The Byrds: Classic Or Dud

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They've hardly ever been mentioned here, and that seems a bit weird, given that they're important and interesting and pop. You can do some searching and destroying here too. I think they were classic, an absolutely pristine pop sound, and I love how all their early covers reduce the originals to a blank spacey prettiness ("Bells Of Rhymney" for instance, where a song about a mining disaster becomes a pop-art abstracted jangle). So, yes, classic.

― Tom, Monday, 14 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

The 'pristine pop sound' would not cover their country-rock phase, then, I'm assuming?

― Josh, Monday, 14 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Let me say, very, very briefly, that from my point of view Tom Ewing is right on the money on this; which will, I hope and trust, surprise no-one.

― the pinefox, Monday, 14 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

The pristine pop sound certainly lingers on the country stuff, especially on the covers again - their version of "You Ain't Goin' Nowhere" simply gleams. I dont know enough about the post-Gram Parsons lineup to make any judgements about their stuff, really.

― Tom, Monday, 14 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

The puncture by which Coltrane got into the rock bloodstream (since ILM seems collectively to hoist A Bloody Love Bloody Supreme into top 75-dom, this is hereby deemed a BAD thing. Bah).

Search: anything written abt the first UK tour (1965?), said (well, someone once said it to me) to be the LOUDEST thing anyone had till then heard. Not prettines: VOLUME. You don't get that on the records.

Destroy: anything anyone has ever called Byrdsy.

― mark s, Monday, 14 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

? I thought Coltrane 'got into the rock bloodstream' by being one of the highest-profile jazz musicians of the 20th century. What are you talking about?

(And what about Duane Allman, or one of those dudes?)

― Josh, Monday, 14 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

JC high profile?: not really, not in 1965. He was specialist knowledge then: hip arcana. The McGuinn solo on "Eight Miles High" (I think — it's too late at night to play it and check; it's famous and I'm stupid for not remembering). Afterwards Cream, then still others, took the idea of the endless solo big, and took it elsewhere. But this was the PUNCTURE: the pinpoint of entry. When it could still go good or bad: I think it went bad (not Coltrane's fault – he was dead; which is why I blame McGuinn for ALS being so overpicked: just so NOT his best record).

― mark s, Monday, 14 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I restate: Coltrane was one of the highest-profile jazz musicians of the century. He was less popular in 1965, to be sure, but his high profile was established earlier.

My opinions on which of his albums was 'best' change from day to day but I suspect you're reacting a bit too strongly to ALS's being highly rated.

― Josh, Monday, 14 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

And anyway I think this is a rather convoluted way of justifying why or why not to like the Byrds.

― Josh, Monday, 14 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Definitely CLASSIC!

All the songs on Mr. Tambourine Man are gorgeous, euphoric. I haven't listened to their later songs in a long time, but 'Chestnut Mare' stands out. I mean there's a point when you can imagine the guy throwing the lasso - infinitely gentle but a conquest nonetheless - what a great idea for a song!

I didn't know what 'Bells of Rhymney' was about until now, but that makes it interesting. At the end of Fifth Dimension, two of the band members talk for a long time, and it's all about the idealism of the sixties in the U.S. So it could just have been profound innocence and optimism at that stage that made them decide to perform a song about a disaster as a 'pop-art abstracted jangle' - not that this is something that needs to be defended. If indie pop bands look back to the Byrds, it must be for this reason.

― youn, Monday, 14 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

They're good, yeah. But I almost like the Monkees more. :-)

― Ned Raggett, Monday, 14 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Mark S IS "on the money" abt the Coltrane/Byrds connection - the main melody of '8 Miles High' is stolen pretty much wholesale from the JC track 'India' (you can find it on the alb 'Impressions' and compare and contrast.) Legend has it that Gene Clark and Brian Jones used to listen to 'India' all the time while touring together in the mid-sixties, and the melody just 'somehow' crept into '8 Miles High'. Funnily enough I was listening to 'Notorious Byrd Bros' the other day, and there's a bonus instrumental on the cd reissue called 'Universal Mind Decoder' that sounds quite a lot like Television - I know Verlaine listened to a lot of Coltrane/Jazz, so I guess that's the second 'puncture'...

