Motown/Stax

With most of the best Motown acts (Four Tops, Temptations, Supremes, Miracles), your best bet is the "Anthology" triple-LP/double-CD sets issued for each band. They avoid a lot of the throwaway/filler tracks that are on the original Motown LPs, and just hit you with one smash after another. But any Temptations album with David Ruffin (particularly "I Wish It Would Rain" and "With A Lot O'Soul") is worthwhile. I also highly recommend the "Tempations One By One: The Best of The Solo Years" double CD for some primo Ruffin solo tracks as well as the morbidly beautiful "Feel Like Giving Up", recorded by ex-Temptation Paul Williams just prior to his suicide.

Make sure you get hold of "Seven Rooms Of Gloom" by the Four Tops...what a corker of a tune!

I never liked the Stax stuff much so I'll leave that to someone else to recommend.

"You're all I need", "Ain't no mountain high enough" and "Ain't nothing like the real thing" = perfection.

Stax - get "The Stax Story" another 4 disc set that hits the highpoints. Once you're hooked you can move on to 9 disc "Stax Singles 59-68" then the again 9 disc "Stax Singles 68-71"

You almost need a separate S&D for each of the major Motown and Stax artists. And don't stop there - Atlantic and dozens of smaller labels need looking at too.

But I ain't got time now as I'm going home. Happy Christmas, music lovers.

Stax documentary on PBS tv in the US right now.

and it's sooooo fucking good.

I hope they rerun it. Maybe I'll have to wait until pledge week.

man. I just want to see an hour of that Booker T. & MG's London '68 footage.

the footage of booker t. and the mgs doing "time is tight" is from an awesome ccr live concert thing i have a dvd-r of, live in oakland in january 1970. there's one part where they all jam in cosmo's factory, it's so fuckin' rad.

i posted this on the shark thread:

that stax thing was so beautiful. i watched it at work (don't tell). i almost cried. course they almost ruin the whole glorious thing by ending with fucking bono! *sigh*

i could watch those people talk forever. what a beautiful bunch. that auction footage!

having read "soulsville, u.s.a.," seems like the filmmakers did a good job of covering everything in detail, not shying away from the fraud stuff or the violence, etc., etc.

that rufus thomas malt liquor ad was out of control!

<a href=http://youtube.com/watch?v=nT-oc8aHxWQ>;ain't i clean</a>?

dammit.

ain't i clean?

yeah this was pretty great. I realize they had to pack as much as they could into 2 hrs, but it kind of felt like they zipped over a lot of pretty important, unit-moving artists.

otoh, this very much otm: the filmmakers did a good job of covering everything in detail, not shying away from the fraud stuff or the violence

when people talk about top 5 shows they'd give anything to go back and see, I'm thinking the '67 European tour would top my list.

Is there a new Stax doc or is it the same one they used to show on Bravo all the time back in the day?

this was brand new.

I love the fact that it focuses on the story of the label as *a business* .. the rise & fall, etc. .. without getting too tabloidy but also just sort of telling the truth about the travails of a "small" business.

instead of just, like, endless artist profiles or whatever.

true, true. (I do think a mention of Al Jackson's unsolved murder couldn't have hurt)

k, thx to ilm i saw the last 15 mins, but when when when can i see a rebroadcast?

check your PBS affiliate. They're showing it again 12 am here.

it's really just the story of a zillion businesses. overextending, getting too big too fast, questionable loans, bad partnerships, etc, etc. just seems more tragic than a widget company going under.

not every business has a sleazy deal with clive davis, hehehe.

that would be included under "bad partnerships".

that's exceptionally bad, tho.

Rob Gordon, who wrote "It Came From Memphis," and a Muddy Waters bio among other things (used to write for Option way back when) seemed to be involved with writing and producing this.

Oh, they were advertising the dvd of this at the end.

Maybe PBS will show it again (possibly even before a fundraiser)

it was way better than that ahmet ertegun thing i watched. unbelievable how jazz-free that thing was. plenty of fine kid rock footage though.

according to one of the prod. coordinators it sounds like there will eventually be three DVD's released: one of basically what aired last night, a second with the tons of stuff that had to be cut (at least this is how I took it) and a third mostly comprised of the European tour footage.

This was pretty good.

It made me want to start a T/S "Motown vs. Stax" vs. "Death Row vs. Bad Boy" thread.

plenty of fine kid rock footage though.

n_n

yeah that doc/tribute ended with ahmet saying that kid rock was the next elvis or something and the footage was proof that he hadn't lost his touch.

went to the stax museum this past weekend. it was incredible and moving. i seriously got choked up several times.

i wonder if this pbs doc is the full version of the edited film they start the museum tour with? because it was great.

picked up the 2 disc 50th anniversary set and it's great. and it makes me wonder why i never gave the staple singers a listen before now. so amazing.

was "g. turkington" from top of thread greg? aka neil hamburger?

after watching the advance screener of this doc (only up until the otis crash), my motown-loving son is suddenly in a quandry about which label he loves more. he's working on a new musical about the life of otis redding. (the boy is almost nine years old.)

it's a really great piece of filmmaking, lots of wonderful interviews. booker t. jones never ceased being the greatest guy in the world.

