women

haha... I was all ready to say "CLASSIC!"

Oh wait -- you said women. Hmmm. Well, in this case, John boy could've meant the song for at least a couple of women who had graced his life.

;)

martin amis annoyingly pretends he does - especially in experience

what is their deal?

there's, like, 10 bands named "women"

Public Strain is a good record.

who cosign?

I do. Too bad about the probable break-up.

yeah they're good

cosign. the first one's great too.

I can't believe Bright Eyes was all the rage in 2002! It seems like yesterday but who listens to Bright Eyes anymore?

getting pretty "in" to this and pleasantly surprised to see the play it's getting on year-end lists since i wouldn't call it an easy record to love.

Ron Polo

did anyone actually answer his question??

Ron Polo

2 bad i cant webmail him... i have some p good advice...

spill it.

been listening to Public Strain since it came out. Any word on what's up with this band?

They released a split this year, but that was prob recorded before the fight. So no idea. But two very awesome albums.

Yeah. The Pitchfork session they did was really great, too. A little tougher and more driving than the records, but with all of the weirdness and noise intact.

http://www.npr.org/2015/01/11/375894264/first-listen-viet-cong-viet-cong?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=nprmusic&utm_term=music&utm_content=20150111

op sounds like yahoo answers

as I have said elsewhere, continental shelf sounds just like lansing-dreiden, and not in a bad way. will give this a good listen later

this record is good, i love being able to identify the dna of women but through a completely different filter

I liked Cassette a lot and I was excited for the album then I realised it sounded a lot like Interpol, and not in a good way

come on now. maybe on a track or two. the rest is the sound of Viet Cong

If this sounds like Interpol to you, the depth of your musical references is about 1mm.

"Silhouettes" does verge on being a little Interpol-esque... but to compare those shitty, unoriginal and overly glossy "post-punk" bands of the 00s to Viet Cong is doing them a huge disservice.

they are their own beast

These guys should try a different band name generator next time

it's a bad name for sure

this record is good, i love being able to identify the dna of women but through a completely different filter

― call all destroyer, 24. januar 2015 00:45 (22 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is the point where I point out that drummer Mike Wallace was also in Azeda Booth (as was Chris Reimer, RIP) who's In Flesh Tones is one of the best albums of the last ten years. I never tire of pointing that out.

Hot Takes:

Dig it overall, especially the first half ("side one") and the closing track. Heavy debt to The Cure & Bauhaus apparent as the album develops not so clearly pronounced up front.

1) "Newspaper Spoons" – An intro track, pretty much. Doesn't sound much like what little Interpol I've heard. More like A Frames and/or (especially?) Health among contemporary North American acts, with a strong krautrock influence in the rhythm section. Minimally severe, blown out and psychedelic.

2) "Pointless Experience" – Okay, here the chorus vocals are more in line with my vague sense of Interpolishness, romantically gloomy in a gothy, traditionally post-punk manner. Not so hot on that. Rest is still reminiscent of Health (abrasive repetition, psychedelic haze) and A Frames (abrasive simplicity, savage restraint). Plus MBV guitar frag. Trippy & suspenseful middle eight tricked me into expecting a kickass change that never arrived :/

3) "March of Progress" – Awesome, first real standout. Retains everything interesting about the opening tracks, including an almost fetishistically cruel cruel set of self-imposed limitations, but arranges things in a much more ambitious and unusual manner. Traces of Syd Barret (or Ben Wallers, lol) in the sing-song midsection. Despite the music's superficial simplicity, it's surprisingly oblique. Had to listen three or four times through to get a sense of what the band might be up to here, how the song is meant to work. Love the explosion of brutally shrill guitar at the end, like a pinata full of razor blades.

4) "Bunker Buster" – This one's pretty good, too, though relatively slight. Stripped way down, again saves Albini-ish, tinfoil-chewing guitar skring for punctuation at the end. The farther afield they move from moody, gothic post-punk, the more I like them.

5) "Continental Shelf" – Speaking of which... Much less interesting than most of what's come before, though probably a good deal more successful as indie pop. Chorus fleetingly recalls The Pixies. Do like the crusty guitar distortion at the outset, recording in general.

6) "Silhouettes" - Yeah, see, this one's similar. A damn good song, but much less strange and distinctive than what they had going on up front. Pretty much a revivalist act at this point, TONS of early Cure in the mix. No surprise that these last two got videos, as it's the sound I expect they'll pursue.

