thread to argue about whether sexism is inherent to the discussion of image/appearance/attractiveness of musicians

because keep it the fuck out of the pj harvey thread.

how u doin?

I guess they still want to lob shit back and forth about it over there.

the problem with ghettoizing topics like this to specific threads is that it becomes a place for hiveminds to congregate that is easily avoided by people who are, like, actually the problem

also what is up with the shit-throwing imagery, did this turn into i love coprophilia

I normally hate the shit imagery. "album x shits on album y from a great height." blech. Don't know why I used it there except that I subconsciously just carried it over from that thread.

My initial impulse was to say "Can't you mention you're finding an artist 'cute' in a particular instance without it having any bearing on your evaluation of their music or philosophies?" in the pj harvey thread but I totally understand the points maura brought up.

Yeah, maura's points are good - but having sat through aeons of Branwell (with an N)'s Thom Yorke, Aphex Twin and now Kessler obsessions, I'm not sure it's just a guy thing.

I still think Lex is a ham-fisted xxx

"There's this one chick on a messageboard" vs, y'know, 2000 years of culture. That's a totally fair comparison, and completely appropriate.

(Also, it's not like I have not explained a thousand times how a large part of my actions are in *response* to sexist culture and sexist assumptions, but hey, no, don't bother taking any of that on board, I made a couple of "would smash" comments about dudes, that makes the entire systematic oppression of the rest of the music industry A-OK are you fucking kidding me.)

I seriously cannot be bothered having this argument for the 47,000th time this year. Honestly, I haven't got the time. I've got photos of Kessler to google. Have a nice thread.

http://static.tumblr.com/00ad92f6738f58b17d6230d81e1f2c33/uz5sd8y/jYLn5j37k/tumblr_static_df9kg74c25w8kcwo04k8wkock.gif

i love coprophilia

Wouldn't that be redundant?

Someone who's thought of this longer than me please correct me if I'm wrong, but comparing women who objectify men with men objectifying women totally ignores the institutional power imbalances between genders -- the one is orders of magnitude more pervasive (and pernicious) than the other.

Bob Six, you should really read up on this topic before smacking your gums about it. I can't tell if you're 12 years old, 82 years old, or just really really dumb.

The rest of this thread is left as an exercise for the reader, who may care to confirm it ends in a stalemate in 245 posts.

don't be sixist, Bob

this thread is definitely going in good-faith places

Who will be summoned to fuck off and die next?

Hopefully the asshole concern-trolling the few women in the thread about "stigmatizing themselves," who will probably next be telling black people that if they would just stop playing the race card all the time things would change.

how is this not a Branwell thread

haha nm

the problem with ghettoizing topics like this to specific threads is that it becomes a place for hiveminds to congregate that is easily avoided by people who are, like, actually the problem

― maura, Thursday, September 18, 2014 11:00 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Also, feel like boards like this send the message of "Don't call it out when and where it happens, take it to this special thread that can be easily ignored."

You basically just rephrased what she said.

yeah, fair enough, classic mansplain. sorry all.

maura totally otm.

yup

maura otm

reinforced of course by the fact that people who do call it out where it occurs get told to "stop shitting up this thread, take it elsewhere"

Is that every. single. time ?

This made me think of the word "cute"...never had a reaction to it until now...now I think "cute" in general (grown men or women) is distasteful.

Yeah, cute shouldn't exist. Nothing is really cute and if it is, that's not a good thing to be. It's not an attribute one should aspire to nor wish to be described by.

😻

I don't think "cute" is a bad word. Seeing it as a source of controversy just made me consider that maybe we shouldn't apply it to seasoned men and women. I associate it with high school or college.

I suppose old people can be "cute"....it can be applied in a non- patronizing way. I wouldn't call a man "cute" either, it would make me feel immature.

I use the word cute, I had started to wonder if its not a good choice, but sticking with for now anyway

I associate with mannerisms as much as looks, where the two meet

As to the thread itself, if I'm interested in their work as an artist then i judge them on their music and if i was going to discuss them i'd discuss their music

If im not interested in their work i wouldnt discuss them at all, regardless of whether they were attractive or not other than to say ive never heard them or not really my thing

unless the music was really irritating then i'd discuss their music again and say its horrible please make it stop

and if you like their music AND you find them attractive?

then don't tell us about it

Shit thread, how's life

"Gentlemen, you can't discuss sexual politics in here, this is the PJ Harvey thread!"

what if you find them attractive because you like their music and think they're extremely talented and amazing?

What if live music performance is both an audio and visual medium?

it's kinda amazing that ppl can post on this board for so long and not understand what types of posts riles up other posters

I sure do

and if you like their music AND you find them attractive?

― monoprix à dimanche (dog latin),

I probably wouldnt mention their attractiveness. I probably wouldnt mention anyway but maybe its sort of the difference between "a musician who happens to be cute" and "a cute person who apparently makes some terrible music i have no interest in". Though in both cases cant imagine commenting on appearance in their thread (anyway isnt that what the "would smash" thread is for?)

What if live music performance is both an audio and visual medium?

