If we're going to be all sandy vagina about respecting other cultures when visiting other countries, I don't think it's at all inconsistent to be all sandy vagina when someone comes to our country and does something we would find insulting.
― "So messy!" (HI DERE), Thursday, 10 September 2009 21:11 (fourteen years ago) link
Facebook group defending Buju Banton:http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=158249667941
― Pete Scholtes, Friday, 11 September 2009 14:48 (fourteen years ago) link
tolerance breeds tolerance, understanding breeds understanding
yeah, if we tolerate homophobes they will tolerate the gays. stands to reason.
― history mayne, Friday, 11 September 2009 14:53 (fourteen years ago) link
The Buju dc area show is still on for Sunday (it's happening out in a Maryland club that white people rarely go to).
― curmudgeon, Friday, 11 September 2009 14:54 (fourteen years ago) link
the implication that being poor and marginalized breeds homophobia is straight garbage - jamaica got a particular problem here and whites noting it is not omg foolish cultural imperialism
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 September 2009 15:06 (fourteen years ago) link
^^true - though too much of the anti-dancehall lobbying is coming from a place of near-total ignorance and hysteria.
― lex pretend, Friday, 11 September 2009 15:11 (fourteen years ago) link
it's not "anti-dancehall" i'm pretty sure but nice try there.
― history mayne, Friday, 11 September 2009 15:24 (fourteen years ago) link
I like this too:
This thread should have pretty much been locked after this.
Good way to open up a dialogue.
― Kevin John Bozelka, Friday, 11 September 2009 15:36 (fourteen years ago) link
That song "Boom Bye Bye" was written nearly twenty years ago, when Buju was a 15-year-old boy.
lol srsly how many times are they gonna pull this line out
― am0n, Friday, 11 September 2009 15:55 (fourteen years ago) link
"he was only 15! hes got no choice but to sing it live every night!"
― am0n, Friday, 11 September 2009 15:58 (fourteen years ago) link
Again, I'm not a huge fan of dancehall, and I think homophobia is wrong, but talking down to people you disagree with from a position of moral superiority without trying to understand the root causes of the offending behaviour isn't a "dialogue". It's a lecture, and they don't work. As mentioned above Jamaica does have a particular problem, or a particularly bad case of a widespread problem. Jamaica has also got a very serious problem with violent crime, but I'm not under the illusion that wagging my finger at the gunmen from my relatively privileged position because they offend my middle-class North American values will make a lick of difference. I think the point Stelfox was trying to make, and one that I agree with is that it might be more productive to ask "why", instead of just yelling "stop".
And as for this:
"yeah, if we tolerate homophobes they will tolerate the gays. stands to reason"
I can only hope that it was an intentional attempt at completely missing the point.
― King of Snake (j-rock), Friday, 11 September 2009 15:59 (fourteen years ago) link
Erm, I think you'll find a great deal of them did. (eg Native Americans)― Old Fart!!!, Monday, June 17, 2002 8:00 PM (7 years ago)
― Old Fart!!!, Monday, June 17, 2002 8:00 PM (7 years ago)
― Old Fart!!!
― am0n, Friday, 11 September 2009 16:01 (fourteen years ago) link
without trying to understand the root causes of the offending behaviour
wtf, it's machismo + monotheism, just like "white" homophobia. this idea that it's rooted in poverty is just fucked.
― goole, Friday, 11 September 2009 16:05 (fourteen years ago) link
talking down to people you disagree with from a position of moral superiority without trying to understand the root causes of the offending behaviour
but the gay activist protesters and the rasta/christian fundie singers are both acting in a "position of moral superiority" and depending on what country you're in, one group happens to trump the other
― am0n, Friday, 11 September 2009 16:13 (fourteen years ago) link
And how effective is that in adjusting attitudes or changing patterns of behaviour?
― King of Snake (j-rock), Friday, 11 September 2009 16:15 (fourteen years ago) link
"wtf, it's machismo + monotheism, just like "white" homophobia. this idea that it's rooted in poverty is just fucked".
So there's no chance that a non-religious Jamaican female could be homophobic?
― King of Snake (j-rock), Friday, 11 September 2009 16:17 (fourteen years ago) link
what are the chances that a non-religious white woman from anywhere could be homophobic?
― goole, Friday, 11 September 2009 16:18 (fourteen years ago) link
you can adjust for her income, but i'm looking for an exact number here.
― goole, Friday, 11 September 2009 16:19 (fourteen years ago) link
Are we sort of arguing along the same lines of "it's good there is murder because it tells us something is wrong with the system"?
― boring movies are the most boring (Eric H.), Friday, 11 September 2009 16:20 (fourteen years ago) link
wtf, it's machismo + monotheism, just like "white" homophobia
If there's such a thing as an 'average' white homophobe - certainly in the UK - I wouldn't necessarily expect them to trot out Leviticus to justify their position
― fingerNAGLs (DJ Mencap), Friday, 11 September 2009 16:21 (fourteen years ago) link
In any case, my ears are way more offended by dancehall than my conscience, so I don't even know what I'm doing on this thread.
― boring movies are the most boring (Eric H.), Friday, 11 September 2009 16:21 (fourteen years ago) link
calling someone out on some fucked up shit theyre doing has never worked ever while the record of questioning underlying motivation of aggressors is a well established tactic for change - one only has to look as far the famous "why do you think im not a man" signs worn by civil rights protesters in mid century america or gandhis famous "what is the fundamental cause of you occupying my country" protest in india to see its effectiveness
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 September 2009 16:27 (fourteen years ago) link
in what universe are either of your examples not evidence of ppl calling someone out on their fucked up shit
― "So messy!" (HI DERE), Friday, 11 September 2009 16:30 (fourteen years ago) link
you can adjust for her income, but i'm looking for an exact number here
Keep looking for that exact number. You know how dumb this is right? You know what? Keep canceling the odd dancehall concert and keep up your moral outrage. I'm sure that will solve the problem of homophobia in not only Jamaican music, but society-at-large.