As for the Byrds, Classic of course. Don't know of many other bands with at least four great songwriters - Gene Clark, McGuinn, Hillman and even Crosby back in the day - who could also sing, play, produce etc. Everything after 'Sweetheart of the Radio' is patchy, and DESTROY the terrible 'reunion' alb they made in the early 70s.

― Andrew L, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

classic. no argument. the don't seem to be mentioned anywhere a great deal (considering their canonical status).

notorious byrd brothers and younger than yesterday are probably their best, although i have a soft spot for untitled. i like the change in direction they made, but the gram parsons stuff isn't all that.

― gareth, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

There are about 5 different phases to consider here! For simplification let's divide it into 3. Firstly the 'classic' McGuinn/Hillman/Crosby/Clark/Clarke line up, secondly the 'post-Gene, pre-Gram' albums, and thirdly, let's call it the 'Country' era.

The M/H/C/C/C line up did Mr Tambourine Man/Turn!Turn!Turn!/Fifth Dimension. (OK, I know Gene was missing for most of 3D) All excellent, especially the debut and 3D. I always felt that TTT has a couple of slow songs (He was a Friend of Mine/Lay Down Your Weary tune) which drag compared to the debut, and some of the harmonies are sicklier than they need to be. It does contain Gene Clark's monumental "The World Turns All Around Her" though. Each of these three albums contains one abomination - We'll Meet Again, Oh Susanna! and The Lear Jet Song respectively.

Part 2, exit Gene, but Chris Hillman ALMOST makes up for this on "Younger Than Yesterday" by writing Time Between/Girl with No Name and and a couple of others. We're heading in a Country-ish direction though. Watch Out! Oh, and best song is Crosby's "Everbody's Been Burned", although he deserves to be horribly disfigured for subjecting us to the horror that is "Mind Gardens". Ignoring this horror - another great album. Less than a year on, and Crozza has gone too, but contributed some good stuff to the heady "Notorious Byrds Brothers". Surprise, surprise it's great too, but very different to what went before. McGuinn this time supplies the obligatory clunker with "Space Oddessey", which also serves as the "song about space flight or flying" which all Byrds albums must have. Best track - Goffin and King's "Goin' Back.

So parts one and two - Classic. On to Phase 3, and this is where it gets choppy. I have never understood the attraction of Gram Parsons, and just cannot get into "Sweetheart of the Rodeo". Just too country for me, I guess. I also think that McGuinn's reputation is extremely tarnished from here on in. For a start, as 'leader' of the band he doesn't exactly contribute many good songs. Then again, maybe he never did - if I had to make a c-90 of the best of the Byrds, I'd start with Gene Clark's songs, cherry pick from Crosby, put on all of Chris Hillman's and THEN get onto McGuinn. The other big problem is that he let some real fools into the band, and what's worse - let them WRITE! Yep, Skip Battin I mean YOU! And Gene Parsons.

While I'm on the subject of Parsons' - has there ever been a drummer more unsuited to the band he found himself in? Clearly the Byrds needed a sympahetic, supportive drummer to replace M. Clarke. What do they get - a flash, domineering idiot who couldn't keep time. Just listen to the live side of "Untitled" or the Fillmore album if you don't believe me.

The last phase is not without merit - you get Clarence White's boggling country-psyche picking, and "Untitled" is a spirited effort, but to me The Byrds means "Mr Tambourine Man through to "Notorious...", and is effortlessly Classic.

― Dr. C, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

What Dr C has to say is informed, impressive and - I think - largely accurate in its judgements. He does well to remind us of the complexity of the Byrds' career; no, not to remind us (we knew about it), but to spell it out again. I don't think that TTT is as bad as he makes out, though. It has 'She Don't Care About Time' on it (or is that only the CD reissue, 2 versions? not sure, now); maybe my favourite Clark song of all.

