Bob Mould: Classic or Dud?

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Inspired by the Mould name-dropping in the TM thread.

I used to LOVE Bob Mould - specifically, Sugar. Specifically, _Copper Blue_. Specifically, "Helpless" and "The Slick". (Why I indentified so well with a vague song about a car crash, I don't know.) From there, I got into Husker Du & his solo work. Husker Du was a revelation for me @ that time, but Mould's solo work left me a bit unenthused.

I dare say his best album is his self-titled one, because it sounds like he's trying to do SOMETHING, trying to dig a bit deeper. _Workbook_ has some beautiful moments, and some pretentious ones (like the oft-praised "Brasilia Crossed With Trenton"). _Black Sheets of Rain_ is just too flat-rock for me - tepid & turgid to an extreme. I don't want to even try the latest album, though I did end up seeing him live during his tour for _Dog & Pony Show_. It was OK, but lackluster. Passionate, but detatched - like he's going through the motions. Maybe the other fannies were eating it up, but I was left blah.

So, now: SST-era Husker Du CDs stay in the collection, pulled out once in a blue moon (with _Everything Falls Apart_ getting the most recent play). Sugar CDs & Bob Mould CDs sold a few years ago. Kinda miss Sugar (the same way I've been nostalgic for Soundgarden the past few weeks); don't really miss the Mould solo stuff at all. To me, Bob Mould is the epitome of wasted potential. Given how I used to hold him in high regard, it's a shame.

― David Raposa, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

hey Dave, I agree with you on lots o things. Firstly, Bob Mould needs to pepper up his solo material a bit. Dog & Pony had too few moments on it for a full length release (mine even came with an interview disc!). I miss the days of Sugar. Those two albums + Beaster were the tightest Mould and his gang du jour ever sounded. I especially love 'Fortune Teller' and, yeah, 'Helpless'..it all takes me back to the 11th grade :D

Have to disagree with you about Black Sheets. As an album, it works because it's Bob acknowledging that he doesn't have to prove his cred to the die-hards anymore. And there's only a couple of unbearables like the sappy ballads off of Workbook or the '95 S/T release. Lots of straight-forward rockers on Black Sheets that sound good at the end of a hot hazy summer for some reason. I do miss the Huskers an awful lot (tho like you, Sugar was technically my intro to Mouldism)..Zen Arcade is still awesome. He could rock harder than any band in 2001, thats for sure.

― Peeeve, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I bought Copper Blue used years ago because a high school friend swore by it. I have never, ever seen what makes that album special.

― Josh, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

As one of the Mouldies over at the TM thread, I felt I should go deeper. I first caught on to Husker Du around the time of New Day Rising, and at the time, it was a sonic assault, the likes of which I'd never heard before. Bob's guitar was magnificent--overdriven to the extreme, yet somehow still very melodic. I thought that album was great, even the Grant stuff. Digging further into the Du's catalogue, I found myself more and more drawn to the Bob material, especially on the later releases. So maybe he wasn't the most technically accomplished guitar player in the world, but he had a way of taking these really chunky overdriven strums and making them sound like the only thing that mattered. Even on Warehouse, which everyone else seemed to hate, Bob was able to pull off a number of great power pop numbers, like "Turn it Around", "Could You Be The One?", "Friend, You've Got to Fall" and "These Important Years".

Bob's first solo period was uneven. Everyone praised Workbook, but I didn't get it--there were some fine numbers, to be sure, especially on the first half ("See a Little Light" rose to the top I figure). Black Sheets of Rain, on the other hand, was bleak bleak bleak--the songs were dull, there was no dynamic range (how can there be when the whole thing is full-on?) and I felt there was precious little emotion in the record, something which later Husker Du-era Bob had.

My expectations for Sugar were extremely low after that. It was a really lovely surprise, then, that I utterly adored Copper Blue, which I think had his best songwriting ever ("If I Can't Change Your Mind" remains my favourite song ever written, bar none), and the backing band gave him a spark that made the album fun and exciting again. Plus that guitar sound...mmmm boy! Beaster was darker but still very sonically interesting. And File Under: Easy Listening, while it wasn't up to previous standards, still had quite a few great tracks.

Solo era two...I think David is probably right that his self-titled album is overall his best, with a lot of great numbers and a couple of blasts of guitar noise guaranteed to annoy parents and neighbors. Dog and Pony has some good numbers, but disappoints.

Ultimately, Mould has thrown off some clunkers, but I think the good stuff far outweighs those. And hell, he'd get classic in my book even if was only for that guitar tone. Mmmm.