― how's life,

sure, although I dont like live music so I leave this conundrum to others

for live music see also music videos

Can't believe maura said that nobody is ever allowed to mention a band's image, RIP free speech I guess :-(

no gods, no masters

http://37.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_me4lsbtzS21qa1w59o1_500.gif

for live music see also music videos

― monoprix à dimanche (dog latin),

dont like them either

album covers?

photographs?

anything you can get your sweaty, palms on?

well this thread appears to be constructive

take it to another thread

what perky usernames you have

*whips the microwave door open to stop the kitchen timer*

why is that guy bending beardo+w glasses over his knee like he's going to spank him

― Οὖτις,

it doesn't look like he's getting spanked, he's getting spliced

i recently saw this one pic of julian casablancas smiling and he looked like ray romano. i can't find it right now though.

hahaha

getting SPLACKED rather *whips autocorrect*

Casablancas looked like he was tarred and feathered

What the fuck drugs was I taking in 2001 or whenever to make him look even remotely attractive. (Don't answer that.)

the drugs you take while listening to an Interpol record called El Pintor

(sorry – couldn't resist)

I'd have thought Nick Valensi would be the Stroke with the most Branwell appeal tbh

what about leather vest guy? kessler has worn a leather vest, right?

or maybe it was just a vest

eventually JC will look like this

http://i.models.com/mdx/i/2013/04/JohnCasablancas.jpg

Hey shut up, I actually respect Interpol for their ~music~ as well as thinking they're totally shagwell material!

The entire media culture that produces celebrities, including "serious" musicians, is focused on attractiveness, is built on attractiveness, so it's kind of beside the point to say "well *I* don't focus on whether PJ Harvey is attractive" -- you're a lot less likely to ever even come across her less attractive counterpart. I don't know how much of that is media reflecting our culture vs. the nature of media that relies heavily on visual images to market someone, but that seems like the inescapable fact. We can still always push back against that to an extent, demand something different, but most people will continue to discuss the attractiveness of musicians, especially female musicians, because that is what the culture pretty much encourages/asks them to do all the time.

Come on, Kessler wouldn't wear a *leather* vest under his suit, he's vegetarian!

His vest would totally be designed by Dior Homme from the tears of angels or something. Kessler has style, man. And style is worthwhile.

(I think Carlos was more the "leather vest" type, back in his "Weimar Lesbian Cabaret" days.)

*but he eats fish.

Bastard.

*whips the thermostat off the wall*

*horsewhips thread off ILX*

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HhXrxliETbA/Tefnumd-yiI/AAAAAAAAAJY/m4eoKxlHby0/s1600/tumblr_l2oocolhxB1qa49ego1_500.jpg

I think some writers must find Harvey attractive, they've written about her like she's a man-eating harpy, which is their way of saying 1) they take her too literally 2) they're uncomfortable when an attractive woman performs as she does.

Nothing wrong with finding anyone attractive, what bugs me is when someone assumes everyone shares their taste.

(sigh...)

http://www.broberg.pp.se/images/sd_ecstasyback.jpg

that disembodied hand let me tell you

*whips the 5kHz fader up 2 dB*

hubba hubba...who rivaled them for pure early 70s uglitude

JLO and Iggy Azalea turn up the heat in Booty video

https://music.yahoo.com/blogs/music-news/j-lo-and-iggy-azalea-turn-up-the-heat-in--booty--video-144651354.html

watching that video made me physically ill

Lopez makes a public service announcement, prepping viewers for "maximum impact" before triggering a countdown that ends with an explosion and alternating opening shots of the stars' backsides, as Lopez chants the chorus "Big big booty, she got a big booty."

maura did you not prepare yourself for maximum impact

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeZNtmwmGrw

I keep waiting for the day when a group of attractive male popstars will all line up and display their packages, all carefully framed and gazed-up, in front of the camera for my delectation and delight.

Why does that day never come.

Maybe like this, but framed better

http://38.media.tumblr.com/df971c6e1cfaea0f49cfe9e32ef906fb/tumblr_miy191BcOu1r9spw1o1_500.gif

You know, to cut off his head and show more of his thighs.

But no, we just make fun of the (lack of) male attractiveness and make jokes about "uglitude".

https://vyxen.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/lmfao-sexy-and-i-know-it-music-video.jpg

(sorry)

The Strokes were renowned for lying about their ages even in 2001, so Julian is just a slobby mid-40s guy. (and at best the 3rd-hottest Stroke)

he's in his mid-40s?!
what?!

he's 36.

You know, to cut off his head and show more of his thighs.

But no, we just make fun of the (lack of) male attractiveness and make jokes about "uglitude".

― Aphex T (wins) (Branwell with an N), Friday, September 19, 2014 3:41 PM (3 minutes ago)

What did I do? Both SD and the press joked at the time about their appearance...not smart enough to tell what alarm bells I set off but whatever it was, I apologize!

Kessler's 40 next week, and still looks like this:

http://www.nylonguysmag.com/nylonguys/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/IMG_4288.jpg

No excuse.

He looks like bloody indie Henry Winkler chewing fecking plums! I said without any trace of jealousy.

but what if lana del ray were a man? what then? (credit: clickhole)

casablancas has always looked schlubby to me! Part of the charm, imo.

walkmen guy so cuddly: http://www.ribbonmusic.com/label/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/ham_crop.jpg
http://www.mojo4music.com/media/2014/04/Hamilton-Leithauser-770.jpg

he's 36.

still lying, i bet

I have hardly any idea what most new artists I listen to even look like these days. The visual component in the media package for music seems less important lately. Of course, I'm willing to bet I'm the exception to the rule.

http://i.imgur.com/KSRnX7u.png

http://forums.kickassclassical.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=278

Why do male singers never get naked enough for th.... WHY HELLO THAR.

http://theredlist.com/media/database/muses/icon/iconic_men/1970/serge-gainsbourg/208-serge-gainsbourg-theredlist.jpeg

https://twitter.com/lordemusic/status/532779335443558400

Burn.

big fan of lorde dragging diplo on behalf of taylor and azealia dragging eminem on behalf of lana

I keep clicking on that tweet just to read it again.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/01/secret-life-female-dj-music-industry-misogyny