da DeRogatis thread

I find DeRotGut amusing, in a clown-ish sorta way. He's no worse than some people that post here, even.

I keep thinking with both him and Kot that there's something deeper there, but this is a quixotic quest I know.

Gee, Jim, what tipped you off? Making the Video, American Idol, Making the Band, Before They Were Stars, etc., etc.? People became bored of the string-pulling behind pop musicians before Jim sorted out that a) this wasn't breaking news and b) nobody cares anyway.

I guess 'passion' (and his brave stand against hootie) are all he has going for him, unless you want to read enthusiasm for stoner rock and psychedlic rock and little else. I guess he's better than j-h kim. maybe.

he looks like he writes though.

But, what is it that allows Jim to hold down a full-time job at a major newspaper writing about rock for a living? Is it the self-evident flaming passion he has for the most tired of rock critic tropes?

Seriously, has our intelligence doomed us to relative irrelevance? Should we all have quit when we discovered indie rock in high school?

You have to realize that he writes for the Sun-Times, i.e. the paper that gives fucking RICH ROEPER a daily platform for his inane nonsense.

Roeper makes DeRotGut look like a fucking brain surgeon. Okay, a fat brain surgeon, but still.

Aside from the goatee. I presume that's by choice.

http://www.chicagomag.com/pressbox/pressbox_story.htm

"We were excluded because we were young and threatening. At the ripe old age of 25, they didn't want to hear what a 22-year-old or a 20-year-old thought about Husker Du."

It's horseshit because there WERE 22-year-olds writing about Husker Du (or bands of Husker Du's ilk) at the time, in the very publications Derogatis mentions. (The ones that he says "excluded" him.) And it's horseshit because Jim's criticism has NEVER been especially threatening (or especially good, for that matter.) Unless you think there's something threatening about finding reasons not to like Third Eye Blind or Hootie and the Blowfish, anyway. (Well, I suppose Hootie and Third Eye Blind fans might be threatened by him. But big deal, you know?)

"The Village Voice has this kind of pretentious vision of what they are . . . the last word in hipness in American underground music, and they don't give a fuck about New York, to the point where, they didn't care about the Strokes, then the Strokes happened, then they don't cover the Strokes because now the Strokes are too big for them. So [Village Voice] readers never got [to read about the Strokes] at all."


Between the Regulars column, SOTC, listings, features, and all the locals who get covered in the section proper, I really don't understand how anybody could believe the Voice ignores the rock-and-otherwise scene in New York (even if local-scene boosterism IS pretty pointless, per se'.) But the REAL horseshit above, though is the stuff about the Strokes, whose first import EP was reviewed both in Christgau's consumer guide and (while they were touring the UK) given a 600-word sidebar by Christina Rees in the section itself, and whose album was the subject of a lead review by Nick Catucci when it came out. So why Jim thinks Voice readers never got to read about the band is beyond me. (And yeah, I'm not really Jeri Curlan. Who cares?)

Jim was also in Speed The Plough, a Trypes/Feelies offshoot who made some beautiful records in the '80s. For that alone, he gets a pass.

try this one instead (i hope):

http://www.chicagomag.com/pressbox/112802pressbox.htm

Last fall, I had occasion to send an e-mail to Chicago Sun-Times rock critic Jim DeRogatis that said, in part: “Frankly, movie critics, book reviewers, etc. are, well, maybe not a dime a dozen, but in abundance. Really good rock critics are so rare, more than they should be considering how passionate so many people feel about music.

Maybe that’s because being a rock critic is even more complex than being, say, a movie critic. It takes more original thinking, there’s less outside guidance, and it’s harder to describe why something is good or bad. Why isn’t there more, better rock criticism?”

That's so fucking ridiculous, it's not even funny!

Chamberlain: I don’t have a writing background at all. My degree is in Russian and Slavic literature . . . .I [started] as receptionist at Newcity.

