the post-helmet database of 90s alt-rock bands copping staccato/modal/minimal riffs

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SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 20:43 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Οὖτις, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 20:46 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I think the other big Whale single is even more in this vein

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 20:49 (two weeks ago) Permalink

directed by a young Jonas Akerlund

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 20:51 (two weeks ago) Permalink

was just saying to my friend that what a world that you could be Whale and sound like Helmet + Portishead and be on American TV for four months

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 20:59 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I don't think this Notwist album had any videos but I think the style fits.

billstevejim, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:01 (two weeks ago) Permalink

how could i forget

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:01 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I always thought that Live song could've been great if there was maybe 100% less Live guy.

orifex, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:14 (two weeks ago) Permalink

i've liked that prong track since I was in high school

is "modal" the right word though? i would have picked "detuned"

the late great, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:18 (two weeks ago) Permalink

billstevejim, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:18 (two weeks ago) Permalink

or maybe i confused staccato with fast

billstevejim, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:21 (two weeks ago) Permalink

yeah, the SPIN guide made the connection between Helmet's two-note riffs and the limits of Coltrane's modal jazz

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:23 (two weeks ago) Permalink

that's interesting! which spin guide?

the late great, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:24 (two weeks ago) Permalink

we don't recognize any other spin guides round these parts

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:25 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Prong: formed 1986
Helmet: formed 1989

Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:25 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Gavin, Leeds, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:25 (two weeks ago) Permalink

This is too early (1990) to really be Helmet-influenced, but the main riff, and especially that drum sound, are definitely working the same territory.

Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:35 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Prong: formed 1986
Helmet: formed 1989

― Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, April 12, 2017 5:25 PM (seventeen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah, but Prong used to sound like this!

They probably got a little leaner thanks to Helmet

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:45 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Not saying they bit their shit or anything

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:45 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I mean, the real beginning of this is probably, technically

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:47 (two weeks ago) Permalink

the GOAT

kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:48 (two weeks ago) Permalink

I never knew the Notwist sounded like that!

Also I really do not miss '90s rock drumming and tempos for the most part.

change display name (Jordan), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:55 (two weeks ago) Permalink

From my 2016 interview with Tommy Victor:

What’s the best riff you’ve ever written?
Hell, I don’t know. I’ve stolen or borrowed or been handed everything. Some people say I wrote the [Marilyn Manson] “Beautiful People” riff, but I don’t remember because I was so high on coke. Someone probably hummed it to me anyway. I would say the main riff of “Belief System” on X – No Absolutes. It was the first riff that ever came to me on a seven-string guitar. And probably the last. I have trouble enough on six.

Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 21:58 (two weeks ago) Permalink

the best riff he wrote was the bassline to marilyn and the moviestars "sex means nothing when you're dead"

kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 22:00 (two weeks ago) Permalink

i think this fits quite nicely

kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 22:03 (two weeks ago) Permalink

kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 22:03 (two weeks ago) Permalink

btw this genre is called door-core

kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 22:04 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Man, Clutch are just the fucking worst.

Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Wednesday, 12 April 2017 22:09 (two weeks ago) Permalink

yeah

kurt schwitterz, Wednesday, 12 April 2017 22:11 (two weeks ago) Permalink

Also I really do not miss '90s rock drumming and tempos for the most part.

I don't miss it because some bands still sound like this.

billstevejim, Friday, 14 April 2017 01:53 (one week ago) Permalink

o. nate, Friday, 14 April 2017 02:35 (one week ago) Permalink

billstevejim, Friday, 14 April 2017 02:45 (one week ago) Permalink

I think I'm still kinda unclear on the theme because I was about to post "Possum Kingdom."

billstevejim, Friday, 14 April 2017 02:50 (one week ago) Permalink

yeah, the SPIN guide made the connection between Helmet's two-note riffs and the limits of Coltrane's modal jazz

― SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, April 12, 2017 2:23 PM (yesterday)

Uh, two-note riffs were one of the main aesthetic things produced by no wave -- dunno where to begin with the weird conceit of this thread

also Morphine and Helmet were contemporaries so calling them "post-Helmet" is uh, a bit "the Beatles are more prevalent than pizza"

sarahell, Friday, 14 April 2017 02:54 (one week ago) Permalink

helmet drummer and bobby caldwell the only two drummers who would be on my top ten list of rock drummers based on two records each. bill ward, helmet drummer, bobby caldwell, dave lombardo, and, uh, six more drummers. and i rarely listen to the first helmet album so really kinda based on one album. oh and can drummer. so them and five more rock drummers. oh and joy division guy maybe. and ringo? maybe ringo. i don't actually make a lot of lists...

scott seward, Friday, 14 April 2017 03:07 (one week ago) Permalink

I think post-Helmet in this case refers more to post- in the A&R sense, like "let's promote this band with a Buzz Clip because Headbangers Ball has been playing more Helmet lately."

billstevejim, Friday, 14 April 2017 03:12 (one week ago) Permalink


Uh, two-note riffs were one of the main aesthetic things produced by no wave -- dunno where to begin with the weird conceit of this thread

If you can't tell why Helmet sounds different than DNA I can't help you.

also Morphine and Helmet were contemporaries so calling them "post-Helmet" is uh, a bit "the Beatles are more prevalent than pizza"

Yes, and Prong predates them. Thread is about specific songs/a specific sound

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 03:31 (one week ago) Permalink

I just think it's weird that you are considering Helmet the "origin" of this, when after a number of posts you realize that Faith No More did it earlier, and were most likely more influential.

