TS: Death Metal vs. Black Metal

so black metal for me aesthetically, musically, and production-wise. even really execrable black metal is usually enjoyable on some level.

Death metal is just something I listen to more often, I guess. It has the moody shit like Autopsy, the brutalasapanda shit like Suffocation, and the jolly "hey, we're technical! Guys! Check this out! HAHAH!AHAHAHH!" ones like Cynic's demos or Theory In Practice.
Both genres are, of course, as with all genres, chockfull of utter shit.
I guess part of the reason I have a higher opinion of death metal, is that I've not been forced to hear equally much utter shit, while black metal is something I've just heard SO fucking much of, and I mean, for every Graveland there's 100 Taakes and Dimmu Borgirs.

I'm glad I don't have to make this choice in real life though.

That aside, I can't really choose. Even within BM I have difficulty choosing between all the substyles, let alone consider the genre as a whole...

a)a bunch of long haired guys making unlistenable noise with pathetic lyrics
b)a bunch of long haired guys making unlistenable noise with pathetic lyrics, and then burning churches and killing each other in their spare time

....I think I go for a).....

Okay, I need some Black Metal to get into that I can get off of Soulseek but my Metal friends might not have. Can someone, Siegbran? J0hn? reccomend me something?

Bands like In the Woods have BM roots, but they've added and removed so much from the basic sound and aesthetic that a sample of people taken from a random BM show would probably hate it.

I do enjoy my Dissection and Enslaved CDs, but I don't listen to them as often as my Suffocation, Immolation, Morbid Angel, Gorguts, Death (arguably not 'pure' DM toward the end, but what do I care) and Zimmers Hole CDs (although they, too, are not only DM).

Doesn't help much if the vocals are either buried in loud guitars or unlistenable because of screaming or grinding.

You'll probably have a good laugh at the acronym used for the band Pain of Salvation then...

pos = ?

I hate Pain of Salvation, the term is applicable.

hehe
BM has more experimental offshoots, band like In the woods...kick fucking ass. DM is also crossing to to the halfway point, bands like Arkhon INfaustus, etc..
I guess DM doesnt have so many ponces like COF and the like, but it had a far wider scope and vision. (and BM women are sexier,heheh)

And we`re not recording at necrodeath, it cannot contain the vber kvlt nekroness of Niroth! hehehe

DDDDDDDIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGH!

And Immortals vocals are funny, but they do kick ass.
Kill!

Welp, I'm still going for death metal, as I just find myself listening more to the genre, despite my collection probably being closely divided to 50/50 on the two.

Still, "Blessed are the sick" VS "Ad Maiorem Sathanae Gloriam"
"Mental Funeral" VS "Pure Holocaust"
"Unholy Cult" VS "Herbstleyd",
The best of both genres can be quite excellent. There's obviously lots of good stuff on both sides for those with the palate for it. I do think black metal tends to be more emotional (in its own obscure way), but not always as musically satisfying.

Jesus sucks Satan in hell, fuck the false...prepare for Necrogeddon!

rog on point; the pre-buffalo/florida style (cannibal corpse and their retarded, pig-grunting progeny) i still enjoy quite a bit. i never really dug unleashed back in the day but i am _feeling_ it nowadays, ditto for morgoth.

true BM heads need to get Negura Bunget -n crugu braduli.

and _maiastru sfetnic_, which i rate even higher. and the ep before - that, really, they're hideously overlooked at this point. and far more 'progressive' than dimmu borgir, dammit.

I always wondered what was the biggest selling genre these days in America/Mainland Europe and especially in the UK between BM and DM

(it makes way better background music, for one thing.)

to answer the question, i generally prefer black.

I love both, but a higher percentage of Black Metal.

I've mentioned I'm a metal neophyte, but black metal for me, for several of the reasons listed early in the thread. Can't say I know all that much death metal, though, but I'm interested, esp. to start maybe with some blackened death metal -- anybody have any recommendations?

even with black metal though I tend to be more interested in the dark ambient/industrial/depressive stuff a la Burzum, Xasthur, Leviathan, experimental stuff a la Blut Aus Nord's "Mort" (the only BAN I'm familiar with, however) than the pummeling force of, say, Transilvanian Hunger. Haven't heard much black metal I didn't like, though, at least of the early 90s stuff and the newer American stuff.

Check out the new Portal album Outre.

Check out Dissection. They had a noticeable heavy metal influence in the guitar playing, lots of classical melody, and great vocals and songwriting.

Of their three albums "The Somberlain" is probably the most essential, the two opening tracks are stunning. The second, "Storm of the Light's Bane", is blacker and faster but can be a bit boring at times.

And the last one, "Reinkaos", recorded when Jon N. got out of prison, is a simpler and catchier affair. Total 80's heavy metal guitar playing, which pissed off many of the kvlt kiddies who were expecting Storm part II. I think it will be more appreciated over the years, definitely a grower.

In the mid-90s there had lots of imitators. Most people will recommend Sacramentum, and they are good, but I'd go for Unanimated's "Ancient God of Evil", probably the best Dissection-inspired metal for my money.

For more recent stuff, Necrophobic "Hrimthursum" was one of last year's biggest surprises. Very strong album, ferocious and melodic. Catch them live if you can, they were brilliant on tour.

