deftones: white pony

wtf @ no "boy's republic"!!!

or "mini maggit," lol

of the original 11, tempted to go with "Feiticeira." That is one densely packed tune.

surprised this wasn't polled already! might have to take the easy road and go with digital bath.

passenger sounds too much like Tool. This album hasn't aged as well as their others imo.

"boy's republic" is amazing but is a bonus track!!!!!!

i very clearly remember searching the depths of napster for it

as others have noted, "Boy's Republic" is an incredible facsimile of Hum

passenger sounds too much like Tool. This album hasn't aged as well as their others imo.

i disagree that "passenger" sounds like tool beyond maynard hanging out in the chorus; musically it seems deliberately related to "feiticeira," and they're incidentally both about abduction afaict. however i kind of agree that it hasn't "aged" as well as say, saturday night wrist which is less consistent than this record but sonically kinda perfects the deftones thing as it's huge and oceanic and irregular, whereas white pony can be characterized in retrospect as a transitional record almost. there's elements of where they were and where they're going in almost all of these songs

huh why had I never listened to this entire album before

!!!!!!

wow djp

I think I liked "Change" so much I was afraid to listen to the rest of the album in case it was one fantastic song surrounded by a bunch of nonsense

or the more likely thing is that I listened to it once and went "neat!" then went back to whatever Squarepusher album I was obsessed with at the time

i was just saying on facebook that this is an album i wish i could listen to for the first time again

now it's permanently etched in my memory but "knife prty" still completely overwhelms me. that's the one i'm voting for i think

woah "Rx Queen"

guest vocals in "knife prty" still genuinely horrifying

I find it interesting that (for the last few records at least, as I understand it) the band delivered complete instrumentals and then Chino added his vocals/lyrics last, sometimes months after the band has done their thing. Does anyone know if this was the case for WP as well?

passenger sounds too much like Tool. This album hasn't aged as well as their others imo.

i disagree that "passenger" sounds like tool beyond maynard hanging out in the chorus; musically it seems deliberately related to "feiticeira," and they're incidentally both about abduction afaict. however i kind of agree that it hasn't "aged" as well as say, saturday night wrist which is less consistent than this record but sonically kinda perfects the deftones thing as it's huge and oceanic and irregular, whereas white pony can be characterized in retrospect as a transitional record almost. there's elements of where they were and where they're going in almost all of these songs

― HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Thursday, February 4, 2016 2:37 PM (7 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Yeah WP is still a good record. don't mean to knock it. its just not my go to for this band. at the time tho, this album was everything.

I wish they still did the occasional guitar-free track a la "Teenager," "Anniversary..." and "Lucky You." Fingers crossed for one or two of 'em on Gore.

I find it interesting that (for the last few records at least, as I understand it) the band delivered complete instrumentals and then Chino added his vocals/lyrics last

i don't think this is true for saturday night wrist which chino played a lot of guitar on

I wish they still did the occasional guitar-free track a la "Teenager," "Anniversary..." and "Lucky You." Fingers crossed for one or two of 'em on Gore.

reminder that the last time they did one of these it was "pink cellphone"

Think I'm gonna try and learn the Street Carp riff this weekend.

I am listening to "Teenager" right now and there is a conspicuously up-front acoustic guitar line running throughtthe entire song

oh but yeah i think the band has generally functioned with chino adding vocals on top of instrumentals put together by the rest of the band

prob meant electric gueetar

these guys figured out the perfect balance of beauty and power

^^^^^

holy shit, "Knife Prty"

I just tried to look up the woman singing the bridge (Rodleen Getsic) and the Wikipedia link to her name redirects to a low-budget horror movie about a truck driver asphyxiating a prostitute, which she co-wrote and also stars in as the prostitute

welp

yeah the back half of that song is so great

that exact same thing happened to me today djp :\

today is the day when White Pony accidentally made us sad ;_;

I just got to "Passenger" and I would actually compare this to A Perfect Circle over Tool

yeah prob

Rx Queen bc it gets stuck in my head a LOT

this is an album i wish i could listen to for the first time again

i'm on it (sometime soon)

possibly i regret not voting for "pink maggit"

Interesting that there hasn't been an albums poll for this band.

oh that'd be a good idea. maybe after the new one comes out

still waiting for that everclear poll you promised to start

was it an albums poll or a so much for the afterglow poll

feel like no one wants that except for me and you lol

SMFTA poll. haha yeah it would just be us of course. might get some joke posts tho.

knife prty vs street carp

"change" sounded pretty unique on rock radio back at the time and i still remember it pretty clearly but i've neber actually heard this whole record. will give it a try

I find it interesting that (for the last few records at least, as I understand it) the band delivered complete instrumentals and then Chino added his vocals/lyrics last, sometimes months after the band has done their thing. Does anyone know if this was the case for WP as well?