Point of information: as far as I can make out, the lyric of 'Chestnut Mare' is based on a tall tale at the beginning of Ibsen's Peer Gynt, with a horse substituted for a stag. This may not be quite right: there may have been another, more local source which had the same root as Ibsen; or McGuinn and Ibsen might both have been drawing on a very old source. But the resemblance (and genealogical relation) is not in doubt.

Strange feature of the interview on the end of the CD: McGuinn and Crosby taking each others' names.

McGuinn has never been coy about acknowledging Coltrane, as far as I know - he's always seemed up-front about it to me, almost to the point of banging on excessively. I certainly don't hold that against the Byrds; and indeed I like it when people say that 'Eight Miles High' is their favourite 45 of all time.

Please don't Destroy anyone who's ever been called Byrdsy. I'm all scared now.

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Pinefox, perhaps you knew this already but 'Chestnut Mare' was originally written as part of a musical (by McGuinn and Jacques Levy(sp?), who co-authored Dylan's 'Desire' album) based on 'Peer Gynt'. No, really....

― Andrew L, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

No - really??

― the pinefox, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

I think what I probably meant, Pinefox, was "Destroy: the habit of calling (all kinds of) things 'Byrdsy'". And plainly it would be superbly daft genuinely to denounce Byrds, The, on the strength of a vote in the ILM 2001 Poll (when the vote is in fact for someone else entirely, albeit someone with some lineal connection to, er, Byrdsiness... )

― mark s, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Awesome post from Dr C. I concur 100%!

x0x0x

― norman fay, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Pinefox and Norman, you are too kind! The aborted Peer Gynt- based musical was called "Gene Tryp", and there are a couple of other songs from it on "Untitled". Can't recall which ones exactly - "Just a Season" I think was one.

― Dr. C, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

the pre-parsons stuff would be nice if only it wasn't for the lifeless choirboy singing.

i hate country music.

search: _chronic town_, _murmur_, husker du's take on "eight miles high."

― sundar subramanian, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

i hate country music.

Don't worry about it Sundar, nobody's perfect ;).

The Byrds = Classic. I don't listen to them all that often, but they sing pretty and I've liked almost everything I've heard by them.

― Patrick, Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

Thought I'd list a few slightly less well-known "Searches" I think I dealt with the "Destroy" list above.

So, Search for : "I know my Rider" and "Eight Miles High [RCA version] (extra tracks on the reissue of 5D) "All The Things" (from Untitled), "Don't Make Waves" (extra track on reissue of Younger than Yesterday), "She Don't Care about Time" (2 versions n the re-issue of TTT)

― Dr. C, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

the pre-parsons stuff would be nice if only it wasn't for the lifeless choirboy singing

get out those Joe Cocker records! Soul baby!

― Pete, Wednesday, 16 May 2001 00:00 (12 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

Have just been reading the new Oxford Companion to Jazz - a truly crappy anthology, btw - and came across this in the chapter on Coltrane - "'India' appears to be based on a recorded Vedic chant (that is, with a text coming from the Vedas, religious books of the 1500s) that was issued on a Folkways LP at the time." Intriguing if true - the book is riddled with errors of fact and judgement, so I'm wary about taking anything in it as gospel - 'cos again McGuinn was one of the first Western pop musicians to show an interest in Indian music - 'Moog Raga' indeed - and I wonder if he was also familiar with Coltrane's source material when he and his pals set about writing/recording "Eight Miles High'.

― Andrew L, Saturday, 2 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

What's the date of Moog Raga, Andrew? If "Moog" means what I think it means, when 68 or after, has to be. In which case the direct raga-ness could easily have by then entered by another portal (Beatles, Brian Jones, Ravi of course, the NY avant garde, even). It's a great idea, tho: someone shd do something on how Folkways as a whole got unrock noises into the rock bloodstream. I vaguely remember Toop saying in Wire, years ago, that one of the Folkways records includes stuff by a man who had throat or tongue cancer speaking and breathing through a hole cut in his neck! (cf eg Mötörhead and the death-metal croak?!)