Last I checked, Dave-y, you had to have some sort of "writing background" to major in literature. This guy is HANDS-DOWN the WORST crit in Chicago. He once referred to John Fahey in print as "Joshua Fahey" or "Matthew Fahey" or some such nonsense. Some writers need editors because of clarity and content, he needs one to wipe his ass.

Kot: Three major musical movements started in Chicago. Three major movements that changed the course of music history, and you rarely heard about it here. Nobody made a big deal about it. I’m talking about house music, I’m talking about industrial music, and I’m talking about that whole noise rock thing that Big Black was doing, [Steve] Albini and people like that. Those movements are still very much alive today, and have sort of been co-opted by other people who figured out how to make the money, but the creativity was here in Chicago. And then there’s blues and jazz. This town is incredible, but it doesn’t make a big deal about itself. And that’s a really appealing combination.

"And then there's blues and jazz?" Yeah, so when it's black people, it only warrants barely a sentence? What a fucking idiot.

DeRotGut: In Chicago, we go to a big show at Metro and there’s a table for Peter, me, Greg, and Dave. And the other 996 people who paid to get in, paid to get in! And what’s more, they know who we are, and on the way in they’re gonna stop us and say, “Peter, what a fucking piece of shit column you wrote, man! Can’t you do better than that? I want your job!” I got it twice on the way in here.

He's smoking crack if he thinks that they're the only industry flacks at shows. I used to see lots of press, p.r., record company, girlfriends, hanger-ons (like myself), lucky kids and other people at Metro shows that didn't pay.

Regardless, the fact that nobody made "a big deal" about those things has a lot to do with why Chicago sucks (although it sucked much, much harder in the 80s).

Why must anyone promoting Chicago put down New York by way of contrast? And what is wrong with a modicum of self-promotion? (BTW, numerous local bands have of course made very big deals of themselves, or rather the labels have done it for them. Latest example, OKGo.) There is naturally much to love and hate in both cities. New York can be a wonderful place, save for the rents. That seems self-evident to me.

Anyways, he must be missing all the tourist traps that are the blues clubs, and how every Chicago tourist brochure boasts Muddy Waters and Buddy Guy and Chuck Berry. Or every pizza ad that opens with a few bars from "Sweet Home Chicago."

That said, people could stand to know more about Lester Melrose and the '30s/'40s Bluebird blues scene; Big Bill Broonzy, Memphis Minnie, and so forth. I suppose it seems like ancient history to so many people now. http://www.doctorjazz.freeserve.co.uk/portlater.html

OK Go suck donkey ballz.

For one thing, I wouldn't be so sure that lots of fans of the Dave Matthews Band (who are basically an art-rock band, after all -- more or less the missing like between Peter Gabriel and the Dismemberment Plan) don't consider Dave's music "art." Second, I wouldn't be so certain that fans of Dave Matthews (whose music Derogatis way-too-predictably compares to McDonald's) are any more set in their ways, or any less open to criticism of their hero, than fans of, say, Nirvana or Sleater-Kinney or Tori Amos or Bright Eyes or D'Angelo or Tool or Lauryn Hill or Ani Difranco or Flaming Lips or Wilco (all of whose music has also been surpassed by precedents) or whoever.

Alright, I'll shut up now.

i don't quite get the level of hate derogatis inspires. i mean, he's a terrible writer, not an original idea in his head, he's smug, self-satisfied, and bloated (writing wise, people!). but you can say that about a lot of critics. also, he doesn't seem all that ubiquitous, although keep in mind i don't read any of the major rock/pop mags or most weeklies. is it just a case of "this horrible fucker is in my paper every week"? (cf. my hatred for joey sweeney. and the seattle weekly and the stranger, fucking abominations both.)

(p.s. stencil i picked up that kevin drumm disc on yr recommendation on another thread. nice.)

That said, 'ere's Jim vs. the Hootie Machine: http://www.furious.com/perfect/hootie.html

Yeah, I know. Just considering the long, long history of blues and jazz in Chicago, and the subsequent contributions that Chicagoans have made to both forms, I found it odd he only gives them a token mention.

