Broken Social Scene...C/D?

i wholeheartedly agree, and would much rather be listening to justin timberlake.

some people listen to music because they like to "be cool"

and some people listen to music because they like music

maybe someday there will be an "I love to be cool" message board and you can make fun of all the uncool people out there.

that depends on who you listen to. but if you're implying that no one is pimping justin timberlake, then you're delusional

sure lots of great bands are pimped, promoted and/or talked up by elitist hipsters and bloggers, etc... I'm just saying there is not much difference between tv/celebrity worship fandom and elitist hipster fandom. they are both using "cool" as a way of selling something that, in an ideal world, ought to be sold on the merit of its musical quality. whatever quality that appeals to you or your taste, etc. an artist's image is not a musical quality. would david bowie's music be any less enjoyable if his face was covered in green warts?

forget I mentioned justin timberlake. any number of sad celebrity types could be used here. what about gene simmons? courtney love? michael jackson, etc. do you like the music or do you like the image, the hyper-public personae, the mask of exploitation? there's a difference there and that's the point.

I only implied that your motives are suspect with regards to hating a band because of the image you percieve them to have.

Why is that the point? I love both the hyper-public personae AND the music, both together, webbed through each other, constructing and destructing one another; the music you hear revealing or obscuring the singer you thought you knew in different ways; shake the kaleidoscope and it changes. Every band - just like every web post, every politician's speech, every book or every painting - is addressing a PUBLIC, and if that band doesn't give a toss about how they make that address they're abdicating participation in an entire complex part of their art. I don't know if Broken Social Scene do that, and I don't really care, since I've never liked what little music of theirs I've heard, but to claim they do is not exactly a shining recommendation in my book. In any case, every band has a scene, every group has its way of hailing and being received by a public, and that can be - and usually is - a crucial element into whether a particular person gets excited by them or is bored or offput. No one needs to justify that to anyone.

i don't know, marbles, i think the visual aspect of rock and pop music should be fun and/or mean something and to deny that it does kinda sucks a lot of life out of it. i don't mean everyone has to be beautiful - the way the minutemen and the ramones looked meant a lot too. you bring up bowie which is interesting, because he's probably one of the most image-conscious artists ever. the face covered in green warts phase was probably considered and abandoned at glitterbest. and i do think michael jackson and courtney love and gene simmons have all done really really interesting things visually in their careers... but talking about or being interested in those things doesn't mean that the music is meaningless either. anyway, i guess i know what you're saying, but i don't buy that bss are absent from "the marketing of cool".

I'm not claiming BSS does one or the other. but even "not giving a toss" is a stylized approach to the whole public address, so in that respect there is no way for a public personae to avoid it. (there is, I would argue, an element of class with regards to how one goes about it.) and yes, it is usually a "crucial element" that sadly influences a lot of people. however, if that image or lack there of, makes or breaks the music... well, can we even call it music anymore?

regardless even without the "artist", the song itself is a public address. are you saying that you can't enjoy a song without there being something else attached to it? can't a song come out of no where, completely below the pop culture radar, divorced of any posturing and yet still speak to you? if I had required of music to come with all that baggage I would never have ever fallen in love with The Clean (or for that matter, any number of artists that were introduced to me as music, not as cultural phenomenon).

given your expressed interests of needing an image to make music interesting, its not surprising that BSS doesn't do much for you. well, if some music is less interesting to you becuase you have a bias towards image and the band refuses to play up to that, then what can I say... your loss.

I agree I don't think BSS are absent from "the market of cool." and you're right about images meaning things. but this is a double edged sword and I guess this is why I have a problem it. the image *can* be powerful, but more often then not its just a ruse. its just more pop-culture clutter, a crumpled magazine cover rolling down the city street.

ps, fuck you

i sat outside for free at their $30 Prospect Park show last night (you can hear/see just fine at a certain angle) and it was ridiculous, all the new material is overwrought and awful; to make matters worse, each song was followed by ten minutes of terribly inane stage banter.

this is no longer the band my eight month pregnant gf took me to see at Bowery. this definitely isn't the band the OM staff were rec'ing to anyone and everyone a few albums back.

so what happened?

wait wait wait. BSS had video that played on MTV. and if not as image oriented as top 40 pop it doesn't mean they don't have an ethos to sell, which they do. obviously another victim of hipster fad-dom, they were a couple cycles between clap yr hands and flashmobs and who talks about that stuff now?

that said, the music was never great and apparently it's getting worse.