― Sean Carruthers, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I think the affect that album has on you depends on where you're coming from. _Copper Blue_ came (for me) right @ the beginning of my "underground music" exploration, and it totally blew my mind. Eventually, it lead me to other things (most notably, the SST posse), and the luster of that CD dimmer immensely. Once upon a time, though, _Copper Blue_ sounded FUN (like Mould & Co. had a thrill recording it).

All his work with Sugar (& later on, I'd gather) is very professional. Cleanly recorded in a dirty way, like Alan Moulder's production work, or _Loveless_. (One song off _File Under: Easy Listening_ "borrows" the melody from "Make a Wish". Also, he used to say something about his ideal show featuring MBV & Sugar on opposite ends of a football field making as much noise as possible.) Meticulous and modulated. Some inspired moments, sure - "If I Can't Change Your Mind" (as Sean noted), "Explode and Make Up", "Gee Angel". However, this professionalism arrived at the expense of any true passion. Sure, on _Beaster_, he screams his lungs out, but it all sounds pheff - not too different from the bevy of nu-metal poseurs out & about. It could just be a matter of him growing old / up - the intensity on older Husker Du material is apparent even when he's not screaming. Sugar sounds cool 'n' all dat, but it's not half as engaging as the messier stuff that preceeded it.

Sometimes I think that, on "I Hate Alternative Rock" ("I wish you had something new to say"), he's talking about himself. Ach - I feel like I'm talking about an ex-girlfriend that didn't live up to my expectations.

― David Raposa, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Husker Du - Classic

Bob Mould solo - Dud

Sugar - Classic

― alex in nyc, Wednesday, 4 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I'll second alex: husker du and sugar: classic, bobby moldy solo: blah

― Blake, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Sugar: dud in letters a continent high. Liked it for about two weeks then hated it with a vengeance. Hated the voice, hated the noise, hated the songwriting, hated the lyrics - every single thing I have ever hated and will ever hate about 'indie rock' in one ghastly package. Then of course it was overpraised to fuck and back and I hated it even more. Listening to it was like being forced to eat a sweaty grey T-Shirt. I have noted down the people who are saying they like it and will be paying less attention to their opinions in future: sorry and all, you're lovely people but it's that mediocre.

(I then heard a bit of Husker Du and didn't like that either. But nowhere near as little as Sugar.)

― Tom, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I think the word I'm looking for is: blimey!

Bobby btw is between C and D. Husker Du: Classic. "Copper Blue", when it came out i played it over & over & over again (esp. side 1). Then out of the blue: nothing. Haven't played it since. By the time the next Sugar album came out (crap name for a band also) didn't care anymore as did most of us.

― Omar, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I may have gone a little over the top actually, in that I dont really care what anyone else thinks of Sugar. But you have to find your enemies somewhere.

― Tom, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Sorry Tom but you'd best add another name to your list, everything Bob Mould has come into contact with *band-wise* has 'classic' stamped all over it. Can't say I've ever given his solo stuff much of a chance, but it sounded like a pale imitation of his earlier bombastic style, but still pisses over most of the so-called rock bands at the moment. 'Beaster' in particular rocks most viciously.

― Add, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Aww, but Tom...we're still nice people. *sniffle*

― Sean Carruthers, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Damn, Tom. Those who live in glass houses with pre-fab teen idols shouldn't throw stones lest they get dirty pop all over their chinos.

― David Raposa, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

In the early '90s, Sugar (and Throwing Muses -- hah!) were THE antidote to American indie rock for me. They had ZERO of that smug posturing attitude, none of that lazy "Oh we can PLAY our instruments, we just refuse to" mentality. They wrote pop songs with standard pop song structures, threw some noise in for good measure, and played it louder and with more conviction than most around them.

The only thing they really had in common with an indie band was that they loaded their own gear. All three members had been involved with music for ages and never showed much bitterness about their stature. They made some records, played a ton of shows, were professional and smart about what they did and got the fuck out.

Okay -- so they were on Creation in the UK and Ryko (hardly a Touch & Go or Merge) in the US. Technically they were an indie band. However, Sugar never possessed any of the negative connotations I associate with the word 'indie'. I don't care about how many people have regarded Bob Mould too highly. It's not as if he ever whored himself out for the attention. Besides, he was too busy watching wrestling.

― Andy, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Everything he did from Huskers to Beaster IS classic. The turning point is the Sugar album F.U.E.L., that album and everything after is a fucking dud.