(which drumm? the mego one? he's got a new one coming out on hanson in january.)

What sort of wiggle can we imagine Jim D.R. does at Wire shows?

Okay, I'll stop with the fat jokes now.

What is a "white-person wiggle"? Are blacks and other nonwhites incapable of wiggling? Is the wiggle of an African-American inherently different from that of a Caucasian?

http://www.jimdero.com/Vortis/Vortis1.htm

Highlights: "Maybe someone starts out listening to the Prodigy's hit single "Firestarter" and ends up searching out the more challenging Aphex Twin, Orb, or Headrillaz"; "bassist Leeroy Thornhill"; "Maxim Reality's frequently repeated boast, 'Change my pitch up/Smack my bitch up'"; "while it might not have struck you before, "Firestarter" is a song about an arsonist who really loves his work."

It's been a long time since I kissed you
It always used to, feel so good
And if you know, how much I missed you
You'd forgive me, if you could
And now that we have, found each other
Can't we give it, one more try (one more try)
One more try
I didn't know how much, I loved you
One more try
Let me put my, arms around you
Living all these lonely nights without you
Oh baby can whe give it, one more try
And after all that, we have been through
Won't you let me, tell you why...
And now that we have, found each other,
Can't we give it, one more try (one more try)
One more try
I didn't know how much, I loved you
One more try
Let me put my, arms around you
Living all these lonely nights without you
Oh baby can we give it, one more try

Oh girl, you know I love you
I just want you to know, my love I'll always treasure
So please, just don't let me go...

I rest serene knowing that in Mr. DeRogatis's case even a blind monkey sometimes finds a banana.

The follow-up:
Peter followed his doctors’ advice for a week, and returned to let them know how he feels. He admitted that he enjoyed most of their choices. He has never been a Belle and Sebastian fan, and probably won’t become one any time soon, but he understands why Jim recommended the band. And he told Greg that he will continue to dig deeper into the music of The Decemberists and the New Pornographers. But the clear cure here was Kanye West. Peter was absolutely floored by how much he loved Late Registration. He definitely now understands what all the fuss is about. Therefore, by turning their patient on to even one new artist, the doctors can consider their medical experiment a success. They’ve got one patient in recovery and look forward to healing some more. So, if you or anyone you needs to consult with the rock doctors, please email Sound Opinions H.Q, and tell us where it hurts.
http://soundopinions.com/shownotes/072206/shownotes.html

'i recommend taking two aspirin.'

Anyway, I stand by the article. Ned and DeRo sitting in a tree, etc.

EW! Etc.

oh man, they just don't let that metaphor die.

So has anybody seen Jim's top ten? I'm curious.

They had high points.

all i know of jim are his amazon snippets, which i usually disagree with, and that carnival of light review.

plus, that's the only official 2006 list I've seen which features The Secret Machines... ;-)

i take it back. DIE

What's wrong with listing Veruca Salt? (They were better than Ride.)

I don't know, I don't remember reading too many rave reviews of the new Ministry album (though that choice could be put down to vestigial Chicago loyalty, even if Al does live in Texas now).

http://idolator.com/355487/rock-critics-escape-from-behind-keyboards-onto-late-night-tv-wga-strike-ends

May 30 2008 4:11 PM EDT

R. Kelly Trial: Reporter Jim DeRogatis Ordered To Testify About Sex Tape

Defense wants to prove Chicago Sun-Times writer tampered with or created evidence.
By Jennifer Vineyard

CHICAGO — Though he tried to fight it, Chicago Sun-Times reporter Jim DeRogatis will be forced to testify in R. Kelly's child-pornography trial, Judge Vincent Gaughan ruled when he issued a subpoena for the reporter on Friday (May 30). The defense, however, will not be allowed to ask DeRogatis about his sources.