SHOULD I BUY THE COMPLETE STAX/VOLT SINGLES VOL. 1 RIGHT NOW?!
ps i can't afford it

yes you should, i spent my wedding money on it 15 years ago

he's working on a new musical about the life of otis redding. (the boy is almost nine years old.)

o_O

do tell

Motown>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Stax

shut it, geir.

Anyone catch the Stax PBS special last night? I DVR'd it, so no spoilers!

cf upthread

t/s Booker T.-era Stax vs. Hayes-era Stax

love both

Stax DVD is a premium for WBGO pledge week. Which is over in half an hour.

Anyone watching the Stax documentary, about to start on BBC4?

Isaac Hayes: Black Moses.

wow that Jesse Jackson footage...

if yr watching this and you've never seen/heard Wattstax: The Living Word you have some add'l homework to do

Never have, thanks, will check that...

Okay turning into real business and politics talk now. Telling about the political climate of the US in the 70s, but not much music going on now.

lol Bono

What was that sad instrumental Hammon-organy track that played over the section about the label going bust?

No idea sorry...

This has been on before? Duck Dunn really gets into playing that bass!
Al Jackson played the drums like Christian Vander! Liked when one of the Stax employees said that he thought Stax would be around forever "... like the Bank of England or the Rock of Gibraltar", how very British!

The Complete Motown Singles, Vol. 1-11B, 1959-1971, currently costs a total of $1,364 for 65 used CDs ($20.98 each) on Amazon. This is a problem. The MP3s are about $650. I wish there was a better middle ground between those 65 CDs and the skimpy 4 CD set that I have, and MP3s. They really make it difficult for someone who would like to pay for the music, but not go broke.

Kinda makes the Beatles Box seem like a bargain.

Listening to Written in their Soul: the Stax Songwriters Demos and liking it a lot . Am listening on Spotify but should probably buy hard copy as it apparently has really good liner notes and such

I think Dow wrote about it on another thread but I don’t see it

Just noticed this as a side-effect of listening to The Replacements: https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/entertainment/music/2024/05/17/hbo-stax-documentary-memphis-music-jamila-wignot/73708290007/

Listening to Written in their Soul: the Stax Songwriters Demos and liking it a lot . Am listening on Spotify but should probably buy hard copy as it apparently has really good liner notes and such

I think Dow wrote about it on another thread but I don’t see it

― curmudgeon, Saturday, August 19, 2023 2:07 PM

i thank you for this mention and am really liking when a man sings a song intended for a woman singer and vice versa. i understand why these recordings exist in this form and should not be taken literally but that doesn't make not complete and total amusement to hear an obvious man impersonate a woman confronting another woman who is currently involved in affair with her man.

*AN affair blah

anyway the og of "woman to woman" complete with intro is worth it.

Thought this thread bump had to do with the new Stax documentary that premiered on HBO today. I've only watched the first two episodes so far, but I'm really loving it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAjCOWHUGM8

James Redd posted article on Stax doc plus Darin comments reminds me I need to watch it. Re director noting that Stax was not necessarily the ideal biracial utopia that folks hope / hoped for, I feel like that the issues were mentioned in an earlier Stax book or 2. Maybe the Charles Hughes book?

I screened watched the first two episodes today. It's good, but probably plays better if you're a Stax/Soul novice. There's some reductionalism going on, particularly re:the label's relationship with Atlantic, who kind of become villains in the narrative ("they didn't promote our records...they stole our masters"), while negating the facts that Stax *was* very successful under their watch (no mention of Rufus Thomas' string of dance hits) and they completely leave out Wilson Pickett being sent to Stax, instead focusing on Sam & Dave's similar story. It also doesn't sit well with me how they briefly dismiss the other Southern Soul studios (insert footage of Muscle Shoals Sound, Fame Recorders, and Criteria Sound Studio) as copycats instead of fellow travellers.

That said, what is there is good. The second episode is primarily framed by Otis Redding's rise & death-->MLK's assassination, and I learned some things, like the horrific circumstances that instigated the Memphis Garbage Collector's Strike.

Fwiw too, Rob Bowman is a central talking head, and in the credits his book is cited as the central source for the series.

Watching the last episode right now: They acknowledge (and justify!) the signing of Lena Zavroni!

This was ultimately was good, but maybe I've been spoiled by, I dunno, Ken Burns PBS docs or something, because I feel this could have been so much more. They didn't talk to (or even talk about) still-alive performers like William Bell or Eddie Floyd. There's not a lot of industry context aside from the aforementioned "Copycat" charges lobbed at other Southern Soul studio/labels that earn mention (nothing here about Chips Moman/American Sound, Ardent, or Willie Mitchell/Hi Records). I do understand more the reasoning behind the vilification of Atlantic in the earlier episodes because it sets the stage for appearance of the actual supervillains of the film in Ep. 4: CBS Records and Union Planters Bank. CBS (Clive Davis aside) comes off very poorly.