― Cash Lone, Sunday, 8 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I never really got Sugar/Husker Du/Mould either. I can see how influential their sound was but that's about it. And my did the fruits of their roots go bad. NME naming 'Copper Blue' the best album of 1992 was almost as weird as them picking Queens Of The Stone Age last year.

― Nick, Monday, 9 July 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

10 months pass...

Thank you David Raposa, I think you understadn what Ive been trying to do with my work better than thouse some people who only have negative things to say about anothers person love +work. If you dont like it, DO SOMETHING BETTER!!!!!

― Bob Mould, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I want to believe...

― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I bailed out after finding 'Workbook's' acoustic melancholy tepic but still rever the man. Mould's contributed more in many a Hüsker Dü solo than some decent bands do in 5 albums. Joe Carducci (plausibly) suggested Mould forming Sugar after seeing Nirvana's sales figures, and 'Copper Blue' is desperately drab, but 'wasted potential?' is way off the mark imho.

― stevo, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

tepic = tepid

― stevo, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Has anyone seen Hedwig and the Angry Inch yet? Bob Mould is playing on the soundtrack. i hate all his bands and his solo career so this is the best things hes done (except for the wrestling script writing of course).

― hamish, Saturday, 25 May 2002 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Husker du were one of the great bands. There is a tendancy to blame these guys (w/ pixies) for grunge but don't OK.

Solo= don't like it. The songwriting isn't on that great level.

Sugar= got copper blue and beaster. I love it! I can't undestand Tom's hatred of them. The NME (for once) got it right!

― Julio Desouza, Monday, 27 May 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

There's two discrete solo periods for Bob, and I think in both cases the first album outshone the second. I liked Workbook just fine, but Black Sheets I found a bit dreary. I liked the self-titled one just fine, but the Last Dog and Pony Show had less sparkling moments...still, thought they were tons better than much of the other stuff I heard on the radio, so.

― Sean Carruthers, Monday, 27 May 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

sean- got workbook and found it really disappointing. Didn't get anything else (another example of me getting one thing and not trying another if I'm disappointed).

― Julio Desouza, Monday, 27 May 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

Workbook is certainly disappointing if you are expecting full-out sonic assault ala Hüsker Dü, but it was actually quite a pleasure at the time, I remember. If I also remember correctly, the production on the album hasn't particularly aged well. I think there are still a number of songs on Workbook that are top notch, though: introspective yet angry, and still very melodic.

― Sean Carruthers, Monday, 27 May 2002 00:00 (10 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

Reviving because ol' Bob apparently has a blog

― Elvis Telecom (Chris Barrus), Monday, 19 January 2004 23:56 (9 years ago) Permalink

holy shit! That's awesome. I remember this old SPIN cartoon where the author finds himself wondering what David Byrne is doing that very second and imagines Byrne playing a pair of congas. Soon, if we're curious, we won't have to wonder.

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 20 January 2004 00:03 (9 years ago) Permalink

His take on the whole 'Bush=Hitler' thing and the place of nuance (implicitly) in political discussion makes me happy.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 20 January 2004 00:08 (9 years ago) Permalink

first i find out he's gay. then i find out he's got a blog. now i find out he djs electronica????
i obviously haven't been paying attention since beaster.

― mullygrubber (gaz), Tuesday, 20 January 2004 00:14 (9 years ago) Permalink

The Huskers stuff is more or less all classic. Up through Flip Yr Wig, Mould's songs were typically stronger than Hart's. Then for some reason on Candy Apple Grey, Bob's 'rock' songs are boring and his acoustic ones are amazing.

I like Sugar, and like nobody else I liked File Under more than Copper Blue. "Gee Angel" and "Explode & Make Up" and "Your Favorite Thing" are fucking brilliant. The live disc that came with Besides is also absolutely amazing. I really wish I had seen Sugar live; a bit too young.

His only solo stuff I've heard is the s/t one, and it's great, especially the quieter stuff. The harder/louder stuff sounds a little bizarre without a real band.

― Ian Johnson (orion), Tuesday, 20 January 2004 04:00 (9 years ago) Permalink

"Black Sheets of Rain" is better than you might expect and it was even better live. That band was a pretty good one: Tony Maimone on bass and Anton Fier on drums. It is really dark and angry. You can usually pick this one up for a buck or two.

After Sugar, I just can't get with what Bob has been doing. It started going wrong with that record where he did all of the instruments and the little I have heard after that one wasn't my thing.