Some of this is just de-tuned/grungified minimal riffs that on a formal level, you can trace back to Teenage Jesus and Sonic Youth, for example

I think your understanding of "modal" is up there with your buddy deej's infamous hemiola

Thread is about specific songs/a specific sound

fair enough, but why not just call it "bands that sound like mid-90s helmet" -- maybe add HAHAHAHAHA in all caps after it for old times sake

sarahell, Friday, 14 April 2017 04:38 (one week ago) Permalink

I think you may be looking for this:

https://youtu.be/ap3L_NCZk4s

jjjusten, Friday, 14 April 2017 05:18 (one week ago) Permalink

Or:

https://youtu.be/624dcA8YY7Q

jjjusten, Friday, 14 April 2017 05:20 (one week ago) Permalink

Or I'm missing the point.

jjjusten, Friday, 14 April 2017 05:22 (one week ago) Permalink

To be fair I got thrown off by Whale

jjjusten, Friday, 14 April 2017 05:23 (one week ago) Permalink

Oh duh

jjjusten, Friday, 14 April 2017 05:27 (one week ago) Permalink

https://youtu.be/wX6H2SjTLUg

jjjusten, Friday, 14 April 2017 05:28 (one week ago) Permalink

fair enough, but why not just call it "bands that sound like mid-90s helmet" -- maybe add HAHAHAHAHA in all caps after it for old times sake

If it would make this a safe space for no wave fans, imagine the thread title as "90s riffs that sound like mid-90s Helmet," sure

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 05:44 (one week ago) Permalink

"Savory" is a good one

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 05:45 (one week ago) Permalink

To be fair I got thrown off by Whale

Yeah, "Hobo" and Unsane aren't staccato enough for what I'm going for, but are close enough to hang out in the thread

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 05:46 (one week ago) Permalink

Soundgarden - My Wave

Lebro v. Wade (Spottie), Friday, 14 April 2017 07:35 (one week ago) Permalink

Silverchair - Freak

Stone Temple Pilots - Silver Gun Superman (just the intro probs)

Collective Soulol - Where the River Flows

Everclear - Santa Monica

Lebro v. Wade (Spottie), Friday, 14 April 2017 08:04 (one week ago) Permalink

Bulls On Parade more fitting than Wind Below Imo

Lebro v. Wade (Spottie), Friday, 14 April 2017 08:06 (one week ago) Permalink

Deftones - Around the Fur

Sevendust - Waffle

Lebro v. Wade (Spottie), Friday, 14 April 2017 08:16 (one week ago) Permalink

Lebro v. Wade (Spottie), Friday, 14 April 2017 08:27 (one week ago) Permalink

Wes Brodicus, Friday, 14 April 2017 08:28 (one week ago) Permalink

Therapy? - Screamager

chap, Friday, 14 April 2017 08:32 (one week ago) Permalink

If it would make this a safe space for no wave fans,

it's more like being told there's delicious ice cream in the conference room, and then coming in and finding a bunch of grunge bro-core turds

sarahell, Friday, 14 April 2017 08:47 (one week ago) Permalink

I think of Swans "Like A Drug" as one of the earlier strikes of this sound, and the closest sonic link between Prong and Swans.

I've never thought of these riffs as modal so much as thrash breakdowns eased into mid-tempo or slower.

pavane to the darryl of strawberry (bendy), Friday, 14 April 2017 10:55 (one week ago) Permalink

I think I'm still kinda unclear on the theme because I was about to post "Possum Kingdom."

― billstevejim, Thursday, April 13, 2017 10:50 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This was the first thing I thought of when I saw the thread title. This is an interesting mish-mosh of a thread. I hate almost all of the music in it. I feel like Biohazard has a role to play in this, but none of the three songs I checked out on youtube fit the criteria and that's all the time I have to listen to Biohazard today.

I'd never heard that Fishbone before though and it's great.

how's life, Friday, 14 April 2017 12:11 (one week ago) Permalink

Helmet definitely had a unique take on that type of staccato power chord riffing, but there definitely was other bands that were also doing a spin on Malcolm Young too. 'Walk' by Pantera is a 90s riff tune that came along same time that has that big ker-chunk that the nu-metal bands did too. I think a big part of why that stuff worked was that the simple rhythm could get a pit to go bonkers. That stuff is all over your moshpart/breakdowns in metal and hardcore.

earlnash, Friday, 14 April 2017 12:25 (one week ago) Permalink

Oh yeah, of course Pantera.

how's life, Friday, 14 April 2017 12:26 (one week ago) Permalink

Pantera - who made a turn toward that chugging style in 1992 - were definitely accused of ripping off Helmet on "Walk."

Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Friday, 14 April 2017 13:25 (one week ago) Permalink

"Possum Kingdom" is a good one, I never thought of it that way, but yes

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 13:36 (one week ago) Permalink

I really want to do a DJ set of post-Helmet groove alt metal and post-Onyx yell-rap

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 13:43 (one week ago) Permalink

Like, if these kids can get rich doing emo night DJ sets, why won't anyone pay me to do judgement night DJ sets

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 14:05 (one week ago) Permalink

the only green day song i have ever really liked:

scott seward, Friday, 14 April 2017 14:53 (one week ago) Permalink

and i totally love it because i love meantime.

scott seward, Friday, 14 April 2017 14:54 (one week ago) Permalink

well, the first part anyway. not the punky thing at the end.

scott seward, Friday, 14 April 2017 14:55 (one week ago) Permalink

this is totally one of my top 20 rock singles of the 90's and its because i love helmet AND bow wow wow.

scott seward, Friday, 14 April 2017 15:00 (one week ago) Permalink

they were cute too. the singer and guitarist look like cute britpoppers.

scott seward, Friday, 14 April 2017 15:12 (one week ago) Permalink

Pantera - who made a turn toward that chugging style in 1992 - were definitely accused of ripping off Helmet on "Walk."

― Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Jr, and Violent J (誤訳侮辱), Friday, April 14, 2017 6:25 AM (two hours ago)

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

sarahell, Friday, 14 April 2017 16:25 (one week ago) Permalink

MaresNest, Friday, 14 April 2017 16:28 (one week ago) Permalink

Wow, I tooooooootally forgot that Silverchair song. That's exactly what I'm looking for itt

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 17:04 (one week ago) Permalink

Can Collective Soul too! Thank you Spottie for understanding me.

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 17:09 (one week ago) Permalink

Deftones song is more like this other proto staccato/modal/minimal alt-metal signpost

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 17:13 (one week ago) Permalink

copped the helmet vocal style too

kurt schwitterz, Friday, 14 April 2017 17:35 (one week ago) Permalink

is this isnt shitty post helmet staccato riffing then i duno what is

kurt schwitterz, Friday, 14 April 2017 17:43 (one week ago) Permalink

kurt schwitterz, Friday, 14 April 2017 17:46 (one week ago) Permalink

this one is more helmetty

kurt schwitterz, Friday, 14 April 2017 17:50 (one week ago) Permalink

this little way of riffing opened up so much in the 90s and I have no idea how contemporary band like Wrong just wants to do Helmet cosplay

SSN Lucci (Whiney G. Weingarten), Friday, 14 April 2017 17:56 (one week ago) Permalink

damn thats really terrible

kurt schwitterz, Friday, 14 April 2017 18:00 (one week ago) Permalink

Always felt that QOTSA were Helmet inspired

On Some Faraday Beach (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 14 April 2017 18:27 (one week ago) Permalink

(but not 90s, soz)

On Some Faraday Beach (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 14 April 2017 18:27 (one week ago) Permalink

That Galactic Cowboys "If I Were a Killer" tune also touches another mid 90s sonic thing with the AIC harmony in the chorus. Hadn't heard that one before.

earlnash, Friday, 14 April 2017 19:43 (one week ago) Permalink

I'm determined to nail this

billstevejim, Sunday, 16 April 2017 06:27 (one week ago) Permalink

perhaps more pre-Rammstein than post-Helmet

billstevejim, Sunday, 16 April 2017 06:32 (one week ago) Permalink

xp "No One Knows" does kinda sound like this Helmet song released 2 years later

billstevejim, Sunday, 16 April 2017 06:36 (one week ago) Permalink

wrong is great imo but yeah, helmet cosplay

ToddBonzalez (BradNelson), Sunday, 16 April 2017 07:15 (one week ago) Permalink

The Wrong album is really great actually. It's a melodic Meantime for sure

Odysseus, Sunday, 16 April 2017 12:19 (one week ago) Permalink

billstevejim, Sunday, 16 April 2017 23:34 (one week ago) Permalink

hahaha holy shit that Smile song, I haven't heard that in like 20 years.

Neanderthal, Monday, 17 April 2017 00:25 (one week ago) Permalink

even the lyrics are simple...he's staring at the sun, he realizes he shouldn't have stared so long cos now he can't see at all!

Neanderthal, Monday, 17 April 2017 00:27 (one week ago) Permalink

Neanderthal, Monday, 17 April 2017 00:29 (one week ago) Permalink

it gets more traditional Sponge tho by the pre-choruses and verse

Neanderthal, Monday, 17 April 2017 00:32 (one week ago) Permalink

Neanderthal, Monday, 17 April 2017 00:34 (one week ago) Permalink

Neanderthal, Monday, 17 April 2017 00:36 (one week ago) Permalink


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