― mark s, Saturday, 2 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

"Moog Raga" was originally slated to be on the "Notorious Byrd Brothers" album, and I believe it actually appeared on the track listing in some promo/advertising material from the time. It's on the CD reissue of "NBB" (along with a studio argument where David Crosby is really snidey to Michael Clarke) "Moog Raga" is pretty duff IMO, which is a shame, as the sound conjured up in your mind by "the Byrds Moog Raga" is fantastic.

BTW, when Rog McGuinn first got his small Moog Modular system, he was completely stumped by it. He called Bob Moog, and was reportedly told that if he didn't know how to use it, then he shouldn't have bought it! This is as nothing compared to the other early synth pioneer Donald Buchla. I heard of one fellow who bought a used buchla system, and phoned buchla & co for service info. Buchla then phoned up the guy he'd bought it off, and shouted abuse down the phone along the lines of "HOW DARE YOU SELL THE INSTRUMENT i CUSTOM MADE FOR YOU!!!"

Moog modular synthesisers are available new from a company called moog custom engineering, but IMO those wishing to record moog ragas of their very own would be advised to check out:

http://www.synthtech.com http://www.wiard.com http://www.modcan.com

x0x0

― Norman Fay, Saturday, 2 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

The Bob Moog story is funny, tho I find it a little unlikely: he's a very civil and businesslike gentleman. The Buchla story I've heard — from Morton Subotnick? — and it sounds very in character.

― mark s, Saturday, 2 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Morton Subotnik is possibly the best name ever, especially as it sounds like '(Dr.)Robotnik' from the Sonic The Hedgehog games. Even the superb 'Bob Moog' pales in comparison.

― DG, Saturday, 2 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Mark - 'Moog Raga' recorded 1st Nov 1967. Here's what it says in the liner notes to 'Never Before', a collection of Byrds rarities/outtakes etc.: "McGuinn first encountered the Moog at the Monterey Pop Festival during the summer of 1967, and, duly impressed, purchased one of the early models directly from the inventor, R. A. Moog, for around $9,000. The only hitch was that the machine came without instructions... Mr Moog opined that if one didn't know how to use it already, one should not own it in the first place. "

Earliest ref to the Indian influence I can find is that in late '65, McGuinn used his Rickenbacker guitar to simulate the sound of a Sitar on the track "Why' ; first version of 'Eight Miles High' recorded at the same session. So quite early, but dunno if it predates 'Paint it Black' and George Harrison's first 'Eastern' influenced songs. And yes, "someone shd do something on how Folkways as a whole got unrock noises into the rock bloodstream." - I'll read it if you write it! The Smithsonian Institute are currently reissuing many of the old albs (many on CD-R!), and I have a pretty comprehensive catalogue for this, so I might do a bit more digging...

― Andrew L, Sunday, 3 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

That's the same liner notes Norman referred me too. Which is cool — except (a) you can't always rely on liner notes to be, er, reliable, and (b), what was Moog doing at Monterey if not pushing his brilliant techno-baby, and what kind of a twit inventor-salesman refuses to sell to those who aren;t up to speed. His whole pitch is: no one's up to speed yet, this is TOTALLY NEW... (Which it totally was.)

The raga stuff: so is it a case of parallel evolution (which is, like, not impossible) or is it chart-pop rivals jockeying for Best Use of this Week's Gimmick (which is the Secret Story of Rock, 64-68)? Lennon-McCartney (latter esp.) made a project of study of their whippersnapper competitors: could they even have been researching Byrds out-takes?

Folkways: It's another whole chapter. Oh joy. Or is that Oh fuck.

― mark s, Sunday, 3 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Gram Parsons was a spoiled rich-kid charlatan who couldn't write a country lyric or sing for shit, and I'm glad he's dead. Gene Clark forever!