Husker Du, parts of his first two solo records and Sugar are great.

It would be nice if Bob Mound could get over it and come to terms with Grant Hart. Even 15 years down the line, it seems like there is some really bad blood between them. Mould seems to want to write Grant Hart out of the history of the band or something. What a grudge or power trip. Mind you this is all based on reading bunches of interviews with both of them. Considering how Sugar ended up, a pattern seems somewhat evident.

Sugar was really good and much more intense live. It was a pretty brave move on Mould's part to tour a few times with that band before they had a record out. I saw them a couple of times, once at Bogarts in Cinci before anything had come out and once later on in Chicago. They were a blinding wall of sound live.

Never saw Husker Du. They were my favorite band when I was 17-18 years old and broke up my senior year in high school. A friend of mine used to have a tape of Husker Du playing on the Joan Rivers show, they did two songs and the set that looked like the cover of Warehouse: Songs and Stories. Joan also had them over briefly to be interviewed. My friend's Mom taped over it a couple of years later...what a loss. (This is the kind of thing that would be great on some deluxe Husker Du reissue, but Bob and Grant haven't been able to work things out to make something like this happen.)

― earlnash, Tuesday, 20 January 2004 04:19 (9 years ago) Permalink

Mound = Mould

Sorty...sorry.

― earlnash, Tuesday, 20 January 2004 04:25 (9 years ago) Permalink

I saw the "Black Sheets of Rain" here in NYC and, I mean, I had no opinion about the guy, a total feh reaction, but the show made my head explode. Especially, as noted by others, the guitar tone, and how purely pissed off he seemed.

― Ian Grey (Ian_G), Tuesday, 20 January 2004 05:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

My introduction was Copper Blue, which I still love to this day. I have the entire Huskers, Sugar and solo catalogue and can honestly say I have a genuine love for every record, with the exception of Modulate, which I just can't seem to connect with. The Loudbomb album I liked a lot better, but Modulate seemed too stuck between two worlds for me, and I found some of it made me cringe in the same way 'Megamanic' on Dog & Pony Show did.

It would be nice if Bob and Grant buried the hatchet, it would be great to hear the older albums remastered, particularly as they have never really been done justice on CD. But that seems unlikely, even as recently as Modulate the Grant-bashing persists (I thought the line "Some deadbeat Dad who lives at home" in The Receipt was particularly hurtful, Grant also claims that Bob cryptically reveals Grant's address in the lyrics to that song.)

I only saw Sugar once, in 1994 shortly after FU:EL came out - it was one of the biggest disapointments of my life. You just couldn't hear the guitar or vocals at ALL. Several audience members were trying to alert the band to this fact but to no avail.

Perhaps because Sugar were my favourite band when I was fifteen I still feel a very powerful emotional connection with Bob's songs, particularly those on Copper Blue and Warehouse. But I also believe he does the vulnerable lyrics/loud guitars thing better than anybody else. To this day, I tend to put a Bob record on to listen to loud, through headphones, late at night when I'm drunk!

All time favourites would be Zen Arcade, New Day Rising, Warehouse:Songs and Stories, Beaster.

Weaker moments: Candy Apple Grey (in term's of Bob's songs), Modulate.

Pretty much everything else, classic!

― wombatX (wombatX), Monday, 31 May 2004 11:14 (8 years ago) Permalink

Love Husker Du with a vengence, one of my favourite bands ever.

Haven't heard Sugar. Bought 'Modulate' the other day. It's okay, not outstanding, but something I'll listen to again, even though he sounds disturbingly like Dave Grohl, which a friend pointed out to me. Haven't heard anything else of his solo stuff, but apparently it's better. So, I'll have to get it.

Can I just say though, Grant Hart's 'Intolerence' is definitely worth getting.

― Sasha (sgh), Monday, 31 May 2004 13:48 (8 years ago) Permalink

Back in 2001, I wrote...

Husker Du - Classic

Bob Mould solo - Dud

Sugar - Classic

-- alex in nyc (vassife...), July 4th, 2001.

Looking back, that seems a bit harsh. While I still prefer Husker Du and Sugar, there have been moments in Bob's solo work that have been quite good.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 31 May 2004 13:54 (8 years ago) Permalink

I really like Black Sheets. I remember getting the album, playing it a lot, and seeing a great Mould show at Bogart's in Cincinatti that same week. He was definitely on that night and the songs sounded terrific, and I was able to get even more into the album after that. I quite like "Stop Your Crying."