Some of the Norwegian BM guys went deathlier in the turn of the century. Myrkskog and Zyklon are clinical, futuristic death-black metal bands which I don't like very much but are technically impressive. Haven't heard the Gehenna death metal albums, but read they were quite good.

Incantation are basically raw american death metal but effectively use some black and doom elements). Some middle-period Behemoth albums are cool black-death, like "Zos Kia Cultus" (earlier stuff is excellent pagan BM and more recent albums are overproduced Nile-influenced death metal).

xpost

"Of their three albums "The Somberlain" is probably the most essential, the two opening tracks are stunning. The second, "Storm of the Light's Bane", is blacker and faster but can be a bit boring at times."

Storm is the masterpiece. Every metal fan should own a copy. It still gets my vote for best melodic blackened death metal album ever made.

Most people I know also regard Storm as the essential Dissection album. The majestic melodies work better for me at the slower pace of the debut, I suppose. I wouldn't part with any of the three anyway, love them all.

Most people will recommend Sacramentum

And I am one of them - first two releases (Finis Malorum and Far Away From The Sun) are absolutely essential.

Death metal...black metal is for Casio players that picked up a guitar!

(j/k, I like both genres but give the nod to Death)

a few years ago, I would have said death metal any day, but black metal seems more interested in varying production styles...death metal bands used to have their own styles but even the shit I like lately seems pretty homogeneous. Good BM bands seem to have a stronger desire to stand out from their peers.

"Good BM bands seem to have a stronger desire to stand out from their peers."

you can probably just omit the BM from that sentence.

yeah I thought that, but there's variance within genres isn't there? don't some genres encourage/support/demand this quality more than others? when I think about DM vs. BM it always seems that the latter, at its best, has individuality as an ideological/aesthetic priority more than the former

not that there aren't a million cookie-cutter BM bands obviously, but death metal seems so stagnant to me for the last year or two...some bm band are still reaching for it, even if Watain and so on are sort of Dancin' To The Oldies

just given the fact that you can be one person and make black metal that is taken seriously gives people within the genre more freedom to explore.

i think a lot of talented people who, ten years ago, would have just joined or formed a straight up death metal band are happy now to mix and match sub-genres. there is less orthodoxy all around. the death metal that thrills me now is likely to be a viking folk metal album with splashes of doom and bm. not that i still don't love the ultra-orthodox grind/death/gore of old. and there are still surprises to be found in your average insane willowtip type techdeath bands. and varied sounds too!

yeah no I hear you, I enjoy those bands! the willowtip bands at the maryland death fest, those dudes brought game...Gorod I think was the French one who namechecked Willowtip every other song, dudes were rad. I am not hating on death metal! Just saying black metal's held more of my interest lately.

there are plenty of people who think that death AND black metal died in , like, 1992.

the only stuff i really hate on is bad metalcore and shitty gothenburg stuff. mostly cuz no matter how hard i pray, it never goes away.

john u said 'yeah no' !@#!@

I am into "yeah no"

my favourite black metal release remains 'nattens madrigal'

i used to be into a lot of the symphonic stuff - the summoning, enslaved, bloodthorn et al... i grew tired of all that gradually.

i still rate emperor. 'wrath of the tyrant' through to 'IX equilibrium' were all very good, with only the swansong somewhat tainting their fine oeuvre

some of my friends were mad about immortal, satyricon, borknagar... i never quite embraced them. i did, however, get into early mayhem and darkthrone. that schtik amused me, and still does.

and just to return to dissection, it's sort of strange how purposeful, well-crafted, and steeped in classic metal nodveidt's songs were. it would seem likely that most 'committed satanists' subscribing to the extracurricular cliches of the genre (murder etc.) would be too focused on ramming their evil philosophies home than constructing anything musically coherent. but nodveidt certainly didn't forget about songs

I dont buy the idea that metal is somehow more internally eclectic now - mixing death, black, doom and "classic" metal has always been popular, hell the whole Gothenburg sound was based on just that..

Bo Jackson Overdrive...let's be IL-enemies. ARCH enemies. It'll be fun.

"I dont buy the idea that metal is somehow more internally eclectic now - mixing death, black, doom and "classic" metal has always been popular"

yeah, i don't know about "internally" eclectic. I just mean that there is less pressure now to call yourself anything definite. at one time, calling yourself a death metal band could mean, like, 3 or 4 things. Now it could mean a zillion different things. mix & match metal is standard now. i'm also speaking as a yank too. where trad death metal is STILL considered by many to be the ONLY form of death metal and where bands that mixed doom and death and whatever are still considered "experimental" by a lot of people. and where bands are still pretty tradition-bound. black is black. doom is doom, etc. that's changing all the time now though. and the internet has a lot to do with that. there is a reason why cannibal corpse is still one of the biggest extreme metal bands in the u.s. though. and slayer! you know? we are meat and potato motherfuckers, what can i say. we make a mean pot roast, but we leave it to others to innovate with the spices and herbs.

You could put The Haunted on the cover of a metal mag every month in the states and people would be fine with that.

"just given the fact that you can be one person and make black metal that is taken seriously gives people within the genre more freedom to explore."

Is it not possible with death metal also? Example et øyeblikk.

Er, former Hypocrisy!

Peter Togtgren alone, is what I am meaning.

Death metal. I love its often percussive nature and shit like Vital Remains.

Nice to see you again!

ya when I see the word "metal" i pop up on instinct!