― tarden, Sunday, 3 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Possibly earlier (the album Pisces, Capricorn, Aquarius and Jones was recorded between April 26 and Oct 4th 1967) than Moog Raga were The Monkees "Star Collector" and "Daily Nightly", both featuring some Moog from Paul Beaver and Mickey Dolenz respectively. Dolenz's Moog "skills" make his drumming seem up there with thelikes of Moon and Bonham.

― Dr. C, Sunday, 3 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Of course out in the world is what counts (in respect of who's copying who), not down the studio, BUT that name Krause is one to conjure with. And was McCartney keeping tabs on the Monkees? I'd put big money on it...

Brilliant: I knew the Byrds would one day deliver something of massive pleasure to me, and this is it. Respeck, Dr C.

(Actually when I was playing them earlier today the only track I wanted to give a second listen was 'Mind Gardens'! They're probably my number-one Yes-yes-I-know- they're-great-can-we-listen-to-something- else-now-please? band... Guess I must still not be playing them loud enough.)

― mark s, Sunday, 3 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Oops: Beaver = Krause, or rather doesn't, except in my head.

― mark s, Sunday, 3 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

People interested in the history and use of early synthesisers on pop tracks should read:

http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~tewing/rockmach.html

...and shudder in astonishment as FT actually prints something which is WELL-RESEARCHED (or *at all* researched)

― Tom, Sunday, 3 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I read somewhere on the web today that The Monkees WERE the first to use a Moog. Astounding!

― Dr. C, Monday, 4 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I too want this to be true, Dr C, but it is possible also to "read on the web" — at, say, http://members.home.net/veganmozfan — that aliens enabled Morrissey, through the use of song, to predict Princess Di's carcrash...

― mark s, Monday, 4 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

You mean THEY DIDN'T?????

Heaven knows I'm miserable now.

― Nicole, Monday, 4 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

I only just read veganmozfan's site, and have misled you all: not "aliens" but "one old alien" (= anag. Alain Delon, coverstar for — wait for it — THE QUEEN IS DEAD).

I am a convert, needless to say.

― mark s, Monday, 4 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

Point taken Mark! The sleevenotes of the Rhino reissue of PAC+J had already led me to work out that they were ONE OF the first to get mooged-up. Sound samplers and test recordings apart, it looks like the Monkees may have been the first to use it on a *pop* record, and it's fantastic that it was Mickey Dolenz!

― Dr. C, Tuesday, 5 June 2001 00:00 (11 years ago) Permalink

4 years pass...

The Doc was great on this thread.

But I am reviving now to say: THE PREFLYTE SESSIONS: SEARCH! Or Destroy, whatever you want. I just want to hear some views on that collection. 'You Movin'' - wow!

― the byrdfox, Tuesday, 5 July 2005 13:48 (7 years ago) Permalink

It's good, from what I remember

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 13:54 (7 years ago) Permalink

TOTALLY UNBELIEVABLY CLASSIC. Mostly Gene Clark meloncholy gems, but it's all good. I have the orig. Columbia vinyl and the Poptones CD, but there's other versions, most recently on Sundazed I think, with a few extra tracks maybe?

― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 14:00 (7 years ago) Permalink

I've got Cassette version of it that had extra trax

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 14:01 (7 years ago) Permalink

so THIS was the thread with the Monkees Moog stuff on it.

I haven't listened to The Byrds for ages, apart from Untitled. I enjoyed the live stuff especially and I am forced to concede that I was possibly too harsh on Gene Parsons upthread. S.Battin is still a tool.

― Dr. C (Dr. C), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 15:10 (7 years ago) Permalink

Oh, I like Gene Parsons! He's got a nice voice and he wrote some good songs. There's a song he wrote for the Flying Burrito Bros. which is a real classic, can't remember the name of it. Saw him live once and he was most entertaining!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 15:14 (7 years ago) Permalink

... but Skip Battin was a bit of a disaster, especially when Kim Fowley was involved

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 15:15 (7 years ago) Permalink

My favourite Gene Parsons / Burritos song is "Sweet Desert Childhood", though "Wind And Rain" is also pretty great.