― shookout (shookout), Monday, 31 May 2004 14:39 (8 years ago) Permalink

I just don't get it. With Husker Du Bob wrote & sang fantastic noisy-but-melodic songs and played guitar to match...then the band breaks up and it all goes to hell. Virtually nothing from his first two solo recs was memorable to me, so I hesitated buying Sugar until overwhelming universal praise won me over. And again...almost nothing. Two, maybe three memorable songs and zero guitar heroics. This guy used to SHRED: the best hardcore-derived guitarist in my opinion (including Greg Ginn), and now...who knows? It's like he's embarrassed or can't stand the noise or something. Where have his gifts gone? I don't understand it and I don't like it. And now I understand that he's turned to electronics like his hero Pete Shelley - wonder what that sounds like?

― Myonga Von Bontee (Myonga Von Bontee), Monday, 31 May 2004 16:32 (8 years ago) Permalink

I agree the quality isn't consistent on Bob Mould and Last Dog & Pony Show, however I find Workbook an enormously comforting and warm record. I kind of see Black Sheets as it's darker companion in the same way as Copper Blue/Beaster.

Sasha otm re: Intolerance - we need a Grant Hart thread..

― wombatX (wombatX), Monday, 31 May 2004 23:36 (8 years ago) Permalink

And again. "Intolerance" is prob my single fav record connected to Husker Du, incredibly fragile/sloppy and beautiful.

― Mr Mime (Andrew Thames), Monday, 31 May 2004 23:39 (8 years ago) Permalink

Sugar is bargain bin classic.

― Be sure to Loop! Loop, Loop, Loop. (ex machina), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 12:00 (8 years ago) Permalink

he sounds disturbingly like Dave Grohl

don't blame bob for that; he came first. although i always thought grohl was a bit closer to grant hart.

love love love husker du, although they started sliping on the last couple albums. i find sugar a tad bit less interesting than, say, jimmy eat world. not a huge waste of talent, just the usual steady decline.

― fact checking cuz (fcc), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 13:26 (8 years ago) Permalink

"See A Little Light" is faboo. Much of the rest of his solo output flies by me in a blur, tho there are songs here and there that stick out. I haven't paid attention to him since Sugar broke up (and even then I wasn't paying much attention to Sugar).

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 1 June 2004 17:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

i just had this dilemma while going through and purging my cd collection. I've spared workbook and black sheets for the last six or seven purges (s/t and dog and pony were not so lucky; I'll keep the husker du albums I have; no-one will take copper blue away from me). I haven't made up my mind. I think what will probably save them is that I can't really sell them anywhere for anything over a dollar. Workbook is very dated productionwise, and like a lot of music of the same time (REM, specifically), I just have a hard time listening to it. It doesn't really bring back bad memories, but it seems like something that's steeped in a part of my life (college) that I'm just not interested in. Black Sheets's last track shreds though.

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 18:04 (8 years ago) Permalink

yeah, there's stuff on both of those albums that sound really cold and clunky, production-wise. And Anton Fier's drums sound like cardboard boxes.

― Shakey Mo Collier, Tuesday, 1 June 2004 18:06 (8 years ago) Permalink

his drums always sound like that. I don't really "get" anton fier.

― kyle (akmonday), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 18:08 (8 years ago) Permalink

Husker Du - dud
Sugar - dud
Bob solo - dud

He just seems so unimaginative, so lacking in spark. Sure, he had a good guitar sound. That doesn't give him license to make bog-standard indie fuzz songs for 20 years.

― paulhw (paulhw), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 19:12 (8 years ago) Permalink

Just listening to "Hoover Dam" for the first time in years; it sounds like Marillion! Not that there's anything wrong with that. Dick period anyway.

― Keith Watson (kmw), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 21:02 (8 years ago) Permalink

The moments in Bob Mould's solo career I think hold up to Husker Du and Sugar: "See A Little Light," "Whichever Way The Wind Blows," "Black Sheets Of Rain," "Anymore Time Between," "Next Time That You Leave," "Egoverride," "Hair Stew," "Roll Over And Die," "Trade."

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 21:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

oh, and "New #1."

― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 1 June 2004 21:55 (8 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 103 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

The first NYT (daily) review says they took their BFs on the road with them at times.

― joyless shithead (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 June 2011 15:56 (1 year ago) Permalink

Azerrad's Our Band... mentioned it too.

― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 June 2011 15:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

Eh. I mean, I've never wondered if the members of Veruca Salt were lovers or if Fred Schneider and Ricky Wilson ever had a thing going.