― King of Snake (j-rock), Friday, 11 September 2009 16:30 (fourteen years ago) link
uh dan
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 September 2009 16:31 (fourteen years ago) link
Y'know, wishing that practitioners of a kind of music you generally like would stop it with the songs about killing you, your friends and family is not really colonial white man lecturing from on high, so if we could move on from that notion, plz?
― ENERGY FOOD (en i see kay), Friday, 11 September 2009 16:32 (fourteen years ago) link
― King of Snake (j-rock), Friday, September 11, 2009 12:15 PM
i'm only pointing out that the protesters aren't the only ones with their fingers in their ears going "lalalala". i don't think anyone intends to change the laws of jamaica by telling a singer to stfu when he rolls thru a town. they simply want the singer to stfu.
― am0n, Friday, 11 September 2009 16:34 (fourteen years ago) link
People should always be called out on hateful garbage like this, but simply canceling shows and lecturing aren't doing anything constructive to change attitudes.
― King of Snake (j-rock), Friday, 11 September 2009 16:34 (fourteen years ago) link
I don't think the primary concern is changing attitudes in Jamaica; I think the primary concern is the people operating a venue saying "we do not people to think we condone this attitude".
― "So messy!" (HI DERE), Friday, 11 September 2009 16:35 (fourteen years ago) link
we need more seminars, like the juggalos
― am0n, Friday, 11 September 2009 16:39 (fourteen years ago) link
Maybe the civil rights organization behind the planned boycotts of those venues could try to engage Mr. Banton a little more directly?
― kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, 11 September 2009 16:40 (fourteen years ago) link
We should just send them both a link to this thread.
hugs not thugs
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 September 2009 16:40 (fourteen years ago) link
i ain't gonna play sun city
― velko, Friday, 11 September 2009 16:40 (fourteen years ago) link
^^^ truthbomb
― a full circle lol (J0hn D.), Friday, 11 September 2009 16:41 (fourteen years ago) link
what happened to my "want"
oh well, the gist should be clear
― "So messy!" (HI DERE), Friday, 11 September 2009 16:42 (fourteen years ago) link
you never it
― a full circle lol (J0hn D.), Friday, 11 September 2009 16:44 (fourteen years ago) link
if buju banton would record a song abt macintosh computers and graduate degrees it would mollify me somewhat
― ice cr?m, Friday, 11 September 2009 16:44 (fourteen years ago) link
― kingkongvsgodzilla, Friday, September 11, 2009 12:40 PM
not everything can be solved by having two monsters battle, kingkongvsgodzilla
― am0n, Friday, 11 September 2009 16:45 (fourteen years ago) link
I want hugs from thugs.
― boring movies are the most boring (Eric H.), Friday, 11 September 2009 16:45 (fourteen years ago) link
British diplomat found strangled in Jamaican home in suspected gay-hate murder (11/09/2009)
A note was left on his blood-soaked body branding him a "batty man" - local slang for homosexual. A cord and piece of clothing were still around his neck.
― hypermediocrity (Derelict), Monday, 14 September 2009 17:01 (fourteen years ago) link
No word on Banton's alibi.
― Giorgio Marauder (I eat cannibals), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 00:22 (fourteen years ago) link
We know he wasn't at First Ave.
― boring movies are the most boring (Eric H.), Tuesday, 15 September 2009 00:28 (fourteen years ago) link
brooklyn seems to dig capleton's lyrical content and between-song banter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vylzh_-b1SU
― am0n, Wednesday, 16 September 2009 15:10 (fourteen years ago) link
seriously wtf.
― amateurist, Wednesday, 16 September 2009 21:26 (fourteen years ago) link
http://www.towleroad.com/2009/10/murder-music-singer-buju-banton-has-first-meeting-with-gay-advocates.html
― cough syrup in coke cans (Eric H.), Wednesday, 14 October 2009 00:29 (fourteen years ago) link
real thoughtful comments on that article.
― 2009 Nominee, Best African (Whitey on the Moon), Wednesday, 14 October 2009 02:28 (fourteen years ago) link
did he MURDER DEM?
― moonship journey to baja, Wednesday, 14 October 2009 02:31 (fourteen years ago) link
It was before the dawn of time, but oO_Oo at stelfox and maybe more so at the space cleared for him. WTF, ol' ILX?
― a bleak, sometimes frightening portrait of ceiling cat (contenderizer), Wednesday, 14 October 2009 03:15 (fourteen years ago) link
Okay, maybe I'm reading way too much into this, but...look at Buju Banton's hands in the photograph. He's making a sign over his crotch that some people use to indicate a vagina. And I invite you to try to sit that way yourself...it does not feel like a very natural position to me. I'm guessing Banton is making the sign to mock the folks in the photograph with him.
Posted by: peterparker | Oct 13, 2009 12:55:15 PM
http://api.ning.com/files/AlF29i7dC3Lhgz6dtRJOtF-zI6-gsTxWDb550OQ2bq*G5yWUR*G9rj0LYG5BLdi5Zc8RA9mnIWVDDRHCbNYXsAf-Tz79y37h/Haile_Selassie_G_0485.jpg
― am0n, Wednesday, 14 October 2009 03:36 (fourteen years ago) link