I'm amazed I didn't rise to the bait of the Doc ragging on Gene Parsons, because I'm a great admirer of his solo "The Kindling Album". His LP "Melodies" is less good, despite the promising title.

I think "Yesterday's Train" is beautiful, even.

I've never heard "Pre-Flyte", having always worked on the assumption that I don't really like The Byrds pre-Gram. I have a horrible feeling that this is a contrarian position I once took, sometime around 1987, and then the wind changed and I got stuck like that.

Perhaps I have some treats in store.

― Tim (Tim), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 15:34 (7 years ago) Permalink

"Wind and Rain", that's it!

― Dadaismus (Dada), Tuesday, 5 July 2005 15:36 (7 years ago) Permalink

Skipping 69 messages at this point... Click here if you want to load them all.

I never quite understood what he intended to do with the horse once he caught it.

― dog latin, Thursday, 12 November 2009 19:57 (3 years ago) Permalink

feel like someone on ILM recommended it on another Byrds thread, but that Live At Royal Albert Hall thing that came out a few years back is incredible. Better than Untitled!

― tylerw, Thursday, 12 November 2009 19:58 (3 years ago) Permalink

i agree, tyler.

when he caught the horse they were gonna be friends for live, obv.

― ian, Thursday, 12 November 2009 20:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

life*

― ian, Thursday, 12 November 2009 20:00 (3 years ago) Permalink

just like a wife ... hmmm.

― tylerw, Thursday, 12 November 2009 20:02 (3 years ago) Permalink

haven't heard this but hey: http://martiansboots.blogspot.com/2009/11/byrds-at-fillmore-west-jan-4-1970.html

― tylerw, Thursday, 12 November 2009 20:04 (3 years ago) Permalink

Is there like a career-spanning Clarence White comp? Would buy.

― tylerw, Thursday, 12 November 2009 20:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

Don't know of a comp but do you keep up with the blog Adios Lounge? He's been doing a pretty exhaustive recap of White's career, full of audio and video. He writes these posts off and on so search by category at his site, then start at the oldest one and go forward.

http://www.adioslounge.com/search/label/Clarence%20White

― scott pgwp (pgwp), Friday, 13 November 2009 00:21 (3 years ago) Permalink

!!!
Nice, exactly what I had in mind.

― tylerw, Friday, 13 November 2009 00:47 (3 years ago) Permalink

What's with the floating German ghost lady?

― Bloggers Might Ride (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 13 November 2009 02:45 (3 years ago) Permalink

if john york had stuck around for the last few records things would have been much improved. his voice blended really well with mcguinn and battin's kim fowley co-writes are mostly dud. also, you can tell from some of the live recordings from the york era that he gave them more of a hard edge. battin was serviceable but more of a mellow jam sort of guy

― velko, Friday, 13 November 2009 03:05 (3 years ago) Permalink

― velko, Friday, 13 November 2009 03:14 (3 years ago) Permalink

Fifth Dimension sounds like the best album ever tonight; even "Captain Soul"! "I Come And Stand At Every Door" is spectral doom: "I need no fruit, I need no rice / I need no sweets nor even bread". Almost every song has an undercurrent of immanent disaster; and they weren't wrong, just two years early.

― Yah Kid A (Euler), Saturday, 21 November 2009 20:20 (3 years ago) Permalink

Clarence White was just ridiculous.

― feed them to the (Linden Ave) lions (will), Saturday, 21 November 2009 21:40 (3 years ago) Permalink

listening to Untitled for the first time ever...live half didn't do much for me (the "Eight Miles High" was kinda ridiculous) but the studio side is very nice, intricate folk rock; the guitar parts (bass included) are interesting, and the vocals are suitably restrained.