― Pleasant Plains, Monday, 27 June 2011 15:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

Use your imagination!

― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 27 June 2011 16:01 (1 year ago) Permalink

Hell, if we're using our imagination, why do we keep excluding Greg Norton?

― Pleasant Plains, Monday, 27 June 2011 16:05 (1 year ago) Permalink

The 1983 issue of me and my buddy's Thrillseeker fanzine had an interview with Husker Du (that someone did for us) but it never included such questions. Maybe Tesco Vee discussed such things!

― curmudgeon, Monday, 27 June 2011 16:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

Huskerslash

― joyless shithead (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 June 2011 16:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

I've never wondered if the members of Veruca Salt were lovers

i'm pretty sure i wondered this

― ~edgy~ (goole), Monday, 27 June 2011 16:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

The whole homosexuality thing with Husker Du… I don't know how to put it. I don't want it swept under the rug when talking about the band, but it was such a "novel" thing back in the day for most punk fans, it has a tendency to get overblown.

also, its weird to me (beyond some journos' general ignorance of the hardcore scene beyond its biggest names) that HD's homosexuality is regarded as a total anomaly, when, in the Texas scene at least, there were a number of out-and-proud gay hardcore rockers - thinking the Big Boys' randy turner and the dicks' gary floyd in partic.

― his name was rony. rony from my cage. (stevie), Monday, 27 June 2011 16:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

i mean, obv. it wasn't the norm, but...

― his name was rony. rony from my cage. (stevie), Monday, 27 June 2011 16:22 (1 year ago) Permalink

a lot of very serious wondering

― ~edgy~ (goole), Monday, 27 June 2011 16:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

What I find weird is thinking of HD as anything more than 'incidentally' h/c after Metal Circus

― joyless shithead (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 June 2011 16:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

at least a side and a half of zen arcade is demonstrably h/c?

― his name was rony. rony from my cage. (stevie), Monday, 27 June 2011 16:38 (1 year ago) Permalink

I assume most intraband friction stems from erotic tension. It's natural to wonder whether two gay men in a band were lovers.

― The Edge of Gloryhole (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, June 27, 2011 11:49 AM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I agree. I always wondered if dudes like Jorma Kaukonen was nailing Grace Slick, or if Bob Weir was getting head from Donna Godchaux.

― Thraft of Cleveland (Bill Magill), Monday, 27 June 2011 16:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

sort of, but not fully? you mean "Dreams Reoccurring", eg? xp

― joyless shithead (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 June 2011 16:45 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm thinking most of side 3 in particular - biggest lie, masochism world, pride, etc...

― his name was rony. rony from my cage. (stevie), Monday, 27 June 2011 16:49 (1 year ago) Permalink

ok. I haven't listened to ZA in over a decade, probably.

― joyless shithead (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 June 2011 17:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

Brief review in WSJ by Ken Kurson.

Kurson was the bassist in legendary 80s/90s Chicago band Green. Mould was a fan of Green, and insisted they open HD's final Chicago show.

― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 27 June 2011 17:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

K.K. no doubt revving up for Giuliani 2012

(we were co-workers and used to hung out a bit, before he went full Republican)

― joyless shithead (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 June 2011 17:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

Interesting. I played in his post-Green band (the Lilacs) for a bit. Not a trace of conservatism in him at all in those days (early 90s). Always wondered how/why the transition happened.

― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 27 June 2011 17:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

Eh. I mean, I've never wondered if the members of Veruca Salt were lovers or if Fred Schneider and Ricky Wilson ever had a thing going.

Oh come on, pleasant plains. This is Homosexuality 101 shit. With homosexuality erased from history to an enormous extent and bullies/trolls (what's the difference?) like history mayne or Camille Paglia "requiring" hard evidence for homosexuality to even exist in most historical instances, it becomes crucial, sometimes life-saving, to seize and insist upon (hi)stories of homosexuality. I'm assuming you're straight which might explain why you don't care about Mould's or whoever's homosexuality. But for most gay people, it's of monumental importance.

