The Stooges vs. Black Sabbath

"Supernaut" vs. "1970"

Supernaut in a blowout on par with the latest Kimbo Slice match.

Nice post Shakey

one could argue that as much as zeppelin + sabbath are the inventors of metal, vu and stooges are the inventors of punk

I don't think's punk's lineage is all that er, linear. Punk owes as much to countless Nuggets-style 60s garage bands as anything else (see "Louie Louie") - I think VU's role is often overstated, primarily by those who would like to re-write punk's origins as being exclusive to New York (a la "Please Kill Me"). Whereas with metal you really can narrow it down in a much more direct way - there's the first few guys who took standard rewrites of the blues into heavier territory (Hendrix, Blue Cheer, etc.) and then there are the guys who really wrote the rules for much of what would follow in the subsequent decades (ie, Zep and Sabbath). With punk, things are a lot messier.

Sabs have better songs, better riffs, sure, but the Stooges are like a direct channel into the primeval ooze from which songs and riffs spring. It's like beautiful volcanic mountains versus molten lava.

Still haven't voted. It is like defusing a bomb.

i have voted, and it was for black sabbath.

i know i'll wake up in the middle of the night and think, gah, shoulda voted for the stooges.

but then i'll wake up again in the middle of tomorrow night and think, no, i did the right thing.

"supernaut" vs. "funhouse"

i will play master of reality while reading katherine anne porter's "noon wine" tonight

I did that with Vol. 4 and John Donne's Holy Sonnets earlier.

"Supernaut" vs. "1970"

Supernaut in a blowout on par with the latest Kimbo Slice match.

nah, last 2 minutes of "1970" >>> any two minutes of "supernaut"

not buying it.

Punk owes as much to countless Nuggets-style 60s garage bands as anything else (see "Louie Louie") - I think VU's role is often overstated, primarily by those who would like to re-write punk's origins as being exclusive to New York (a la "Please Kill Me").

I guess I view the VU/stooges influence on punk as narrowly as you view sabbath/zeppelin's on metal. sure, lots of diffuse & disparate things inspired punk bands, and the same could be said of metal.

but between vu and the stooges you've got about 90% of the moves punk bands would pull in situ. just like sabbath/zeppelin provided the template for metal bands that came after them.

I'd reposition this argument to take "influence" out of the equation and say that as earlier practioners of the form vu/stooges embodied the rulebook. you could erase every nuggets band in history and still derive the essentials of punk rock from vu and the stooges. and I mean punk in the broad sense; not just ramones/pistols but television, pere ubu, wire, etc. and I think I've talked about zeppelin being the collective unconscious of rock here before somewhere...

aw c'mon, who waits until the song's almost over for the saxophone to come in? and when it does it's a coltrane clarion call waking archangels to man chariots of the gods as the locked groove of a j.b.'s detroit death machine bears down on them! and I feel alright! I feel alright! I feel alright!

"TV Eye" vs. ??????

i really do not understand either of these bands

or rather their appeal.

but what do i know.

Tough choice, but Stooges. Know what puts them over for me? "LA Blues." Know why?

STEVE MCmotherfuckin'KAY.

Sabbath don't got nothin' nowhere close to him anywhere in their catalog.

"TV Eye" vs. ??????

This is the nubbins of it for me really - Sabbath's riffs seem overwrought in comparison.

And yeah, Sabbath basically invented a genre - whatever that's worth the same cannot be said of the Stooges.

Whoa.. horsey!!

Why does that matter anyway?

It's true, the Stooges aren't as boring as Sabbath

Sabbath are Frankenstein's monster lumbering dementedly through the wastes; the Stooges are all about that one high-voltage shock applied to the rotting cadaver.

this is a real toughie. love them both.

it's possibly easier to intellectually justify a stooges vote, but my gut instinct is to vote for sabbath. the thought of never hearing 'black sabbath', 'supernaut' or 'into the void' ever again is just too painful to countenance.

second, there's no way that the stooges could ever have made anything as weirdly wonderful as 'supertzar'.

on the other hand, 'TV eye' is pretty much unassailable on every level.

ultimately it comes down to feral vs. massive. massive for the win.

Well, as Black Sabbath are shitty heavy metal and The Stooges are just brilliant, I guess it'd have to be the latter. :-)

God Sabbath're dull

Blah blah lumber lumber we're from Birmingham don't blame us

Searing critical insight, guys.

I'd have thought the leader of the doom patrol might feel more of an affinity with sabbath.

The Stooges at least admit the possibility of crisis; Sabbath exist in an unchanging dimension of contant doom. BAH

Sabbath exist in an unchanging dimension of contant doom

you say it like that's a bad thing.

And it's not true. Have you heard Into The Void or Supernaut? Total "set the controls for the heart of the sun" stuff, not depressing at all.

Bit like Gordon Brown

NC the character was into 'crisis' as an agent of change/growth type thing. I think he'd prefer the Stooges, if he had time to do anything as silly as listen to popular music

OK, maybe Sabbath is a class thing - for some people.

How do you work that out?

"we're from Birmingham don't blame us"

What's that got to do with class though? That's more about Birmingham being perceived as a boring shithole.

Well, that's how I read it

Yeah it didn't have anything to do with class. Would've been the same if they'd been from Oxford or Liverpool.

But not Detroit?

Isn't Ann Arbor quite nice tho?

Yeah sure, but I think Sabbath come from England. Point is they made music that bores me, so I made fun of their boring roots. Stooges came from Ann Arbor anyway

xpost

"I'm American, btw"

Me? I'm not. To say the least. I do wonder if my loathing for Sabbath is all due to buying the first album and hating it, tho. Should I give like Vol 4 a go? Do they get more LIMBER?

OK, I'm being unduly sensitive about being grim and Northern.

Both bands came out of pretty tough backgrounds though, which is another thing they have in common.

Sorry bad zing above! Vol 4 is a great record, yes. Masters Of Reality is also arguably more groovy than their earlier records.

Although the "lumbering" tag is wrong IMHO- the rhythm section on (say) "The Wizard" SWINGS!

Dude, most of my fav bands're grim and northern! xpost ok I should give that one a go, cos man I like SO many bands that rip Sabbath off... still vote Stooges tho xxpost NO IT DOESN'T or maybe I was distracted by being annoyed that he was singing about a fucking wizard. It lifts a little, I suppose.

grim and Northern

birmingham? northern? pah :)

i'd say try Sabotage instead; it may not be the densest slab of Sab available, but it probably is the most versatile (and best).

xxxxp

Sabbath are Frankenstein's monster lumbering dementedly through the wastes; the Stooges are all about that one high-voltage shock applied to the rotting cadaver.

This is aces!