The Bad Plus - These Are The Vistas

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I can't stop listening to this album. It's a piano trio with Dave King from Happy Apple playing drums. The jazz album for people who don't like jazz? I guess I wouldn't know, but it was in the pop section in the record store!

(they cover Smells Like Teen Spirit)

(and it rocks)

(but is not rock)

(and Aphex Twin and Blondie)

(and they rock too)

(and it is beautiful)

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 05:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

this sounds scary

― jess (dubplatestyle), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 05:09 (10 years ago) Permalink

Well I like jazz but I also like "The Bad Plus". Not sure the album quite captures how great they are live, but I've only listened to some of it so far, so my opinion could change. When I saw them they played some of Ornette's "Science Fiction" with five guest horn players, which was more "out" than the stuff on the album and provided a nice astringent contrast. (Though to be fair their own stuff shows plenty of Ornette and (particularly) Cecil Taylor influences).

I haven't marshalled enough evidence to really make the argument but I feel that if some acoustic bands who are mixing jazz and rock/pop (The Bad Plus/Esbjorn Svensson) had rerecorded their albums using drum machines, electronic instruments etc they'd be being hailed as great innovators. As it is, in jazz terms they sometimes get dismissed as safe, watered down, not jazz, jazz for rock fans etc. Especially where the same critics are involved, I suspect there's a deal of hypocrisy in this. Either way, a lot of the music is very beautiful.

― ArfArf, Tuesday, 25 February 2003 10:56 (10 years ago) Permalink

I heard the Smells Like Teen Spirit on the radio. It's very impressive, as in it does not sound like a novelty jazz cover version. I would go and see them this Wednesday if I wasn't off to The Chalets instead.

― DV (dirtyvicar), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 11:04 (10 years ago) Permalink

Their version of "Smells" is pretty good; "Heart of Glass" is pretty disappointing, though. Plus, it sounds like this thing was recorded in the world's biggest empty room. Still worth getting, though.

― TMFTML (TMFTML), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 14:17 (10 years ago) Permalink

I suspect they agree - when I saw them I think they played everything on the album except Heart of Glass.

― ArfArf, Tuesday, 25 February 2003 14:59 (10 years ago) Permalink

I rather like Heart of Glass though it's not one of my favorites on the album...when they break into that disco beat at the end it's unexpected and pretty joyous.

I've heard them compared to the Esbjorn Svensson Trio, tell me more about them?

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 25 February 2003 16:22 (10 years ago) Permalink

EST are a Scandinavian jazz trio (piano,bass,drums) who have been together since at least the early nineties and have released several albums. They are somewhat less "out" harmonically/rhythmically than The Bad Plus. They play jazz with a rock-inflected feel and occasionally use electronics and other effects subtly to enhance the trio sound. Svensson is a melodically gifted composer and improviser and the band interplay is subtler and more telepathic than TBP.

Like TBP, bound to piss off some jazz purists, and also foax who think you can't like Cecil Taylor AND more accessible stuff.

Best albums are "Plays Monk" (the jazziest), "Winter In Venice" and "From Gagarin's Point of View". If you want to download a single track for a taster, I'd try the title track from "From Gagarin's Point of View". It's a little more composed through and electronically treated than most of their work and, ok, a LITTLE sugary, but a good illustration of Svensson's melodic (I don't think this is putting it too strongly) genius. I can't imagine any IDM fan who listens to this track with an open mind not liking it.

― ArfArf, Wednesday, 26 February 2003 11:23 (10 years ago) Permalink

2 months pass...

i musta missed this thread. "teen spirit" and "flim" are great.

― mitch lastnamewithheld (mitchlnw), Sunday, 11 May 2003 10:45 (10 years ago) Permalink

I think the Bad Plus mostly suck - why do so many modern jazzbos have such square/predictable taste in pop covers? - but I like EST a lot - my fave alb of theirs is 'Good Morning Susie Soho', where they get the pop/jazz/electronica balance just abt spot-on. The alb after it, [something] [something] 'Snow', is a bit too bland to really chew on, tho'.

Also worth a mention - Bugge Wesseltoft's 'New Conceptions of Jazz' albs, esp. 'Sharing' 'cos it's got Nils Petter Molvaer on it, who is sort've the daddy of this stuff, and the new Dave Douglas, 'Freak In', is a semi-successful attempt to mix sampling/electronics w/ the sound/spirit of 'Bitches Brew'-era Miles.

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Sunday, 11 May 2003 11:12 (10 years ago) Permalink

Dave King = best drummer working the creases between rock and jazz now. Gobstoppingly good live.

