Dude, this music is so BORING.

It's a good way of expressing contempt for music, especially music which seems to be trying to do what pop generally does i.e. excite and stimulate.

It's more a way of expressing absolute withering subjectivity, I think.

If I was editing a music magazine which people were paying for, I wouldn't stand for it. But I'm not.

Tom, don't worry--I haven't heard it NEARLY as much on this board as I have (and do, continually) in "real life."

A lot of times when I hear it used, it's more like: "This is boring, and I can't IMAGINE how you'd think otherwise, you absolute dullard." But I agree that it actually does express subjectivity, even if that's not what the speaker intends it to express.

I have a friend who inevitably calls anything slow and vocal- less "boring," and it irks me more than it troubles my mind. I wish he would think a little bit more about why he doesn't like what he's hearing (and this complaint extends to most instances in which someone uses--or overuses--the word).

Erik Satie said somewhere (but I can't find where and I want to) that "Boredom is mysterious and profound" — which either meant all the evasions some of you are talking about, or else (in ref. perhaps to his own not ALWAYS that exciting music) "I rock, you suck"

Interesting point, Mark... I think the boredom Satie mentions is different from the boredom that gets brought up when talking about music, though. When I'm sitting around, still, with nothing to do at all, feeling bored out of my mind, I guess it is sort of mysterious. But can music ever be that boring? I think that's what I'm trying to ask. And I can already tell I'm going to get some witty responses on that one. :-)

Well, sometimes whatever music a person is raving about is boring! I mean, what else is there to say to someone who's going apeshit over, to pick 3 names totally at random, Rage Against the Machine, Creed or Elliott Smith?

Well, there are other things one could say to such a schmuck, but I'm assuming that this hypothetical conversation is happening in a social setting where vomiting or cutting loose with a stream of profanity that would make a drunken sailor blush wouldn't be appropriate :-p

as ilm's unofficial Occasionally-Reluctant Trip-Hop Apologist, i've had to deal with this dreadful epithet far too many times. strangely enough these same people not only endure but often ENDORSE music from the godspeed you droney no-wave mogwai sonic youth emperor! school (i know i'm generalising with the band-names here, but you get the point. vaguely abstract BORING drone-rock) and yet cry out if any form of hiphop or dance music doesn't deliver the Glam and Glitter and Violence and Innovatively-Twitchy-yet-Exhilarating Rhythms and dare try and establish an actual MOOD or tread below the 65 bpm mark. it's like when annoying 80s hardcore punk types would condemn anything pop/ acoustic/'classic'/slow/whatever as being not as exciting as their wretchedly shouty two-minute songs. i have a lengthy theory that explains why this occurs with guitar- oriented fickle hiphop fans, but i won't subject you all to that right now. needless to say, i blame rockism.

Well, to name three items mentioned elsewhere with loving respect, I've always been bored by A Love Supreme, Astral Weeks and everything Frank Zappa ever had anything to do with except Valley Girl and a bit of guitar stuff on Apostrophe which sometimes reminds me of Sonic Youth except he then starts singing (FZ = more boring singer than ALL THREE SONIC YOUTH SINGERS PUT TOGETHER: to me, that is).

Now it's true that at times I've shut superdreary people up with "It's b****g" — but it IS a crappy and cowardly way to jump away from something that others genuinely like and get much from. And actually, I think there really IS something "mysterious and profound" about the absolute unbridgeability of this gap. Because I KNOW I will never "get" any of the three, and I KNOW it's not a lack in me (any more than it's a lack in others that causes them to like 'em).

(Even A bloody Love Supreme...)

I've used it, but yeah, it's a cop-out. Essentially, it's subjective, and all it really means is "this music does not engage me, either positively or negatively". For example, I thought the new Weezer was boring when I first heard it, because I hadn't listened to it enough to let it sink in. Now the balance is tilted to the positive for the album. Often, I think "boring" is just a term bandied about by someone who hasn't done their homework before making a value judgement.

I think Tortiose is boring but I still l ike them.

It really is far too generaly to be useful in communication. But it is an honest way to describe my reaction to any music I don't like. If I'm not bored, I'm probably digging it.

The exact opposite of boring is of course "interesting." Again, not descriptive, not good for communicating, but feels right internally.

But sometimes it is boring. What else are you supposed to say about something like Blues Traveller?

> What else are you supposed to say about something like Blues Traveller?