I enjoyed watching it but yeah the film found time to to talk to multiple WattsStax filmmakers and a photographer (interesting and inspiring but more tangentially related) but not to William Bell, Mavis Staples and others

Yeah, I was listening to a Stax playlist on my morning commute today (so, Mission Accomplished filmmakers) and was trying to remember if they talked to Mavis in-person. It was cool they talked to who they did. I particularly enjoyed everyone's WattStax stories. Also kudos to them for limiting the interviewees to people directly involved with Stax (plus Rob Bowman), so no Bono, John Mayer, Anthony DeCurtis etc. rhapsodizing.

They didn't talk to (or even talk about) still-alive performers like William Bell or Eddie Floyd

That's so insulting. Stax didn't have that many "star" performers in their heyday - compared to Motown, they had a relatively lean roster - and those two came up with a bunch of their greatest, most enduring records. Maybe they declined or they were too ill to be interviewed, but they should have at least talked about them.

*but the filmmakers should have at least talked about them.

Yep. Now the interviews they did have with Booker T, David Porter, Carla Thomas and others were informative, inspiring, and often touching. Whenever I heard them discussing Jim Crow segregation and the racism of the times it made me think even more how hateful and horrible a d ridiculous all that current right wing whining about the 1619 project and dei is, and it also reminded me further of the genius of these musicians in being able to create under such a system.

"Play It, Steve!"

Happy 81st to Booker T:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbBcXvKvB08

(oh! and RIP Steve Cropper; hadn't seen that yet)

RIP

It's not Booker T's birthday.

Yeah, I had seen that misstated and looked it up after posting (wrong order). Sorry 'bout that.

I'm in a weird mood and this is also reminding me of the deaths of Al Jackson Jr and of Booker T. Jones's ex-wife Priscilla Coolidge, but probably I shouldn't go there.

If I had to choose one “desert island disc” and box sets were permitted, a decent Stax anthology might very well be the thing. So much greatness. Thanks Steve for everything.

fate must be real, because a couple weeks back something prompted me to play some of the posthumously released otis redding records. it seems weird to say, but he kind of feels underrated as a guitarist in hindsight. how many undisputably classic records is his name on? rest in peace.

the world is dimmed, what talent. rip.

Plenty of people rate him, but yeah, he's usually not showing up near the top of one of those long listicles of World's Greatest Guitarists Evah.

He's just such a part of the foundation of all modern music. It's like Earl Palmer, one of the all time greats who played on many of the all time greats, but not exactly a household name. Anyway, Cropper was an incredible guitarist, so much so that it's almost easy to overlook his co-writing credits. "In the Midnight Hour," "Knock on Wood," "Dock of the Bay." "Raise Your Hand" ... I never noticed, be he actually gets a shoutout on "Soul Man"!

He made it pretty long for a guy that probably ate a lot of fried chicken.

a great sound on so many great records, RIP

That live clip above is so great. I love the couple of flashes of CCR watching delighted from the wings. And I love the way all the MG's look at each other, just so much joy at what they're able to do together. What a band.

PSA: the complete Stax/Volt singles are on Bandcamp as "pay what you want" downloads!

oh wait, only some are pay-what-you-want, the rest are $9

or $7

was listening to some of the Stax/Volt singles comps last night after I heard the news — truly some incredible music. Even the stuff that didn't become huge hits, you hear it and think: "Why wasn't this a huge hit?"

It's interesting, musicians tuned into Cropper pretty early on — I know Sterling Morrison talked about him as a model for his style, Keith Richards maybe too?

Rolling Stones guitarist Keith Richards, asked once about Cropper, said simply: "Perfect, man."

^^^ quoted in several obits, tho I don't know the original source. otm obviously.

Sterling Morrison: The guitar players I like are Steve Cropper and people like that, very minimal. A few well chosen notes. A good guitar riff I always thought was worth more than a good guitar solo.

Even the stuff that didn't become huge hits, you hear it and think: "Why wasn't this a huge hit?"

Or why wasn’t it even released? Stax put out compilations of Mable John and Ruby Johnson back in the 90s that contained mostly unreleased tracks and they’re both so good.

Re influence/peer veneration - Pete Townshend spoke glowingly about the MGs in a 1968 Rolling Stone IV - “Here he’s been, Steve Cropper, hiding from you, the most incredible guitarist in history”

I read this as a teen and it was the first time I encountered the idea of greatness based in economy and restraint rather than excess and peacock virtuosity (specifically re guitar but also perhaps the first time I considered that notion in relation to any form of art making)

To reiterate what others have said: back in the day the general public didn't know who the studio cats were– in Detroit, LA, Memphis or Muscle Shoals– but musicians certainly did. Nowadays of course there's a lot more recognition, at least in certain circles.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/03/arts/music/steve-cropper-dead.html?unlocked_article_code=1.6U8.hBED.ogo3BBz2Zhsh&smid=em-share

Bill Friskics-Warren obit for Steve Cropper plus video and pics