― Sasha Frere-Jones (Sasha Frere-Jones), Sunday, 11 May 2003 20:28 (10 years ago) Permalink

Indeed! The new Happy Apple has really grown on me as well. I was supposed to see them again here a couple of days ago and get some more hot Dave King action but they cancelled. :(

As for the predictable covers, isn't the point to pick songs that everybody knows and wouldn't necessarily think to turn into vehicles for improvisation, a la Miles/Autumn Leaves for example? I think the familiar melodic material is important, and I like TBP's approach to 'new standards' a lot better than, say, Herbie Hancock.

― Jordan (Jordan), Sunday, 11 May 2003 23:48 (10 years ago) Permalink

7 months pass...

Columbia Records is set to release Give, the eagerly awaited new studio album from The Bad Plus, on Tuesday, March 9, 2004. With Give, The Bad Plus delivers eight original compositions and covers of Ornette Coleman, Black Sabbath and The Pixies. Once again, The Bad Plus has teamed up with Grammy-winning producer Tchad Blake, whose experimental signature sound has graced projects by Peter Gabriel, Pearl Jam, Los Lobos, Tom Waits, Elvis Costello as well These Are The Vistas.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 8 January 2004 20:48 (9 years ago) Permalink

I think The Bad Plus is kinda a'ight but honestly they come off to me as a really REALLY watered-down made-for-TV straightified version of Medeski Martin and Wood's acoustic side.

― nickalicious (nickalicious), Thursday, 8 January 2004 20:56 (9 years ago) Permalink

They're on tour this year too but no CA dates so far ... :(

― dean gulberry (deangulberry), Thursday, 8 January 2004 21:01 (9 years ago) Permalink

It sucks. They are very talented musicians and the drummer is very impressive, esp. on the Aphex "Flim," but it is novelty music for thirty-somethings, which is not necessarily bad, but a solid 6/10.

― Star Hustler, Thursday, 8 January 2004 21:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

Dude. I love MMW, but the LAST thing The Bad Plus is about is playing beats or soloing over grooves, even though they do it sometimes. I'm kind of sick of waxing rhapsodic over them, but to me they're all about melody. Also, they're WAY more concise and direct in their improvisations than anyone else right now.

(and seriously Nick, if you ever saw Dave King live, you would be converted, he's probably the most fun drummer to watch ever)

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 8 January 2004 21:04 (9 years ago) Permalink

I can definitely see how people would not be into how they treat the covers, but those are 1/3rd of the record. What makes the rest of the material 'novelty music' (let alone for thirty-somethings, and nicely done btw, that is a crushing diss :>)?

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 8 January 2004 21:11 (9 years ago) Permalink

I'm not dissing it, it is just MOR. But, this dude always plays it at work, and it has gotten under my skin one too many times.

― Star Hustler, Thursday, 8 January 2004 21:18 (9 years ago) Permalink

Yeah, I still think the BP have blindingly obv taste in 'pop' cover versions, and the list of suck-merchants their producer has been involved w/ hardly inspires confidence, either.

And after hearing the new EST alb far too many times at work, they can fuck off too.

― Andrew L (Andrew L), Thursday, 8 January 2004 21:39 (9 years ago) Permalink

As for the predictable covers, isn't the point to pick songs that everybody knows and wouldn't necessarily think to turn into vehicles for improvisation, a la Miles/Autumn Leaves for example? I think the familiar melodic material is important, and I like TBP's approach to 'new standards' a lot better than, say, Herbie Hancock.

On the other hand I do like, for example, Dave Douglas's extremely straight version of that Rufus Wainwright tune he did, but I wouldn't be interested in hearing a whole album of those kinds of treatments or doing it myself.

Besides, at least they aren't going to cover Radiohead.

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 8 January 2004 21:46 (9 years ago) Permalink

5 years pass...

Okay, I'm looking for a piece by Reid Anderson, their bassist, that the band plays live but doesn't seem to have commercially recorded called "People Like You".... can anyone help me out? I really really want a copy of this, it's very sweet and intense.

― sample rants or ?BURNS?. (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 22 August 2009 19:24 (3 years ago) Permalink

Also, saw them live for the fourth time last night; great show as per.

― sample rants or ?BURNS?. (forksclovetofu), Saturday, 22 August 2009 19:25 (3 years ago) Permalink

5 months pass...

sorry for the late reply but I saw someone else was looking for the song "people like you" I found a live version at http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=122131922
it's my favorite unrecorded song of theirs right now.

― ~dan, Friday, 22 January 2010 05:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

dude, thanks! it's my fave too and i'm listening to it with my girl right now.

― forksclovetofu, Friday, 22 January 2010 05:46 (3 years ago) Permalink

as dan pointed out in his ilx mail, people like you starts promptly at the 28 minute mark on that npr recording.

― forksclovetofu, Friday, 22 January 2010 05:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

ooh they played this in london, thanks dan!

there are two concerts on youtube that seem to be professionally filmed, does anyone know where they come from? would love hq versions of those!