In February 2002, DeRogatis (along with fellow Sun-Times reporter Abdon Pallasch) broke the story about the existence of the alleged Kelly sex tape, a copy of which he received from an anonymous source and later turned in to the police. Defense attorney Marc Martin argued that since the tape had been in DeRogatis' "sole and exclusive possession," they needed the reporter's testimony to establish chain of custody. But more than that, he argued, the defense needed to establish whether DeRogatis tampered with or even created the evidence as part of his "extreme bias" against Kelly.

"Mr. Kelly has a constitutional right to show that this person has a bias, a bias so strong that it helped a reporter violate the law," Martin said.

"Did a reporter morph [the sex tape]?" Sun-Times lawyer Damon Dunn countered. "First you'd have to show that the tape was in fact morphed. And then you'd have to show that the technology necessary to do that was available to the reporter. And then you'd have to show that the reporter superimposed the images and got the contemporaneous soundtrack from radio broadcasts made years prior for this purpose. And then you'd have to show that this reporter distributed this videotape to other witnesses."

Regardless, Dunn added, "Whether or not DeRogatis has a bias against pedophiles is of no importance to this case," since it is not a defamation case.

Martin also claimed that in allegedly making a copy of the tape and showing it to witness Stephanie "Sparkle" Edwards in February 2002, DeRogatis committed a felony: possession of child pornography (which would seem to contradict the defense's claim that the tape does not constitute child pornography). If a crime were committed, Dunn countered, prosecution of that crime should come from the state, not the defense.

"What does this have to do with chain of custody?" Dunn asked rhetorically. "Nothing."

Whether DeRogatis possessed a copy in February 2002 or not, he could not be charged, since the statute of limitations would have passed. That also means the reporter could not rely upon Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination.

"The law is clear," Martin said. "The Fifth Amendment does not apply."

Gaughan said the defense could seek DeRogatis' testimony, within limits. The defense would not be permitted to ask him about how the tape was placed in his mailbox, or by whom. The defense would also have to narrow its question about whether DeRogatis possessed a copy of the tape other than the one he gave the police to just whether he had a copy, period. Any notes or memos made prior to and including February 1, 2002, would not be allowed, since that could put the source in jeopardy, but any materials relating to Sparkle would be allowed, "since she's not the source," Gaughan said.

Martin agreed that the defense would not seek DeRogatis' source, "unless of course DeRogatis took the position that he lied in his articles and lied to the police and there is a known source."

While the state and the defense were in the judge's chambers discussing a separate matter, a fan approached Kelly sitting alone at the defense table and tried to give the singer a couple of CDs. Introducing himself as "a lawyer and a musician," Mike Roman attempted to give the singer two albums for what he described as a Santana-like band. With an apologetic look on his face, Kelly refused to accept the CDs, telling Roman that there was a court decorum order and he wasn't even allowed to talk to him. Bailiffs escorted Roman out of the courthouse when they realized he was talking to the defendant.

Find a review of the major players in the R. Kelly trial here. For full coverage of the R. Kelly case, see the R. Kelly Reports and check out this complete timeline of the events leading up to the trial.

yah bizarre

Regardless, Dunn added, "Whether or not DeRogatis has a bias against pedophiles is of no importance to this case," since it is not a defamation case.

THIS ^^^^^

*insert fat joke*

*insert rapist joke*

*don't forget the "kenan is a pedo" joke*

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=254389793362&ref=mf

Ick.

Jim DeRogatis has a problem with new media:

http://bit.ly/d6li28

I don't really need to read another article about DeRo, so that link probably explains this, but isn't "new media" how he makes most of his money these days?

Sounds like he's just mad at Whiney and wants some of that action.

A punk rocker to the core, DeRogatis strongly encourages a little heckling during the lecture.

thanks!

Will he get made if you hock a loogie on him?

yes, if you spit on him he goes gangsta

A punk rocker to the core, DeRogatis strongly encourages Third Eye Blind lead singer Stephen Jenkins to kiss him wetly behind the ear