Also, having relistened to the entire Byrds oeuvre through Untitled so far in the last day or so, I'll point out the obvious: these guys covered Dylan a lot. There's an interview on one of the reissues, Notorious or Sweetheart maybe, where McGuinn says that they're kinda over covering Dylan, because they've found their own songwriting voice...but then Dr. Byrds has two Dylan songs (and a third if you count bonus tracks).

― Yah Kid A (Euler), Sunday, 22 November 2009 16:28 (3 years ago) Permalink

7 months pass...

i know it's one of their Official Classix and everything, but i think turn! turn! turn! (the song) is their best moment.

― by another name (amateurist), Friday, 2 July 2010 16:01 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's unfortunate that the song has been sort of ruined (for me) by 60s montages on TV.

― Trip Maker, Friday, 2 July 2010 16:05 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, it is definitely one of those songs that has passed into the realm of cliche. but if you can turn all that off, it is pretty gorgeous, isn't it?

― tylerw, Friday, 2 July 2010 16:06 (2 years ago) Permalink

It's a great song. I like it enough that seeing Papa M do an instrumental cover in concert was kind of thrilling tbh.
It was probably my first favorite Byrds song.

― Trip Maker, Friday, 2 July 2010 16:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

"Turn! Turn! Turn!" and "Mr. Tambourine Man" are two of the most overplayed songs ever that I don't switch off when they come on the radio. I could list 10 Byrds songs I love more, but neither one is dead for me yet.

― clemenza, Friday, 2 July 2010 16:17 (2 years ago) Permalink

listening to John Reilly and What's Happening?! today, hazy summer bliss

― Dr X O'Skeleton, Friday, 2 July 2010 17:25 (2 years ago) Permalink

4 months pass...

― (ㅅ) (am0n), Monday, 29 November 2010 17:43 (2 years ago) Permalink

― Trip Maker, Monday, 29 November 2010 17:47 (2 years ago) Permalink

that's the jam

― gospodin simmel, Monday, 29 November 2010 18:10 (2 years ago) Permalink

haha, those dancers in the "nowhere" clip are rad. almost like they're dancing to a completely different song.

― tylerw, Monday, 29 November 2010 19:51 (2 years ago) Permalink

i've always been a little confused by the byrds' status in the late 60s -- were they seen as kinda passe at that point? i guess they just don't show up on a lot of those big festival movies.

― tylerw, Monday, 29 November 2010 19:53 (2 years ago) Permalink

Crosby seemed to think so.

― Trip Maker, Monday, 29 November 2010 19:58 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, i guess at that point, the byrds might've been "that band David Crosby used to be in." s'pose the fact that mcguinn was the only original member left made a difference too, no matter how awesome the clarence white-era band was.

― tylerw, Monday, 29 November 2010 20:00 (2 years ago) Permalink

What's weird to me is how quick the transition was. They always seemed like such distinct entities to me; the original lineup, the sweetheart aberration, the revamped rockers.
But all three of those things existed in 1968. Fucked up year, to say the least.

― Trip Maker, Monday, 29 November 2010 20:14 (2 years ago) Permalink

yeah, no kidding! sort of amazing there was a byrds at the end of all of it. seems like the easiest thing to do would be for mcguinn to start a solo career, but the namebrand thing must've been too much to drop.

― tylerw, Monday, 29 November 2010 20:21 (2 years ago) Permalink

2 weeks pass...

"(Untitled)" is a really good album, especially with the unreleased tracks on the last CD reissue. It's kind of a shame that it didn't really give them the fresh start they were hoping. They definitely had a cool sound, much more muscular on some of the rockers and twangy when needed with Clarence White on guitar and good drummer with Gene Parsons. Really in some ways it was way more of a 'band' than the original group, which used a bunch of ringers on the earlier studio stuff. I suppose the fact that McGuinn was the only one left kind of made them seem lame to some. If they would have had a single that would have really landed, it might have been really different, but that is kind of the case of the 2nd half of the Byrds career. There was a lot of music happening in 68-70 to say the least, so I could see how a band, even one with a rep like the Byrds could get lost.