Uh, that John Popper's fat?

Dude, he's not even fat anymore. I mean, have you seen him?

Ethan, no offense, but MOGWAI ARE NOT DRONE ROCK. Find me a drone longer than, oh, three seconds on a Mogwai record and I'll be a monkey's uncle. And I do like drone rock. Why, I want to know, is drone rock "boring"? Is it because "there's nothing going on"? What the heck does THAT mean?

Plus, you can see how non-descriptive the term is; Ethan applies it to "drone rock," Mark S. applies it to Coltrane and Zappa, and Ally applies it to Blues Traveler. Try this: think about times when you are truly bored--I mean, bored out of your mind. Then think about what it feels like to listen to the music you'd call "boring" in a conversation. I think you'll find that the feelings are quite different, tangibly different.

My main gripe is when critics use it (hence the air of "objectivity" I mentioned earlier), or when people use it to attack certain music and never go deeper with their explanations. Some of the most valuable thinking I've done about music has resulted from reflecting on my initial unfavorable reaction to a given song/album/artist. Not to say it has to be that way for everyone, but it does seem rather lazy to just tag something as "boring" and move on, so to speak.

Does anyone know anything about a BPM/heartrate/likelihood of finding music boring correlation?

The problem with a lot of trip-hop is not that it aspires to establish a mood but the unity of mood that it then seems to establish. But as I said to Josh, a lot of my personal dislike of 'trip-hop' is that I'm most aware of it in its - to me - native habitat, the awful London bar.

Anything that doesn't work except as an example of its genre is boring.

So what gets played in the good London bar, then?

On the contrary, things which work only as examples of their genre are in fact not-at-all boring. Except when that genre is trip-hop. :-)

Indifference is quite different from a hostile negative response. But often I find that "boring" means "I refuse to engage with the landscape on which this music operates." Now, then there's something to explore, not paper over with a handy word. Because ultimately you then ask yourself why you refuse, and then learn something about your own tastes, and can then not just label something as boring, but as articulating a set of issues and conflicts which in no way concern you.

Not to mention which, boring can also mean "already mastered" as in -- I engaged this music, I explored it, and now it has nothing further to say to me.

There's nothing wrong with establishing a mood; it's the fact the mood is one of *boredom*. Seriously though, I think Tom's right as far as trip hop is concerned - too much of it is happy to toe the line moodwise, which tends to affect the value of what was originally a good idea. I've been listening to the new DJ Cam album for review purposes, and find it interesting that the moment he branches away from trip-hop into jungle, dub, house, r&b etc. he introduces new emotional palettes, whereas the trip hop tracks are all terribly consistent. And consistency often = boring.

That says, this all applies to GYBE! too.

I saw Tortoise live and GOOD LORD they were boring.

Can something be inappropriately boring for live performance but haunting and urgent coming out of small black felt-covered boxes next to your sofa?

To me, "boring" is mostly either (a) I've heard this type of thing before and the latest version ain't better or different; or (b) it doesn't strike my fancy or just flat out sucks. Frankly, Ally has it right -- what can you say to someone who really, really thinks that something like Blues Traveller or the Dave Matthews Band is "interesting"?

Maybe it's because I have a very definite non-evangelistic (or even elitist) streak -- I'm used to people thinking that a lot of music I like is "weird" or "boring" or whatever, I figure that people will either "get it" or they won't and in any event I'm not going to waste my time (and theirs) trying to sell them on something they probably won't like nor will they be able to convince me that Blues Traveller or the Dave Matthews Band is worth a moment of my time to consider. Let someone else can do the evangelizing.

Anyway, there definitely seems to be some overlap between this thread and the old "'Aren't Bruce Hornsby and the Range just magical?'" thread.

It's music that requires some engagement on the part of the listener: empathy, closure, or at the other extreme, needs to be ignored for effect. The most engrossing music can be boring, because it doesn't tell me how to think or feel, it just lets me respond to suggestions, engages me in a way that 'pop' music doesn't (most of the action goes on in my head, not on the record.) Boredom, in my opinion, is similar to fascination, both sides of the same coin, exclusive states where our thoughts are passive; the definition depends on whether you want to be there or not. Like being in front of a TV, I'm bored and fascinated at the same time, not watching anything in particular, I'm watching TV.