Besides do you have to be gay or even care about a Mould/Hart relationship to be interested in homosexuality in a hardcore/punk/Amerindie/whatever scene? And is that "transmutation of wrath into flight" in Hüsker Dü's music 100% unrelated to the homosexuality of the band members? To paraphrase D.A. Miller's superb essay "Anal/Rope," it seems as if you're determined to acknowledge
Mould/Hart's homosexuality so as to prevent it from entering into an eventual understanding of Hüsker Dü's music.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Monday, 27 June 2011 17:58 (1 year ago) Permalink

Kevin, maybe I wasn't clear. I'm all about discussing the bandmembers' sexuality and especially coming from a 99% hetero-culture that wasn't always that supportive, despite supposedly liberal punk rock attitudes. I do want to hear how it was accepted 30 years ago, how it affected their craft and even the WE. ARE. SPARTA! descriptions of the band's habits on the road are insightful.

My hang-up only comes from the Did they?/Didn't they? gossip around whether Grant and Bob were lovers. Not whether they were gay or should be out about it. It seems like it cheapens their orientation and cheapens real talk about the band, from icy moodswings from Bob to Grant's drug use.

As it is now, John Lennon and Brian Epstien having an affair is more worthy of discussion than Grant Hart and Bob Mould having a physical relationship.

I never took Homosexuality 101. It wasn't an elective offered to me.

― Pleasant Plains, Monday, 27 June 2011 18:08 (1 year ago) Permalink

hey Tarfumes, I saw the Lilacs play at Coney Island once, were you in the band then?

― joyless shithead (Dr Morbius), Monday, 27 June 2011 18:15 (1 year ago) Permalink

xpost I don't see a difference between "discussing the bandmembers' sexuality" and "gossip around whether Grant and Bob were lovers," esp. given the crucial role gossip plays in histories of disenfranchised people. But I'm willing to leave it at that.

I never took Homosexuality 101. It wasn't an elective offered to me.

Doesn't usually exist as an elective per se. But I'm sure you've taken it to some extent. ILM, for instance, offers course credit.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Monday, 27 June 2011 18:18 (1 year ago) Permalink

Just don't accidentally sign up for Homosexuality 101-B. That one includes a lab.

― Whitey G. Bulgergarten (Phil D.), Monday, 27 June 2011 18:20 (1 year ago) Permalink

fwiw, i took Heterosexuality 101 as a correspondence course.

― Pleasant Plains, Monday, 27 June 2011 18:32 (1 year ago) Permalink

xpost

haha. the lab was my favorite part!!!!!!

― Kevin John Bozelka, Monday, 27 June 2011 18:37 (1 year ago) Permalink

hey Tarfumes, I saw the Lilacs play at Coney Island once, were you in the band then?

Ha, actually, I couldn't do those east coast shows because I couldn't get time off work. I did do a few shows with them that summer, but they were all in Chicago.

― shake it, shake it, sugary pee (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Monday, 27 June 2011 18:39 (1 year ago) Permalink

Good interview at The AV Club today: http://www.avclub.com/articles/bob-mould,58231/

― Michael Bay, CEO of Transformers (Phil D.), Wednesday, 29 June 2011 12:51 (1 year ago) Permalink

Interesting interview.

― curmudgeon, Wednesday, 29 June 2011 14:48 (1 year ago) Permalink

I'm enjoying the book so far.

Also, Grant's still kind of a jerk when you talk to him

― Crazed Mister Handy (kingfish), Thursday, 30 June 2011 04:57 (1 year ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

Read the first 100 pages of this today in one sitting. It's good (and I'm way more Mats than Husker)

― If Assholes Could Fly This Place Would Be An Airport, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 19:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

I read the book and enjoyed it overall but left it liking Mould less; I can see why the band was an untenable situation, he and Hart seem like just entirely different people. Mould comes off as a bit of an egomaniac, hugely self-involved and often foul-tempered and humorless. Still, couldn't put the book down. I know Hart pretty well and the portrait of him Mould paints, while not pretty, is quite accurate, even if it ignores the better parts of his personality. It's a wonder they made as many albums as they did.

― thirdalternative, Wednesday, 31 August 2011 21:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

Given that the Huskers are all over this site at the moment , I'll resurrect a Bob thread.

Just stumbled across some reviews for his new one"Silver Age'. Seem very positive. Believe me, twenty years ago, I would've bought it by now, but these days I'm out the loop

Apologies if this has been done. I did search.

Any reaction out there. It rocks apparently. Anti Blowout

― Jessie Fer Ark (Mobbed Up Ping Pong Psychos), Thursday, 6 September 2012 21:27 (8 months ago) Permalink

I'm not even really a big Huskers/Sugar/Mould fan and I think it's amazing, top to bottom. Can't even believe how much I dig it.

It's like he drank whatever miracle elixir brought Superchunk back two years ago. Or maybe it's all about Jon Wurster.