― a serious and fascinating fartist (Simon H.), Thursday, February 4, 2016 4:52 PM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

from http://www.altpress.com/features/entry/the_class_of_2000_chino_moreno_on_deftones_white_pony

I started playing guitar on that record as well, which was pretty weird for a few reasons. One, I didn’t really know how to play guitar that well—I still really don’t, but obviously, I think I am a little better than I was then. So I was just trying to figure stuff out, and it worked in a way, but it barely worked. When I started playing, Stephen was really standoffish about it. He kind of thought I was stepping on his ground, like, why don’t I just worry about singing? To me it was just experimenting; I was just having fun. It was just another way of expressing myself without singing and just making notes and following along. Just counteracting certain melodies and trying different things. So it was just experimental and fun for me, but I didn’t look at it from Stephen’s standpoint. But what ended up happening when we started writing that record, was when a lot of the push-and-pull started coming from him and I.

voted "pink maggit." just an unbelievable closer and legitimately surprised they've played "back to school (mini) maggit" more times and more recently live than that.

"change" sounded pretty unique on rock radio back at the time and i still remember it pretty clearly but i've neber actually heard this whole record. will give it a try

that's partially because fall 1999 sparked a really bad era for rock radio. lots of kid rock, creed, "kryptonite," californication and limp bizkit all throughout 2000. it was like 1991-92 except the mega-huge breakthrough albums with 4 huge singles were all really bad and annoying. "change" and "judith" were the best songs on rock stations that summer by a long shot.

the Wikipedia link to her name redirects to a low-budget horror movie about a truck driver asphyxiating a prostitute

This sounds like the plot of a Deftones song. I've got a real problem with Chino's stalker fetish - the guy's written like three or four songs about kidnapping and killing women. "Feiteceira," at least, makes the singer the victim for once.

It's taken The Bunny Game four years to receive a proper American release, and we can see why. As the British Board of Film Classification's decision to ban it from UK cinemas makes clear, director Adam Rehmeier's black-and-white, near-snuff film isn't for the faint of heart; frankly, we don't know who in the hell it's for exactly.

The Human Centipede II, another recent piece of B&W exploitation, at least has the self-awareness and grasp on gallows humor to make us laugh at its insanity; The Bunny Game, with its repulsive presentation of a prostitute named Bunny (Rodleen Getsic) being endlessly and sickeningly savaged by a mad trucker, is torture porn without a funny bone in its celluloid body. Play this game at your own risk.

^from Complex's The 50 Most Disturbing Movies. Just so we can avoid false equivalences...

Wasn't Saturday Night Wrist the one produced by Bob Ezrin, and didn't Ezrin come out and say publicly well before its release that Chino was holding up the rest of the band by delaying recording his vox to focus on Team Sleep instead?

hey waitaminute saturday night wrist definitely includes a track where chino plays lead guitar and stephen carpenter plays drums

anyway i think it's hard to reduce their process to "chino adds vocals later" though that was probably the process for the new record as chino was in like five side projects over the past three years

yeah not sure what the timeline was there

In any case I find the relationship between the vox and the instrumentals fascinating and 100% unique

In terms of pure recording order, everything I've recorded (and everything that was't just a recorded studio jam) has always been rhythm section -> guitar/keys -> vocals so this doesn't seem all that unique to me, unless the songwriting process is actually to create a fully-formed instrumental that a vocal melody is composed and put on top of without any tweaking/reordering/rewriting of the instrumental.

'Street Carp'

Unsure as to whether this is the "peak" of "nu-metal", though. For me personally that accolade goes to System of a Down's Toxicity.

that could be a whole other poll...

I love(d?) SOaD too, though having Serj actually appear on a Deftones track ("Mein") turned out to be a bit of a failed experiment imo. Their worlds are too different.

lol what poll choices would one even include for a "peak of nu metal" poll

lol I meant for just those two options

well if i were doing it seriously then

sepultura: roots
korn: korn
deftones: white pony
system of a down: toxicity
incubus: make yourself
slipknot: iowa
evanescence: fallen?
disturbed: believe?
linkin park: meteora?
dir en grey: uroboros?
chevelle: wonder what's next?
vanilla ice: hard to swallow

ugh can't believe i forgot significant other

Hmm. Unsure as to whether Incubus could be considered "nu-metal"...

have you heard s.c.i.e.n.c.e.? they absolutely were

Septultura: Roots]
Korn: Korn
Deftones: White Pony
System of a Down: Toxicity
Slipknot: Slipknot

^ Certainly these.

i hate at least half of the first slipknot record. iowa is 100000x better

xpost:

I've heard them all up to Morning View, Brad, and my ears haven't forgiven me since as a result.

lol

i mean incubus were a false faith no more there for a while, kinda think that qualifies a band for nu-metal status

yeah that incubus album should be in there for sure.

really recommend that dir en grey album to anybody who enjoys both white pony and toxicity

never heard of them. will check it.

i hate at least half of the first slipknot record. iowa is 100000x better

― HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Friday, February 5, 2016 7:24 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I agree, Iowa is a better record than the self-titled release, but the self-titled release had far more commercial impact.

well by peak i'm not necessarily talking about sales but that elusive artistic quality thing

Thanks to this thread I went and listened to this album for the first time in at least 12 years. I was way into it from roughly ages 11-13, thanks to my older brother (from whom I got basically all musical knowledge at the time). In retrospect it may have had a bigger influence on the kind of punk/post-punk/indie music I got into subsequently than I ever realized.