Eno's ambient music is boring, nothing dramatic happens, but the effect is indirect. But it evokes a sensation of stillness and peace, of being present elsewhere, or even silence. Brian Ferry had something interesting to say about Eno - 'He's great at what he does, but I wouldn't call it music' Which invites the question is music that is boring, yet successful at what it sets out to accomplish, music at all? What is it then, Art?

To answer K-reg's question: I'd say, surely this "discreet music" is still music. The same way as experimental cinema, Warhol's Empire State Building for example, is still cinema despite total lack of narrative & other cinematic conventions; still shares the same medium. Good that you brought up Eno's ambient music where the deliberate discreetness of music becomes intriguing (for some, at least), resulting in boring = not boring...

Good to knwo becasue I was thinking of seeing tortiose here last week but changed my mind. I had a poor idea of what it would be like, and apparently I was right. I wonder what The BOredoms would think of this thread.

Clarke - it may be hard to find drones proper on a Mogwai record but I think they definitely have the drone sensibility.

Sterling - sounds like you are saying, alternatively, that 'boring' means 'I don't want to engage this music on its own terms.' Tom always seems to try to spank me when I say stuff about 'its own terms'. Silly Tom.

1) i stated in my post that i was generalising with the bands i named, but apparently i was close ENOUGH. mogwai are always fun to blame anyway.

2) i like drone-rock, it just seems to be the 'rock' equivalent of 'boring' trip-hop and yet strangely gets more respect for some reason. i mean, they sound pleasantly alike to me. only i like 'trip-hop' better, you know.

Well, they both have a particular reputation for being for drug users. (I realize this theory has all kinds of problems. I didn't say I believed it.)

i just saw both of the staind music videos that are playing on mtv at 4:35 am and his voice is boring. i could easily fall asleep to those songs..btw i find snoop dogg's tha eastsidaz pretty boring as well.

Usually when I hear music described as boring it's by my friends listening to something that they're never going to like. Leftism, Mogwai, Tortoise, whatever else, they think it's boring. I dunno, I think it's a bit of a cop out. I'd say bands like U2 or Travis or the Stereophonics are boring, I mean "Have A Nice Day" is just boring. Theres no other word for it. Same goes for Sing by Travis, or Beautiful Day by U2. They don't sound unusual or different, they don't even sound like a nice twist on something tried and tested.

using the word "boring" is (perhaps unwittingly for the perpetrator) elevating yourself to some imaginary level of snobbery where nothing is exciting for you because you are so difficult to please / widely experienced / ever so discerning etc etc etc. hence i love to use it although i am very easily entertained (christina aguilera's trousers, for instance) and rarely find reason to do so.

As my mother always told me when I'd complain about being bored:

"Dear, your aren't bored, you just aren't creative enough to think of something you'd like to do."

"boring is as boring does"

People who say they are bored lack "inner resources", according to John Berryman's mother.

Well, I use boring to describe genres like rap - repetitive, no atmosphere, no changes. Something's gotta HAPPEN in the music. My friends seem to use "boring" synonymously with "progressive".

Like durr!! Have you never heard Luniz' "Operation Stankola"? Bitches get pearl necklaces in gangbangs and niggaz get knived, all to the sound of nursery rhyme verses. How can you say that nothing happens in rap music? It is all of life and everything between!

I conclude now I have no inner resources, for I am heavy bored with statements like Anna's.

There are things going on and changing in rap songs, Anna, just not the things you're looking for.

Anna's friends obviously heavily into the Strokes.

Boring = I do not find this music stimulating to listen to.

...with all subjectivity drives at warp speed.

As my mother always told me when I'd complain about being bored: "Dear, your aren't bored, you just aren't creative enough to think of something you'd like to do."

Heh, my mum used to say "Well, you can tidy your room/help me clean the house/do the dishes then".
Guess it taught me not to complain about being bored. I try not to get bored because of that and to be patient with things, which is definitely reflected in music. But you could attribute boredom with any genre:

Chart Pop: Because it's so manufactured and bland
Drum'n'Bass: Because it's repetitive and unrelenting
Hip-Hop: Because there are so few changes and the beat stays the same.
Prog/post rock: Cos it's slow and contains long repeating passages
Metal: Because it's just dirging and doesn't have any female backing singers

see what I mean? That's kind of obvious. But what is boring to one person is really interesting to another.

Hell, my friends (being as they are the same age as me, 13-14) are all into hip-hop!! Anyway rap DOES suck, prog DOES rule, and I quite like the Strokes.