I even enjoy his 'classical' record, sick fan that I am. I like that NY gets swallowed up by the whole thing.

Beta, Friday, 17 October 2003 18:13 (twenty years ago) link

Hey, what does "OTT" mean?

jaymc (jaymc), Friday, 17 October 2003 18:38 (twenty years ago) link

"Over The Top" - stringwise production in this case I think, not the arm-wrasslin' movie.

BrianB, Friday, 17 October 2003 18:52 (twenty years ago) link

and not that lovable pfork scamp Chris Ott either.

Beta, Friday, 17 October 2003 19:58 (twenty years ago) link

"You Can't Always Get What You Want" is a big, dramatic song to begin with (lecture us on some harsh, universal truths, Mick! And give us a big campy wink while you're at it!), so the choirs & french horns suit it just fine.

"A Man Needs A Maid," on the other hand, is a sad little song, so the epic strings seem out of place.

The song= a guy looking around his grubby apartment, and wishing a woman was there to pick up all his crusty socks and empty bottles.

The production=an armored viking looking over some great vista while eagles circle overhead.

Buffalo Mozzarella, Friday, 17 October 2003 23:42 (twenty years ago) link

but see, the song reveals that the grubby little man's emotions hit him as profoundly as a great vista would affect a viking!! Bruce Springsteen and Phil Spector based their whole lives around this!

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Friday, 17 October 2003 23:52 (twenty years ago) link

I listened to this today on a cassette on a bus and wondered what the fuck most of you were going on about.

RJG (RJG), Saturday, 18 October 2003 00:00 (twenty years ago) link

1) Extreme, dogmatic, more-feminist-than-thou kind of stalinistic 1970ies politically correct hags gone sour & stale.

This is exactly the kind of 'look' I'm going for ... I think it sounds kind of deadpan, flat, sorrowful and beautiful. Maybe I could be the feminazi you need.

""A Man Needs A Maid," on the other hand, is a sad little song, so the epic strings seem out of place."

I think this is true - the strings on this song are funny. It's partly because the strings are so rich and his voice is so thin and cracking too.


m.s (m .s), Saturday, 18 October 2003 06:34 (twenty years ago) link

my (feminist) reading of this song always read it as much more of an indictment of man rather than woman. Neil has failed as a man in an epic way because he has failed to make the most basic connection a human can make. He can't stop trying, though, but he knows that these conclusions about women devalue his humanity.

teeny (teeny), Sunday, 19 October 2003 19:20 (twenty years ago) link

great f'n song; JBR and teeny otm.

'Welfare Mothers', on 'Rust Never Sleeps', is a much more offensive NY track.

??!!!

gabbneb (gabbneb), Sunday, 19 October 2003 20:17 (twenty years ago) link

I can remember a time when I was too bummed out to pick up my dirty clothes, and it really did seem like I was living in an epic tragedy.

At least, it seemed that way to me. To my friends, it just seemed like I was living in a disgusting apartment.

They were nice enough to keep coming over, though, and some nights, after having a few drinks, I'd start to describe my dark emotional vistas. My friends never shared my fascination with this topic, however. "Quit bitching and start cleaning," was their advice.

In retrospect, they were 100% correct, and I'm damn glad that I never used a bombastic string section to try to convince them otherwise.

Buffalo Mozzarella, Monday, 20 October 2003 19:49 (twenty years ago) link

eleven months pass...
this song is neil's way of saying, "bitch, wash my clothes!"

it deserves an r&b cover -- by r kelly?

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 3 October 2004 18:37 (nineteen years ago) link

eight months pass...
A friend of mine made me watch a Neil Young special on a 1972 Old Grey Whistle Test last week. NY was like a cute version of Robbie Williams, with his non-smug smirking. He had some nice banter about stereophonic BBC paper cups. Then he hammered out 'A Man Needs A Maid'. It was great.

When will I see you again?

Alba (Alba), Friday, 10 June 2005 09:03 (eighteen years ago) link

two years pass...

is speculation as to whether the dude should get a maid really worth the corny, overdone instrumentation

Charlie Howard, Friday, 30 November 2007 02:29 (sixteen years ago) link

one year passes...

"listening to neil young sing about women is like watching a cop eating donuts."

haha! Yes, exactly.

adamrl needs a maid

admrl, Wednesday, 31 December 2008 19:59 (fifteen years ago) link

but it does sound like he just wants some chick who'll clean up his shit. it's kinda amazing that he thought he could get away with that in 1972 (the height of bra-burning feminism, ya know).

There is such a thing as singing as a character, ya know.

ichard Thompson (Hurting 2), Wednesday, 31 December 2008 23:29 (fifteen years ago) link

the most basic connection a human can make

More basic: I just shook hands with a homeless-/street-paper vendor.

If Timi Yuro would be still alive, most other singers could shut up, Wednesday, 31 December 2008 23:48 (fifteen years ago) link

Doped-up makes it hard to get things done around the house.

Eazy, Thursday, 1 January 2009 00:21 (fifteen years ago) link

I thought that maybe I would get a made = I'll stop where I can, get some fried eggs and country ham

Eazy, Thursday, 1 January 2009 00:22 (fifteen years ago) link


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