If you were raised by wolves in the Andes (Ed: are there wolves in the Andes?) then maybe. Otherwise, no.

even "not giving a toss" is a stylized approach to the whole public address,

ding ding ding!! Look, I have no idea what Broken Social Scene's "scene" is, or even exactly who their fans are. I can make a guess - "indie kids". People who like Built to Spill and Belle and Sebastian (both bands I really like, by the way). But I've seen Broken Social Scene play live. I didn't like their music and I didn't like their stage banter. Maybe I didn't like their haircuts either, I can't remember. But man if the music isn't enough to get me over a bad haircut or two, how good could it be??

Here's a thread you might be interested in, marbles - Fans and Critics

I DO like Michael Jackson though!!!

from billboard:

Broken Social Scene Taking Time Off After Fall Tour


July 07, 2006, 3:30 PM ET

Jonathan Cohen, N.Y.
Following a November U.S. tour, Canadian indie rock collective Broken Social Scene will take an extended break from the road and the studio, according to principal member Kevin Drew. Although dates are still being finalized, the group is planning to focus on places it hasn't often played, including Florida and other Southeastern states.

"We've become that band that doesn't really rehearse anymore," Drew told Billboard.com yesterday (July 6), prior to Broken Social Scene's performance in Brooklyn, N.Y.'s, Prospect Park. "We just get together and go tour and play live. We've lost a bit of that thing we had at the beginning where we tried to challenge each other a lot more."

"The last few years have been hard," he continued, noting the dramatic uptick in media interest in Canadian rock bands. "Things kept getting bigger and changing. But we've had an incredible, incredible, incredible run. It's something that can't be taken for granted. If we kept going [without a break], we'd be taking it for granted. Next time, we'd be doing college tours for money. That sucks the music out of you. Next thing you know, you're trying to get teenagers to buy your albums."

During the time off, there will be plenty of music forthcoming from group members, including new albums from Andrew Whiteman's Apostle Of Hustle, Feist and Dave Newfeld. Of the latter, Drew reported, "I'm not sure what he's going to call himself, but he has a crazy, hip-hop psychedelic folk album going now."

Feist's album will feature several BSS members ("I'm not too sure who has ended up where," Drew admitted) as well as contributions from Mocky and Jamie Lidell.

Drew is also messing around with songs he's recorded over the past two years with BSS contributors Ohad Benchetrit and Charles Spearin, but he's unsure what form the material may take. "Sometimes it sounds like a young man's U2," he said with a laugh. "Right now, it's a pretty stereotypical recording that needs to get away from me. I might throw it out there to see if some people want to beat it up a bit."

Last month, BSS teamed with J Mascis for a charity show in Toronto, during which the artists rocked through a set of Dinosaur Jr songs together. Drew is hoping the parties can get together for future charity dates when their schedules permit.

"It was some of the most fun I've ever had live," Drew said. "I mean, I used to play a canoe paddle to Dinosaur Jr. before I played guitar. That night on stage, I looked around and we were singing 'Get Me.' It was like, you know what? This is it. I'm turning 30 and I've achieved everything I've ever wanted to do in indie rock."

yeah! that's what I've been saying! but now consider this... what if they had good haircuts? does that have any effect on you appreciating their music? why do you even care what haircuts they have? what do haircuts have to do with enjoying music? what makes a good haircut vs a bad haircut? what kind of haircuts are best for appreciating... say, classic rock? why are haircuts even being considered at all?

can't a song come out of no where

If you were raised by wolves in the Andes (Ed: are there wolves in the Andes?) then maybe. Otherwise, no.

care to explain what you mean by this? the question isn't whether the song is completely original and uncomparable to anything you ever heard before. the question is can you appreciate a song without knowing anything about the artist?

Anyone heard the new BSS Presents...Kevin Drew etc. etc. thing?

Yeah is there no thread for Spirit If...? I just got it this weekend and I like, but then I am a pretty big fan of BSS. Backed Out On The..., TBTF, F--ked Up Kid and especially Lucky Ones are the highlights at this stage.

Agreed. Spirit If... is a really nice record, but I'm also a really big Broken Social Scene fan, so maybe that helps. I love that Lucky Ones song. This might end up in my end of year list.

So, that title.

Also after all the hoohah over the MGMT cover, this one is uglier:

http://www.brokensocialscene.ca/images/cover.jpg

Awful cover, but I'm digging the advance track.

Didn't see this thread earlier. But this now exists: Broken Social Scene - Forgiveness Rock Record