7) "Death" – Starts out much like the last two, only better, stranger, the vocal drama more unsettling, structure less familiar. Guitar chime reminiscent of Sonic Youth circa "The Sprawl". Bass propulsion helps give it the edge. Perfectly solid for about 4 minutes, at which point it drops the mask and goes in HARD. More of this yes please.

being Oberlin, the show was cancelled more because of the cultural appropriation angle than the possible implied support for the Viet Cong. That's what the statement said anyway

it's the response i expected from people who called their band women tbh
i am going to the APF offshoot in Chicago in a couple of weeks and they're scheduled to play
wonder what's gonna happen?

might have possibly forgiven them if they had named their album FARClife

i actually initially thought this was a cool name, but yeah it was only a matter of time before this happened. i was in a punk band with a problematic name in college and we basically never got any shit for it, so i always count my blessings that no one ever wrote [my name] + racist on their blog when stuff like this happens. i feel like all the stuff written about iceage 2 years ago didn't end up getting many shows cancelled, so it'll be interesting to see if the cultural climate has changed since then or if this will snowball

local mpls band "White Boyfriend" changed their name because they got feedback that the name made groups not feel welcome/marginalized

I hope Single Mothers get the same treatment

this seems worth adding to the thread for context

This entire issue was brought to my attention through several of the band’s interviews in which they exhibit this sort of behavior, seen notably in the video, “Hello: Viet Cong at Le Guess Who? 2014,” (at 4:51, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXaiEcgRxTg) and article, “The Ridiculousness of Being Viet Cong” (http://www.imposemagazine.com/features/viet-cong-interview: “That [name] comes from our drummer, and from us being teenagers and watching movies. The Viet Cong were always the bad asses in movies.”)

too bad it had to be the drummer :-/

I don't think it was really about "cultural appropriation" per se so much as the fact that a lot of Vietnamese Americans are former refugees from the regime that resulted from the Viet Cong, or their descendents.

they culturally appropriated the viet cong! omg. this world is crazy.

FWIW, the band name I always wished I could ban is Child Abuse

might have possibly forgiven them if they had named their album FARClife

― groundless round (La Lechera), Tuesday, March 3, 2015 2:15 PM (10 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

XD

You're probably correct about the "band name generator" which implies they put as much thought into the meaning and implications as a frat bro would with a Chinese symbol tattoo. As long as it "looks cool" who cares what it means right?

that is my point yes
if you're going for the "cool sounding words" there are tons of choices that won't make you seem either offensive or ignorant
total onomastic failure

I thought I liked the name Viet Cong, but you really have to do a name like that the right way. Being aware that it's apropriation, being clear on the political implications.

I mean, I totally get how the Viet Cong were badass in movies or whatever.

xp i don't see how it's "appropriation" on any level tbh

generational appropriation

Also, Canada played no role in the war in Vietnam, so it's entirely likely that some dudes in a band who are looking for a name really don't have the kind of closer relationship to the Viet Cong that Vietnamese and Americans do.

(Not an excuse, but maybe an explanation.)

xp i don't see how it's "appropriation" on any level tbh
― Mordy, Tuesday, March 3, 2015 1:30 PM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

you're right, not the best choice of word on my part. i guess it came to mind because of the insensitivity of the use of the name

i don't think it was your word tho? my impression is that language came from oberlin?

The fact that the band openly acknowledges their problematic name, yet fails to change it or do anything about it, highlights this blatantly appropriative move, reinforcing a tradition of American (and Western) orientalism and appropriation.

words mean nothing i give up

these duders clearly cannot be trusted to name their own bands
i hereby dub them Wards of the State

'Ruff-Puffs' would be a good band name

Didn't a fuckload of young men flee to canada to escape the draft? I mean, Denmark didn't play a role as well, but we know who the Viet Cong were. I could def see a Danish band name themselves Viet Cong - or FARC or PLF or whatever - but I'd expect some kind of ready response to controversy. Or at least some kind of indication that there was a thought behind it, other than 'badass!'. I mean, 'Viet Cong' kinda describes the album pretty well.

Actually, the best Danish post-punk song ever used lyrics by Mao about Chinese women:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws1HYz7ojr0

Quite a coincidence, but any excuse to post that song. Bab bab. Baba-dee-oh-oh.

L.L. Qaeda

agree w mordy, framing this as "appropriation" or insensitivity to groups (or w/e) seems more like concern trolling than engagement with anything worth worrying about

Here's a particularly fine example of the "some"/"while others" construction:

http://mcgilltribune.com/a-e/pop-rhetoric-whats-in-a-viet-cong/

Some Vietnamese viewed them as freedom fighters battling long-standing western occupation, while other Vietnamese people were brutally killed or alienated by their violent guerilla campaigns.

yeah but who considered them badasses

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_MzYZcVIAQVKjP.png

lol
try again bozos

http://www.asianmanrecords.com/images/bands/pics/hardgirls.jpg

Ahem, allow me to quote:

The powerful associative effect of names is often misunderstood. While fondly thought of, mammalian names are a mistake--unless one chooses a mythical beast. A wild animal is a graceful creature that needs no clothes or grooming to look spectacular, and your onlookers--their expectations heightened--will inevitably be disappointed by the oafish onstage display of whatever crew of humanoids you've managed to muster. "Oh dear," they will say, "they are nothing like wolves/foxes/etc." If one hangs sucha name on one's group, one is raising the bar too high.