Anyway, the Mould album is streaming at Rolling Stone. You can listen for yourself.

http://www1.rollingstone.com/hearitnow/player/bobmould.html

― alpine static, Thursday, 6 September 2012 23:21 (8 months ago) Permalink

The album is really, really good. Nothing you haven't heard before, but a remarkable summation/conflation of his various bands, Husker Du/Sugar in particular.

― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 6 September 2012 23:40 (8 months ago) Permalink

Nothing you haven't heard before,

― curmudgeon, Friday, 7 September 2012 05:05 (8 months ago) Permalink

Gonna see him and band tonight do Sugar's Copper Blue and the new "Silver Age"

― curmudgeon, Friday, 7 September 2012 19:10 (8 months ago) Permalink

http://m.stereogum.com/pl/1142922/watch-bob-mould-kick-ass-on-letterman/video/

This is better than the album by a country mile, mind you.

― Three Word Username, Friday, 7 September 2012 19:12 (8 months ago) Permalink

I interviewed him last week, and I asked him if he was worried that playing "Copper Blue," his most popular album, would overshadow the new album, and he immediately answers "not after you hear us play the new stuff."

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 7 September 2012 19:17 (8 months ago) Permalink

i haven't listened much to either of his bands but a friend recorded & mixed this, so i'm gonna check it out

― 40oz of tears (Jordan), Friday, 7 September 2012 19:17 (8 months ago) Permalink

aw bob was so good and cuet on letterman

― Jandek at the Disco (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, 7 September 2012 19:57 (8 months ago) Permalink

i read his autobio in one sitting last night and it made me like him a lot less. comes off as a totally humorless, bland, self-serious and helplessly self-obsessed big baby. there's something really plain about his songwriting and lyrics, even in husker, that just doesn't do it for me. even tho i love husker. and some of his solo stuff. and some sugar songs. but i never really get super into them...there's something so plain about his songs, i can't quite pin it down

― spazzmatazz, Saturday, 8 September 2012 02:40 (8 months ago) Permalink

Something about BM even daring to try and write an autobiography, to get it out there, seems so strange to me. At least before his twilight years.

For years you couldn't even get a photo of him on his albums. Maybe the suspicions I had of him were best kept wrapped up in that Back Sheets of Rain/Beaster-type tortured persona. But he's happier now, so whatevr.

― Master of Treacle, Saturday, 8 September 2012 04:44 (8 months ago) Permalink

Saturday night at the 930 Club in W. DC saw he and his band (Superchunk's drummer) do Sugar's Copper Blue and the new "Silver Age" plus Husker Du cuts "Celebrated Summer", "I Apologize," and "Makes No sense at all." At times the vocals were too muffled. Maybe he likes it that way--with the treble up and the guitar buzzing very loudly. Not much variety, just cathartic, adrenalin releasing speedy tunes.

― curmudgeon, Monday, 10 September 2012 03:16 (8 months ago) Permalink

i thought the mix was a little off! i was way up stage left in front of the FOH board - though honestly from that vantage pt pretty much anything i've seen at 930 sounds trebly as hell

really liked how the copper blue stuff came off live - very powerful slowed-down arrangement of "the slim" for example. haven't spent a ton of time with silver age but i like it a lot so far

― scream blahula scream (govern yourself accordingly), Monday, 10 September 2012 03:21 (8 months ago) Permalink

"The Slim" did sound great. He sped up "Fortune Teller" though. I did not head over to Black Cat for Mission of Burma afterwards though. That was probably noisy and great too

― curmudgeon, Monday, 10 September 2012 12:09 (8 months ago) Permalink

Was looking at some set lists last night. Mould has been varying the Husker Du songs he's been doing on the tour

― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 11 September 2012 13:27 (8 months ago) Permalink

Part of the Williamsburg bill:

Copper Blue plus
The Descent
Round the City Square
Hardly Getting Over It
Could You Be The One
I Apologize
Chartered Trips
Keep Believing
--
Something I Learned Today (feat. Craig Finn)
In A Free Land
--
Makes No Sense At All

― curmudgeon, Tuesday, 11 September 2012 13:32 (8 months ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

Haven't heard this yet, but I'm on the list to get ahold of it from my local library. I just noticed a couple of things:

Song title "The Descent"
Silver Age = Silverage?

Nods to former SST label-mates The Descendents? You tell me.

― how's life, Saturday, 29 September 2012 11:58 (7 months ago) Permalink

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