"seems like the easiest thing to do would be for mcguinn to start a solo career"

From what I get reading into all of this, the Byrds were pretty much broke so they were playing live a bunch to kill off some debt. That's the thing I got from an article about Clarence White. It might have been a situation like when Led Zep first toured as the Yardbirds at the beginning...I don't know.

― earlnash, Tuesday, 14 December 2010 23:22 (2 years ago) Permalink

1 year passes...

1200 pages apparently! good lord.

― tylerw, Wednesday, 22 February 2012 18:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

dude

― Trip Maker, Wednesday, 22 February 2012 18:14 (1 year ago) Permalink

lol at volume 1 !
guess the second volume is supposed to be about the members' post byrds careers ...

― tylerw, Wednesday, 22 February 2012 18:16 (1 year ago) Permalink

I love that Michael can't keep a straight face in that photo.
Who are they kidding? Nice branch, Crosby!

― Trip Maker, Wednesday, 22 February 2012 18:19 (1 year ago) Permalink

i'm sure cros was like "this branch ... means something, man!"

― tylerw, Wednesday, 22 February 2012 18:21 (1 year ago) Permalink

So this is "Timeless Flight" expanded again?

― fit and working again, Wednesday, 22 February 2012 20:09 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah i think so. you'd think rogan would be so sick of the byrds by now.

― tylerw, Wednesday, 22 February 2012 20:11 (1 year ago) Permalink

i'm sure cros was like "this branch ... means something, man!"

He believed it played a part in the Kennedy assassination, iirc.

― Let A Man Come In And Do The Cop Porn (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Wednesday, 22 February 2012 20:23 (1 year ago) Permalink

haha.
i actually haven't read timeless flight -- it's good?

― tylerw, Wednesday, 22 February 2012 21:53 (1 year ago) Permalink

Timeless Flight is very good.

― fit and working again, Wednesday, 22 February 2012 22:25 (1 year ago) Permalink

Tempted to buy this, despite having bought 2 previous versions of "Timeless Flight". One of my all time favourite music books.

― Wandering Boy Poet, Thursday, 23 February 2012 13:44 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah looking forward to reading it. guess it hasn't been published in the US yet? or something?
http://www.amazon.com/Byrds-Requiem-Timeless-Johnny-Rogan/dp/0952954087/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1318659492&sr=8-2

― tylerw, Thursday, 23 February 2012 21:31 (1 year ago) Permalink

I just went through that. Yeah if you look at amazon.co.uk you will see it.

― Can You Please POLL Out Your Window? (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 23 February 2012 22:02 (1 year ago) Permalink

This guy had a deeeep trove, much of it West Coast buckskin, much of it Byrds and related--all crashed with Mega Mama, but he's re-posting, with Chris Hillman and Friends at the top of this page, Untitled-era live Byrds at the bottom, Flying Burritos etc in between, and might not be long til he restores Byrds x FBB
http://bbchron.blogspot.com/

― dow, Thursday, 23 February 2012 22:28 (1 year ago) Permalink

yeah i grabbed that fbb/byrds gig before it went down -- very fun stuff!

― tylerw, Thursday, 23 February 2012 22:35 (1 year ago) Permalink

5 months pass...

― buzza, Monday, 30 July 2012 07:47 (9 months ago) Permalink

Just reminded my first copy of Timeless flight was a thin paperback back in the 80s. then got the one from like 10 years ago & been wondering how necessary an update was on that.
Got the John Einarson Gene Clark book to read sometime in near future too.

― Stevolende, Monday, 30 July 2012 10:46 (9 months ago) Permalink

7 months pass...

did anyone read that latest version of rogan's bio?

― fit and working again, Thursday, 21 March 2013 02:08 (2 months ago) Permalink

― tylerw, Wednesday, 3 April 2013 17:25 (1 month ago) Permalink

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