Anyway, it's going to be "Digital Bath" for me. Great song, awesome drumming.

Also, even though the band apparently hated it and recorded it begrudgingly, I'm grateful for "Back to School". My brother and I were into Limp Bizkit, Korn, and RATM around this time, and without that song we probably would have never heard White Pony. There really couldn't have been a more perfect gateway.

"Back to School" is super fun. It would have made a fine Track 2. Just don't like it as an opener when contrasted to "Feiticeira."

I think it works great as an opener, but then I've never heard the album any other way.

fuck "back to school" tbh

I can't bring myself to dislike it. The rap verses do make me cringe a little, and they stick out like a sore thumb in the context of the rest of the album. But everything else about it works for me.

I remember how appalled I was when I heard 'Back To School' for the first time, because when White Pony first came out I remember hearing 'Pink Maggit' and thinking "man, that's actually one hell of a catchy melody, they should go all-out and release that as a single", but then when I heard 'Back To School' and what they'd done with it, I was all like "oh, for fucks sake, what have you done?" ... I always thought they should have just put out 'Pink Maggit' as it was and be done with it.

That was nothing compared to when I fucking saw the video, mind.

the video is hilarious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-r5_qKDBIv4

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

aw that's weird, two of the best songs got no votes

genuinely surprised that "digital bath" didn't take this though, which is kinda nice

So this video had taught me 2 things.

https://youtu.be/0SRd3xhLnMU

1. Hayley Williams needs to do a metal album ASAP.
2. I might finally be ready to appreciate the Deftones beyond Adrenaline (the only album of theirs that I like but wow what an album).

https://www.theringer.com/platform/amp/music/2020/6/17/21293057/oral-history-deftones-white-pony-20th-anniversary

i hate at least half of the first slipknot record. iowa is 100000x better

― HYPERLINK TO RAP GENIUS (BradNelson), Friday, February 5, 2016 12:24 PM (four years ago) bookmarkflaglink

man, this is a corny old opinion of mine. slipknot s/t loses momentum in the second half but so much of it is great

Terry Date, producer: I didn’t want them to feel stifled by one person. I wanted to make sure that if they go in a different direction with someone else, I’d be happy with that. It was a conversation [Soundgarden singer/guitarist] Chris Cornell and I had once or twice. [Cornell] didn’t think it was healthy for a band to work with the same person too much.

Cunningham: We did meet with Jerry Harrison from Talking Heads, and Rick Rubin. Rick would come out to our shows over the years, but he would just call us “The Tones,” you know, because he had that whole funeral thing for the word “def.” He wouldn’t say the word “def.”

the more I read about Rick Rubin the more he seems like the most annoying person alive

so basically, bullet dodged

man, this is a corny old opinion of mine. slipknot s/t loses momentum in the second half but so much of it is great

Yeah, but you are still otm about Iowa being 100000x better.

Carpenter: Fools got wasted. Did Abe tell you about stabbing himself in the head?

Cunningham: I got stabbed in the head.

Carpenter: I wasn’t there when it happened. It was days later, and they were talking about it. Abe was laying in bed, and he just rolled onto a knife somehow. I was like, “How does that even happen?” I know of the physical action of stabbing, but I was like, “Holy shit, dog, you could have killed yourself.”

they are such morons I love them

Rodleen Getsic, “Knife Party” guest vocalist: I had gone [to Larrabee Studios] because a friend of mine and amazing bass player, Rob Wasserman, was doing his solo record. I was going to check out his recordings.

There was this lounge/greenroom-type area upstairs at Larrabee, and everyone was taking a break. Someone put in a cassette recording of a show I had just played in San Francisco. Chino heard it and brought me aside and said, “Hey, will you sing on our record?” I said, “Well, I’m sure it’s possible. If it hits my soul, I can do it.”

When I heard the band name, Deftones, I seriously thought it was going to be a ska band or reggae.

They started playing a little bit of the song, and right away, I was like, “Stop it, let’s press Record. Let’s go.” I was feeling the song right away in my soul. I knew something was going to come out of it. It wasn’t very long in the recording booth. It was improvisational and spontaneous. It was just a few takes. It all happened very quickly.

20 years old today

Chino is also 47 today. Is it weird to release your major album on your birthday? It's like getting married on the day you started dating.

I think it's great that one of the very best singers in rock is also a massive fuckin dork

De Stijl by the White Stripes, Rising Tide by Sunny Day Real Estate, Quality Control by J5, Anarchy by Busta, Domestica by Cursive, One Wrench by Avail, and the Deftones' White Pony all dropped on the same day in 2000?

— Craig Bro Dude (@CraigSJ) June 20, 2020

This is an aside, but a cursory glance at Terry Date's production credits include:

Mother Love Bone - Apple
Dark Angel - Time Does Not Heal
Pantera - Cowboys From Hell
Soundgarden - Badmotorfinger
Screaming Trees - Uncle Anasthesia
Prong - Cleansing
Fishbone - Give A Monkey A Brain

and best of all (I'll be alone in this) Mind Funk - Dropped.

That's quite the lineup!