Male groups with "Girls" in their name have a similar problem. In literature and film, the "girl" represents the reader's/viewer's pure self-image. The audience is supposed to identify with the "girl," who is innocent, brave, artless, attractive, and clever (e.g., Chihiro of Spirited Away, Pippi Longstocking, and Dorothy Gale from The Wizard of Oz). Film noir is predicated on the opposite idea--that audiences like to identify with cynical, morally bankrupt, been-there done-thats. These roles are typically played by middle-aged men with five o'clock shadows (Humphry Bogart, Glenn Ford, Robert Mitchum). Most groups now resemble the stars of the noir genre, physically if not sartorially. Bands with "Girl" in their name are almost invariably these kinds of hairy and less attractive men. As a rule, then, males should avoid group names with "Girl."

(Ian Svenonius, Supernatural Strategies for Making a Rock'n'Roll Group

http://www.asianmanrecords.com/images/bands/pics/hardgirls.jpg

l-r: Humphry Bogart, Glenn Ford, Robert Mitchum

i do remember reading an incident wherein some college kid thought it would be clever to put a sticker for the band "this bike is a pipe bomb" on his bike. hilarity ensued. well, not really, but at least the kid's bike got dismantled.

ian svenonius otm

jeez you'd think these guys quoted the horst wessel lied on their record or something

Similarly, as a student booker who ultimately represents Oberlin by booking college-funded acts, I must be aware of Oberlin’s history as a progressive and highly conscious institution with an important legacy of social justice and action that needs to be upheld to this day. This legacy is seen notably in the student protests, demands, and direct action that took place on our campus during the Vietnam War in the late 1960s and early 1970s. In the spring of 1970, in response to the Kent State shootings and President Nixon’s decision to send troops into Cambodia as part of the war against North Vietnam, Oberlin College ended the semester two weeks early. Time reported: “Oberlin College President Robert Carr simply canceled final exams, gave all his students credits for their courses and turned over the campus to antiwar planning.” Students today commonly and falsely believe that Oberlin does not require its graduating students to don traditional commencement regalia simply because Oberlin is “quirky”; the truth is that the cap and gown was first rejected by students in protest of the Vietnam War and the United States’ involvement in it. As detailed in “Academic Regalia at Oberlin: the Establishment and Dissolution of a Tradition,” a monograph written by S.E. Plank and published in the Northeast Ohio Journal of History, “The abandonment of cap and gown by the senior class was multivalent in its effectiveness. The refund money from the gown rental could go to the student, to the Strike Fund (in support of the antiwar activities), or to a class gift fund in support of local community projects.

The dramatic contrast from traditional expectation vividly underscored that given the extraordinary circumstances of May, 1970, ‘business as usual’ was an impossible response. Certainly the innovative dress brought wider attention to the issues of the day and to the school itself.” To allow a band called “Viet Cong” to play a show and make money at Oberlin College would be in complete disregard of Oberlin’s radical history and of the values it professes to uphold.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fgomHGSQHEaVNrkIWmCGH1-wO61VoGhLnpr9NGCLyWY/edit

Imo the student was completely in the right to do this, and shows an awareness of genuine anti-war principles. Funny that most music sites writing about this don't talk about the activist history of Oberlin - for instance an alumni being arrested as one of the Chicago Seven - but surprise surprise at lack of anti-war stuff in media. /s

It seems like undercutting antiwar politics was just as big a part of the decision to cancel as the blog-headline worthy "offensive name? appropriation?" reasons.

http://pitchfork.com/news/58874-viet-cong-release-statement-regarding-name-controversy/

Our band, Viet Cong, has existed for a little over three years now. When we named ourselves, we were naive about the history of a war in a country we knew very little about. We now better understand the weight behind the words Viet Cong. While we don't take any concerns about the name lightly, we feel it is important to let you know that we never meant to trivialize the atrocities or violence that occurred on both sides of the Vietnam War. We never intended for our name to be provocative or hurtful.

We truly appreciate the seriousness of the feedback we've received, and we will continue to be open to listening to issues and concerns from all perspectives.

With love from the band Viet Cong.

I have reportage from their performance in Chicago on Friday night:

I wasn't there, but a friend was. He said that the festival crowd was definitely there to see VC and then there was a mass exodus before the headliner. That's all he had to say about the band Viet Cong.

what was the reaction to the band joy division at the time? was there an outcry?

I am officially on board with Viet Cong, unfortunate name notwithstanding. Joy Division comparisons are there, but there's a sinister edge to the proceedings, and an artistry that makes me shrug off the pretension as an asset rather than a curse, and some dark psychedelia as well.

http://pitchfork.com/news/61277-viet-cong-are-changing-their-name/

About time, love their pass agg "we were gonna do this anyway" part at the end.

these guys are good at playing rock music (or at least they were as Women - caught a really good set from them in the Public Strain era) but vv bad at picking names, they should let someone else come up with the next one

'Ruff-Puffs' would be a good band name

I stand by this

is the s/t any good? i've been listening to public strain recently and liking it. byrds + this heat ??

it's good, same sound/vibe but much less developed songwriting.