― Crackle Box, Friday, 22 January 2010 14:17 (3 years ago) Permalink

and because this is awesome: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B6QM6DJ8

― forksclovetofu, Saturday, 23 January 2010 18:45 (3 years ago) Permalink

2 years pass...

new record out, i'm excited to check it out even though i skipped the last one (which includes the song forks was looking for above).

― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:03 (7 months ago) Permalink

Haven't really heard anything by them since Prog which was alright. Wasn't terribly excited about a vocal album.

― heated debate over derpy hooves (jon /via/ chi 2.0), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:17 (7 months ago) Permalink

the vocal record was pretty good (and half the tracks are instrumental arrangements of 20th century classical music), but they sounded amazing on that tour. it was a really memorable show, and i've seen them a bunch of times.

i never listened to Prog either.

― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:23 (7 months ago) Permalink

ha, i arrived late and got made to sit outside a venue and wait on that tour

― paradiastole, or the currifauel, otherwise called (thomp), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:37 (7 months ago) Permalink

(well, that year. they weren't touring, they were supporting ... charlie haden? at one of ornette coleman's meltdown festival events.)

― paradiastole, or the currifauel, otherwise called (thomp), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 19:37 (7 months ago) Permalink

you dodged a bullet there (unless horrendously sterile piano trio jazz w/ gurning drumbo showoffery is yr 'bag'.) mind you, i didn't think charlie haden was all that, that night.

― Ward Fowler, Tuesday, 25 September 2012 22:02 (7 months ago) Permalink

no, i would have thought that getting to see wyatt sing would have left me less unmoved. ornette, the next night, was enjoyable and odd, though.

― paradiastole, or the currifauel, otherwise called (thomp), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 22:52 (7 months ago) Permalink

i seem to recall that at one point he was onstage with a. the master musicians of jujouka b. flea, did i imagine this

― paradiastole, or the currifauel, otherwise called (thomp), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 22:52 (7 months ago) Permalink

People Like You starts at 28 minutes exactly on that NPR live recording. Still maybe my favorite track of theirs. Never seen them play a bad live show.

― EVERYONE COOKING SCMABLED EGGS,CHEESE WITH TOASTER!! (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 23:42 (7 months ago) Permalink

lol, i need to read my own damn posts.

― EVERYONE COOKING SCMABLED EGGS,CHEESE WITH TOASTER!! (forksclovetofu), Tuesday, 25 September 2012 23:42 (7 months ago) Permalink

forks, i mentioned it above but you know they did a studio recording of that song, right?

the new record is beautiful. highlights for me: the surprise epic synth riff at the end of "re-elect that", "for my eyes only" (really pretty), "wolf out" (odd-time banger), "in stitches" once it gets going (14 min track that feels much shorter).

― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Thursday, 27 September 2012 15:46 (7 months ago) Permalink

you did Jordan; I'm grabbing it and the new album off spotify now.

― EVERYONE COOKING SCMABLED EGGS,CHEESE WITH TOASTER!! (forksclovetofu), Thursday, 27 September 2012 17:34 (7 months ago) Permalink

gah we have to wait till 22nd oct here. idiots.

― Crackle Box, Friday, 28 September 2012 10:27 (7 months ago) Permalink

you dodged a bullet there (unless horrendously sterile piano trio jazz w/ gurning drumbo showoffery is yr 'bag'.)

soo offtm. they're really not very 'jazz', at all, 90% of the time it's songs and compositions with very little improvisation. the mechanical/sterility thing is one of best things about them. dave king is hardly a show off drummer, jesus christ, he barely plays half the time.

― Crackle Box, Friday, 28 September 2012 10:39 (7 months ago) Permalink

somehow don't think we're ever going to find much common ground on this one (tho i've never seen another drummer make such a meal of SHOWING us how minimally they're playing.) FWIW (not v much, truly), I went w/ to this show w/ three other ppl - one hardcore jazzer w/ fairly broad tastes, two lefty-punkers who attended lots of that year's meltdown gigs - and we all hated the bad plus, tho of course that cld just be group mind prejudice at work.

― Ward Fowler, Friday, 28 September 2012 10:58 (7 months ago) Permalink

These tracks are pretty fine

http://music.duke.edu/news/2012/09/10/tbp-recordings

...before one of these composers sent this to me, I'd mentally filed away The Bad Plus as some sort late-90s Fun Lovin' G-Love Sugar Ray Criminal type band, based on their name.

― bendy, Friday, 28 September 2012 12:21 (7 months ago) Permalink

thanks for that link. those descriptions of the pieces by the composers make me really glad not to be in grad school though.

― have a sandwich or ice cream sandwich (Jordan), Friday, 28 September 2012 15:39 (7 months ago) Permalink

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